Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Quin_Dub

Manic Moran wrote: »

There’s no accounting for Darwinism. Sure, weren’t people eating tide pods a while ago? Or do you think that we should abandon any form of personal responsibility for our actions? Common bloody sense should tell you that aquarium additive isn’t likely good for you, even if you can’t tell the difference between chloroquine and chloroquine phosphate.

It’s like one doctor on TV saying that nitroglycerin is good for some heart conditions (it is) and then some idiot goes and blows himself up, thus the doctor is responsible for the death. He isn’t.

Christy42 wrote: »

Should we abandon all personal responsibility for our words. They have an effect. We can either stick out heads in the sand and presume that they don't or we can deal with reality.

There is a reason for the Queen's speech or Leo's speeches. They weren't medical advise but they are aware that words have an effect. If the president tells you to stay in, more people will stay in. Similar for governer/mayor/queen etc. If someone tells you to take a drug people are going to think about it. They are scared and quite frankly you don't have a good enough education system for people to figure this out.

There is a reason all the drug ads (which are really weird btw) use the wording ask your doctor if this is right for you. Instead of ah go take it. Just give it a go sure why not.

If they did they would be ripped off the air incredibly quickly for this very reason.

As for the example. Depends on what the doctor said. If he said it like you phrase then yeah he has some culpability (as does the idiot blowing himself up there are two involved). If he says as an an additive and when advised by a doctor then he is being clear about what he means. I think most doctors are aware that they need to be clear and cautious about how they word things to patients for this reason.

His words absolutely matter - Of course the people that ingested the fish tank cleaner bear huge responsibility but that's just one example.

How about when the CDC announced the recommendation that people should wear masks when outside in Public and Trump said "It's a recommendation , but I'm not going to do it as it wouldn't look good" ?

How many people will now ignore that recommendation from the CDC because "The President said he wasn't going to do it" ??

Even if he never planned to wear a mask , why say it out loud on National television as part of a statement announcing that people should wear masks??

He's supposed to set the example for others to follow , he's supposed to be their leader.

What example are they getting from him? - Ignore the guidance of the experts and do what you "feel" is right for you based on nothing.

He's a self absorbed Imbecile.

Igotadose

Quin_Dub wrote: »

His words absolutely matter - Of course the people that ingested the fish tank cleaner bear huge responsibility but that's just one example.

How about when the CDC announced the recommendation that people should wear masks when outside in Public and Trump said "It's a recommendation , but I'm not going to do it as it wouldn't look good" ?

Or the moronic Governor of Iowa who won't implement a lockdown because she `thinks' Dr. Fauci doesn't have the best information. And as far as she's concerned, she's doing better than other states. For now. It's a competition, amirite?

And... why wouldn't she have confidence in a world-class epidemiologist with decades of experience? Because the #IMPOTUS refuses to believe science. And says nonsense like this:
"I leave it up to the governors. The governors know what they're doing," he said. "They've been doing a great job. I guess we're close to 90 per cent anyway. And the states that we're talking about are not in jeopardy."

TomOnBoard

Manic Moran wrote: »

There’s no accounting for Darwinism. Sure, weren’t people eating tide pods a while ago? Or do you think that we should abandon any form of personal responsibility for our actions? Common bloody sense should tell you that aquarium additive isn’t likely good for you, even if you can’t tell the difference between chloroquine and chloroquine phosphate.

It’s like one doctor on TV saying that nitroglycerin is good for some heart conditions (it is) and then some idiot goes and blows himself up, thus the doctor is responsible for the death. He isn’t.

Now you're having a laugh!

The nitroglycerine doctor analogy is exactly why Trump and his cronies should STFU about chloroquine.. In the nitroglycerine case, its a qualified medical doctor, who swore an oath "First, do no harm". In the chloroquine case, it's a gang of corrupt carbetbaggers with absolutely NO medical qualifications telling ppl. to "Go on... Try it.. What do you have to lose? " This is the EXACT type of language used by the pusher at the school gates, and indeed probably used by Jim Jones as he handed his poison cocktail out to his cult in Guiana!

And then, as if to compound his sin, he shuts the presser down because Fauci was asked his opinion! Lunatic stuff, heard by EVERY ONE of his cult followers across the country, who are listening to Trump as though he is the Second Coming, and hanging on his every word, and much less invested in listening to any more local advise if it disagrees with him.

So, your stance on this whole matter of irrelevance or otherwise of Trump's pronouncements vs local, county or state relevance is simply wrong! And I believe that, as an educated and articulate person, you know full well it is wrong. That pushes your posting into the realm of propaganda in support of an objective only you fully know, but somebody us are beginning to see for what it is.

Propaganda, even when written by a velvet-gloved hand is still propaganda. No-one needs any more propaganda in support of a snake oil salesman during a time when hundreds of thousands will die from Covid-19.

Lwaker.

Trump is struggling

Local governance popping up everywhere during a crisis

Drumpot

Manic Moran wrote: »

There’s no accounting for Darwinism. Sure, weren’t people eating tide pods a while ago? Or do you think that we should abandon any form of personal responsibility for our actions? Common bloody sense should tell you that aquarium additive isn’t likely good for you, even if you can’t tell the difference between chloroquine and chloroquine phosphate.

It’s like one doctor on TV saying that nitroglycerin is good for some heart conditions (it is) and then some idiot goes and blows himself up, thus the doctor is responsible for the death. He isn’t.

Listening to anything Trump says or recommends is encouraging a speed up of Darwinism. I am not sure he could be handling this crisis worse if he tried. Maybe if he called it a hoax... Or said there was only a few people in the country infected and it was all gonna be fine in a few days. Or if he said it will be grand by Easter.... Or if he constantly contradicted medical experts. Or gave out bad medical advice and professed there’s prob a cure when there wasnt.... I’m sure I’m missing a lot of other retarded stuff that he’s done or said.

Every time he’s at these regular briefings He looks like somebody who won a competition to be president for a week. :pac:

valoren

Lee Fierro died yesterday from Covid-19 related complications. She was 91 and was famous as Mrs Kintner from Jaws. We all remember the scene where she is grief stricken and slaps Chief Brody because despite knowing about a shark in the water he let the beaches stay open and her son was killed by the shark. I can't help but feel that Brody, by analogy represents some state governors who discovered a problem, who intuitively realised they needed expert advice, who went about actively getting prepared to warn the public, while Hooper represents the scientific community providing unbiased facts and best practice guidance while Trump represents Mayor Larry Vaughn who undermines their efforts and stubbornly refuses to listen and is bent on keeping the beaches open explicitly to generate local income.

It was Vaughn who was minimising the problem from the get go, who conspired to present the first victim as being involved in a "boating accident" despite Hooper, an expert, contradicting it but it is Vaughn who was the ultimate authority in deciding if the beaches could be closed and who said he acted in "the town's best interests". One person would have died if he had listened to the experts and used his authority to protect locals yet Vaughn only seemed concerned about the impact this would have on the local economy (and on him politically) and belligerently and frustratingly refused to close them. It's not a great white shark, it's only a barracuda! It’s a rumour, a hoax! That's why Kintner's son died but it was Brody who bore the brunt of Mrs Kintner’s blame and anger.

Even after Kitner's son dies, Vaughn is still acting like a braggadocio on local media saying "I’m pleased and happy to repeat the news that we have in fact caught and killed a large predator that supposedly injured some bathers. But as you can see, it’s a beautiful day, the beaches are opened, and people are having a wonderful time" while a 25 foot Great White stalks bathers in the water directly behind him. He even encourages wary would be bathers to go into the water. Nothing to worry about (except a ravenously hungry three tonne behemoth). It is only when his false front is exposed in front of that packed beach does he accept the reality of the situation, the inevitability of economic loss and then he slinks away after authorising a $10,000 fee to let the professionals take care of the problem.

Interestingly, in spite of Vaughn's spectacular mismanagement which lead to six deaths instead of one, he is still the Mayor in the sequel. Like Trump, there was nothing he could have done to prevent a Great White deciding to swim into Amity’s waters. He, and his coterie of acolytes, could have chosen to listen to Hooper telling them it was a Great White and not a lesser predator like “the flu” which would swim away when the waters got hotter later that year. If Vaughn had left his ego at the door and actually listened to those tasked with serving and protecting and took on board what professionals said then only one person would likely have died beyond some idiots who might have decided to go swimming on closed beaches. I guess Trump will platform on a similar basis heading into November i.e. I signed the $10,000 voucher which was needed to kill the shark, only 6 people died when it could have been scores if I didn't take decisive action. His only hope now for re-election is if the electorate decides to direct their slap at something else (Chy-na, Democratic Governors, US Multinationals) instead of at Trump, the “Mayor of Shark City” who had ultimate authority to protect them.

Timberrrrrrrr

Holy wall of text batman!

signostic

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Holy wall of text batman!

the most beautiful wall the world has ever seen :pac:

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

He is important.

But he is important because of his position and powers as ascribed to him in the Constitution. He controls the military. He engages in international treaties. He signs or vetoes laws which affect interstate commerce, which includes setting minimum standards for things (He has vetoed six things, all to do with the international stage) And so on. Most anything else is a supporting function for the States (Tenth Amendment), be it law enforcement, road construction or medical advisory.

Running your local hospital is not his problem. St. Vincent’s can be traced up through the HSE to the Taoiseach. University Hospital (my local public one) has a line traced up to the County Commisioners. Not even the State. And that applies to everything from police services to garbage collection. At the state and below level, he doesn’t run anything, neither does any federal agency.

Yes on his being important. We know he's not an absolute dummy. Its just that your words about his spoken words in the current situation made it appear it was your opinion that his words did not carry any weight to affect how others in the US thought or acted, they having heard his words.

Yes, we know and accept there are things run at state level which the federal Govt has neither hand, act nor part in. That's the same across most of the world, incl Ireland, where local matters are best left to local or county Govt, and not central Govt.

What do you think is the percentage across the US population who nowadays would say: shurrup, the president is speaking... as against those who say: jeez, not him again? I've noted your opinion that he is not right on all occasions.

duploelabs

Manic Moran wrote: »

There’s no accounting for Darwinism. Sure, weren’t people eating tide pods a while ago? Or do you think that we should abandon any form of personal responsibility for our actions? Common bloody sense should tell you that aquarium additive isn’t likely good for you, even if you can’t tell the difference between chloroquine and chloroquine phosphate.

It’s like one doctor on TV saying that nitroglycerin is good for some heart conditions (it is) and then some idiot goes and blows himself up, thus the doctor is responsible for the death. He isn’t.

There's no accounting?? How about he doesn't spout unfounded bull and then no one dies. Seems a fair trade right?

Frank Bullitt

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Holy wall of text batman!

Mexico paid for this one though.

eire4

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Now you're having a laugh!

The nitroglycerine doctor analogy is exactly why Trump and his cronies should STFU about chloroquine.. In the nitroglycerine case, its a qualified medical doctor, who swore an oath "First, do no harm". In the chloroquine case, it's a gang of corrupt carbetbaggers with absolutely NO medical qualifications telling ppl. to "Go on... Try it.. What do you have to lose? " This is the EXACT type of language used by the pusher at the school gates, and indeed probably used by Jim Jones as he handed his poison cocktail out to his cult in Guiana!

And then, as if to compound his sin, he shuts the presser down because Fauci was asked his opinion! Lunatic stuff, heard by EVERY ONE of his cult followers across the country, who are listening to Trump as though he is the Second Coming, and hanging on his every word, and much less invested in listening to any more local advise if it disagrees with him.

So, your stance on this whole matter of irrelevance or otherwise of Trump's pronouncements vs local, county or state relevance is simply wrong! And I believe that, as an educated and articulate person, you know full well it is wrong. That pushes your posting into the realm of propaganda in support of an objective only you fully know, but somebody us are beginning to see for what it is.

Propaganda, even when written by a velvet-gloved hand is still propaganda. No-one needs any more propaganda in support of a snake oil salesman during a time when hundreds of thousands will die from Covid-19.

I have always said that when you have people in positions of leadership who spout out nonsense it is a certainty there will be consequences. There is no question whatsoever that what you say above about the presidents various statements during his briefings is the proverbial nail on the head.

It reminds me of when Anderson Cooper went off on the Presidents apologist Jeffrey Lord and said something along the lines of if the President took a sh--t on the desk you would defend it.

Itssoeasy

Good press briefing from governor Andrew cuomo again. It was clear and informative and hopefully the people of the state of New York don't come away confused/ frightened because of unclear information unlike the president.

duploelabs

Well whaddyaknow

"It just so happens that one of the largest manufacturers of the drug (hydroxychloroquine), Novartis, previously paid Trump’s now-incarcerated former personal attorney Michael Cohen more than $1 million for healthcare policy insight following Trump’s election in 2016."

https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/major-producer-of-hydroxychloroquine-once-paid-michael-cohen-hefty-sum-for-access-to-trump/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

aloyisious

This is probably a confirmation that the virus COULD HAVE crossed from some other species to humans in Wuhan. A 4-year old Tiger in the Bronx Zoo has tested positive for Covid-19, and several other tigers and lions there have been seen to have respiration problems. The source of the infection is thought to be an asymptomatic zoo keeper there.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/tiger-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-at-new-york-s-bronx-zoo-20200406-p54hcq.html

eire4

duploelabs wrote: »

Well whaddyaknow

"It just so happens that one of the largest manufacturers of the drug (hydroxychloroquine), Novartis, previously paid Trump’s now-incarcerated former personal attorney Michael Cohen more than $1 million for healthcare policy insight following Trump’s election in 2016."

https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/major-producer-of-hydroxychloroquine-once-paid-michael-cohen-hefty-sum-for-access-to-trump/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Starts to make sense now why he has kept banging this drum.

StringerBell

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Good press briefing from governor Andrew cuomo again. It was clear and informative and hopefully the people of the state of New York don't come away confused/ frightened because of unclear information unlike the president.

Isn't it really odd how someones handling of and behaviour during a crisis can change how you feel about them? I have never been particularly fond of Andrew Cuomo, the reasons would be for another thread probably but whatever, how he has dealt with this so far has brought me round to a position of going "You know what, maybe I have this guy pegged wrong, or maybe he isn't that bad" etc

If only Trump had that kind of self awareness, to use this crisis to improve his own public image, alas of course he hasn't.

Quin_Dub

StringerBell wrote: »

Isn't it really odd how someones handling of and behaviour during a crisis can change how you feel about them? I have never been particularly fond of Andrew Cuomo, the reasons would be for another thread probably but whatever, how he has dealt with this so far has brought me round to a position of going "You know what, maybe I have this guy pegged wrong, or maybe he isn't that bad" etc

If only Trump had that kind of self awareness, to use this crisis to improve his own public image, alas of course he hasn't.

Here's the thing about Cuomo - He's a political professional , from a family of political professionals.

You might not like his particular brand of politics or his personality , but he gets the job done effectively and professionally.

In normal times, that might be driving an agenda that you might individually disagree with but in times like this he goes about his business like a professional and you can be fairly confident that he's doing things for generally the right reasons.

None of these things can be said of Trump - He is not a professional (at anything) and his only concern is making himself look and feel good (in his own mind). At no point in time could you feel that he is doing something for the greater good or for the benefit of someone other than himself.

Maybe every now and again something he does might coincidentally align with something you want , but it's by chance only.

salmocab

StringerBell wrote: »

Isn't it really odd how someones handling of and behaviour during a crisis can change how you feel about them? I have never been particularly fond of Andrew Cuomo, the reasons would be for another thread probably but whatever, how he has dealt with this so far has brought me round to a position of going "You know what, maybe I have this guy pegged wrong, or maybe he isn't that bad" etc

If only Trump had that kind of self awareness, to use this crisis to improve his own public image, alas of course he hasn't.

Proper politicians can stand up and do the right thing, I don’t like FG politics but so far they’ve done good on this and LV has been a leader. Politics is very often far too much about parties or ideologies but at times like this it should be able to raise itself above that. Trump certainly can’t if it’s not about him he’ll go out of his way to make it about him. He doesn’t give a fiddlers about citizens he only cares that he’ll be able to claim he did the best job anyone could have done, the difference between him and most leaders will be they will mostly have done the best they can and he’ll simply say he did.

StringerBell

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Here's the thing about Cuomo - He's a political professional , from a family of political professionals.

You might not like his particular brand of politics or his personality , but he gets the job done effectively and professionally.

In normal times, that might be driving an agenda that you might individually disagree with but in times like this he goes about his business like a professional and you can be fairly confident that he's doing things for generally the right reasons.

None of these things can be said of Trump - He is not a professional (at anything) and his only concern is making himself look and feel good (in his own mind). At no point in time could you feel that he is doing something for the greater good or for the benefit of someone other than himself.

Maybe every now and again something he does might coincidentally align with something you want , but it's by chance only.

Absolutely, agree with pretty much everything in this.

pixelburp

duploelabs wrote: »

Well whaddyaknow

"It just so happens that one of the largest manufacturers of the drug (hydroxychloroquine), Novartis, previously paid Trump’s now-incarcerated former personal attorney Michael Cohen more than $1 million for healthcare policy insight following Trump’s election in 2016."

https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/major-producer-of-hydroxychloroquine-once-paid-michael-cohen-hefty-sum-for-access-to-trump/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This should be a shock to precisely nobody. I mean, there was a solid 50/50 chance it was either ignorant braggadocio or boilerplate corruption. The needle could have swung either way really. Nothing will come of it of course because the Sunk Cost is too deep, but sad to think of all those suffering because of this behaviour.

BonnieSituation

duploelabs wrote: »

Well whaddyaknow

"It just so happens that one of the largest manufacturers of the drug (hydroxychloroquine), Novartis, previously paid Trump’s now-incarcerated former personal attorney Michael Cohen more than $1 million for healthcare policy insight following Trump’s election in 2016."

https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/major-producer-of-hydroxychloroquine-once-paid-michael-cohen-hefty-sum-for-access-to-trump/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

There was a "Last Week Tonight" (LWT) in 2018 dedicated to these Cohen contacts. And basically, Novartis' reaction on meeting Cohen was to basically let him off and leave him alone as he was useless to them.

I wouldn't be too sure just how much this has to do with why Trump is pushing HCQ.

As an aside, I watched all 30 LWT from 2018 over the last couple of weeks and it really is a cracker even after the fact. Highly recommended to just re-watch them.

aloyisious

Peter Navarro, Dons trade advisor in the white house disputed Dr Faucis advice on chloroquine at the meeting there last night before Dons appearance on TV. It might help to explain Dons mention of chloroquine on TV and whether [as I understand it] Dr Fauci was literally sidelined at the event. Peter Navarro said on a TV interview screened by CNN that while he's not a doctor, he has a PhD and can work things out for himself.

Thargor

If chloroquine did anything we'd know about it, the Chinese will have thrown the kitchen sink at this, up to and including involuntary human trials on thousands of subjects, the obsession of the Trump administration and their propaganda stooges with chloroquine is absolutely baffling, reminds me of Alex jones pausing in the middle of his screaming to try and shill some food supplements.

Water John

Their is anecdotal info that is does help, NY seems to be also of similar opinion.
Trump knew he was going down the swanee and latched onto anything that he could grab on to.

listermint

Water John wrote: »

Their is anecdotal info that is does help, NY seems to be also of similar opinion.
Trump knew he was going down the swanee and latched onto anything that he could grab on to.

Anecdotal information is not evidence.

This is absymal dangerous advice.

PropJoe10

Water John wrote: »

Their is anecdotal info that is does help, NY seems to be also of similar opinion.
Trump knew he was going down the swanee and latched onto anything that he could grab on to.

The President of the United States should only be recommending treatments based on actual clinical testing and medical advice, not on his "hunches". It's incredibly dangerous for him to be talking about this like he is. As people keep saying, the words of the POTUS matter. People will listen, even to this president.

banie01

So Trump just congratulated one of his generals on a great job...
Then said you have 4 stars, doesn't that mean great job!

Well maybe if any of Don's hotels were actually worth a 4/5 star then he'd know :P

Headshot

Happy that CNN arent showing the start of Trumps propaganda speech

banie01

Headshot wrote: »

Happy that CNN arent showing the start of Trumps propaganda speech

I caught it on Bloomberg...