People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

frillyleaf

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's this type of thinking that had Michael Lowry topping the poll on Tipperary every election despite the tribunal findings.

SF have a good on the ground reputation but I personally feel that the job of a TD should be primarily focused on the national level.

Ignoring a mining pensions crisis because people are living longer just for a populist view to keep the age at 65 is simply not prudent as an example.

I do understand this is not realistic but it really is one rule for TD’s and another for ordinary Joe soap. Some of the pensions former TD’s are huge and are given at a much earlier age not to mention other perks. They can’t possibly see the world through other people’s views with that level of comfort and wealth.

I wonder will any of the parties suggest that TD’s salaries and pensions will be capped. I’m surprised this hasn’t happened yet.

I’m surprised SF haven’t suggested reform in this!

Hamsterchops

is_that_so wrote: »

Eh, the people polled.

Sorry, but does that mean that when asked about Leo's leadership, 35% of the public voted for him to remain Taoiseach, and that 34% of people voted for Mary Lou to become Taoiseach?


...because if so, Mary Lou is right there!

jimmycrackcorm

frillyleaf wrote: »

I do understand this is not realistic but it really is one rule for TD’s and another for ordinary Joe soap. Some of the pensions former TD’s are huge and are given at a much earlier age not to mention other perks. They can’t possibly see the world through other people’s views with that level of comfort and wealth.

I wonder will any of the parties suggest that TD’s salaries and pensions will be capped. I’m surprised this hasn’t happened yet.

I’m surprised SF haven’t suggested reform in this!

Would you be happy if the employment law was changed so that you can be turfed out of your job after 5 years without any recourse?

is_that_so

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Sorry, but does that mean that when asked about Leo's leadership, 35% of the public voted for him to remain Taoiseach, and that 34% of people voted for Mary Lou to become Taoiseach?


...because if so, Mary Lou is right there!

Have read of it here.
https://www.irishtimes.com/election2020/ipsos-mrbi-poll-fianna-f%C3%A1il-edges-ahead-of-fg-as-sf-surges-1.4145946

James Brown

Knowall1 wrote: »

Ask your SF canvassers was Gerry Adams in the IRA. They will tell you a lie. And if they can't tell the truth on that simple thing then why believe it on anything else

If I was in the IRA I wouldn't tell you.
It's a kin to handing yourself into the police for a crime you don't think should be a crime.

I wasn't by the way *wink*.

I don't even consider the IRA when giving SF a nod. I don't think we'll all be drafted into it if they gain any power. Also the GFA put that all to bed SF wise.

frillyleaf

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Would you be happy if the employment law was changed so that you can be turfed out of your job after 5 years without any recourse?

With some of the lump sums and pensions TD’s receive I would be quite happy for this to happen and look for work elsewhere!

partyguinness

Conversely there are plenty of vote for FF or FG without knowing anything about the candidate.

"Oh sure we always vote FF/FG"- they couldn't tell you why.

This slavish adherence to a civil war menatality

is_that_so

partyguinness wrote: »

Conversely there are plenty of vote for FF or FG without knowing anything about the candidate.

"Oh sure we always vote FF/FG"- they couldn't tell you why.

This slavish adherence to a civil war menatality

No , just voters locked into to a party. Same as every party. Fewer now I reckon as many of us have become a lot more floating. Hence the proliferation of auction politics to woo voters.

partyguinness

is_that_so wrote: »

No , just voters locked into to a party. Same as every party. Fewer now I reckon as many of us have become a lot more floating. Hence the proliferation of auction politics to woo voters.

Well I find that the reason they are locked into a particular party derives from their civil war era grand or great grand parents and it has just been inherited.

is_that_so

partyguinness wrote: »

Well I find that the reason they are locked into a particular party derives from their civil war era grand or great grand parents and it has just been inherited.

Like some diehard SF and Labour voters I know!

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

Like some diehard SF and Labour voters I know!

Nobody said it was exclusive, but I know FG and FF families because that's how they refer to themselves.
It's not healthy for the public to vote along party lines IMO.

is_that_so

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Nobody said it was exclusive, but I know FG and FF families because that's how they refer to themselves.
It's not healthy for the public to vote along party lines IMO.

It's not, but now not as prevalent as it used to be.

partyguinness

is_that_so wrote: »

Like some diehard SF and Labour voters I know!

That's impressive considering SF did not remove its policy of abstention from Dail Eireann until 1986.

is_that_so

partyguinness wrote: »

That's impressive considering SF did not remove its policy of abstention from Dail Eireann until 1986.

Which is nearly 40 years, a lot of lifetime for people living now!

Gael23

This goes for every party. There’s a guy I went to school with running for FF. I will never vote for Fianna Fáil ever for any reason

James Brown

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not, but now not as prevalent as it used to be.

I'm not that old.
Hopefully not.

blanch152

quokula wrote: »

I got quite confused reading that article, until I realised it was several years old and not related to this election.

Interestingly, if you compare those predictions to what has actually happened, government spending has in fact gone up by the 12 billion predicted by Labour and FG in that article, from 68 to 80 billion.

Has it?

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/d8796b-r/

Government expenditure in 2019 was €67.4bn.

blanch152

MACHEAD wrote: »

Legal entitlement in itself doesn't mean that every claimant will get through the red tape and bureaucracy surrounding most services. That is what public representatives do to aid and support their constituents. It matters not one jot what party (if any) they are a member of, if they do their job effectively, efficiently and without fear or favour, then they will be rejected or re-elected on the merit of that.

I am happy to vote for councillors in local elections who have a good record on issues like that. However, when voting for general elections, we are voting for legislators and Ministers, that is a completely different skillset. Sinn Fein, and Fianna Fail before them, together with independents like the Healy-Raes build their reputation on getting things for constituents. That is the absolutely last thing I want TDs to do, so another reason not to vote for either of them.

Amirani

debok wrote: »

There in favour of Europe

They've campaigned against every single EU treaty. They campaigned against Ireland joining the EU in the first place and campaigned for withdrawal in 1975.

They're not pro-Europe, they have no track record of it. They may be paying some lip service to it the past year or 2, but that's just to sound different to the Brits.

frillyleaf

blanch152 wrote: »

I am happy to vote for councillors in local elections who have a good record on issues like that. However, when voting for general elections, we are voting for legislators and Ministers, that is a completely different skillset. Sinn Fein, and Fianna Fail before them, together with independents like the Healy-Raes build their reputation on getting things for constituents. That is the absolutely last thing I want TDs to do, so another reason not to vote for either of them.

Very good point. I’ve read this is why a lot of people in my local area will be voting for a TD, they are voting for him as “ he is the only one that gets things done” as opposed to the policies of the party.

quokula

blanch152 wrote: »

Has it?

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/d8796b-r/

Government expenditure in 2019 was €67.4bn.

I was taking figures from whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie - having looked in more detail the €80bn includes non-voted costs (debt servicing, EU contributions) that aren't in the linked figure which explains the discrepancy.

However, my 2016 figure also came from there and also included that figure. The 2016 budget shows expenditure of €54bn, so the difference remains.

FrancieBrady

Amirani wrote: »

They've campaigned against every single EU treaty. They campaigned against Ireland joining the EU in the first place and campaigned for withdrawal in 1975.

They're not pro-Europe, they have no track record of it. They may be paying some lip service to it the past year or 2, but that's just to sound different to the Brits.

In fairness, SF had evolved into a party that supported EU membership long before Brexit was even a twinkle in Nigel's eye.

JP Liz V1

Deleted User wrote: »

If Sinn Fein cleaned up their act and removed the bloody bank robbing thugs, they would already have had a Taoiseach

Don't all parties have these thugs

James Brown

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Don't all parties have these thugs

They do but as with SF they are usually drummed out.

JohnnyFlash

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They do but as with SF they are usually drummed out.

Ya, that’s why Ferris was thrown out for heading down to Roscommon in a Hiace to pick up the murderers of a police officer of the State. The illiterate scumbag.

Get off the stage, Matt.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Ya, that’s why Ferris was thrown out for heading down to Roscommon in a Hiace to pick up the murderers of a police officer of the State. The illiterate scumbag.

Get off the stage, Matt.

The other parties don't have thugs? Does Conlon ring a bell? Feighan?
I think you're responding to something else.

JohnnyFlash

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The other parties don't have thugs? Does Conlon ring a bell? Feighan?
I think you're responding to something else.

They all pale into insignificance into having a TD who hopped into a clapped out van and drove to a prison to pick up the men who shot a Garda dead. That’s thuggery, Matt. That’s the sort of thing that people don’t forget.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They all pale into insignificance into having a TD who hopped into a clapped out van and drove to a prison to pick up the men who shot a Garda dead. That’s thuggery, Matt. That’s the sort of thing that people don’t forget.

TBF, some balls. Could have easily got a lackey to do it. He obviously wanted to be seen.
You never addressed the actual conversation, but hey...

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They do but as with SF they are usually drummed out.

Ferris, Ellis, Houlihan, Adams, last I checked, they were all still members. Think Slab has left though.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Ferris, Ellis, Houlihan, Adams, last I checked, they were all still members. Think Slab has left though.

They're all in SF, (issue was other parties having thugs) and despite the tax avoidance, slab isn't in FG AFAIK, but I can see the reason for the confusion.