Meghan & Harry: WE QUIT

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Neyite wrote: »

Yes, I remember now - googling brings up plenty of articles about it. A £6.50 plastic one. I imagine that's what normally happens and that Sophie, Beatrice, Eugenie and whoever else got lent a tiara by Granny did likewise.


If that is the case then insisting on the real one to practise would come across as a bit precious, especially if it was good enough for every other royal woman.

Definitely. I can only imagine the security around such a tiara. They probably only get the actual tiara on their wedding day. It comes across as being extremely precious!

blinding

Be right back wrote: »

Definitely. I can only imagine the security around such a tiara. They probably only get the actual tiara on their wedding day. It comes across as being extremely precious!

Perhaps Meghan’s head was Growing Exponentially Each Day :D

Muahahaha

wyrn wrote: »

I actually can see this happening. I think she's been with The Firm for so long that she (like many others) have this very rigid notion of the family. I do think either consciously or subconsciously Angela was less inclined to work with Meghan harmoniously considering the last time a divorcée American joined the royal family. I also think being a tv star and bi-racial didn't help either.

yeah I remember reading before that the Queen has something like 300 staff which is incredible to even think about, its as many employees as you would find in a medium sized factory. Of the 300 there are probably only about 20 or 30 who are working close to the Queen but many of those have been doing so for decades and see themselves as an extension of what herself wants or doesnt want. Id say the power struggles in the background with them all jockeying for favour with the Queen are something else. Add into the mix that the Queen can confer titles like OBE/MBE, etc on them and Id say the competition and one up manship is fierce.

This Angela Kelly one seems to have done well as far as upward mobility goes. Wiki tells me she is "born in Liverpool, the daughter of a Liverpool dock worker.". I doubt she curses like a docker, in fact Id say she has long since gotten rid of her Scouse accent

blinding

Muahahaha wrote: »

yeah I remember reading before that the Queen has something like 300 staff which is incredible to even think about, its as many employees as you would find in a medium sized factory. Of the 300 there are probably only about 20 or 30 who are working close to the Queen but many of those have been doing so for decades and see themselves as an extension of what herself wants or doesnt want. Id say the power struggles in the background with them all jockeying for favour with the Queen are something else. Add into the mix that the Queen can confer titles like OBE/MBE, etc on them and Id say the competition and one up manship is fierce.

This Angela Kelly one seems to have done well as far as upward mobility goes. Wiki tells me she is "born in Liverpool, the daughter of a Liverpool dock worker.". I doubt she curses like a docker, in fact Id say she has long since gotten rid of her Scouse accent

A lot like Meghan.;)

Lollipops23

Plenty of the headlines are absolute drivel, and downright nasty- but I have to say I've always gotten the impression it's more to do with the fact that she's an American and an actress. I haven't seen many comments on her appearance or ethnicity.

blinding

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Plenty of the headlines are absolute drivel, and downright nasty- but I have to say I've always gotten the impression it's more to do with the fact that she's an American and an actress. I haven't seen many comments on her appearance or ethnicity.

Or maybe off screen she is not very nice to people that she considers to be below her, or of no use to her.

I mean nobody has heard of an Actress Diva before ~ ~:D;)

irishblessing

blinding wrote: »

Meghan wanted to be Queen and not some lower rank Princess ! !

I am not sure that Royals Higher Up in Line would have been Safe with Miss Markles about.

Except this Miss Markles would have been a Prime Suspect !

What are you even on about? You'd have us thinking you know her and her innermost thoughts personally! :pac:

I'd say the Claire's tiara articles were as much a drivel as anything else. C'mon, that didn't happen. These women are wealthy, and probably have their own family tiara's. Practice what, anyway? It would just need to be fitted with their own veil and hairstyle. Ordinary women getting married have hair trials with their headpieces, pretty usual stuff. I'm sure Meghan was guided to follow normal protocol like everyone else.

Neyite

blinding wrote: »

Meghan wanted to be Queen and not some lower rank Princess ! !

I am not sure that Royals Higher Up in Line would have been Safe with Miss Markles about.

Except this Miss Markles would have been a Prime Suspect !

Miss Markle in the Ballroom with the Tiara? :pac:

If she wanted to be of equal standing she married into probably one of the few families where rank is of major importance. Even the rules about curtesying /bowing to each other is very defined and rigid.
I can imagine to someone who isn't used to it would find it very hard to adjust to.

irishblessing

Neyite wrote: »

Miss Markle in the Ballroom with the Tiara? :pac:

If she wanted to be of equal standing she married into probably one of the few families where rank is of major importance. Even the rules about curtesying /bowing to each other is very defined and rigid.
I can imagine to someone who isn't used to it would find it very hard to adjust to.

I have seen a few videos/photos of Meghan doing very lovely/deep curtsies; in fact it was compared to Kate's and Meghan's was much deeper (obv eager to show her respect) she didn't seem to find it that difficult!

blinding

Neyite wrote: »

Miss Markle in the Ballroom with the Tiara? :pac:

If she wanted to be of equal standing she married into probably one of the few families where rank is of major importance. Even the rules about curtesying /bowing to each other is very defined and rigid.
I can imagine to someone who isn't used to it would find it very hard to adjust to.

Especially if you wanted everyone bowing and curtsying to you:D;)

Mrsmum

I think they are an awful pair of self obsessed 'humanitarians'.

Neyite

irishblessing wrote: »

These women are wealthy, and probably have their own family tiara's. Practice what, anyway? It would just need to be fitted with their own veil and hairstyle. Ordinary women getting married have hair trials with their headpieces, pretty usual stuff. I'm sure Meghan was guided to follow normal protocol like everyone else.

Tiara wearing in the UK actually has a strict etiquette. Only married royals or brides can wear them to royal occasions.

Being from a non-titled family KM wouldn't have had one, hence the substitute. For curiosity I googled the others: Lady Diana had the Spencer tiara, which she wore at her wedding, Sarah Ferguson and Sophie Wessex, Beatrice & Eugenie and Meghan were lent theirs from the Queen, presumably because they wouldn't have had a family one.

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irishblessing wrote: »

What are you even on about? You'd have us thinking you know her and her innermost thoughts personally! :pac:

I'd say the Claire's tiara articles were as much a drivel as anything else. C'mon, that didn't happen. These women are wealthy, and probably have their own family tiara's. Practice what, anyway? It would just need to be fitted with their own veil and hairstyle. Ordinary women getting married have hair trials with their headpieces, pretty usual stuff. I'm sure Meghan was guided to follow normal protocol like everyone else.

Ordinary women wouldn't have access to priceless tiaras. Kate and Sophie came from ordinary backgrounds so I doubt their families had tiaras!

irishblessing

Neyite wrote: »

Tiara wearing in the UK actually has a strict etiquette. Only married royals or brides can wear them to royal occasions.

Being from a non-titled family KM wouldn't have had one, hence the substitute. For curiosity I googled the others: Lady Diana had the Spencer tiara, which she wore at her wedding, Sarah Ferguson and Sophie Wessex, Beatrice & Eugenie and Meghan were lent theirs from the Queen, presumably because they wouldn't have had a family one.

But you don't know, and we don't know what was used for practice, right?

irishblessing

Be right back wrote: »

Ordinary women wouldn't have access to priceless tiaras. Kate and Sophie came from ordinary backgrounds so I doubt their families had tiaras!

That's not at all what I said or am getting at. Ordinary women have hair trials with whatever their headpieces are for their day.

Kate and Sophie (any of them) would have needed to have hair trials with whatever they were actually going to be wearing on their day. So if they didn't have or wear their own family jewels, I'm sure they had normal hair trials with the hairpiece they wore on the actual day. Just like any other woman the world over... :rolleyes:

Neyite

irishblessing wrote: »

I have seen a few videos/photos of Meghan doing very lovely/deep curtsies; in fact it was compared to Kate's and Meghan's was much deeper (obv eager to show her respect) she didn't seem to find it that difficult!

I've a feeling I read somewhere that the depth of bows and curtsies are related to their place in the hierarchy but I can't find it now.
Similarly, they do/don't curtsey to each other depending on rank. So, H&M would curtsey & bow to William and Kate, but if Kate was on her own, they wouldn't.

blinding

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think they are an awful pair of self obsessed 'humanitarians'.

And I certainly wouldn’t like to be a Human standing in their way ! !:eek:

screamer

I don’t know what hair trials were done. But I thought MM hair looked like she’d fallen out of bed and stuck the tiara on herself on the day,....

blinding

screamer wrote: »

I don’t know what hair trials were done. But I thought MM hair looked like she’d fallen out of bed and stuck the tiara on herself on the day,....

Did the Queen do a Hair Raiser on her ? ?

irishblessing

screamer wrote: »

I don’t know what hair trials were done. But I thought MM hair looked like she’d fallen out of bed and stuck the tiara on herself on the day,....

Well aren't you lovely!

Neyite

irishblessing wrote: »

But you don't know, and we don't know what was used for practice, right?

Only in the case of Kate Middleton. We know her hairdresser practised using a cheapo plastic one.

As pieces on their own, tiara are worth millions, but because of the historical significance of most of them, they are actually priceless. There's probably strict rules as to who has access to them, what permissions they need and in what circumstances they are allowed to leave the secure vault. And when they do leave I'm sure risk assessments and security plans are done to ensure the safety of the treasure during the event and to ensure their safe return.

Be right back

irishblessing wrote: »

That's not at all what I said or am getting at. Ordinary women have hair trials with whatever their headpieces are for their day.

Kate and Sophie (any of them) would have needed to have hair trials with whatever they were actually going to be wearing on their day. So if they didn't have or wear their own family jewels, I'm sure they had normal hair trials with the hairpiece they wore on the actual day. Just like any other woman the world over... :rolleyes:

To be honest, there was probably several hair trials and with the security attached to the tiaras, I can't imagine they could have the tiaras whenever they wanted and had to make do with a plastic tiara.

irishblessing

Neyite wrote: »

Only in the case of Kate Middleton. We know her hairdresser practised using a cheapo plastic one.

As pieces on their own, tiara are worth millions, but because of the historical significance of most of them, they are actually priceless. There's probably strict rules as to who has access to them, what permissions they need and in what circumstances they are allowed to leave the secure vault. And when they do leave I'm sure risk assessments and security plans are done to ensure the safety of the treasure during the event and to ensure their safe return.

How do we know in the case of Kate, exactly?
I agree, there must be super strict rules!
According the book you mentioned, Meghan had to have an appointment so surely it was fairly strict protocol.

Neyite

irishblessing wrote: »

How do we know in the case of Kate, exactly?
I agree, there must be super strict rules!
According the book you mentioned, Meghan had to have an appointment so surely it was fairly strict protocol.

This is how we know Kate used a fake one. There were also several publications that carried the same story

The book says:

In Mr Scobie’s book, co-authored by Carolyn Durand, the situation between Harry and Ms Kelly is described as a “heated exchange”.

The book states: “What followed between the prince and Angela was a heated exchange that was far from the typical restraint expected.

“According to a source, Harry had no problem confronting the issue had on. ‘He was fed up,’ said the aide.

“In the end, Harry had to speak to his grandmother about the situation. And she got her trial.”

According to the authors, a senior Buckingham Palace aide insisted Harry was being “oversensitive” when he accused Ms Kelly of trying to make things difficult for the Duchess.

But a source close to the Duke said “nothing could convince Harry that some of the old guard at the Palace simply didn’t like Meghan and would stop at nothing to make her life difficult”.

A friend said: “Meg had flown her hairdresser over from Paris for a hair practice and they needed the tiara.

“Angela Kelly said she couldn’t come to London [from Windsor] and Harry went ballistic.

“He was furious at the treatment of his then fiancee. Such a snub.”

https://usadailyexpress.com/prince-harrys-finding-freedom-biographer-reveals-the-truth-behind-meghans-tiara-row/
That's from this site. I'm going to see if I can find direct quotes from the book on that though.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

I’m finding the idea of a kerfuffle over a tiara mortifying. Whatever the truth, this was about a tiara that a mid-30s woman was going to wear. It’s all very juvenile. The situation, not the people discussing it here.

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Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m finding the idea of a kerfuffle over a tiara mortifying. Whatever the truth, this was about a tiara that a mid-30s woman was going to wear. It’s all very juvenile. The situation, not the people discussing it here.

Exactly, apparently Harry said whatever she wants, she gets!! A grown woman!

Neyite

So, got the book open on my phone and;

The book states that Meghan didn't demand a specific tiara as press report, [there's a few paragraphs of a description of some tiaras including the one she supposedly wanted originally wanted called the Vladimer Tiara -one with emeralds- because green was incorporated as a wedding colour] but denies that she demanded it. It does say however that there "could have been talk about the ideal tiara having emeralds in it"

The appointment to select the tiara was in Feb 2018. The wedding dress designer was awaiting the choice to finalise the dress design.

The day of choosing the tiara is usually a special moment for the queen, the book says and the queen usually has an idea of which ones she wants to offer. The exception to previous appointments of this nature was that this time Harry tagged along. The book explains that they went down forty ft in an elevator to a large vault where 5 tiaras had been assembled (they've got detachable jewels etc) for display. [there's a bit more paragraphs about how unused to tiaras Meghan would have been]
The book describes the vault room as 150ft long and well lit showroom for Queens hundreds of pieces of jewellery. It says that the Crown Jeweller is normally on hand but withdraws for this special day for the Queen and recipient to choose the tiara, assisted by the Queen's dresser AK. The book then goes on to talk about about her trying on the various ones, with AK explaining different ways to wear it /hold it in place etc and making her nod her head etc with it on. It's described as a special day and that the queen and AK fully agreed with MM's choice of tiara.

Then the next page says that the hairdresser flew from NY to London to do a hair trial using the chosen tiara in late March.

It says "the pair had hoped to visit Buck Palace to meet AK who would have handled the tiara as she did at the earlier appointment. Except no matter how many requests were sent by Kensington palace, the queen's dresser didn't respond. After several failed attempts AK's availability remained unknown and Harry was furious. It does say that at the first hair trial, AK was busy at Windsor where the queen was based for Easter. It says that Harry got furious and had 'a heated' discussion with AK. But the appointment failed to materialise. In the end Harry had to speak to his grandmother about the situation. And she got her tiara"

Mrsmum

The right way to do it was to book the appointment to borrow the tiara for the trial, then with the appointment secured, fly over the hairdresser (imagine needing a hairdresser to be flown from NY), not fly over the hairdresser and then expect AK and probably all sorts of security personnel to make themselves available when you click your fingers.

irishblessing

Mrsmum wrote: »

The right way to do it was to book the appointment to borrow the tiara for the trial, then with the appointment secured, fly over the hairdresser (imagine needing a hairdresser to be flown from NY), not fly over the hairdresser and then expect AK and probably all sorts of security personnel to make themselves available when you click your fingers.

Eh... maybe that's how it actually happened?
Or- maybe the right way is to work with an actual human's schedule, and aim to borrow an inanimate (albeit priceless) piece of metal when it works best for them. :pac:
No one here knows the tiara borrowing process. Maybe it's simply set in a room and helped in/out of the case (or whatever it usually sits in) by a member of staff (maybe the Principal Jewel Keeper, lol) for the hairdresser and probably dressmaker (for the veil part) to work with. The availability of the tiara has to be on the easier end. It's in a castle, and only brought out to be around very trusted members of the family. It had to go on her head morning of too FFS- it was hardly surrounded by security guards to prevent a jewel thief snatching it off her head or impossible to have it ready on the morning. They need to work with the bride and her people, not the other way round.

So much begrudgery here, good god!

Edit to add: just read Neyite's post.. exactly. Sounds like there's an established process, all went well first as no one would dare mess around the Queen and she was there, it was a special day, etc etc.

So they follow a process and suddenly just the process just stops working? And only after the Queen isn't a direct part of it? Totally unprofessional on AK's end.

irishblessing

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I’m finding the idea of a kerfuffle over a tiara mortifying. Whatever the truth, this was about a tiara that a mid-30s woman was going to wear. It’s all very juvenile. The situation, not the people discussing it here.

I'm sure that's why Prince Harry was so P'd off. What is the ridiculous problem over such a minor thing, with an established process!