Solving the “middle lane hoggers” problem.

_Kaiser_

irish_goat wrote: »

You don't need to move "at the very last minute". You can stay in the correct lane and move over when the road signs tell you to.

I would consider it far more important to be aware of the situation around you at all times and to adjust your driving accordingly than blindly following road signs.

If previous experience has told you that trying to get into right lane is difficult the closer you are to the exit because of heavy traffic, it simply makes sense to do that move earlier. As I said, unless he's holding up others by doing so there's no issue.

Far better to move over a bit earlier than maybe bring the entire lane to a halt while you try to belatedly get in lane - something I've seen regularly on the M50.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'd agree with you for what it's worth and as long as you're not holding up other traffic by doing so, you're causing no issue at all.

Unfortunately there are many drivers out there who are more concerned with the "letter of the law" than adapting their driving to the real-world situation in front of them.

The M50/N7 is indeed a unique case (in Ireland) in that the sheer volume of traffic and close proximity of exits mean that all lanes become driving lanes most of the time. There's nothing wrong with that, and staying in your lane is certainly preferable to making a lot of unwarranted manoevers among traffic moving at different speeds just to "keep left".

At off peak times or on the other motorways though absolutely should drivers keep left unless overtaking.

Except that if most people kept left then he would not have to do so (peak M50 times are excepted)

pablo128

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I would consider it far more important to be aware of the situation around you at all times and to adjust your driving accordingly than blindly following road signs.

If previous experience has told you that trying to get into right lane is difficult the closer you are to the exit because of heavy traffic, it simply makes sense to do that move earlier. As I said, unless he's holding up others by doing so there's no issue.

Far better to move over a bit earlier than maybe bring the entire lane to a halt while you try to belatedly get in lane - something I've seen regularly on the M50.

Clondalkin to Baldoyle exit must be 10 KMS in fairness. It's not like it's the next junction or two.

AngryLoner

A lot of drivers still seem to thing the right lane is the "fast" lane.... I often get people flashing their lights at me to move aside while doing 100km (speed limit:100km) on the third lane half a kilometre from the "Malahide" exit lane.

Then you can see them flying across the two lanes trying to make it to the M1 exit...

AngryLoner

Ah sure, it'll be a lot easier when we all have self-driving cars: just let google sort it all out while can sit back and read The Beano...

endacl

AngryLoner wrote: »

Ah sure, it'll be a lot easier when we all have self-driving cars: just let google sort it all out while can sit back and read The Beano...

Instead of driving like characters from same?

tom1ie

chooseusername wrote: »

Ok 4 lane changes then.(though driving past a car is hardly a manoeuvre )
So, multiple drivers passing illegally on the left is not only safer, but reduces congestion?
Now, that is nonsense.

Where did I say this?
I said I have to do 5 manoeuvres as I’m not allowed pass on the left as it’s illegal.
Please don’t make stuff up to suit yourself.

beauf

endacl wrote: »

People don’t assume this. People agree that these are the rules we’re all using, and a certain degree of predictability and expectability enters the system.

That doesn't negate the point I'm making.

Rules can be wrong or out of date or not always inappropriate.

Hence smart motorways. Where they change the rules depending on conditions.
Staying in lane

TickMick

Irish drivers are the worst in europe

TickMick

beauf wrote: »

Hence smart motorways. Where they change the rules depending on conditions.
Staying in lane

Paddy seems to have trouble parking between 2 white lines, smart motorways...? don't make me laff....!

tuxy

I don't spend much time driving in Dublin but was up these at the Weekend.
No amount of signalling to the car in the middle lane will get them to move.
On the M7,N7 and M50 south I have to change lane four times to overtake one car several times. I can do it safely but why should I have to.
It actually was less of an issue on the M50 as the lane on the far left is not a driving lane for large sections and is a lane for taking the next off-ramp.

Having 3 lanes on the M7 is beyond usless, the road is used as a two lane road. Massive waste of tax payers money.

On the N7 there was an arctic who wanted to get past a middle lane hogger doing about 70 km/h. He didn't want to undertake and he didn't want to move the the far right overtaking lane. He was stuck, 3 lanes and no way for him to get past.

I don't think middle lane hoggers are the most dangerous drivers on the road but they are the most clueless.

tom1ie

tuxy wrote: »

I don't spend much time driving in Dublin but was up these at the Weekend.
No amount of signalling to the car in the middle lane will get them to move.
On the M7,N7 and M50 south I have to change lane four times to overtake one car several times. I can do it safely but why should I have to.
It actually was less of an issue on the M50 as the lane on the far left is not a driving lane for large sections and is a lane for taking the next off-ramp.

Having 3 lanes on the M7 is beyond usless, the road is used as a three lane road. Massive waste of tax payers money.

On the N7 there was an arctic who wanted to get past a middle lane hogger doing about 70 km/h. He didn't want to undertake and he didn't want to move the the far right overtaking lane. He was stuck, 3 lanes and no way for him to get past.

I don't think middle lane hoggers are the most dangerous drivers on the road but they are the most clueless.

Yep. But certain posters on here will tell you the mlh’ers are doing nothing wrong!

beauf

tuxy wrote: »

...
It actually was less of an issue on the M50 as the lane on the far left is not a driving lane for large sections and is a lane for taking the next off-ramp.....

Also on the M50 lanes 2 and 3 are the correct lane for heading to the port tunnel.

People don't seem to get that its very different on a motorway with exit every 10 miles vs one with exits every mile or less.

TickMick wrote: »

Paddy seems to have trouble parking between 2 white lines, smart motorways...? don't make me laff....!

This is very true. People can't see past their own limited experience. Things like smart lanes or reversible lanes would blow their mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_lane

Did they trial this on Merrion road at some point. I've a vague memory about this.

niloc1951

tom1ie wrote: »

Yep. But certain posters on here will tell you the mlh’ers are doing nothing wrong!

When travelling the three lane section M7/N7 I usually stay in lane 1.
Lane 1 is so relaxing, I usually have it all to myself and invariable can travel faster than lane 2 which is bumper to bumper with drivers constantly dabbing their brakes.
Lane 3 I sometimes use to overtake if I catch up on something too slow in lane 1 but when finished I then prefer to return to the tranquility of lane 1

tom1ie

niloc1951 wrote: »

When travelling the three lane section M7/N7 I usually stay in lane 1.
Lane 1 is so relaxing, I usually have it all to myself and invariable can travel faster than lane 2 which is bumper to bumper with drivers constantly dabbing their brakes.
Lane 3 I sometimes use to overtake if I catch up on something too slow in lane 1 but when finished I then prefer to return to the tranquility of lane 1

Lane 1 on the n7/m7 is Ireland’s best kept secret!

Alun

niloc1951 wrote: »

Lane 1 is so relaxing, I usually have it all to myself and invariable can travel faster than lane 2 which is bumper to bumper with drivers constantly dabbing their brakes.

I'm the same, although in my experience when I'm on it, which is mostly at the weekend, lane 2 isn't usually that busy and is often travelling slightly under the limit. It's usually lane 3 that's chock-a-block with all the sudden braking and the concertina effect that that provokes.

Dr. Steve Brule

tom1ie wrote: »

Lane 1 on the n7/m7 is Ireland’s best kept secret!

Absolutely, I love it. Going 1 > 2 > 3 & then 3 > 2 > 1 to overtake a middle lane hogger is a pain though.

niloc1951

Dr. Steve Brule wrote: »

Absolutely, I love it. Going 1 > 2 > 3 & then 3 > 2 > 1 to overtake a middle lane hogger is a pain though.

If lane 1 is clear ahead I usualy VERY CAREFULLY undertake the lane 2 hogger you never know when they might wake up and start heading to where they should be :eek:

tuxy

niloc1951 wrote: »

If lane 1 is clear ahead I usualy VERY CAREFULLY undertake the lane 2 hogger you never know when they might wake up and start heading to where they should be :eek:

I can understand the temptation but it is not the safest or legal way to do it.
1 > 2 > 3 & then 3 > 2 > 1 is what these idiots are forcing law abiding drivers to do

_Kaiser_

The problem here isn't with lane hogging.. It's with drivers unable to keep up with the speed of other traffic or dawdling unnecessarily and thus presenting as a rolling roadblock.

Someone driving at or slightly above the limit in any lane is causing an issue to no one except those who are actually speeding.

The other issue is poor anticipation, and not getting into lane early enough for the exit.

As for Lane 1 on a 3 lane road being a quiet peaceful place to be.. I don't know what time some people here are on the roads but there's enough trucks, buses and dawdlers inhabiting it most of the day to mean that anyone who is capable and willing to drive at the posted limit is still frequently required to switch lanes far too regularly. Even on a standard 2 lane motorway this is an issue unless it's quiet.

People just need to stop holding up faster traffic around them unnecessarily. 100/120 km/h isn't actually a big challenge on a motorway.
If you aren't capable/willing to do it when there's no reason not to, stick to the secondary routes. If you find yourself being overtaken constantly (especially if by trucks and buses), they're not the problem - it's you!

chooseusername

tuxy wrote: »

I can understand the temptation but it is not the safest or legal way to do it.
1 > 2 > 3 & then 3 > 2 > 1 is what these idiots are forcing law abiding drivers to do

Indeed, but it is after all only two extra lane changes to do it legally;
shouldn't be a problem for a competent driver.
Complete your manoeuvres and be on your way,
don't get angry, don't try to educate them-flashing ,hooting, cutting them up etc.
After all if they were legitimately in lane 2,ie overtaking lane 1,
you would have to do the 1-2-3...3-2-1 shuffle.
An irate motorist at 120 kph is probably as dangerous as your lane hogger.

tom1ie

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The problem here isn't with lane hogging.. It's with drivers unable to keep up with the speed of other traffic or dawdling unnecessarily and thus presenting as a rolling roadblock.

Someone driving at or slightly above the limit in any lane is causing an issue to no one except those who are actually speeding.

The other issue is poor anticipation, and not getting into lane early enough for the exit.

As for Lane 1 on a 3 lane road being a quiet peaceful place to be.. I don't know what time some people here are on the roads but there's enough trucks, buses and dawdlers inhabiting it most of the day to mean that anyone who is capable and willing to drive at the posted limit is still frequently required to switch lanes far too regularly. Even on a standard 2 lane motorway this is an issue unless it's quiet.

People just need to stop holding up faster traffic around them unnecessarily. 100/120 km/h isn't actually a big challenge on a motorway.
If you aren't capable/willing to do it when there's no reason not to, stick to the secondary routes. If you find yourself being overtaken constantly (especially if by trucks and buses), they're not the problem - it's you!

Drivers do NOT have to drive at the speed limit.
The speed limit is a maximum allowable speed depending on road conditions.
Drivers can drive at 80kph on the m7 or whatever motorway perfectly legally- as long as they are driving in the appropriate lane, which is lane 1.
Mlh'ers are absolutely the problem.

tom1ie

chooseusername wrote: »

Indeed, but it is after all only two extra lane changes to do it legally;
shouldn't be a problem for a competent driver.
Complete your manoeuvres and be on your way,
don't get angry, don't try to educate them-flashing ,hooting, cutting them up etc.
After all if they were legitimately in lane 2,ie overtaking lane 1,
you would have to do the 1-2-3...3-2-1 shuffle.
An irate motorist at 120 kph is probably as dangerous as your lane hogger.

this has already been covered earlier in the thread, its 5 manoeuvres:
(1) l1-l2
(2) l2-l3
(3) overtake mlh
(4) l3-l2
(5) l2-l1
again it becomes a problem when multiple drivers have to do these 5 manoeuvres, which leads to congestion and increased risk.

_Kaiser_

tom1ie wrote: »

Drivers do NOT have to drive at the speed limit.
The speed limit is a maximum allowable speed depending on road conditions.
Drivers can drive at 80kph on the m7 or whatever motorway perfectly legally- as long as they are driving in the appropriate lane, which is lane 1.
Mlh'ers are absolutely the problem.

Rubbish.
If you are travelling at 40 km/h less than the posted limit with no reason for it and thereby causing a rolling roadblock behind you that necessitates trucks, buses and cars to move out and overtake you (thereby affecting traffic in the other lanes as well), then you are absolutely a far bigger issue on the motorway.

I think there are a lot of drivers who just don't like being overtaken and thus think "everyone else" is wrong instead! :rolleyes:

beauf

Self driving cars will solve the problem for those struggling with things like changing lanes and overtaking.

pablo128

chooseusername wrote: »

Indeed, but it is after all only two extra lane changes to do it legally;
shouldn't be a problem for a competent driver.
Complete your manoeuvres and be on your way,
don't get angry, don't try to educate them-flashing ,hooting, cutting them up etc.
After all if they were legitimately in lane 2,ie overtaking lane 1,
you would have to do the 1-2-3...3-2-1 shuffle.
An irate motorist at 120 kph is probably as dangerous as your lane hogger.

If you're in lane 1 and lane 2 is moving faster, well then you have no need to do a 2 lane overtake.

Plus that's how it's supposed to be anyway. And you just admitted a middle Lane hogger is as dangerous as an angry motorist, so you are aware they are a problem.

thegetawaycar

Can people not just learn to drive in the left lane instead of excuses, looking for reasons why it's the law etc...

If the MLH is moving slower than those in Lane 1, anyone entering the motorway can't merge as the person in L1 can't move in to L2 to make way.
We have a HUGE problem with enforcement but personal responsibility just doesn't exist in this country for so many things and **** driving is 1 of them.

mfceiling

I don't know how anyone can "sit" in the middle lane. It feels wrong when the driving lane is clear.
As I've said before you will never solve this problem because a lot of drivers are stupid and have no idea they are doing anything wrong.
I drive up the n7 last monday past and moved out of the driving lane twice to overtake slower vehicles. I comfortably went past 30 - 40 vehicles in the middle lane. Not one of them moved in after me passing them. Quick glance across at them as I pass and it's always the same....complete and utter ignorance that someone is travelling faster on both sides of them, while they stare intently ahead. I never went over 85kmh the entire journey.
At the N9 junction I moved across to the driving lane and watched as cars joining from the N9 moved across the driving lane to sit in the middle lane. That's just wrong that you join a 3 lane motorway and your 1st instinct is to get into the middle lane.

tom1ie

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Rubbish.
If you are travelling at 40 km/h less than the posted limit with no reason for it and thereby causing a rolling roadblock behind you that necessitates trucks, buses and cars to move out and overtake you (thereby affecting traffic in the other lanes as well), then you are absolutely a far bigger issue on the motorway.

I think there are a lot of drivers who just don't like being overtaken and thus think "everyone else" is wrong instead! :rolleyes:

you are completely in the wrong here.
Just because a motorway speed LIMIT sign says 120kph, that doesn't mean people cannot drive slower than that.
That's the law chief.
They should drive at slower speeds in l1 though and block up l2 or l3.

tom1ie

beauf wrote: »

Self driving cars will solve the problem for those struggling with things like changing lanes and overtaking.

likewise for those struggling to comprehend they are in the wrong by driving in l2 when l1 is free.
alas, this wont be solved for years.