One sided intimacy

Millionaire only not

appledrop wrote: »

Op I think some people here on this thread have been very unfair to you.

We all have different types of relationships + people shouldn't make judgements on who should do what chores etc. Intimacy is an important part of a marriage.

You really need to get counselling. You have both tried to communicate to each other your issues but it doesn't seem to be working out for either of you.

I have just watched Marriage Story + its heartbreaking what happens when a couple with a child separate. Get her to watch this with you if she wont agree to counselling + it might be the wake up call she needs to fight for her marriage.

Counselling is waste of time if people don’t want to make an effort!
Watching films what separation can do to a child is like being a bully , trying to make a person feel bad about leaving for sake of others !
Not saying u wouldn’t do anything fr ur child there is times u have to draw a line in the sand !

worded

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Counselling is waste of time if people don’t want to make an effort!
Watching films what separation can do to a child is like being a bully , trying to make a person feel bad about leaving for sake of others !
Not saying u wouldn’t do anything fr ur child there is times u have to draw a line in the sand !

Everyone looses in a breakup with a kid.
The mom, the dad but mostly the kid

Anything is worth a shot, you can’t speak for the OPs OH mental state.

You don’t know the relationship dynamic

She may need therapy, they probably both do.

Never say never

Try everything OP and if it doesn’t work out you know in your heart you have tried everything.

worded

Searched for “entire libido gone permanently after child birth” for the OP but just got these ....

OP did you say everything changed after e child arrived?

This is an interesting read but for most couples things resolve after 6 months.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/healthandlife/parenting/sex-after-baby-groundbreaking-research-on-what-happens-in-the-bedroom-after-birth-380274.html

And more relevant this:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-baby-came-but-the-sex-went-many-marriages-fail-in-the-18-months-after-childbirth-often-because-1531894.html

leggo

oiiiiii wrote: »

Tara- I'm not looking for an exchange-sex for housework. I don't expect anything in return for anything else. I've always believed myself to be a modern husband, I do most of the cooking for example, I've tried harder in response to the reasons she gave, despite already feeling as though I was pulling my weight.

I think people are jumping on the housework thing and assuming I'm the Bull McCabe. My wife did give other reasons which nobody has mentioned since my first post.

For the people saying that this is the norm, is it really?
Once in five years she has initiated things.

OP people are picking up on the mammying comment because, while yes the tiredness and so on may be more of a superficial excuse to fob off a difficult conversation, that comment in itself is quite cutting and revealing. It’s the type of thing you don’t say unless you mean it, like telling someone they’re bad in bed or you’re not attracted to them anymore. It’s a difficult thing to say to someone and, from what you describe, it doesn’t sound like it was said in spite or anything so it’s something she almost definitely meant.

You’re just immediately dismissing this out of hand, like you literally said that. You’re dismissing any comment that doesn’t say that you’re right and she’s wrong. You’re getting great feedback here but you seem to be unable to take it on board. With regards to mammying, it’s not just a case of doing a few more bits around the home. When I was a kid living at home, my Mam would ask me to help out a bit more and I would and it wouldn’t change the fact that she was still my mother. The message isn’t “You need to do more chores”, it’s “I no longer view you as an attractive equal and instead someone dependent on me like a child.” That could be for a variety of reasons: maybe you’re the stereotypical Irish lad looking for a second Mammy to marry and you don’t realise it because that’s who you’ve always been, or maybe she’s just permanently in Mammy mode and sees everyone that way because it’s difficult to switch off.

That’s the issue you need to address and she’s made it clear but you don’t want to hear it. She wants a partner, a 50-50 teammate, someone who can take the load off and look after her so she can feel like the dependent one now and again. That’s the person she’ll have sex with and she’s saying that’s not how she sees you. Even you begging for sex and trying to logically convince her instead of just being a person she naturally wants to **** is symbolic of that. And you can disagree all you like but good luck trying to logically change feelings this core. I’m not even saying her feelings are fair, I’m not there and don’t know the situation, but it’s how she feels so one way or another you need to acknowledge and deal with that or you’ll just keep going around in this circle for the rest of your life.

pwurple

OP, you've got some great responses in here, but just to add in something else, you haven't mentioned how young your youngest child it. It can take up to 3 years post-pregnancy for women's hormones to stabilise again. The WHO recommendation for pregnancy spacing is 3 years for health of mother. If she has had pregnancies with shorter gaps than that, she may need some more health and recovery time before she is feeling back to 'herself'. Women are all different of course, but the recovery time is something some guys don't always realise.

This time with very young children is exhausting, emotionally, physically, mentally. If you have toddlers, they are very needy. I know when mine were small, they almost constantly wanted to be in my arms, feeding, or holding my hand, it felt like they were touching me constantly. Especially if they had a cold or were cranky. I sometimes just wanted to NOT be touched and have my own body to myself when they were asleep.

To be honest, it sounds like she is making an effort. You said when sex is interrupted by children waking up, she goes to attend to the child, and then comes back to you again in the morning to continue again. That's quite positive. I think give it some time, let the children become less of a demand over time, be kind to eachother and she'll come back more to being herself.

tara73

Econometrics wrote: »

What evidence is there that she is using him as a "Mammy substitute"?

He does chores and has a full time job, is she using him as a "Daddy substitute"?

read his first post, all in there!

XsApollo

Wine and Dine her , do the washing, cooking , cleaning and bring her flowers once in a while so you can get some intimacy with your partner.
Sure that will work wonders for your self esteem.

It’s not normal and in reality nothing is normal.
Holding a piece of the relationship away from the other is not on and somehow seems to be ok if it’s a sexual thing.
How would she feel if you decided to not talk to her anymore because you were tired or had a headache or whatever other excuse you can come up with, I’m sure if your sexual relationship was ok and you acted like the above then sex would be off the table.
It’s not going to get better either you have 2 choices accept it and continue as you are or leave and find someone that makes you happy.

I was in the same boat as yourself, and I fixed every excuse that was made until the last thing that could be said was she did not want to.

woohoo!!!

It really sounds like she's stuck in a rut and until that is solved, then I think there will be problems in your relationship. She needs to go back to work, go and enjoy hobbies. Being stuck in the house isn't working for her, she likely resents it and is in no mood for intimacy with anyone as a result.

Changes you've made re more chores, keep it up. And keep the cleaner. We all take each other for granted so I think you need also to back off a bit, do your own hobbies also. She doesn't want to Manny you, nor should you daddy her and that's why I suggest for her to go back to work and hobbies, get out of the house and mix.

Thespoofer

Thespoofer wrote: »

Can't see this working tbh.

It's worth a try... Being open and honest with her and being as good a husband as he can be isn't working.

XsApollo

XsApollo wrote: »

Wine and Dine her , do the washing, cooking , cleaning and bring her flowers once in a while so you can get some intimacy with your partner.
Sure that will work wonders for your self esteem.

It’s not normal and in reality nothing is normal.
Holding a piece of the relationship away from the other is not on and somehow seems to be ok if it’s a sexual thing.
/QUOTE]

He could keep most of his money for himself. After all if people can do what they feel like in a marriage it should be OK for him to do that right?

She has a housekeeper FFS... and one kid, while the op works all day and helps at home too and she's the one too tired? Come on. Sounds like someone is spoiled and has a huge sense of entitlement and needs a wake up call.

qwerty13

I don’t feel there’s any point in posting counter options to quite a few posters that seem to be really determined to operate on a ‘Pick up “Artist”’ mode.

Their opinions make me ill. “Treat them badly and also try it on with other women”. I would flag / draw attention to individual posts if it were just that - but there’s a rash of such posts on this thread lately. And PI and RI in general. Not sure how to flag that to Mods, except to say that there’s some quite nasty ‘treat them mean and they’ll cop on’ views that keep coming up over and over lately. It’s really pretty nasty.

I can flag individual posts, but I’ve never seen such a depressing set of posts advocating to treat women like cr*p as I have lately on PI / RI boards. That’s why I’m posting this, to draw attention to it as a whole

osarusan

OP, I'm going to go against the grain somewhat because I don't agree with a majority of what has been said on this thread, and I don't think it has been helpful advice, by and large.

People have picked up on the 'mammying' thing because it's easy to pick at, but I think that they ignore other things you have mentioned.

There was a time when your wife was enthusiastic and excited about having, and initiating, sex with you. I think the key question here is whether your wife is genuine about rekindling your sex life, whether she actually 'wants to want you again', as you put it.

And when I read some of the things she has said, such as 'all her friends say they never have sex anymore either so it's not just us' and "I hope I'm not wrecked in the morning now" after having sex, and things she has done, such as refusing therapy, I don't see somebody who actually wants to have a better sex life with you, and wants to want you again.

Posters on here are often told to 'go with your gut' and if you think that the 'mammying' factor is by no means the whole issue here, you should go with that.

Persiancowboy

There seems to be a prevailing view here that it's the Op's fault his wife is no longer interested in initiating or having sex with him.....do more housework, go to the gym and lose a few pounds etc.

Wonder what the reaction would be if the Op was a woman and was being advised to lose weight in the same circumstances?

And since when is sex meant to be a reward in a marriage?

Anyone who is a regular browser or contributor to threads in the Personal Issues forum will know that the issue of lack of intimacy in marriage and relationships is one of the most common themes that people post about. It seems to be widespread and is a hugely difficult problem to deal with.

Sex and intimacy are fundamental to any relationship between 2 people...if it is withdrawn or is absent it is very difficult for the relationship to survive....you stop being lovers and instead are at best companions.

Glib suggestions about joining a gym or washing his wife's car are not the answers to the problems in this relationship. Honesty on both sides and the assistance of a professional counselor sound like a good place to start.

leggo

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Wonder what the reaction would be if the Op was a woman and was being advised to lose weight in the same circumstances?

And since when is sex meant to be a reward in a marriage?

Christ, not every conversation has to become a gender war.

The OP isn’t getting questioned because he has a penis, that’s an absolutely ridiculous conclusion to draw. The OP is getting questioned because, in his OP, he listed a bunch of valid reasons people have for not wanting sex that he’d specifically been given and then, in the next sentence, immediately dismissed all of them as untrue. People who are so dismissive when receiving feedback are usually that way because they have difficulty accepting criticism or any suggestion they could’ve handled things differently.

This is pertinent because this is HIS issue and HE wants to change it, and the only person’s behaviour he can control is his own. So if he wants change it’ll be him who has to do something to spark that change and learning to accept feedback and a cut of responsibility for the predicament he’s ended up in his life would be a good start. It’s nice to believe when we end up in a **** life situation that we were all perfect, innocent passengers who never did anything wrong, but it’s rarely the case and that stubborn belief does nothing whatsoever to improve the situation.

wiggle16

Mod warning:

I don't want to see any further arguments/comments along the lines of "if OP were a woman/not a man/a spatula then XYZ would be the answer given" - it's not helpful, it's bad form and it shows a disregard for the OP's issue in favour of an agenda.

Posters are requested to give the OP constructive advice he can use, specific to his situation, without reference to hypothetical scenarios. PI is not about consensus and you don't have to argue with others' advice to enforce your own.

Thanks

AulWan

matthewmurdock wrote: »

From your most recent response, which confirmed my suspicions and backed up everything I was arguing, the course of action for you should be as follows, seeing as you want to stay with her no matter what.

Get back to the gym. Find a plan and stick to it. Eat properly and get back into shape. Get yourself a personal trainer if you have to. The important part is that you will look better, feel better and be dedicated. She will find these things more attractive.

Secondly, find a new hobby. Commit to it and try and be consistent with it. Have something you are passionate about, for you, away from the marriage.

Lastly, make yourself a little less available. I'm not advocating abandoning your marital responsibilities, but have plans maybe 3-4 nights a month where previously you wouldn't. These plans should not include your wife.

Lastly, do not initiate sex again. Cuddle, kiss whatever if you want. Have fun and love each other but do not initiate sex. Only have sex if she initiates for the near future.

Once you do all these things, you'll have so much going on that the intimacy won't actually be a big deal for you anymore. You'll be improving yourself in every way, with no expectation of anything from her.

What will happen as a result of all this is, and I guarantee it, that she will see her husband as someone who has lots going on, as someone who is improving himself physically, as someone who is dedicated and as someone who is not needy for affection.

There is no amount of housework you can do, no amount of talking you can do that will reignite attraction in her. Do the above and I promise you'll see a change.

I don't disagree with this in theory, but I do see it possibly backfiring.

If the OP suddenly starts going to the gym, looking after themselves, looking better, making plans a couple of nights a month where she is not invited, not looking for sex - I don't think she'll find him more attractive.

I think she'll accuse him of having an affair, so maybe tread carefully. If she gets that idea in her head, it could do more damage then the situation they are currently in.

AulWan

AulWan wrote: »

I don't disagree with this in theory, but I do see it possibly backfiring.

If the OP suddenly starts going to the gym, looking after themselves, looking better, making plans a couple of nights a month where she is not invited, not looking for sex - I don't think she'll find him more attractive.

I think she'll accuse him of having an affair, so maybe tread carefully. If she gets that idea in her head, it could do more damage then the situation they are currently in.

But what situation are they currently in? A drifting, loveless marriage?

That said, I do think the OP needs to sit down with his partner and have an open conversation about their entire life together. The problem is, imo, she probably doesn't know what the issue is, if there is an issue. Very few people really know the unconscious drivers of their behaviour. If we did we'd be a much more straight forward species.

osarusan

leggo wrote: »

This is pertinent because this is HIS issue and HE wants to change it

I actually think that this inadvertently identified the root of the problem, which is that it is HIS issue (only) and (only) HE wants to change it, because his wife doesn't see it as an issue and doesn't want to change it.

ILoveYourVibes

osarusan wrote: »

I actually think that this inadvertently identified the root of the problem, which is that it is HIS issue (only) and (only) HE wants to change it, because his wife doesn't see it as an issue and doesn't want to change it.

When you are in a relationship your issues become our issues.

There isn't anything wrong with either of them per say. But there is ..in this relationship.

If they were single they would both be sound single people. But being as you would be while single isn't sound when in a relationship.

marilynrr

osarusan wrote: »

I actually think that this inadvertently identified the root of the problem, which is that it is HIS issue (only) and (only) HE wants to change it, because his wife doesn't see it as an issue and doesn't want to change it.

I don't agree with this. She has a side of the story too. She has admitted to the OP that she only responds to his advances out of a sense of duty. That says a lot.

I've read lots of forums posts on this subject and often that's what the woman does for a few years, then she just can't do it anymore, or she gets to the point where she wants to tell him she never wants to have sex again.

If a woman is only having sex out of a sense of duty then I can almost guarantee she has an issue with it and wants to change it (to the opposite of what he wants) It is not a nice feeling to have to have sex with someone when you don't want to. This will more than likely be bothering her a LOT!

Cyclepath

marilynrr wrote: »

If a woman is only having sex out of a sense of duty then I can almost guarantee she has an issue with it and wants to change it (to the opposite of what he wants) It is not a nice feeling to have to have sex with someone when you don't want to. This will more than likely be bothering her a LOT!

Very true. Also, I don't think too many men would be happy having sex if they knew for sure that their partner was reluctantly going through the motions, assuming they agreed to have sex in the first place. Broadly speaking if your partner doesn't want to have sex you, it's a pretty bad sign.

I'm not painting a pretty picture but I think, realistically, no amount of counselling or discussion or housework is going to make the OP's wife want to have sex with him. So, OP has a decision to make: Stay and live like housemates to rear the kids, or separate and co-parent with the hope of meeting someone that does want to have sex with him.

In my own case, the net result of my ex not wanting to have sex with me was the end of the marriage. I found it very damaging to my self esteem and eventually pulled the plug. My ex began to show interest toward the end, but I couldn't shift from my mind the years of rejection and the belief that she was only interested because she thought my leaving was an ultimatum.

osarusan

marilynrr wrote: »

If a woman is only having sex out of a sense of duty then I can almost guarantee she has an issue with it and wants to change it (to the opposite of what he wants) It is not a nice feeling to have to have sex with someone when you don't want to. This will more than likely be bothering her a LOT!

Fair enough, it may be true that she sees this as an issue also.


But if their perspectives on, and ideal outcomes to, the issue are so different - his ideal outcome being that they rekindle their sex life, and her ideal outcome being that she not need to go through the duty of sex any more - then I don't ever see it being resolved.

Homelander

Honestly I think the OP needs to have a serious conversation with his wife and ask her if she's disinterested in sex and intimacy in general, or disinterested in sex and imtimacy specifically with him.

Until you get an answer to that, pretty much every comment on this thread is meaningless. Taking OP at his word - his wife and only initiated sex once in 5 years - that is completely dysfunctional from a relationship POV regardless of some of the factors raised.

It is entirely different to radically diminished sex life, which is very common.

marilynrr

Homelander wrote: »

Honestly I think the OP needs to have a serious conversation with his wife and ask her if she's disinterested in sex and intimacy in general, or disinterested in sex and imtimacy specifically with him.

Until you get an answer to that, pretty much every comment on this thread is meaningless. Taking OP at his word - his wife and only initiated sex once in 5 years - that is completely dysfunctional from a relationship POV regardless of some of the factors raised.

It is entirely different to radically diminished sex life, which is very common.

He definitely needs to have a serious conversation with her about it, but women often find this notoriously difficult to be honest about, because they don't want the relationship to end. They often still love their partners, but have developed a serious aversion to having sex with them, it's not as simple as just doing it if they love them, which a lot of people think.

Also women often think they have no interest in sex or intimacy at all due to the relationships they're in, they don't know until they are out of it and move onto a new relationship that they do actually have a sex drive after all. It doesn't always happen of course, and some aren't interested at all in sex anymore with anyone.

The other thing the OP might consider is if her contraception might be affecting her, I'm not sure if that's been asked before, but some women have no interest in sex until they come off the pill and then their libido comes back with a bang!

LegacyUser

Going incognito for this, Im guiessing im in the same boat at OP on this one. Married same amount of time, a few kids. Wife has told me in no uncertain terms that it would not bother her if she never had sex again. .Not just with me but with anyone. I cannot remember the last time she initated sex but we do have sex maybe twice a month, id have it more if I could but not a chance. I have explained that I do not feel the same and really enjoy sex with her.

marilynrr

marilynrr wrote: »

He definitely needs to have a serious conversation with her about it, but women often find this notoriously difficult to be honest about, because they don't want the relationship to end. They often still love their partners, but have developed a serious aversion to having sex with them, it's not as simple as just doing it if they love them, which a lot of people think.

Also women often think they have no interest in sex or intimacy at all due to the relationships they're in, they don't know until they are out of it and move onto a new relationship that they do actually have a sex drive after all. It doesn't always happen of course, and some aren't interested at all in sex anymore with anyone.

The other thing the OP might consider is if her contraception might be affecting her, I'm not sure if that's been asked before, but some women have no interest in sex until they come off the pill and then their libido comes back with a bang!

Very honest post.

One voice that is always missing in these threads are those of people who are in intimacy-less relationships and are "happy" to remain in them.

ITman88

Feel sorry for the OP, however I think more women become mothers than MILFS’s, which guys don’t realize before kids come along!
Kids are really hard on a woman, and they mess with her body.
I honestly wonder sometimes did previous generations ever have sex for pleasure, or was it just for duty

marilynrr

Deleted User wrote: »

Very honest post.

One voice that is always missing in these threads are those of people who are in intimacy-less relationships and are "happy" to remain in them.

It's not my own personal story, but i've read enough of these threads and spoke to enough women to see the pattern.
You're right though that other side don't post on these threads!!

ITman88 wrote: »

Feel sorry for the OP, however I think more women become mothers than MILFS’s, which guys don’t realize before kids come along!
Kids are really hard on a woman, and they mess with her body.
I honestly wonder sometimes did previous generations ever have sex for pleasure, or was it just for duty

There's an interesting book called 'mating in captivity' which theorises that as a couple become more linked domestically that lust and desire goes out the window!

Cyclepath

marilynrr wrote: »

There's an interesting book called 'mating in captivity' which theorises that as a couple become more linked domestically that lust and desire goes out the window!

Yep, I mentioned it earlier, Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel. Very good book!

marilynrr

Cyclepath wrote: »

Yep, I mentioned it earlier, Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel. Very good book!

Apologies
It's been a few days since I read the earlier posts.