People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

marieholmfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Ff and fg want you all to believe the best Ireland can offer the coming generations is renting forever and retiring closer to 70 than 60.

They were the ones who found money for banks and nama but not for your pensions. Remember the pension reserve fund. The banks got that.

At this stage I think alot of people would prefer the country go bankrupt trying to give them housing and the ability to retire. Renting in retirement is a sure way to poverty and even homelessness. How many of today's 25-35 year olds will never have a pension fund and rent for ever under ff and fg? I'd vote for sf just to shake it up if I were in their shoes.

I don't mind the late retirement. People are in better health in their 80s now than in they were in their seventies thirty years ago.
The house thing is crazy.

Just build the council houses.


Also at the risk of being a racist we need a discussion on immigration. The poorest native citizens are disadvantaged by immigration;
I know a woman who cam here from Poland when she was 18 at worked as a KP , then a waitress, then office manager ,then a paralegal and is now an apprentice solicitor after paying for her own degree.
Is she likely or unlikely to be a productive citizen?

BUT when she was an office cleaner and a KP she was just cheap labour depressing working class wages.

I know a boy who came here from Lativa when he was 7 and learned English from reading Harry Potter in English and in Russian and is now a medical student.

I know a Polish handyman whose son got a scholarship to Clongowes!

ohnonotgmail

marieholmfan wrote: »

I don't mind the late retirement. People are in better health in their 80s now than in they were in their seventies thirty years ago.
The house thing is crazy.

Just build the council houses.


Also at the risk of being a racist we need a discussion on immigration. The poorest native citizens are disadvantaged by immigration;
I know a woman who cam here from Poland when she was 18 at worked as a KP , then a waitress, then office manager ,then a paralegal and is now an apprentice solicitor after paying for her own degree.
Is she likely or unlikely to be a productive citizen?

BUT when she was an office cleaner and a KP she was just cheap labour depressing working class wages.

how was she cheap labour depresssing working class wages then office cleaner and KP are pretty much always minimum wage jobs?

quokula

Granny15 wrote: »

You've dodged the question/statement. What are all you right wing types doing on an internet forum during working hours if you are so hard working?

You're trying to imply that anyone must be right wing, if they're sceptical of a party with a history of supporting organised crime, of completely neglecting their duties in Northern Ireland and the UK, of using nationalism as a tool to garner support and of generally complaining from the sidelines without ever offering solutions to any issues or doing anything positive in society.

They're a nationalist party and use many of the campaign techniques of the far right in much of Europe which I've seen first hand living abroad, but they make progressive sounding noises because they know that particular flavour of nationalism won't fly in this country - though the mask occasionally slips as seen with their councillor's recent racist and homophobic tirade, which is far closer to the values of the Sinn Fein supporters I know locally, than what they try to portray.

You can be left wing and vote for someone like Green or Labour. You don't have to be right wing to oppose Sinn Fein.

Mirafiori

FTA69 wrote: »

Jesus Christ the conflict in Ireland ended 23 years ago with a mutually-agreed peace treaty. Despite what the Independent news group will tell you, Republicans weren’t the ones who invented violence in Ireland; it occurred due to a set of political conditions brought about by a variety of actors.

The IRA etc are finished, SF are a run-of-the-mill social democratic party. It’s time people moved on.

People get to decide that for themselves.

Granny15

quokula wrote: »

You're trying to imply that anyone must be right wing, if they're sceptical of a party with a history of supporting organised crime, of completely neglecting their duties in Northern Ireland and the UK, of using nationalism as a tool to garner support and of generally complaining from the sidelines without ever offering solutions to any issues or doing anything positive in society.

They're a nationalist party and use many of the campaign techniques of the far right in much of Europe which I've seen first hand living abroad, but they make progressive sounding noises because they know that particular flavour of nationalism won't fly in this country - though the mask occasionally slips as seen with their councillor's recent racist and homophobic tirade, which is far closer to the values of the Sinn Fein supporters I know locally, than what they try to portray.

You can be left wing and vote for someone like Green or Labour. You don't have to be right wing to oppose Sinn Fein.

Regardless, there is an echo in here of right wing posters dumbing down the left as dishonest when it themselves who are the dishonest ones spreading bile and garbage about the left being lazy and delusional when the opposite is the case.

facehugger99

Granny15 wrote: »

Regardless, there is an echo in here of right wing posters dumbing down the left as dishonest when it themselves who are the dishonest ones spreading bile and garbage about the left being lazy and delusional when the opposite is the case.

There is no left v right division in Irish politics - that's all in your head I'm afraid.

The two main parties are slightly left of center, Labour and the Greens are slightly left of them and then you have ragtag of populist parties, including the like of SF, PBP and the AAA's selling any old snakeoil sh;ite to try and skive a few votes from the hard of thinking.

Add a few single-issue independents into the mix for the laugh.

paw patrol

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Don't believe EVERYTHING you hear on RTE.

I don't tbh.
I don't see why you are saying that what I said isn't true when it is.
They all sing from the same hymn sheet that is provided to them - you are buying the hive mind with a SF vote.
Who controls the hive? Mary Lou is only the public face of that control

FrancieBrady

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't tbh.
I don't see why you are saying that what I said isn't true when it is.
They all sing from the same hymn sheet that is provided to them - you are buying the hive mind with a SF vote.
Who controls the hive? Mary Lou is only the public face of that control

What party members don't 'sing from the same hymn sheet'?

Granny15

facehugger99 wrote: »

There is no left v right division in Irish politics - that's all in your head I'm afraid.

The two main parties are slightly left of center, Labour and the Greens are slightly left of them and then you have ragtag of populist parties, including the like of SF, PBP and the AAA's selling any old snakeoil sh;ite to try and skive a few votes from the hard of thinking.

Add a few single-issue independents into the mix for the laugh.

Is there a left right divide in the electorate? There are people from poor backgrounds and people from well off backgrounds. If such a divide exists demographically then it exists in Irish politics and it certainly exists on this message board. You're probably some delusional right winger who thinks/denies people from less well off backgrounds are getting screwed.

marieholmfan

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how was she cheap labour depresssing working class wages then office cleaner and KP are pretty much always minimum wage jobs?

If there'd been no immigration then shortage of labour would have driven up the wages for those jobs. Or I suppose people could have cleaned their own offices.

ohnonotgmail

marieholmfan wrote: »

If there'd been no immigration then shortage of labour would have driven up the wages for those jobs. Or I suppose people could have cleaned their own offices.

shortage of labour? are you having a laugh?

dundalkfc10

Eoin O’Duffy, co-founder of Fine Gael, sent troops to the Spanish Civil war to fight on the same side as Nazis and wanted to send troops to fight alongside the nazis against the Soviet Union but people won’t vote Sinn Féin because of their history?

marieholmfan

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

shortage of labour? are you having a laugh?

Just before mass immigration started a junke (a literal junkie) could get a job on a site.
If you could hire a Polish bricklayer who is normal as a labourer or a junkie which would you choose?

facehugger99

Granny15 wrote: »

Is there a left right divide in the electorate?

No, as a brief look at who we have chosen for Government since the foundation of the State would confirm.

Having FF and FG as our two largest Parties, enables the electorate to regularly turf one out of office without having to change from a slightly left of center Govt. It would seem the electorate favor this model.

Granny15 wrote: »

You're probably some delusional right winger who thinks/denies people from less well off backgrounds are getting screwed.

People from "less well off backgrounds" avail of the lion's share of free social services while paying almost nothing towards the contribution of same.

If anyone's "getting screwed" in this country, it's people earning over €50k, who are entitled to very little Govt. support but expected to pay for everything.

Hamsterchops

runswithascript wrote: »

So the Irish Times poll from yesterday tells a story different to the title of this thread. Strange Mary Lou is excluded to the debate tonight considering this. I assume that the noises SF is making on things like housing and free college fees is resonating with voters.

I've often wondered how these leader approval ratings work! It's not crystal clear to me.

So does this mean that 35% of the Irish electorate want Leo to remain as Taoseach, or does it mean that 35% of people like him as the FG leader, or does it mean that 35% of Fine Gael voters approve of him (as their leader) or what ?

freshpopcorn

I think OP when it comes around to the general election people often focus on the party more than the candidate in the area.(Within reason of course)
I live in X election area for example.
I know people and they hate X for FF but they vote for them because they believe FF are the best party to run the country. They also vote for the other FF candidate.
Similarly SF have a candidate called Y and he's seen as a bit of a fool. However they vote for him because they think the SF party are the correct party to run the country.
Similarly you might like a candidate but you don't believe there politics are correct for the running of this country. You might give them a shot in the local elections tough.




I used X and Y so not to mention names.

cooperguy

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think OP when it comes around to the general election people often focus on the party more than the candidate in the area.(Within reason of course)
I live in X election area for example.
I know people and they hate X for FF but they vote for them because they believe FF are the best party to run the country. They also vote for the other FF candidate.
Similarly SF have a candidate called Y and he's seen as a bit of a fool. However they vote for him because they think the SF party are the correct party to run the country.
Similarly you might like a candidate but you don't believe there politics are correct for the running of this country. You might give them a shot in the local elections tough.




I used X and Y so not to mention names.

Exactly this. For the most part it makes sense to ignore personalities. Your vote is for a party, you just have to put a number beside a name on the ballot paper.

seamus

Whelo79 wrote: »

I didn't know boards was populated with so many economists and financial accountants who can expertly confirm that SF's policies are not financially viable and would bankrupt the state in a matter of months!

Considering that Sinn Féin's Finance spokesperson has no financial qualifications, you'll have to agree that endorsing or criticising their finance proposals doesn't require a relevant qualification.

What Sinn Fein have going for their finance proposals is that they present in a simplistic, easy-to-consume manner.

Consequently this makes it easy to see why they won't work.

jimgoose

seamus wrote: »

Considering that Sinn Féin's Finance spokesperson has no financial qualifications...

He has a certificate in civil engineering from DIT.

road_high

jimgoose wrote: »

He has a certificate in civil engineering from DIT.

Which he lied/window dressed about. Pretended he was a “Civil Engineer” whereas in reality he has the technician certification. His professional and academic career are almost as mediocre as his political performance then

jimgoose

road_high wrote: »

Which he lied/window dressed about. Pretended he was a “Civil Engineer” whereas in reality he has the technician certification. His professional and academic career are almost as mediocre as his political performance then

To be sure. A modest man, with much to be modest about.

road_high

jimgoose wrote: »

To be sure. A modest man, with much to be modest about.

The ingrained chip on his shoulder spews out every time he speaks/shouts.

FrancieBrady

Just for some balance.

https://www.thejournal.ie/fiscal-space-2586172-Feb2016/

facehugger99

I wonder how long it'll take Board's resident 'floating voter' to be the lead contributor in another SF thread?

Whelo79

seamus wrote: »

Considering that Sinn Féin's Finance spokesperson has no financial qualifications, you'll have to agree that endorsing or criticising their finance proposals doesn't require a relevant qualification.

What Sinn Fein have going for their finance proposals is that they present in a simplistic, easy-to-consume manner.

Consequently this makes it easy to see why they won't work.

Do you think he sits down on his own and comes up with all the ideas and figures? Do you think that's what every finance minister in the history of the state does?

Why do you think every government spends millions on well paid advisors? Leo pays millions for spin doctors to make up for his lack of personality and cover up his complete lack of empathy for anyone stuck on a trolley or sleeping on the street.

Whelo79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just for some balance.

https://www.thejournal.ie/fiscal-space-2586172-Feb2016/

Ah sure it was only an error of €2bn, their (all 3 parties FF/FG/Lab) figures were only wrong by aprx 30%. No big deal, nothing to see, move along

quokula

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Just for some balance.

https://www.thejournal.ie/fiscal-space-2586172-Feb2016/

I got quite confused reading that article, until I realised it was several years old and not related to this election.

Interestingly, if you compare those predictions to what has actually happened, government spending has in fact gone up by the 12 billion predicted by Labour and FG in that article, from 68 to 80 billion.

road_high

quokula wrote: »

I got quite confused reading that article, until I realised it was several years old and not related to this election.

Interestingly, if you compare those predictions to what has actually happened, government spending has in fact gone up by the 12 billion predicted by Labour and FG in that article, from 68 to 80 billion.

The elephant in the room of course being that under SF We’d have a Syriza style implosion of the economy and talk of “fiscal space” would move to IMF bailouts once again

marieholmfan

road_high wrote: »

The elephant in the room of course being that under SF We’d have a Syriza style implosion of the economy and talk of “fiscal space” would move to IMF bailouts once again

Like the implosion Jack Lynch gave us when he got rid of rates?

MACHEAD

FTA69 wrote: »

Jesus Christ the conflict in Ireland ended 23 years ago with a mutually-agreed peace treaty. Despite what the Independent news group will tell you, Republicans weren’t the ones who invented violence in Ireland; it occurred due to a set of political conditions brought about by a variety of actors.

The IRA etc are finished, SF are a run-of-the-mill social democratic party. It’s time people moved on.

Agreed. But the hard reality is that, despite the all the recent moves towards modernisation and liberalisation in Ireland (particularly the Republic), There remains a very conservative cohort in the electorate who are very comfy in the old established order. New or radical thinking frightens the bejaysus out of them.

In time a majority will emerge that can see that the 'old established order' serves the few and not the many, until that day we persevere and keep voting for those who have come to rattle cages, rock boats, and drag the fuddy duddy's into a new way of seeing the world.