GE2020 *Mod Note in First Post*

opinionated3

Thank God that's all over. Well, sinn Fein have promised a lot. If they form a government it will certainly be time to put up or shut up. I'm not confident in them though. I'm actually kinda nervous of the future now.......

Marty Xavier

I think we all are, SF would be considered anti business and anti FDI. Tax tax tax seems to be their motto.

opinionated3

Marty Xavier wrote: »

I think we all are, SF would be considered anti business and anti FDI. Tax tax tax seems to be their motto.

That's what I'm nervous about. I work for a multinational that would have no qualms about heading off to Asia's cheaper labour market if their corporation tax was raised here. Tbh I really don't believe too many voter's realised exactly what sinn fein are really all about. It was a protest vote against the arrogance of the likes of Leo et al. Anyway it is what it is. Dangerous times ahead

Marty Xavier

Ok so let's have the skinny on our new TDs.
Cathal Crowe and Violet Ann Wynne. What is their political backround and how have they done in the council? Anything to suggest that Wynne especially has political nous or was it a reactionary vote...anyone know anything about her abilities?

Edit found this, not very encouraging
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-td-made-attack-on-the-hpv-vaccine-38952559.html

mitresize5

Cathal Crowe has been a long time working towards this point. Unbelievably active at a local level in SE Clare.

Every pothole, power line down or flood your guaranteed to get a text from him shortly afterwards notifying you of it and then one shortly afterwards claiming credit for its rectifying :-)

In fairness to him he's a 'doer' for the most part and in all probability deserves his election. Hopefully now he'll move on from fixing potholes and make a difference on the national stage.

I have family back in West Clare and most of them never heard of VAW to mind being active in the community there. 350+ votes in the locals says a lot

oppiuy

Marty Xavier wrote: »

Ok so let's have the skinny on our new TDs.
Cathal Crowe and Violet Ann Wynne. What is their political backround and how have they done in the council? Anything to suggest that Wynne especially has political nous or was it a reactionary vote...anyone know anything about her abilities?

Edit found this, not very encouraging
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-td-made-attack-on-the-hpv-vaccine-38952559.html

Shes is also in arrears in rent with the council and has been removed from a number of house as a result. Wont last long

opinionated3

Cathal Crowe is extremely active in his locality, and even further afield. I personally know nothing about Wynne but I work with lads from back her direction and their opinion of her wouldn't inspire confidence. Definitely a populist vote in her case, they reckon she is more suited to people before profit rather then SF. . Already news in the media of her being anti hpv vaccine.

easypazz

Marty Xavier wrote: »

Ok so let's have the skinny on our new TDs.
Cathal Crowe and Violet Ann Wynne. What is their political backround and how have they done in the council? Anything to suggest that Wynne especially has political nous or was it a reactionary vote...anyone know anything about her abilities?

Edit found this, not very encouraging
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-td-made-attack-on-the-hpv-vaccine-38952559.html

Violet couldn't make the council, only got 300+ votes.

A lot of these shinner TD's will be the equivalent of musical "one hit wonders"

They will never be heard of again. Quite a few shinners either lost their council seats or couldn't get elected.

Shower of wasters that were in the right place at the right time.

Berty

I know a few people who did give their 2 or 3 vote to SF, regardless of the candidate, so on the recounts she definitely scored well from it. I voted for the candidates, not the party. The party itself has no vested interest in my county so I didn't personally vote to punish a party/government or to hope that SF will do what they say.

I believe SF won on a vote for change, this is true but I don't think it's sustainable as a government. The troubling thing is that if no government can come to an agreement and another vote is called for SF will run MORE candidates and WILL get a majority government. They, and FF, said this already.

I work 40+ hours a week and our company is part of a FDI, I pay a lot in Taxes already. I do not think SF has my best interests at their fore. I'm a cash cow to sitting governments, we've always been but somehow I think I'm a bigger cash cow to SF.

Clareman

Berty wrote: »

I know a few people who did give their 2 or 3 vote to SF.

In Clare 8,987 gave their first prefernce to the SF candidate, 2,916 gave a lower preference to her so I'd say we all know a lot of people who gave her their number 1.

Clare is a great county for a protest vote, yes we have had a lot of 2 FF and 2 FG but we've also a good recent history of Labour and Independents, in my life time there's been Harty, Breen and McNamara elected as independents as well as McNamara and Bhamjee for Labour.

Clare of course also has a great history of "poweful" candidates, we're probably the only county to have Taoiseach, President and Ceann Comhairle all represent us.

Cookiemunster

Berty wrote: »

I know a few people who did give their 2 or 3 vote to SF, regardless of the candidate, so on the recounts she definitely scored well from it. I voted for the candidates, not the party. The party itself has no vested interest in my county so I didn't personally vote to punish a party/government or to hope that SF will do what they say.

I believe SF won on a vote for change, this is true but I don't think it's sustainable as a government. The troubling thing is that if no government can come to an agreement and another vote is called for SF will run MORE candidates and WILL get a majority government. They, and FF, said this already.

I work 40+ hours a week and our company is part of a FDI, I pay a lot in Taxes already. I do not think SF has my best interests at their fore. I'm a cash cow to sitting governments, we've always been but somehow I think I'm a bigger cash cow to SF.

They can run as many candidates as they want. 24% of the vote won't get them anywhere near a majority. They could get to 50, but that still leaves them well short.

Berty

I guess I meant to say more candidates that the other parties to give them a majority in the formation of a government. They won't achieve nearly as much going in as the 2nd party in Government. 38/37 FF to SF currently so even 2 more seats buys them more power.

easypazz

Berty wrote: »

I guess I meant to say more candidates that the other parties to give them a majority in the formation of a government. They won't achieve nearly as much going in as the 2nd party in Government. 38/37 FF to SF currently so even 2 more seats buys them more power.

Nothing is guaranteed, IF their support holds up they will get 1 in most areas, none in a few and 2 in some.

Same applies to FF and FG.

Id say they will all end up in the low 40's

Clareman

There was 5 or 6 places where SF left a definite second seat after them BUT that was assuming a good transfer system in place, in my opinion a lot of the SF seats were a protest vote, Wynne for example, and will struggle to get a second term but they have their chance now to make a go of it. The easiest place to be is the opposition as you can make whatever promises you want, when you are in power you have to deliver on those promises.

Johnboy1951

Clareman wrote: »

There was 5 or 6 places where SF left a definite second seat after them BUT that was assuming a good transfer system in place, in my opinion a lot of the SF seats were a protest vote, Wynne for example, and will struggle to get a second term but they have their chance now to make a go of it. The easiest place to be is the opposition as you can make whatever promises you want, when you are in power you have to deliver on those promises.

I wish that were so.

ger664

Saturday vote helped SF younger generation see them in a different light. The Clare Champion rang the rent arrears on the thursday before polling on the front page yet she stll top the poll. If Dustin the Turkey had ran for SF he would have got elected.

Dont see any kind of stable government been formed unless FF/FG and like mind well greased indepedents come together (Lowry Kealy Raes)

opinionated3

ger664 wrote: »

Saturday vote helped SF younger generation see them in a different light. The Clare Champion rang the rent arrears on the thursday before polling on the front page yet she stll top the poll. If Dustin the Turkey had ran for SF he would have got elected.

Dont see any kind of stable government been formed unless FF/FG and like mind well greased indepedents come together (Lowry Kealy Raes)

Some young lads I work with voted sinn Fein not knowing any of their policies, didn't even realise who the candidate was (thought the candidate was male). This was a protest vote, make no mistake, and anyone who says otherwise is living in a Dreamworld

Johnboy1951

opinionated3 wrote: »

Some young lads I work with voted sinn Fein not knowing any of their policies, didn't even realise who the candidate was (thought the candidate was male). This was a protest vote, make no mistake, and anyone who says otherwise is living in a Dreamworld

Yes it was ....... and well deserved too.

Now we can only hope that those two parties actually do something the voters demand they do and sort out the main problems.

Clareman

I know its the Sun so not necessarily the best source of information but if part of is right Clare people should be ashamed of themselves for electing this individual

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/

Berty

Clareman wrote: »

I know its the Sun so not necessarily the best source of information but if part of is right Clare people should be ashamed of themselves for electing this individual

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5096652/sinn-fein-violet-anne-wynne-charity-rent-arrears/

If it is true then:

Her choice of not paying for housing arrears flies in the face of the party promise to help people achieve housing nationally when withholding arrears seriously affects the ability to provide housing.

Her choice to change her view of vaccines is curious. Did she educate herself further on them or was it a change of view to be in-line with party views to get on the ticket?

I didn't give her a vote but I wouldn't be ashamed if I did because I wouldn't have been aware on any accusations until now.

Clareman

Berty wrote: »

If it is true then:

Her choice of not paying for housing arrears flies in the face of the party promise to help people achieve housing nationally when withholding arrears seriously affects the ability to provide housing.

Her choice to change her view of vaccines is curious. Did she educate herself further on them or was it a change of view to be in-line with party views to get on the ticket?

I didn't give her a vote but I wouldn't be ashamed if I did because I wouldn't have been aware on any accusations until now.

They were in the Champion the Thursday before hand and they were public knowledge for the local elections but because she didn't have a hope no-one cared.

Personally I think it's a great example about how Irish people will just vote for a party regardless of who the individual is, people complaing about X being just a party person, or putting the party first. Then again I might be just jealous that I didn't go for the SF nomination myself, nice paycheck and pension.

Berty

I've only just started following the local media, this morning, for the reason of missing out on this news. I don't read the printed publications and frankly don't read the Sun.ie but for my sins I do read the dailymail (comments section are great, very angry people)

Johnboy1951

Clareman wrote: »

They were in the Champion the Thursday before hand and they were public knowledge for the local elections but because she didn't have a hope no-one cared.

Personally I think it's a great example about how Irish people will just vote for a party regardless of who the individual is, people complaing about X being just a party person, or putting the party first. Then again I might be just jealous that I didn't go for the SF nomination myself, nice paycheck and pension.

I read this as being somehow 'wrong' to vote for a party, yet on the other hand there is a lot of talk about getting rid of 'parish pump' voting.

The country is run by the 'party' system, so why not vote for a 'party' if you have the country in mind, regardless the candidate or their history etc etc.

To truly vote for 'persons' and not party representatives, everyone elected would need to be independent of the party system when they sat in the Dail.

So the choice is vote 'party' if you want their 'ethos/manifesto/whatever' to be implemented, even though that might mean leaving your local area in the doldrums .....

...else vote for a great person who works tirelessly for the good of the local area, in the rather deluded hope (in most cases) that they will be able to influence those in power in a positive way for your locality.

Which is right or wrong? Which is more effective? Which gives best results for country and which is best for local area?
Damned if I know!

opinionated3

She's coming across as a total scrounger. Glad I didn't vote for her. l admire people who get up early in the morning, do a solid days work and do their best to pay their bills, no matter how difficult their situation. I think the people of Clare have been sold a pup.....

Clareman

Berty wrote: »

I've only just started following the local media, this morning, for the reason of missing out on this news. I don't read the printed publications and frankly don't read the Sun.ie but for my sins I do read the dailymail (comments section are great, very angry people)

Please don't think I read the Sun, it popped up on my facebook feed when a friend shared it.

The Daily Fail is a great read, nice to get a bit of balance :pac::pac::pac:

Clareman

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Which is right or wrong? Which is more effective? Which gives best results for country and which is best for local area?
Damned if I know!

You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, it's not feasible to have 160 independent TDs, nothing would ever get done because everything would only be done on a local level, then again all politics are local so that's out the window.

Personally, there are some parties who's beliefs are completely against mine so even if my mother was running for them I wouldn't vote for them but once it gets to the "main parties" I will look at the individual rather than the party.

golfball37

Berty wrote: »

I've only just started following the local media, this morning, for the reason of missing out on this news. I don't read the printed publications and frankly don't read the Sun.ie but for my sins I do read the dailymail (comments section are great, very angry people)

There's a lad called Duffy there claiming to be from Clarecastle who is an ultimate troll. Always makes me laugh knowing fine well he's no more seen the inside of Powers than a Newmarket hurler.

golfball37

We in Clare for decades voted for FF regardless of candidate quality. I didn't vote for Wynne nor would I but we need start looking at ourselves before throwing stones at others.

Clareman

golfball37 wrote: »

We in Clare for decades voted for FF regardless of candidate quality. I didn't vote for Wynne nor would I but we need start looking at ourselves before throwing stones at others.

In my lifetime there's been 16 FF TD's elected for Clare and 14 for FG, I would say that's well below the national average for returning FF candidated, well outside of Dublin anyway. Looking at the elections since 1987 there's been 9 elections and FF have topped the poll 4 times, considering the boom times I would say that again would be about the national average.

Marty Xavier

That's terrible to read about Wynne. Really with her and the loola below in Waterford you'd have to wonder about some of the SF candidates. Dustin the Turkey indeed!