After Hours Election 2020 poll

Billcarson

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They have been in power in the North. If they did get their way they say they would abolish property tax here. But they never made the slightest move to abolish it in the North when they had the chance.

I dont trust any parties election promises. I will be voting for sf but not because of their promises because I want to see an end to the fg and ff cycle

Marhay70

Deleted User wrote: »

Unsubstantiated drivel.


The party currently favourites to be the major party literally did bankrupt us.

While I wouldn't be a SF voter, the point is well made that the two most likely parties to form a government have a poor track record of good fiscal governance.
You can also include Labour and the Green Party in that as they were supportive of the two main parties right up until the writing was on the wall that the government had had its day.
So the question has to be asked, "Where do the Irish people go for decent representation?" I certainly don't see it in FF/FG, Labour or Greens. Is it with SF?, not with the current players IMO but perhaps in the future.
Both FF and FG travelled the same path as SF in their day and it strikes me as hypocritical that they dismiss SF as a coalition partner yet berate them for not taking up their position in Stormont, with a party who couldn't be more diametrically opposed to them in terms of ideals.
FF also criticised SF for not taking up their Westminister seats in order to counter DUP in the recent Brexit debates, fully aware of the fact SF will not take the Oath of Allegiance, while conveniently forgetting that they themselves plunged this country into Civil War by taking the same stance.

Snow Garden

Duke of Url wrote: »

So where will your votes be going in the upcoming Election?

Can you create a new poll that contains Social Democrats?

The One Doctor

Shifting over to FF after years of voting FG. I feel bad changing but since meeting Leo... well he gave me the creeps. Ugh.

Buford T. Justice XIX

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

1)
People get the government they deserve. The standard of politicians and parties available reflects the standard of you - the people of Ireland. Think they are all crap - well then you are saying the people of Ireland are all crap at governing themselves.

2) Not voting because you consider they are all crap ? Then you are part of the problem. Whatever is on offer, it is people's reponsibility to participate in democracy and at worst, then select what appear to you as the least bad option.

3) SF. SF south of the border had no role. It was the rump of the terrorists still hung up about Norther Ireland and a 32 county state. A negligible if murderous tiny minority. The rest of Ireland got on with life. See point 6.

4) Ireland is generally 80% politically homogenious. It doesnt matter what combination of FF/FG/GRN/Lab/PD/GenepoolRenegades etc has been in government, the politics and capability of the people governing is the same. Beyond that its just politics, pretty faces, slick talkers, or branding. That leaves approx 20 which is a small minority of odds and sods (SF, Socialists, etc). But it is never more than that, so labour leaning politics is never really implemented. It is swamped by the overwhelming majority political centre.

5) The Lab party has at times joined govt - due to the historical dipole FF/FG position. But each time is then 'punished' by its support for going towards the centre and not delivering a left/labour government. But why should it have - it was only only a prop for a large party.

6) LAb was on a particularly low ebb as the northern situation changed. SF, having only really been a workers/labour leaning membership anyway, chose to occupy the ground vacated by the Lab party sent to to the naughty corner, and move towards the 10%-20% of that traditional vote available. But the combination of being essentially the alternative Labour party dipole to the FF/FG dipole, are still constrained by the ceiling of 20%. And less with the unacceptability to a great majority of being essentially terrorists without a mission anymore, and so looking for a role in life.

7) Independents, are the exploiters and opportunists of the simple minded voters who want to choose 'none of the above' when presented with the parties on the ballot sheet. But it is utterly brainless, a spanner in the works of democracy, and counter productive to do so. They would be better off not voting, or spoiling their vote. Elected Inds distort the parliamentary numbers, making increasing the difficult for the adults in the Dail to organise a majority in the chamber to form a government. The Inds are good for nothing but talking heads on our media shows. Why elect people to do that ? A handful were always tolerable - essentially forgotten about. What if everybody voted Ind ? There would be anarchy. Or.....they would form like minded groups and become....parties. And you are back where you started. So stop voting for ****ing independents. They can do nothing for you.

8) So cop on Ireland. They are the best you can do : vote FF/FG/Lab/Grn. And let someone get on with governing.

Mostly +1 on this.

The one difference I would have is that the Irish voting population isn't centerist as such but both left and right leaning at the same time, I think.

We seem to expect the Government to provide all the mod cons of life, housing, roads, rail, health etc, so a leftist bent there, but expect them to do it from a very low personal taxation base to pay for it, the rightist side of the equation.

So both maximum and minimum Government interference at the same time.

Stan27

I'll be voting social dems. Have policies that I agree with, and also it's not voting for ff/fg. We need new people running g the country

sdanseo

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Mostly +1 on this.

The one difference I would have is that the Irish voting population isn't centerist as such but both left and right leaning at the same time, I think.

We seem to expect the Government to provide all the mod cons of life, housing, roads, rail, health etc, so a leftist bent there, but expect them to do it from a very low personal taxation base to pay for it, the rightist side of the equation.

So both maximum and minimum Government interference at the same time.

Completely agree. We want our cake and to eat it.

Either we stop the handouts and increase tax, or increase tax and increase the handouts. A balance is the answer. Bar below which no-one can fall, and a functioning universal health insurance system to go with it, where everyone pays proportionate to their earning and gets nothing for free but assisted where it's proven necessary.

Edgware

Billcarson wrote: »

I dont trust any parties election promises. I will be voting for sf but not because of their promises because I want to see an end to the fg and ff cycle

That will really work

Edgware

Stan27 wrote: »

I'll be voting social dems. Have policies that I agree with, and also it's not voting for ff/fg. We need new people running g the country

Shortall was a Junior Minister but got the strops when the going got tough. Hope she has plenty cream to rub into the splinters on arse she gets for sitting on the fence

Billcarson

Edgware wrote: »

That will really work

Maybe it will? Who knows for sure?

The Rape of Lucretia

Edgware wrote: »

Shortall was a Junior Minister but got the strops when the going got tough. Hope she has plenty cream to rub into the splinters on arse she gets for sitting on the fence

Labour is always in a tough spot though, never being really in a position to implement labour policy. And so, like SF who prospect in the same area and would look the same if part of a coalition, being more aclimatised to shouting from the opposition benches than governing, get caught when the reality of real power and decisions face them. Both know what they would like to do, and say they would do it, but know they would not be able to do it if in office.

But the influence of ministers is overstated anyway. Sure they will claim credit for any good that happens. Thats the game. But they have little impact either in the good or the bad in their ministries.

OneEightSeven

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1218687000653549569

pure.conya

do people actually believe that voting morally corrupt snakes out of power, who will get to retire immediately on massive pensions even if they're only in their 30's/40's/50's is a lesson?

Was it deliberate that they called the date soon enough to stop people registering in time? What would the thinking be behind it and who makes that decision?

Snow Garden

The One Doctor wrote: »

Shifting over to FF after years of voting FG. I feel bad changing but since meeting Leo... well he gave me the creeps. Ugh.

Enda was 100 times worse than Leo. Leo is capable and can actually speak.
I am not sure why Leo's tenure as Taoiseach has been so poor but Enda was way worse. Enda achieved zero.
If I am honest, I think that some of the reasons people dislike Leo are racially motivated.

I Am The Law

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Was it deliberate that they called the date soon enough to stop people registering in time? What would the thinking be behind it and who makes that decision?

Yes it was Deliberate, Cleo made the decision, and the Saturday is also some Hail Mary move to exclude a particular cohort.

I Am The Law

I Am The Law wrote: »

Yes it was Deliberate, Cleo made the decision, and the Saturday is also some Hail Mary move to exclude a particular cohort.

That’s what I was thinking when I heard how soon it was.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Saturday was well chose. FG support is within the pail. City folk will be staying at home to go to the Wales game, rather than a culture weekend break in Bologna, Lyon, a shopping trip to New York, or some such. And a portion of the country folk will not vote due to travelling up to Dublin for the game. Some people think Leo is a gob****e - but there is some serious political acumen behind the pretty smile.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The Saturday was well chose. FG support is within the pail. City folk will be staying at home to go to the Wales game, rather than a culture weekend break in Bologna, Lyon, a shopping trip to New York, or some such. And a portion of the country folk will not vote due to travelling up to Dublin for the game. Some people think Leo is a gob****e - but there is some serious political acumen behind the pretty smile.

Vradkars clientele will have been to Bologna or Lyon 7 or 8 times in the past year already so can wait a week.

EmmetSpiceland

I Am The Law wrote: »

Yes it was Deliberate, Cleo made the decision, and the Saturday is also some Hail Mary move to exclude a particular cohort.

Yeah, all 5 Orthodox Jews will be forced to miss out.

I Am The Law

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The Saturday was well chose. FG support is within the pail. City folk will be staying at home to go to the Wales game, rather than a culture weekend break in Bologna, Lyon, a shopping trip to New York, or some such. And a portion of the country folk will not vote due to travelling up to Dublin for the game. Some people think Leo is a gob****e - but there is some serious political acumen behind the pretty smile.

You think Cleo thought up this all on his own? Not a chance, Kylie was on Graham Norton he hasn't been able to think straight since.

Mad_maxx

Snow Garden wrote: »

Enda was 100 times worse than Leo. Leo is capable and can actually speak.
I am not sure why Leo's tenure as Taoiseach has been so poor but Enda was way worse. Enda achieved zero.
If I am honest, I think that some of the reasons people dislike Leo are racially motivated.

Enda was a miles better leader of both the country and his party than LEO

jmreire

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I don't like politics. I don't follow it. I can't tell the difference between FF, FG, Labour, SF or any of them. To me, they're all mouthpieces who only say what you want to hear until they get into power, and they turn into the same old bellends who only want the money and status. There isn't a single politician in Ireland I would give my vote, so I'm abstaining again. Why?

Show me a politician that supports single working adults. Show me one that would fight to remove the frankly ludicrous legal requirement for me to have maternity and child cover on my own private health insurance, which I'll never need as I don't want kids and I'm male. Show me one who will help the struggling single people without dependencies to get some free stuff that everyone else gets. Show me one that will give me a 'no child' payment every month. Show me one who is 100% behind, and will properly follow through, cannabis legalisation. Show me one who will voluntarily take a 50% pay cut or give up expenses, one or the other, to help this country.
Exactly, they don't exist. So why would I bother my hole voting for the next crop of people who are queuing up to ride me raw up the hole multiple times a day. They're all crooked, they're all corrupt, they're all only in it for the money. No one represents me or my ideas, so I won't vote for anyone, as no matter who gets in, I'll be screwed anyway. That has been my experience of politics in my 18 years since becoming an adult.

Yes, and you are only one of many.....say we get a voter turnout of 65% ( for argument's sake ) so for one reason or another, 35% did not vote. So say 5%
of these did not vote because of some physical but genuine reason, that means that 30% did not vote because they could not be bothered no matter who was trying to get elected,or deliberately abstained because they have no faith in the candidates presenting themselves.
But instead of not voting, go to the polling booth, take your card and deliberately spoil it. So it is registered as a spoiled vote. At the moment, when Politicians, are questioned about low voter turnout, their answer to that is " Sure they must be happy with things the way they are so" A definite increase %-wise in spoiled votes would be hard to explain away....and give notice to politicians that change is needed.
And another thing..Legally, I'm not sure if you are compelled by law to vote or not? But if it is a legal requirement, then the Govt should enforce it..They are able to enforce the law when it comes to filling in census forms...they should be able to force people to vote too if that is the law.
Maybe, just maybe...actions like this will bring about change over time. For sure change is needed.

Mad_maxx

Edgware wrote: »

Shortall was a Junior Minister but got the strops when the going got tough. Hope she has plenty cream to rub into the splinters on arse she gets for sitting on the fence

biggest waffler in the dail , never off the fcuking radio either

Galwayguy35

Snow Garden wrote: »

Enda was 100 times worse than Leo. Leo is capable and can actually speak.
I am not sure why Leo's tenure as Taoiseach has been so poor but Enda was way worse. Enda achieved zero.
If I am honest, I think that some of the reasons people dislike Leo are racially motivated.

Kenny took over a country that had been run into the ground by FF, you do remember what it was like 10 years ago don't you?

The corner was turned when Leo took over but he made mess of things.

Varadkar just doesn't seem to be able to connect with the people he needs to get on side if he wants to remain in the bosses chair

Thinking it was a good idea to commerate traitors did him no favours either.

Snow Garden

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Kenny took over a country that had been run into the ground by FF, you do remember what it was like 10 years ago don't you?

The corner was turned when Leo took over but he made mess of things.

Varadkar just doesn't seem to be able to connect with the people he needs to get on side if he wants to remain in the bosses chair

Thinking it was a good idea to commerate traitors did him no favours either.

Enda got lucky with the economy. He didn't have any new ideas. They were all IMF/FF economic policies.

The hard working people of Ireland and US multinationals got us back on track.
Enda tried to scupper the recovery with the biggest quango of all time - Irish Water (set up in a cloud of cronyism and corruption).

Enda promised new politics and and end to the trolley crisis and abolition/reform of the Seanad. He also let Maurice McCabe hang in the wind for years while successive justice ministers and corrupt Garda commissioners tried to silence him.

Galwayguy35

Snow Garden wrote: »

Enda got lucky with the economy. He didn't have any new ideas. They were all IMF/FF economic policies.

The hard working people of Ireland and US multinationals got us back on track.
Enda tried to scupper the recovery with the biggest quango of all time - Irish Water (set up in a cloud of cronyism and corruption).

Enda promised new politics and and end to the trolley crisis and abolition/reform of the Seanad. He also let Maurice McCabe hang in the wind for years while successive justice ministers and corrupt Garda commissioners tried to silence him.

So what has your boy Varadkar done differently?

Kenny put himself in front of the people twice and was returned, although it was only by the skin of his teeth last time round.

This is Varadkars first time fighting for re election as Taoiseach and he has done nothing to warrant a return to the bosses chair.

Although the alternative is worse, the idea of MM running the show is enough to make me sick.

The Rape of Lucretia

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Although the alternative is worse, the idea of MM running the show is enough to make me sick.

Why ? I would say he is a least as competent as Leo, and well up to doing the job. We are fortunate in this election in knowing that whatever the outcome, we will have a decent Taoisèach.

Galwayguy35

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Why ? I would say he is a least as competent as Leo, and well up to doing the job. We are fortunate in this election in knowing that whatever the outcome, we will have a decent Taoisèach.

He is a savvy politician no doubt but he was no great shakes in Health and FF don't seem to want to give working people any break at all in the amount of tax we pay.

Edgware

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The Saturday was well chose. FG support is within the pail. City folk will be staying at home to go to the Wales game, rather than a culture weekend break in Bologna, Lyon, a shopping trip to New York, or some such. And a portion of the country folk will not vote due to travelling up to Dublin for the game. Some people think Leo is a gob****e - but there is some serious political acumen behind the pretty smile.

"within the pail" ? They might kick the bucket allright
Hoping to get a boost because students will go home from their excessively rented accommodation to vote and "country folk" will not vote due to travelling to Dublin is really grasping at straws. Incidentally a lot of these "country folk" are from North of the Border and wont have a vote.