"Money isn't everything"

Graces7

I hear you; thank you.

But "what if" ery is no way to live. It really isn't. Makes life hell for you. A car "might" knock you down .. Lightning " might" strike you.

Blessed you are of you had the chance to make personal savings; many do not have that blessing through no fault of their own. We live from hand to mouth. Literally. And that is fine and no worries.I mean that.

And the chances of that happening are so slight; alarmism! Not something to worry about. And nothing many of us can do about it. There are no guarantees in life.

Difference between how YOU react and how WE in that situation feel ; subjective rather than objective .


QUOTE=lainey_d_123;112273223]You can't guarantee that it will always be there. A future government might slash welfare and make it difficult to impossible to survive on it. I know a lot of people with no skills at all who I consider to be at the mercy of the welfare state. What do they do if it all gets taken away? I would feel very uncomfortable without at least some personal savings, an emergency fund, etc.[/QUOTE]

Graces7

? irrelevant to my post

Each of us does the best we can at that time and makes what provision we can. Then gets on with enjoying life to the best of our ability.

Worrying about what might happen when we can do nothing about it?

Before I found this rather fragile roof I came near to having to live in my car . Would have coped but glad I did not have to. The roof/money is not my security; my ability to cope is, with whatever money or other provision is there.

As many others are saying in this thread.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm sure you have a roof over your head, which is being paid for, or was paid for at some point.

10000maniacs

If you think nobody cares whether you're alive, try missing a couple of payments.

sbsquarepants

Graces7 wrote: »

The roof/money is not my security; my ability to cope is, with whatever money or other provision is there.
.

You've hit the nail on head Graces7. The strength to know that whatever life throws at you, you will make it through is worth it's weight in gold.

We all know people who have come through incredible hardships and others who fall apart at the seams when the wifi goes out or their car breaks down.

Resilience, grit, toughness whatever you want to call it - once you have that you'll be fine in the long run!

Raconteuse

Money isn't literally everything, but people are still missing the point. They keep bringing up how having huge wealth won't bring happiness, how earning huge money requires horrendous stress. This isn't what Lainey is talking about.

Don't anyone tell me that they would rather be struggling to make ends meet than have enough money to prevent being in arrears on their bills, rent/mortgage and health insurance. This doesn't require huge wealth at all, and it's got nothing to do with having loads of stuff. I think consumerism has gone nuts, but that doesn't mean I would like to be struggling financially. I earn enough to be comfortable (no arrears, savings in the bank), I have health insurance (people keep going on about health as if there is no connection between that and being secure financially) and that is all I want - I'm very happy with that. I drive a nine-year-old car and it's perfect for me - don't intend to upgrade. I don't buy loads of stuff/go to fancy restaurants regularly/drink expensive wine regularly, only the occasional treat; groceries in Aldi, and I don't want to be earning big money because of the stress that that job would entail.

One eyed Jack

Raconteuse wrote: »

Money isn't literally everything, but people are still missing the point. They keep bringing up how having huge wealth won't bring happiness, how earning huge money requires horrendous stress. This isn't what Lainey is talking about.

Don't anyone tell me that they would rather be struggling to make ends meet than have enough money to prevent being in arrears on their bills, rent/mortgage and health insurance.

I’m not missing Lainey’s point. I’m making the point that there are plenty of people who have nothing, and want for nothing, or they want things that cannot be bought, like a connection with humanity, or to be left alone without interference from do-gooders with the best of intentions.

In Lainey’s world those people are touched in the head. Nobody is saying anyone wants to live in debt and stress unable to make ends meet, those people are stressed not because of the lack of money, but because they use utilities and services or accumulate resources, and then stress about how to maintain their lifestyle. Other people who are capable of living within their means and can afford their lifestyle, don’t stress over being unable to afford their lifestyle - the point is that they aren’t motivated to want a different lifestyle which would inevitably require more than they can afford, and therefore necessitates more money to afford it.

The point being made is that money is only one aspect of any lifestyle, and it isn’t the only thing to consider when taking everything into account what makes a person content. I get that for some people having money provides freedom and security and all the rest of it. I don’t think there’s anything materialistic about that, it’s simply an ideal lifestyle which makes them content. Other people are motivated by other things which mean contentment for them. It doesn’t necessarily mean that people who aren’t motivated by money or don’t share the opinion that “money is everything when you don’t have it” have never struggled or have never known what it is to have nothing. That’s an assumption that Lainey has formed based upon her experiences, and that’s why I suggested that they ought to get out more, or pinkeye suggesting that I’m bullshìtting because it hasn’t been her experience.

That’s fine that it hasn’t been their experience, but why bother asking for other people’s opinions then if you’re just going to reject their opinions as nonsense? That’s why I said I was beginning to realise I shouldn’t have bothered - they were always going to think what they wanted anyway in spite of any evidence to the contrary. I’ve always been ok with that once I realised they were content. I’m not interested in taking that away from anyone - if believing whatever they believe makes them content, then I’m always reluctant to interfere with that. Their lifestyle may not be a lifestyle I would choose for myself, but they’re content to live that way, and that’s more important than me imposing my standards on someone else and claiming they must be touched in the head if they don’t see things the way I do. How could they when our experiences and our perception of our experiences are clearly so different?

Graces7

Deeply thankful for your words.

Folk get dependent on things and services. My illness hit at an early age in my life and took my career etc. What made it harder was the patronising attitudes of others.

That I was am a lesser creation.
Which still is around.

As you say it takes time to adjust but so worthwhile . I am more deeply content now that at any other time and see the realism .And also more "poor" in monetary terms at an advanced age... Last year I made the decision to not replace my old car because the costs of running it are beyond reason. Yes I miss it as I cannot walk far now, but that is all fine now. Not the end of the world to be without transport. Now when a problem hits. SO WHAT! I lift my head and sort it with considerable ingenuity.

And I enjoy my life . Smaller things matter more.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You've hit the nail on head Graces7. The strength to know that whatever life throws at you, you will make it through is worth it's weight in gold.

We all know people who have come through incredible hardships and others who fall apart at the seams when the wifi goes out or their car breaks down.

Resilience, grit, toughness whatever you want to call it - once you have that you'll be fine in the long run!

Graces7

OK; if you hit hard times, you downsize. NB I am English and NHS covers all health care. A huge assurance that is missed over here.

I never had rent arrears; always lived within my means. Never let arrears build up; never was one to eat out. So struggling to make ends meet never happened. Through realistic care.

You would have to have huge reserves to feel " secure" anyways.

And the fear of govt scrapping welfare support? Worrying that anyone really fears that.

Raconteuse wrote: »

Money isn't literally everything, but people are still missing the point. They keep bringing up how having huge wealth won't bring happiness, how earning huge money requires horrendous stress. This isn't what Lainey is talking about.

Don't anyone tell me that they would rather be struggling to make ends meet than have enough money to prevent being in arrears on their bills, rent/mortgage and health insurance. This doesn't require huge wealth at all, and it's got nothing to do with having loads of stuff. I think consumerism has gone nuts, but that doesn't mean I would like to be struggling financially. I earn enough to be comfortable (no arrears, savings in the bank), I have health insurance (people keep going on about health as if there is no connection between that and being secure financially) and that is all I want - I'm very happy with that. I drive a nine-year-old car and it's perfect for me - don't intend to upgrade. I don't buy loads of stuff/go to fancy restaurants regularly/drink expensive wine regularly, only the occasional treat; groceries in Aldi, and I don't want to be earning big money because of the stress that that job would entail.

Raconteuse

And people say family is more important. Well of course family is infinitely more important than stuff, but if you're the provider for your family you'll sure as hell want to ensure you aren't struggling to pay bills, buy them clothes, food and birthday/Christmas presents, and cover medical expenses/the roof over their head.

Also, as if people would turn down e.g. a lottery win that ensures not having to work again and spending much more time with family.

Dial Hard

Money isn't everything but it sure as hell helps with everything else.

Graces7

Dial Hard wrote: »

Money isn't everything but it sure as hell helps with everything else.

Money cannot and does not buy the most important things in this life.

somefeen

Money isn't everything, but going to an ATM and knowing with absolute confidence that there is money there is a big deal for me.

I've spent enough time being poor to appreciate having cash and being able to spend the odd 20 - 50 euro knowing it's not going to impact me in any meaningful way

Raconteuse

Graces7 wrote: »

Money cannot and does not buy the most important things in this life.

Crikey. Yes it can, yes it does. Healthcare is not free. A home is not free. Education is not free. Clothing is not free.

Graces7

Raconteuse wrote: »

Crikey. Yes it can, yes it does. Healthcare is not free. A home is not free. Education is not free. Clothing is not free.

Where did I say these things are not free? But there is far more to life than these things, far far more . And many things that money cannot and does not buy.

So no money cannot buy everything by any manner of means. It cannot buy the things than really matter; caring, friends. and s o much more. So much that without them nothing money can buy means anything.

NB I am English; health care and education were free there.

Raconteuse

Graces7 wrote: »

Where did I say these things are not free?

You said money cannot buy them. Far far more to life than health and shelter? Come on now.

The people being all new agey and "I can live solely on love" are really proving Lainey's point. Would that they'd admit it!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Raconteuse wrote: »

Crikey. Yes it can, yes it does. Healthcare is not free. A home is not free. Education is not free. Clothing is not free.

And let's not forget that even those enjoying "free" healthcare, housing, or education are doing so because somebody else's money paid for it.

Of course money isn't everything but it's damned important and makes life so much easier in many ways. The Beatles were right and it can't buy you love. It can't ensure good health or guarantee friendship. But very often the same people espousing the "money doesn't buy the important things in life" are the same one's moaning about the expense of things, dropping hints for a freebee, and with a take take take attitude.

The OP insists that it's the well off who use the term but it's usually those with less money who seem to want to reassure or convince themselves that money doesn't really matter.

bitofabind

Of course money isn’t everything. You usually need to be above the bottom two tiers in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs to really appreciate that though. As long as you’re struggling with basic needs like personal security, shelter, food, sleep etc, you’re going to think money is pretty damn important.

I’m self aware enough to know that I’m privileged to never have had to worry about it in any real sense. I did the low income jobs but always had my family to fall back on. However the most stressful year of my life was probably when I was working 90 hour weeks with no semblance of work life balance and my mental health fraying at the seams in exchange for a good salary and high bonuses. No hobbies, no love life, no social life and a constant weight on my shoulders.

The pursuit of money alone is a lonely experience when it’s not backed by meaning or a strong value system. It’s empty and it won’t help you to smile or laugh or live a life with integrity.

Raconteuse

I'd say the anxiety and energy sapping of working 90 hours a week and of falling way behind in rent/mortgage payments, electricity/heating bills and health insurance payments are similar. Different things but both tormentingly stressful.

The Rape of Lucretia

Anyone working 90 hours a week though, is not struggling to survive. They might be struggling - but that their own choice. Due to living beyond their means, or failing to recognise the reality of their financial position. They can choose not to struggle.

voldejoie

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Anyone working 90 hours a week though, is not struggling to survive. They might be struggling - but that their own choice. Due to living beyond their means, or failing to recognise the reality of their financial position. They can choose not to struggle.

I think it depends though. I've had weeks where I've worked 90 hours or even more, and it can be absolutely hellish and is unsustainable for prolonged periods before something has to give, but outside of chasing a performance related bonus I think in most cases people who work that many hours in a week are generally salaried employees (who don't make any more money for working the additional hours) or are self-employed and trying to keep their business afloat. All that said, nine times out of ten there is at least some element of choice to it, but I think in the context of working that much it can be overwhelmingly difficult to see the wood from the trees and realise that.

To address the topic of the thread, I grew up in a poor family and have certain hang ups about money as a result, but I'm incredibly lucky to be in a position where I'm more or less financially stable and can generally provide for the needs of my family. That safety net has been an incredible relief to me the past few years, which isn't to say that I don't have any troubles or my life is perfect, but as many have said before me it's a lot easier to face the harder things in life when you're not also scrambling to afford the basic necessities of life.

Raconteuse

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Anyone working 90 hours a week though, is not struggling to survive. They might be struggling - but that their own choice. Due to living beyond their means, or failing to recognise the reality of their financial position. They can choose not to struggle.

Yeah but bitofabind qualified that. They acknowledged money is damn important when you're on the breadline, but also that the kind of work hours you have to put in for big money isn't worth it either. A balanced look at both perspectives.

lainey_d_123

Lyle Flat Pedigree wrote: »

And let's not forget that even those enjoying "free" healthcare, housing, or education are doing so because somebody else's money paid for it.

Of course money isn't everything but it's damned important and makes life so much easier in many ways. The Beatles were right and it can't buy you love. It can't ensure good health or guarantee friendship. But very often the same people espousing the "money doesn't buy the important things in life" are the same one's moaning about the expense of things, dropping hints for a freebee, and with a take take take attitude.

The OP insists that it's the well off who use the term but it's usually those with less money who seem to want to reassure or convince themselves that money doesn't really matter.

Yes, this is actually also very true. I've known a few people like this (usually wannabe hippy types) and it's maddening.

Acting all high and mighty and above working for 'the man' and yet perfectly happy to use public services, hospitals and other things paid for by taxpayers. Perfectly happy to accept drinks bought for them at the pub without ever buying any back, bum cigarettes/weed off people, ask for lifts everywhere, etc. They never seem to see the hypocrisy in saying money doesn't matter while constantly sponging off other people's hard work.

lainey_d_123

bitofabind wrote: »

Of course money isn’t everything. You usually need to be above the bottom two tiers in Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs to really appreciate that though. As long as you’re struggling with basic needs like personal security, shelter, food, sleep etc, you’re going to think money is pretty damn important.

I’m self aware enough to know that I’m privileged to never have had to worry about it in any real sense. I did the low income jobs but always had my family to fall back on. However the most stressful year of my life was probably when I was working 90 hour weeks with no semblance of work life balance and my mental health fraying at the seams in exchange for a good salary and high bonuses. No hobbies, no love life, no social life and a constant weight on my shoulders.

The pursuit of money alone is a lonely experience when it’s not backed by meaning or a strong value system. It’s empty and it won’t help you to smile or laugh or live a life with integrity.

Yep, that's basically my point. When you're so poor that you can't take those things for granted, money is all you can think about. I haven't been that poor in a few years now, thank God, but I still don't take even the smallest things for granted. I know an unexpectedly high gas bill won't mean having to skip dinners or have to walk 2+ hours to work in the rain at 6am because I can't afford to renew my transport card. Money buys peace of mind and security and I can't imagine anything being more important than that.

ILoveYourVibes

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Anyone working 90 hours a week though, is not struggling to survive. They might be struggling - but that their own choice. Due to living beyond their means, or failing to recognise the reality of their financial position. They can choose not to struggle.

You obviously have never worked for the min wage then trying to support a family after tax.

One eyed Jack

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yep, that's basically my point. When you're so poor that you can't take those things for granted, money is all you can think about.

No, money is all you can think about. You’re trying to apply your own standards to other people, and they just don’t apply. I get your point, but your mindset isn’t nearly as universal as you appear to believe.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Money buys peace of mind and security and I can't imagine anything being more important than that.

Well of course peace of mind is important, security is a bit hit and miss - plenty of people value flexibility over security, so it depends upon whichever is more likely to bring a person peace of mind. Security works for you, flexibility works for me. In that sense I don’t take my current role for granted, but the pay isn’t the motivating factor - the motivation is simply that I enjoy what I do. When or if I don’t enjoy doing it any more, I’ll simply do something else.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You obviously have never worked for the min wage then trying to support a family after tax.

There’s no way you could possibly have determined that from what the poster wrote. The minimum wage in Ireland is soon to be €10.10 an hour -


For someone on the new minimum wage of €10.10 an hour they will have Income tax deductions of €797 ; PRSI €558 and USC €229 – leaving a take-home annual pay of €18,889 or €363 a week.

Minimum Wage Increase in 2020 - Money Guide Ireland

Plenty of people earning minimum wage are providing for their families without struggling.

Graces7

Wise wise words, but some here are on an altogether different wavelength. As you rightly aver. Maybe a generational thing too.

And same old picking and misunderstanding of the basic structure of society, that those who earn more pay more taxes and thus provide services for those who earn less. Not a question of freeloading etc and shows up those who hint at that!

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No, money is all you can think about. You’re trying to apply your own standards to other people, and they just don’t apply. I get your point, but your mindset isn’t nearly as universal as you appear to believe.

Well of course peace of mind is important, security is a bit hit and miss - plenty of people value flexibility over security, so it depends upon whichever is more likely to bring a person peace of mind. Security works for you, flexibility works for me. In that sense I don’t take my current role for granted, but the pay isn’t the motivating factor - the motivation is simply that I enjoy what I do. When or if I don’t enjoy doing it any more, I’ll simply do something else.

Plenty of people earning minimum wage are providing for their families without struggling.

Graces7

Then you rethink your entire lifestyle and adjust.

As so many of us on basic pensions have had to do. And still do.

Not easy but the only way to any peace.
And you learn to enjoy different things also

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yep, that's basically my point. When you're so poor that you can't take those things for granted, money is all you can think about. I haven't been that poor in a few years now, thank God, but I still don't take even the smallest things for granted. I know an unexpectedly high gas bill won't mean having to skip dinners or have to walk 2+ hours to work in the rain at 6am because I can't afford to renew my transport card. Money buys peace of mind and security and I can't imagine anything being more important than that.

Graces7

Never met anyone like that . :eek:

Interesting attitude though. Thank you.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yes, this is actually also very true. I've known a few people like this (usually wannabe hippy types) and it's maddening.

Acting all high and mighty and above working for 'the man' and yet perfectly happy to use public services, hospitals and other things paid for by taxpayers. Perfectly happy to accept drinks bought for them at the pub without ever buying any back, bum cigarettes/weed off people, ask for lifts everywhere, etc. They never seem to see the hypocrisy in saying money doesn't matter while constantly sponging off other people's hard work.

Graces7

In what direction though? I grew up like that and it bred a lasting independence and resourcefulness in me that has served me well all my life. And taught me that managing with little money is not a disaster etc. Unless you allow it to be

mariaalice wrote: »

Not being able to rely on parents to provide consistency when someone is a child dose have a profound effect on how someone views money.

Graces7

But that is not what most of us here are talking about; interesting that it has got twisted and assessed totally differently!

Raconteuse wrote: »

Insane wealth yes - it can mess with a person's head.

Financial security instead of barely scraping by though - it's something else causing misery.