"Money isn't everything"

Church on Tuesday

Guy Person wrote: »

I don't think I have ever seen a post by you that I have disagreed with anewme. You are not anewme you are actually me, get out of my head! I feel the same, I grew up poor in a family that are just not good with money and I prioritised financial security early on and have eventually done ok on that front. I'm far from rich but I am comfortable and it does ease some of the many stresses of life in my opinion. It hasn't made me "happy" of course but it has helped me in my life a lot in a way I think not having it would have contributed to unhappiness a lot in my life.
(Also I'm aware this isn't exactly what the thread is about)




As someone who considers himself a Church on Tuesday fan I'm sorry to read that but am glad to see that you have something lined up. I was on the dole for a long time too at one stage in my life and it's not something to aspire to for sure. I wish you the best of luck with it Church, I hope it works out for you.

Thanks Guy for your kind words, it's a step in the right direction, we'll see how things go

Raconteuse

Calhoun wrote: »

I think there is a lesson here in being happy with what you have to a degree sure we need to look after the basics of security and housing ect but its also important to be happy enough in yourself that phrases like money isn't everything gets your back up.

And to be happy enough not to sneer and be obtuse.

I think people know full well what Lainey means but they're just SO much deeper and can live on friendship and fresh air or something.

Of course you're gonna be unhappy if you're under the stress of debt/poverty, and you're going to be happier without that burden. That's huge in a person's life. That isn't in any way undermining all of the other elements that give life happiness and purpose - if anything not having to be worried sick about finances would help you enjoy those things more.

I think it's actually kinda disrespectful to people who are struggling financially to say money means so little.

And I say that as someone who has never been rich but has never had to experience financial struggle either. Thank feck.

Bringing up these examples of people working themselves into an early grave - grand but it's not really relevant, as having enough to be comfortable is all that's meant as the ideal, not being super rich.

And people who say they were unhappy when they had more money I think should qualify this - were they unhappy BECAUSE of having more money or were they unhappy due to other circumstances? If the latter (which I strongly suspect) then imagine that chapter of life with being broke too on top of everything else.

If people were unhappy doing a stressful job (and I can relate - a stressful job is awful) that made them good money, it's the job that caused them unhappiness, not the money. I'd take less money for less stress too - hands down. But I'd still want enough money to have no financial worries and to save something for a rainy day/enjoy occasional treats.

Calhoun

Raconteuse wrote: »

And to be happy enough not to sneer and be obtuse.

I think people know full well what Lainey means but they're just SO much deeper and can live on friendship and fresh air or something.

Of course you're gonna be unhappy if you're under the stress of debt/poverty, and you're going to be happier without that burden. That's huge in a person's life. That isn't in any way undermining all of the other elements that give life happiness and purpose - if anything not having to be worried sick about finances would help you enjoy those things more.

I think it's actually kinda disrespectful to people who are struggling financially to say money means so little.

And I say that as someone who has never been rich but has never had to experience financial struggle either. Thank feck.

Well the opening sentence didn't do allot to endear people to the OP's message as it didn't come across like it was meant. It is as equally disrespectful to use the term to sneer at people who have financial issues as it is to take issue with the term in general because of your own situation.

Its why the focus on being happy in yourself is important, people are assholes most of the time and sometimes they will use you to feel better about themselves. We have to try be resilient enough where it doesn't impact us, we might fail at this but let them stew in their own misery.

At the same time though as i said it can also be used by folks who are friends to advise us on miss steps they have made.

Raconteuse

I think people are grand most of the time. Assholes are the minority imo. And of course it's important to be happy in yourself, but that's no use to you if you can't pay bills or rent. If anything that would hammer your self esteem.

Calhoun

Indeed they are but the type of people who sneer at you for having little money normally are bullies who aren't happy in themselves.

The reason that the other advice is important in that money isn't everything i believe is more a sign of the times and how consumerism has impacted us, people try too hard to keep up with the Jones when they dont have to. Which is definitely not the same as just being comfortable.

ILoveYourVibes

Raconteuse wrote: »

And to be happy enough not to sneer and be obtuse.

I think people know full well what Lainey means but they're just SO much deeper and can live on friendship and fresh air or something.

Of course you're gonna be unhappy if you're under the stress of debt/poverty, and you're going to be happier without that burden. That's huge in a person's life. That isn't in any way undermining all of the other elements that give life happiness and purpose - if anything not having to be worried sick about finances would help you enjoy those things more.

I think it's actually kinda disrespectful to people who are struggling financially to say money means so little.

And I say that as someone who has never been rich but has never had to experience financial struggle either. Thank feck.

Bringing up these examples of people working themselves into an early grave - grand but it's not really relevant, as having enough to be comfortable is all that's meant as the ideal, not being super rich.

And people who say they were unhappy when they had more money I think should qualify this - were they unhappy BECAUSE of having more money or were they unhappy due to other circumstances? If the latter (which I strongly suspect) then imagine that chapter of life with being broke too on top of everything else.

If people were unhappy doing a stressful job (and I can relate - a stressful job is awful) that made them good money, it's the job that caused them unhappiness, not the money. I'd take less money for less stress too - hands down. But I'd still want enough money to have no financial worries and to save something for a rainy day/enjoy occasional treats.

That's not what most wealthy people mean when they say money isn't everything.

Yes its true wealthy people are not experienced in knowing how poverty can affect you psychologically.

However its true that most people who have never been rich don't know empty it can be for some.

You can't live on friendship. But richest man in the world is also the most isolated.

People who grow up rich often grow up lonely.

Rich people often lack a sense of community.

Raconteuse

Calhoun wrote: »

Indeed they are but the type of people who sneer at you for having little money normally are bullies who aren't happy in themselves.

The reason that the other advice is important in that money isn't everything i believe is more a sign of the times and how consumerism has impacted us, people try too hard to keep up with the Jones when they dont have to. Which is definitely not the same as just being comfortable.

Yeah hyper consumerism bugs me - "money isn't everything" being an unfair thing to say depends on the context in fairness. People saying "family and friends etc mean more to me" is a bit glib though as it undermines (unintentionally) those struggling to make ends meet. Family and friends mean the world to them too, but so does not having to worry about finances. Or using some unhappy massively wealthy person who was deeply depressed to demonstrate how money means little. Well imagine that level of depression plus being broke. But those cases aren't even relevant anyway to your average person.

Another one is "health is more important to me" - well you'll be ****ed without health insurance if you do get seriously ill. And stress caused by financial insecurity is actually damaging to your health. Would I rather not be rich and live to a ripe old age or be rich and succumb to a terminal illness? Damn right I'd prefer the first one, but note that the first one doesn't include struggling financially either.

One eyed Jack

Raconteuse wrote: »

And to be happy enough not to sneer and be obtuse.

I think people know full well what Lainey means but they're just SO much deeper and can live on friendship and fresh air or something.

...

I think it's actually kinda disrespectful to people who are struggling financially to say money means so little.

I just read Lainey’s opening post there again and nope, it’s as sneery as the first time I read it. I get that she didn’t grow up wealthy, but that no reason to assume anyone who has a different opinion to hers has to have been spoiled, sheltered and wealthy. She’s never in her entire life heard anyone who has struggled or been poor say money isn’t everything, but anyone who has said it she thinks this of them -

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I've met people who say money doesn't matter and it's better to follow your dreams and I think without exception they have all had mammy and daddy funding them in some way and providing a safety net while they mess around doing their art or music or whatever. They scoff at people who choose careers for the money without even thinking that maybe some people really have no backup and nobody who could dig them out if it all went wrong.

If that’s not an indication of someone who has been sheltered, sneering and attempting to be obtuse, I’m not sure how else it could be categorised. It’s as though people outside of her own insular bubble couldn’t possibly exist. Naturally a person is going to get riled up when their perceptions of other people are challenged. I don’t think Lainey intended to be disrespectful, and I don’t think anyone intended to be disrespectful to her personally given the context in which she explained how the phrase was used. Lainey isn’t a poor child any more, it’s time she stopped pretending like she is and taking offence where no offence was intended.

Raconteuse

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You can be wealthy and miserable.

Money won't make you happy if you aren't happy already.

It will if being impoverished was what was causing you to be miserable.

Yeah people who are wealthy can be miserable but having financial security isn't what's making them miserable.

ILoveYourVibes

Raconteuse wrote: »

It will if being impoverished was what was causing you to be miserable.

Yeah people who are wealthy can be miserable but having financial security isn't what's making them miserable.

Money can make you miserable. I've seen it happen.

Lyan

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Money can make you miserable. I've seen it happen.

I agree. I lost a tenner last week and felt like ****e.

Raconteuse

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Money can make you miserable. I've seen it happen.

Insane wealth yes - it can mess with a person's head.

Financial security instead of barely scraping by though - it's something else causing misery.

Kermit.de.frog

The idea that having money causes issues is something poor people tell themselves to make them feel better. It's PC culture and millennial speak.

It is not true.

If you have a lot of money you will be very happy, happier than everyone else.

Raconteuse

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The idea that having money causes issues is something poor people tell themselves to make them feel better. It's PC culture and millennial speak.

It is not true.

If you have a lot of money you will be very happy, happier than everyone else.

I think it's more to sound like they're so non materialistic etc. It ain't poor people though - it's people who have no serious financial worries. Someone with a lot of money can be unhappy - to say they're all happy is incorrect. But it's unlikely to be because of the money, and it sure beats living on the breadline.

One eyed Jack

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The idea that having money causes issues is something poor people tell themselves to make them feel better. It's PC culture and millennial speak.

It is not true.

If you have a lot of money you will be very happy, happier than everyone else.

That’s simply not true though -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The reason I say money isn’t everything is simply because I’ve seen what making money the sole focus of their lives has done to some people - it’s made them miserable. I didn’t grow up spoiled and it was my parents who were wealthy. I never saw a penny of it, and in a way I’m glad I didn’t, because I saw how miserable they were from it all. They didn’t have the freedom you speak of, because they were always fearful of losing it all, even though such fears were completely irrational as they were both employed. Even that in itself was a good thing because it meant I hardly had to spend any time in their perpetually miserable company.

Having money comes with it’s own set of problems. They’re just a different set of problems to those people who don’t have money is all. The point being that someone who thinks money is everything is going to be miserable no matter how much they can, or indeed can’t, afford their lifestyle.

Wanderer78

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

If you have a lot of money you will be very happy, happier than everyone else.

Read a story once about an extremely wealthy man, he came across as being deeply unhappy and lonely, unable to find a person he could share his life with, so no, I'd disagree with you there, wealth sometimes doesn't always create happiness

Lyan

There is a correlation between wealth and happiness, up to a certain point. Basically once you are earning enough that all those money related problems are pushed to the back of your mind it stops making you happier.
Of course there is gonna be some nuance to it. I'm sure a poor worker could potentially be happier than a very high earner if they at least had the wealth and power to be highly successful within their social environment of other poor people.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/05/can-money-buy-happiness-debate-study-on-success.html

mojesius

Money talks
But it don't sing and dance and it don't walk

Been wearing blue jeans most days for 25 years.

2lazytogetup

people think differently of you when you dont have money. Richer people have money for gyms, better clothes, better diets, better haircuts. Money gives you a confidence people want to associate with richer people. i dont have much money and people notice my ill fitting clothes.

Money means you dont have to waste time stressing about the small things and penny pinching. rich people live in nicer leafier suburbs.

id say money contributes about 70% to happiness. its much harder to be happier if you dont have money. But if you have money but nothing else you are 70% of the way there.

Though its very hard to get money. to get into a high paying job takes good genes, and even if you work hard, there is a bit of luck needed. i know rich people cause they got into the right job at the right time. Or they bought a house or made an investment at the right time. or you could get lucky with an inheritance. so the people that dont sweat making money and have less stressful jobs, they have smartly accepted that they wont get more money so why stress about it (pun not intended)

i heard from usa studies for a single person you need 80k per annum to to reach the most amount of happiness that money will bring. in that anything over 80k will not make you much happier. For a family, you probably need income of 200k to reach this level of happiness.

babi-hrse

Money isn't everything but it sure helps.
I think the phrase was for people who have high stress long hours jobs that have excellent remuneration packages.
But the downsides are ill health not getting to see your family grow up strained relationships and mental well-being.
Some people might consider themselves failing if they drop down from a position and take a reduction in pay. Money comes in every paycheck getting lost time back to be with family doesn't.
But yes scraping by and eating fast food is also a quick path to ill health.

Still waters

I've realised recently that ill never be rich. I've tried over the years to save and mind my money but there's always something to pay for or some unexpected bill to be paid, I'm self employed so it goes from good months where everything goes right to a bad month where i can't work some days because of bad weather or i get flu or more recently where I've had a good few days off due to a back problem

But I've also realised that as long as i keep on top of bills, keep them small and don't get too far in over my head I'm a lot happier, so maybe money won't make me happy but i know if I've a hundred in my pocket and no one i owe money to I'm a lot happier and relaxed, i live a frugal life, one holiday a year and drive a jeep that's paid for so i don't need a lot of money to get by on, i wouldn't mind winning the lotto though just to see what its like

lainey_d_123

Raconteuse wrote: »

And to be happy enough not to sneer and be obtuse.

I think people know full well what Lainey means but they're just SO much deeper and can live on friendship and fresh air or something.

Of course you're gonna be unhappy if you're under the stress of debt/poverty, and you're going to be happier without that burden. That's huge in a person's life. That isn't in any way undermining all of the other elements that give life happiness and purpose - if anything not having to be worried sick about finances would help you enjoy those things more.

Exactly. This is pure common sense, to be honest.

It's kind of sickening seeing people romanticise poverty, as if not having money makes you appreciate the 'important stuff'. The important stuff is having a secure home, enough to eat, etc. Watch any of the many recent documentaries from the UK about families living in poverty...are they happy? Of course they're bloody not. Constant financial worries take an enormous toll on mental health, well-being and relationships. Not much quality time with the kids to be had if you're working 2 jobs to get the rent paid and coming home shattered at 10pm, and still struggling for money.

People going on and on about health - poverty is one of the biggest causes of ill health. Living in a mouldy rented flat? Tough sh1t if you can't afford to move out. Need a specific diet to manage a health condition? Tough sh1t if you can't afford it. Totally burned out from working 2 jobs and never having any time to yourself? Forget having a holiday or a spa day.

I think it's actually kinda disrespectful to people who are struggling financially to say money means so little.

This is 100% what I mean. Coming from someone who has never struggled to someone who is struggling (my friend), it's insanely disrespectful. It's completely disregarding the very real financial concerns of someone else, coming from a place of security and privilege.

There's a guy at my work who says it a lot as well and again, I find it grating because it's coming from a place of security. He says it almost as a badge of honour about not being materialistic. But when he says that, he's taking for granted the fact that he owns his own home, has always had well-paid, secure employment, etc. It's a very flippant thing to say when you've never struggled. I'm incredibly non-materialistic, I don't value 'stuff', I shop second hand, never owned a car, etc. but I know myself that being financially comfortable is life changing.

Bringing up these examples of people working themselves into an early grave - grand but it's not really relevant, as having enough to be comfortable is all that's meant as the ideal, not being super rich.

And I've clarified that several times but people are still choosing to bang on about rich people.

And people who say they were unhappy when they had more money I think should qualify this - were they unhappy BECAUSE of having more money or were they unhappy due to other circumstances? If the latter (which I strongly suspect) then imagine that chapter of life with being broke too on top of everything else.

If people were unhappy doing a stressful job (and I can relate - a stressful job is awful) that made them good money, it's the job that caused them unhappiness, not the money. I'd take less money for less stress too - hands down. But I'd still want enough money to have no financial worries and to save something for a rainy day/enjoy occasional treats.

Exactly. I am struggling to think of a single situation which wouldn't be improved by being more financially secure, whether it's health, accommodation, food or relationships. People keep bringing up Steve Jobs as an example of how money can't buy health. Imagine dying of cancer and being too poor to keep the heating on all day and worrying about how your family are going to survive without you.

Raconteuse

Raconteuse wrote: »

And people who say they were unhappy when they had more money I think should qualify this - were they unhappy BECAUSE of having more money or were they unhappy due to other circumstances?

I was unhappy because of the associated responsibilities in making that money. I gained the work responsibilities that said I needed to work longer/harder than others, I gained the expectations that said I needed to maintain an appropriate lifestyle. And I gained the expectations that I would help extended family members who were less 'fortunate'.

I loved looking at my bank balance and seeing that healthy amount. It felt gooooooooood. I had three jobs in University because my parents couldn't afford to support both me, and my two older siblings who were also in college at the time. So.. I definitely appreciated having money.

Sure... I was unhappy for other reasons than the money itself. I was unhappy for all the responsibilities and expectations that came with earning that money.

If the latter (which I strongly suspect) then imagine that chapter of life with being broke too on top of everything else.

I've never been poor, because I've always had the skills and belief that I could make money if I wanted. I have been completely broke, and heavy in debt... but I knew with some work and time, I could (and did) get out of it.

If people were unhappy doing a stressful job (and I can relate - a stressful job is awful) that made them good money, it's the job that caused them unhappiness, not the money. I'd take less money for less stress too - hands down. But I'd still want enough money to have no financial worries and to save something for a rainy day/enjoy occasional treats.

I have no financial worries now. None. Zip. Nada. And I earn far less than what I did before... and none of the associated costs I mentioned above either. My life is pretty damn good now. In many ways, better than when I earned so much as a corporate manager..

However, what is enough money? I'm serious.

I'd say that It entirely depends on your circumstances and what you want from life. I don't have dependents so my need for money is just for myself. That makes it rather easy.. but, for others? Much much more difficult.. so what is enough money?

[I suspect It's a question without an answer.]

Lyan

Lyan wrote: »

There is a correlation between wealth and happiness, up to a certain point.

What does it mean to be happy? Everyone is likely to have a different perspective about what it entails.

aristotle25

Money isnt the only important thing, your health\family is more so, but it really is important.

With the money I earn I can fund my kids as they grow up, get educated and start their own adult lives. I can fund myself and my wifes lives until we pass away. And I can help out my parents as they get older and have less income. And I hopefully can leave money to my children when I am gone.

No one can argue against money being importnant but also you can't argue its the most important thing.

McCrack

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Read a story once about an extremely wealthy man, he came across as being deeply unhappy and lonely, unable to find a person he could share his life with, so no, I'd disagree with you there, wealth sometimes doesn't always create happiness

Would you rather be a miserable lonely bastard with money or without money?

sbsquarepants

I agree with the saying, 100%.

I'd love more money, who wouldn't - but when i look around and see what i'd have to do to get it, it looses it's appeal. There are people in my job who make double, treble what i do, but they eat sleep and shíte work. In early every morning, stay late every evening, work most weekends. They can afford holidays I can't, but when they're there they're making phone calls, answering emails etc, what is the point?

No thank you, not for me. Money is not everything!

The only important things in life are health and happiness. If making money gets in the way of either of those things, it's a negative.

Bigus

Check out Mark Boyle and the free economy .
He’s an expert on money , he was a successful irish graduate in London doing very well for himself, and then gave ALL his money away and lived without money for a few years , this was over 10 years ago.

I’m not saying to copy him , but there’s lessons to be learned.

http://www.moneylessmanifesto.org/

https://moneyless.org/living-moneyless-mark-boyle

nkl12xtw5goz70

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's kind of sickening seeing people romanticise poverty, as if not having money makes you appreciate the 'important stuff'.

Completely agreed. But from early childhood, we expose kids to fairytales and stories such as Cinderella and A Christmas Carol, which teach them to identify poverty with virtue and wealth with corruption. This enshrines a myth of "noble poverty": Cinderella is virtuous and ethical because poverty lets her see "what really matters" (love, humanity) more clearly than her materialistic step-sisters. Scrooge values only money and can't see that Bob Cratchit is actually wealthier than he in a non-material sense.

We reinforce this myth through numerous TV shows and movies. E.g., In Mary Poppins and The Sound of Music, poorer female characters teach wealthy men how to connect to "what really matters" (warmth, empathy, family).

The reality of poverty differs from the romanticized myth, of course. But Disney doesn't teach kids about that. It's easy to conclude from popular culture that the absence of wealth is somehow a good thing — when in reality poverty usually leads to people living unfulfilling lives of hardship and struggle.

mariaalice

Wesley Small Hermit wrote: »

Completely agreed. But from early childhood, we expose kids to fairytales and stories such as Cinderella and A Christmas Carol, which teach them to identify poverty with virtue and wealth with corruption. This enshrines a myth of "noble poverty": Cinderella is virtuous and ethical because poverty lets her see "what really matters" (love, humanity) more clearly than her materialistic step-sisters. Scrooge values only money and can't see that Bob Cratchit is actually wealthier than he in a non-material sense.

We reinforce this myth through numerous TV shows and movies. E.g., In Mary Poppins and The Sound of Music, poorer female characters teach wealthy men how to connect to "what really matters" (warmth, empathy, family).

The reality of poverty differs from the romanticized myth, of course. But Disney doesn't teach kids about that. It's easy to conclude from popular culture that the absence of wealth is somehow a good thing — when in reality poverty usually leads to people living unfulfilling lives of hardship and struggle.

Romanising poverty is a product of a sentmental society, I would argue that moral superiority is attached to having wealth in our society people literally believe that the middle class are better people for no other reason that the fact that they are middle class/have money.