One sided intimacy

LegacyUser

I've been married to my wife almost ten years now. I love her but I'm worried that she hasn't been attracted to me for some time now. For the past five years I can only remember one occasion (3 years ago) when she has initiated sex. Prior to that it would have been around 50/50. It always feels to me that she is responding to my advances out of a sense of duty, recently she admitted that this is the case. Five years ago I also had an accident at work which resulted in a visible scar across my stomach, it's faded with time but it's still very obvious. Although my wife assures me this doesn't bother her at all.

Five years ago also coincides with the arrival of our first child and consequently me not going to the gym, while I've put on a few pounds I know I'm not overweight and I haven't let myself go.

Obviously we've spoken about this quite a bit, I've always initiated these conversations too. Initially she denied there was a problem but more recently she has given me a multitude of reasons why this is the case/why it's not a problem-she's tired all the time, because I don't help enough around the house, it's just not a priority, all her friends say they never have sex anymore either so it's not just us and "it's hard to be attracted to someone if your also their mammy." I had to ask her to explain that last one, she said that me asking her where my shirt is etc. is not attractive.

My instinctive reaction to all of these reasons was to dismiss them as a cover for something she doesn't want to tell me. Nevertheless, I have made conscious efforts to increase the amount of housework I do, take the kids out so she can have naps etc. but there's been no change in our sex life.

For the first two years or so of this I just kept initiating and most of the time we would have sex although, as I've said, it seemed to be out of a sense of duty rather than a genuine willingness. As time passed I've resented having to initiate all the time and I've tried to stop myself from doing so, in the hope that the lack of sex would provoke her into action. But I'm very attracted to her, and after 3/4 weeks I can't resist her anymore and the cycle starts over again. As I've brought the issue up more frequently recently, I have found that if I initiate something and we have to stop for some reason, e.g. one of the kids waking up, she will initiate the next morning, but again it's more from a sense of duty.

Sometimes when we have sex I can tell that she enjoys it and we have good fun but most of the time that's not the case. She'll say things like "I hope I'm not wrecked in the morning now" or if it's lasting particularly long, I can sense that she's getting annoyed and would prefer to be asleep.

I've read similar threads to this and I've gently suggested to my wife some of things that have been suggested but she just seems completely uninterested in changing the status quo. I'm getting increasingly resentful about the situation. I would sooner live in celibacy than split up our marriage but obviously I want my wife to want me again.

Hope somebody has been though something similar and has some sort of solution...

whomadewho

I am in the same boat Op, a long term girlfriend who is dissinterested in intimacy. Was regular enough at the start but started to drop off as a soon as she knew I was emotionlly invested. When I look back it was always me who initiates everytime. We are not married and we dont have kids, and I told her the reason we are not married, was i dont to get stuck in a sexless marraige. Her answer was, ' all marriages end up sexless'. And she wonders why we are not married.
You cant change you wife Op, just like I cant change my girlfriend. They are who they are.
I said to my girlfriend last week 'we are not compatible sexually' and she said not many couples are compatible sexually but they just have to work at it.
And in fairness she has worked on it.
As hard it will be, you need to sit your wife down, and have a serious conversation about what sex means to you and ask her was sex means to her and try and find a middle ground that will make u's both happy.
I stuck my head in the sand for a long time without saying anything and alot of resentment was built up.After exploding one day, my misses now knows why intimacy is so important in the relationship. Best of luck Op

Cyclepath

I can recommend a very good book on this topic. It's by Esther Perel and called 'Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence'

It's a very good summary of the difficulty in maintaining erotic interest among the humdrum and unerotic realities of family life. It also contains a few good ideas on how to fix it.

It's definitely worth a read... but, my own 2c worth is that when my ex went the same direction as your wife, it was only her suspicion that I might be having an affair that rekindled her interest in sex. Kinda depressing but I had to fight her off towards the end when I'd pretty much given up on the relationship.

I found that me not asking for sex didn't really work. Joining a gym, getting fit and being seen to be more desirable or having women flirt with me with was far more of an aphrodisiac.

lozenges

OP. Ask your wife if she would be willing to go to couple's therapy with you.

There is also a good long running Reddit thread on this (r/deadbedrooms) which has loads of advice and support from others in a similar situation.

Good luck

LolaJJ

Hey OP

Just giving a woman's opinion on your post. Obviously I don't know your relationship, but going off my own experiences here based on what you have said.

I was once in a co-habiting relationship with a man I adored.

My way of loving him was to look after him, washing, cooking, cleaning, ironing etc. His way of loving me was sex and intimacy.

At the begining I loved caring for him and he was very grateful for all the things I did. After a while he got incredibly lazy and would depend on me to do everything for him and he stopped being grateful and instead would grunt if his clothes weren't clean when he needed them or i hadn't gotten around to going grocery shopping. He didn't mean it in a bad way, he just learned from what I taught him..... It went from feeling nurturing to feeling completely enslaved and taken for granted.

I created a monster.

Then....when he did want to show me his appreciation he did this with intimacy and I was so tired running the house and also so resentful to him for not helping me or actually actively creating more work while not appreciating me. The last thing I wanted to do was sleep with him. There is nothing less attractive than someone who is completely dependent on you. Eventually I was so irritated with him I ended the relationship.

It's great that you are helping around the house a bit more, but maybe she needs more than that. Maybe do some work for her, wash her car, or let her come home to a spotless home and changed bed sheets (regularly, not as a one off). And probably more importantly, thank her for what she does.....She might be feeling taken for granted, it could be that simple.

And maybe be patient, it might take a while for her to believe this is the new you. In my experience a drop off in intimacy is usually a symptom of another problem, just focusing on the sex itself might not be enough to fix it.

Best of luck anyway x

Triangle

I've been through the same and eventually it destroyed the marriage.
It wasn't anything to do with household chores. I was the sole earner and took 100% care of the kids/house every second week.
Eventually, we discovered she had an underlying condition that caused some of our difficulties. (ADHD)
Best bet imo is to go to couples counseling with a good counsellor, you have to find one that suits both of ye.
Best of luck with it.

LegacyUser

So the way I see it...she told you exactly why she doesn't feel like sex. You decide not to believe her, to insist there's something else going on. You increase your chores slightly and immediately get frustrated it doesn't result in sex.

It's not attractive to have a partner expect sex in return for doing their fair share of household duties. Perhaps that's the main issue- your attitude stinks. Housework is your job too, not just hers. Doing HALF is the MINIMUM you should be doing as two co-habiting adults..if you were flat sharing would you expect your flatmate to carry the burden? Would it be fair they left it all to you to do? Maybe she's fed up and sick of that attitude and sees herself as a carer/cleaner more than a lover because that's how you've treated her ....

Have a good long think about what it would be like living alone, what jobs you'd end up doing around the house. Now start doing them and don't expect anything in return. Leave sex off the cards and get back to treating her with a bit more respect and appreciation. Then see if things change...

matthewmurdock

There is no amount of housework that you will be able to do in order to get her to want to have sex with you again. It is quite possibly the worst advice there is to men because it does not work.

Couples counselling will just lead to her feeling pressurised into having sex with you. Maybe she will initiate a bit more but deep down you'll know it still isn't like it was before.

If you want to reignite your sex life talking about it is not going to do it.

Get yourself to the gym regularly, lose the couple of pounds, start improving yourself and find a new hobby. Be dedicated to improving yourself. Make yourself a little less available and start hanging out with friends a little bit more. I'm not advocating you to neglect your marriage, but have some stuff going on externally to it. Work towards goals, improve yourself and I'm very sure she will be naturally drawn back to you.

qwerty13

Things that would be a major turn-off for me:
- tired all the time, because partner doesn’t help enough around the house
- it’s hard to be attracted to someone if they treat you like you’re their mammy
- having a partner that doesn’t see that I’m tired / stressed, but wants to increase my tiredness and stress by wanting to be mammied, instead of lightening my load
- dismissing my explanations / not listening to me
- being taken for granted
- my partner thinking that a very recent change in pulling his weight a little more around the house more means sex now, straight away.

I don’t see ages in your post, but I’m guessing earlyish 40s by other things you’ve said. And more than 1 kid, as you mentioned your first child 5 years ago.

Do you both have full time jobs? That would change my views on the split of household and child related tasks, but as you don’t mention otherwise I’ll assume you both work outside the home. In that case, you’ve been a bit of an absent husband and father, and can’t seem to understand that dumping on your partner makes her far less likely to want to have sex with you! And lose the mammying stuff. It is so very unattractive.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Five years ago ye had a child, five years ago she stopped initiating sex. She's telling you she's exhausted, feeling like your mammy, it's not a priority, and your instinctive reaction is she's lying. Why? Because you can't understand how that would kill her libido, because you don't want it to be the case, because something in her delivery seemed like she was lying?

What normal avenues has she refused to try?

Do you see the parallel between how you're engaging with doing your share in the house and how she engages in sex? To humour her, out of duty, almost to prove that that's not actually the problem. Even if you do now manage to know where your shirts are all by yourself like a big boy, you know from your own experience how unsatisfying that kind of a reaction to a need is.

And tbh ye both have it better than a lot of people in the early childhood years of parenthood. She's having sex, you're doing housework, ye just both have bad attitudes about it.

Addle

But to stop fancying him?
I can understand being fed up with him or annoyed with him, but can you get past not fancying someone?

qwerty13

Addle wrote: »

But to stop fancying him?
I can understand being fed up with him or annoyed with him, but can you get past not fancying someone?

Can you fancy someone who takes you for granted, acts like an over-grown child, doesn’t listen to you, and modifies this behaviour for 2 minutes and then sulks when they’re not immediately given all that they want?

matthewmurdock

qwerty13 wrote: »

Can you fancy someone who takes you for granted, acts like an over-grown child, doesn’t listen to you, and modifies this behaviour for 2 minutes and then sulks when they’re not immediately given all that they want?

Did you read a different OP? Where is any of the above stated? Making stuff up to suit your own narrative.

qwerty13

matthewmurdock wrote: »

Did you read a different OP? Where is any of the above stated? Making stuff up to suit your own narrative.

In case you missed it, directly from the OP:

- She's tired all the time, because I don't help enough around the house [taking her for granted]
- "it's hard to be attracted to someone if your also their mammy." I had to ask her to explain that last one, she said that me asking her where my shirt is etc. is not attractive [acting like an over-grown child]
- My instinctive reaction to all of these reasons was to dismiss them [not listening to her]
- Nevertheless, I have made conscious efforts to increase the amount of housework I do, take the kids out so she can have naps etc. but there's been no change in our sex life. [modifies this behaviour for 2 minutes and then sulks when they’re not immediately given all that they want]

Of course she may simply not fancy him as well as all of the above. But she has explicitly told him reasons why she isn’t particularly interested in having sex with him, so in my opinion his first port of call is to address what she has said - and on a long term basis, ie to be a better partner and father.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

From my reading he modified his behaviour years ago though? "For the first two years of this"?

I think there certainly is an issue with expectations, entitlement and respecting her reasons as stated but I don't think he just started making the beds last week, and I'm not seeing any tantrums.

matthewmurdock

qwerty13 wrote: »

In case you missed it, directly from the OP:

- She's tired all the time, because I don't help enough around the house [taking her for granted]
- "it's hard to be attracted to someone if your also their mammy." I had to ask her to explain that last one, she said that me asking her where my shirt is etc. is not attractive [acting like an over-grown child]
- My instinctive reaction to all of these reasons was to dismiss them [not listening to her]
- Nevertheless, I have made conscious efforts to increase the amount of housework I do, take the kids out so she can have naps etc. but there's been no change in our sex life.

So explain to me why everything that she said is being taken at face value but none of what he said is?

You decided that he helped out more for "2 minutes then sulks when their not immediately given all that they want". This reads like some sort of revenge porn fantasy. Where is any of this inferred or stated? Firstly, there is no timeframe given, these changes could possibly have been going on for months. Secondly, she listed a bunch of issues, he addressed them and yet she still has problems.

Thirdly, it's very possible that he was doing plenty of housework anyway. Even when they have sex she is putting a downer on the whole thing.

It's almost as if she finds excuse after excuse, when one thing is addressed she finds another reason why she doesn't want to have sex. Almost as if she isn't attracted to him no matter what and a list of flimsy half baked excuses which change on a dime aren't worth anything.

He says in the OP that he has done what she asked. That he would rather live in celibacy than leave. What is it you want from him? Blood is it. Christ.

Relationship advice? More like fantasise about how bad men are and scold them for it.

qwerty13

@ electro
The “first 2 years” was in relation to him continuing to initiate sex.

The “multitude of reasons” stuff about reasons why she isn’t initiating sex was ‘more recently’.

I was harsh about the throwing his toys out of the pram. But to me he has behaved selfishly in the past, only recently has changed some of his behaviours, and yet can’t seem to understand why his wife has not very very quickly returned to initiating sex with him.

Thespoofer

In my experience OP, the more desperate a woman thinks you are for physical contact with her, the less she will want it.

Addle

qwerty13 wrote: »

Can you fancy someone who takes you for granted, acts like an over-grown child, doesn’t listen to you, and modifies this behaviour for 2 minutes and then sulks when they’re not immediately given all that they want?

Actually, yes. Sex with someone has been the only reason for me to be in a relationship with them at times.

Doodaaa

Doodaaa wrote: »

So the way I see it...she told you exactly why she doesn't feel like sex. You decide not to believe her, to insist there's something else going on. You increase your chores slightly and immediately get frustrated it doesn't result in sex.

It's not attractive to have a partner expect sex in return for doing their fair share of household duties. Perhaps that's the main issue- your attitude stinks. Housework is your job too, not just hers. Doing HALF is the MINIMUM you should be doing as two co-habiting adults..if you were flat sharing would you expect your flatmate to carry the burden? Would it be fair they left it all to you to do? Maybe she's fed up and sick of that attitude and sees herself as a carer/cleaner more than a lover because that's how you've treated her ....

Have a good long think about what it would be like living alone, what jobs you'd end up doing around the house. Now start doing them and don't expect anything in return. Leave sex off the cards and get back to treating her with a bit more respect and appreciation. Then see if things change...

Even if all the above were true, it wouldn't explain her attitude about being fine with a sexless life.

If she has a problem with the work the OP does around the house, she needs to discuss it with him like an adult. Personally, I think one of the best investments a family can make, if they can afford it, is to get a cleaner in. Removes so many sources for arguments. I appreciate it's not for everyone, but it's a lot cheaper than divorce.

But anyhow, I've never come across a situation where a man doing more housework revitalised a marriage.

Leaving the sex aside for a minute, is she ever affectionate in other ways? Intimacy is a lot more than just sex.

qwerty13

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Even if all the above were true, it wouldn't explain her attitude about being fine with a sexless life.

If she has a problem with the work the OP does around the house, she needs to discuss it with him like an adult. Personally, I think one of the best investments a family can make, if they can afford it, is to get a cleaner in. Removes so many sources for arguments. I appreciate it's not for everyone, but it's a lot cheaper than divorce.

But anyhow, I've never come across a situation where a man doing more housework revitalised a marriage.

Leaving the sex aside for a minute, is she ever affectionate in other ways? Intimacy is a lot more than just sex.

Their marriage isn’t sexless though. It’s lack of initiation/enthusiasm about sex. Of course not ideal - but not irretrievable either.

I agree that she should have talked to him re lack of help in the house, but they are where they are. And a cleaner is a great idea.

I don’t think it’s that one partner finally pulling their weight with housework revitalises a marriage; it’s more that feeling dumped on re housework and/or childcare over a long period is not only exhausting, it feels like the other half doesn’t care enough to be bothered noticing, helping, or just plain takes this for granted. None of that is conducive to a decent sex life - in my opinion. And no, I don’t have a ‘narrative’ or think ‘all men are bad’. I do know a woman who behaves like this in her marriage - and I don’t think much of her tbh. I can’t understand her selfish attitude.

Intimacy of any sort is (I think) difficult to want if you feel unsupported and taken for granted (eta: and thats without the “mammying” stuff - that would truly push me right over the edge). I guess it’s a fair comment to say that I just can’t see myself being able to separate the sex from the emotions/how I feel about the other person. And if I’d listed off the “multiple reasons” that the OP quotes, I’d be pretty down in the dumps re the emotional side of things.

Millionaire only not

qwerty13 wrote: »

Their marriage isn’t sexless though. It’s lack of initiation/enthusiasm about sex. Of course not ideal - but not irretrievable either.

I agree that she should have talked to him re lack of help in the house, but they are where they are. And a cleaner is a great idea.

I don’t think it’s that one partner finally pulling their weight with housework revitalises a marriage; it’s more that feeling dumped on re housework and/or childcare over a long period is not only exhausting, it feels like the other half doesn’t care enough to be bothered noticing, helping, or just plain takes this for granted. None of that is conducive to a decent sex life - in my opinion. And no, I don’t have a ‘narrative’ or think ‘all men are bad’. I do know a woman who behaves like this in her marriage - and I don’t think much of her tbh. I can’t understand her selfish attitude.

Intimacy of any sort is (I think) difficult to want if you feel unsupported and taken for granted. I guess it’s a fair comment to say that I just can’t see myself being able to separate the sex from the emotions/how I feel about the other person. And if I’d listed off the “multiple reasons” that the OP quotes, I’d be pretty down in the dumps re the emotional side of things

For better or worse , in sickness and health, if the house is clean or unclean , till death do us part

LegacyUser

Thank you for the constructive responses, particularly to cyclepath (I will buy the book) matthew and lozenges and to others who have defended me, which I'll come to in a minute.

To answer a few questions, I'm the sole earner these past two years. My wife had a full time job but took a leave of absence, which was then extended. We also hired a cleaner about two years ago.

I didn't/don't believe the reasons my wife stated for several reasons. They weren't all stated at once, if I we spoke about it this week it could be because she's tired, next week she might say it's because it's just not a priority, last week it would have been something else. The reasons she gives are inconsistent and variable. (Of course there could be multiple reasons). Secondly, I was under the impression that I was doing my fair share already. Undoubtedly she does more than me as she's at home full time. But when I am at home I would have said we spent a roughly equal amount of time doing household chores and I'm at home a lot more than most. For a long while now I've being trying to do more. Finally, I've taken on board what she has said despite not believing it. The cleaner was something I was completely opposed to, it's too middle class for me, but I agreed to it anyway. Likewise with the extension on the leave of absence.

The 'mammying'- There are certain household chores that I do exclusively and certain ones she does exclusively. She does the ironing, hence, I would be asking where a shirt is. I do all the DIY, if she asks me to change a bulb, I don't consider it 'daddying.' I would have thought that's fairly normal. Anyway, I don't think it's healthy to use sex as some sort of payment for household chores as has been insinuated. I don't want more sex, I want my wife to want to have sex.

I've suggested going to a couples therapy, which was dismissed. I arranged nights away without the children, including staying in a suite in a very nice hotel for her birthday.

Thank you again to the people who gave constructive replies. To qwerty in particular, I wonder if a female posted a message similar to mine, I wonder would you accuse her of being an "absent husband and father."

qwerty13

qwerty13 wrote: »

Their marriage isn’t sexless though. It’s lack of initiation/enthusiasm about sex. Of course not ideal - but not irretrievable either.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but to me, enthusiasm has to be part of sex. Continual rejection or disinterest is awful hard on anyone, at its worse it's a form of emotional abuse. (I honestly think enthusiasm has to be part of any shared life, you need to look forward to spending time together, doing things together, not just sex etc.)

OP, is your wife enthusiastic about other parts of your life together?

kerryjack

OP it's just part of life. In my humble opinion it's hard for humans to stay sexually attracted to each other for too long. In all fairness I don't know too many 50 year olds that I find very attractive that doesn't mean you don't love them. You love them as the mother or father of your kids, someone in your corner no matter what. Someone you can talk to and go through life stuggles with and they are plenty. I do find a few glasses of wine or a few beers helps the situation and can get things moving now and again and I know a few couples that smoke the odd joint occasionally and that helps as well. Hard to beat the old bath and a few candals and a few glasses of wine still works down here.

qwerty13

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but to me, enthusiasm has to be part of sex. Continual rejection or disinterest is awful hard on anyone, at its worse it's a form of emotional abuse. (I honestly think enthusiasm has to be part of any shared life, you need to look forward to spending time together, doing things together, not just sex etc.)

OP, is your wife enthusiastic about other parts of your life together?

Enthusiasm for life is a very attractive quality, be that passionate about stuff, their life together, or sex (not necessarily in that order!).

This is from poster electro on pg 1. I’m thinking they’ve summarised it very well:

Do you see the parallel between how you're engaging with doing your share in the house and how she engages in sex? To humour her, out of duty, almost to prove that that's not actually the problem. Even if you do now manage to know where your shirts are all by yourself like a big boy, you know from your own experience how unsatisfying that kind of a reaction to a need is.


Maybe they’ve both got into a rut of feeling not heard. Maybe both need to make a move towards the other. Or more of a move toward the other. As it’s the OP’s thread, and we’re not addressing his wife, im going to suggest that he moves more towards her position (on a long term basis). I don’t know if that will solve the issues he’s experiencing, but surely it has to help.

LegacyUser

Apologies I replied to the thread earlier and the message failed to post for some reason.

Thank you for the constructive messages, particularly Matthew for defending me and cyclepath-I've ordered that book already. That's my next step.

To answer a few things-we have a cleaner, I work full time, my wife took a leave of absence two years ago and then had it extended.

With regard to not believing my wife's reasons-the reasons I have listed are the most common things she has stated during the discussions we have on the matter. She might say it's due to her being too tired this week, if we've another discussion next week it might be because of housework. She's inconsistent with her reasons. Secondly, and much more importantly, I don't believe her reasons but I have given her the benefit of the doubt and acted on them as if I did. I was against the cleaner (it's too middle class for my liking) but I gave it the go ahead, likewise with the extension on the leave of absence. Plus I would have thought that we always shared the housework fairly reasonably, obviously since she's been at home full time she has done more than me but when we are both here I know I do my fair share. I'm home more than most people in full time employment.


The 'mammying'- Some household chores she does exclusively, some I do exclusively. She does the ironing, hence I do from time to time ask her where a shirt is. I do all the DIY, if she asks me to change a bulb I don't consider it 'daddying.' I would have thought that's fairly normal.

I've suggested going to see a therapist but it was dismissed. It's not something I'd be comfortable with either but I would have been willing to try.

Lastly, thank you again for the constructive advice. I'm going to start with that book and see where that takes me.

I would like to say that some of the replies seemed to be a little sexist I'm sorry to say. I was encouraged to post having read a similar thread where the OP was female and 100% of the replies were positive and constructive. One of the posters deduced that I was an 'absent father and husband.' Others said that I expect more sex because I started doing a bit of housework which is untrue. I just want my wife to want to have sex with me.

LegacyUser

I was in a long-term relationship and towards the end, the sex was non-existent and I would think my ex would blame me entirely for it. And while I’ll take some of the blame, it takes two to tango.

He would often give out about how we weren’t having sex like we did at the start. That’s an unrealistic goal to be fair. As a relationship grows & develops, that lusty 3 month honeymoon wanes a bit. But that was always the comparison and the pressure.

He also sulked so badly and was passive aggressive if he was annoyed with me. That could go on for days with me trying to get out of him what was wrong and eventually a long discussion would be had and when he felt okay, suddenly things were back to normal. So on his terms he’d want sex and would get pisssd off if I wasn’t in the mood because I had spent 3 days cajoling a grumpy overgrown child. Not a turn on!!!

I eventually got weary and I hold my hand up, just couldn’t be bothered with sex anymore. I might be tired or not in the mood but the difference was, I couldn’t be bothered trying to get in the mood.

One thing, from the side who became uninterested, I do agree that you should be pulling your weight and helping out. Don’t become another child for her. It’s not a turn on. Even in this feminist world, most women still want their men to be men - not necessarily physically (ie. getting beefed up in the gym) - but be the man in the house.

Don’t pressurise or expect sex. The ex above, there was one night we were going to a gig and staying in a hotel. We were younger so didn’t get much alone time. Because of that, the expectation was always hotel = sex, no matter how I was feeling. That day, I mentioned I was a bit down in the dumps etc and basically implied I doubt I’d be in the mood. This particular time, he was cool with that and the pressure was off. We went out, had fun and when we went back to the hotel and there was zero expectation, we were just having a laugh and goofing off and the lack of pressure became such a turn on. It even took me by surprise.

So maybe, go back to the start, when ye were first dating. How did you act? Did you go on date nights? Did you hug, kiss, hold hands? Maybe do that again, without the expectation. Give her a massage, a long kiss without it turning into more. Play a little hard to get.

It’s so easy for people to get stuck in a rut and a routine and really hard to get out of it but communication is key - that can be hard too as it so often descends into a fight.

Bit of a ramble there but hope you get things back on track OP

woodchuck

Mod warning:

@kerryjack, I've deleted your post as it falls well below the standard allowed in PI. Please have a read of the charter before posting again, otherwise you'll risk getting a card.


FYI OP, I've approved your posts now. Please just be aware that it takes time for anonymous posts to appear, as they have to be approved by the mods first.

Cyclepath

qwerty13 wrote: »

Even if you do now manage to know where your shirts are all by yourself like a big boy, you know from your own experience how unsatisfying that kind of a reaction to a need is.


Maybe they’ve both got into a rut of feeling not heard. Maybe both need to make a move towards the other. Or more of a move toward the other. As it’s the OP’s thread, and we’re not addressing his wife, im going to suggest that he moves more towards her position (on a long term basis). I don’t know if that will solve the issues he’s experiencing, but surely it has to help.

Sorry, but this is the bit that annoys me. We always hear about how the male partner is a manchild who can't find his shirts. And yes that's sometimes a valid point, But there are just as many examples of the female partner being incapable.

For example my partner is crap at personal finances and doesn't know where the website is to renew her motor tax, or pay her credit card online. She doesn't know where the batteries are for the smoke alarm, or the where the bulbs are for the 279 lamps we have from IKEA. She doesn't know where the hedge trimmer is kept, or the oil and windscreen wash for her car, etc etc etc. I can think of literally hundred of jobs that are mine and not hers. She's also **** at ironing so I do my own shirts btw.

But, I love her madly for all of her other great qualities, and I don't refuse to have sex with her just because she annoys me sometimes.

Addle

OP, if your gut instinct is telling you that she’s not being fully honest with you, then there’s probably something to it.

You seemed to have talked about the issue a lot.
If you feel like you’ve done your best and are still unhappy in your marriage, then maybe it’s time to act, but no one else can tell you how to proceed.

qwerty13

oiiiii wrote: »

Apologies I replied to the thread earlier and the message failed to post for some reason.

Thank you for the constructive messages, particularly Matthew for defending me and cyclepath-I've ordered that book already. That's my next step.

To answer a few things-we have a cleaner, I work full time, my wife took a leave of absence two years ago and then had it extended.

With regard to not believing my wife's reasons-the reasons I have listed are the most common things she has stated during the discussions we have on the matter. She might say it's due to her being too tired this week, if we've another discussion next week it might be because of housework. She's inconsistent with her reasons. Secondly, and much more importantly, I don't believe her reasons but I have given her the benefit of the doubt and acted on them as if I did. I was against the cleaner (it's too middle class for my liking) but I gave it the go ahead, likewise with the extension on the leave of absence. Plus I would have thought that we always shared the housework fairly reasonably, obviously since she's been at home full time she has done more than me but when we are both here I know I do my fair share. I'm home more than most people in full time employment.


The 'mammying'- Some household chores she does exclusively, some I do exclusively. She does the ironing, hence I do from time to time ask her where a shirt is. I do all the DIY, if she asks me to change a bulb I don't consider it 'daddying.' I would have thought that's fairly normal.

I've suggested going to see a therapist but it was dismissed. It's not something I'd be comfortable with either but I would have been willing to try.

Lastly, thank you again for the constructive advice. I'm going to start with that book and see where that takes me.

I would like to say that some of the replies seemed to be a little sexist I'm sorry to say. I was encouraged to post having read a similar thread where the OP was female and 100% of the replies were positive and constructive. One of the posters deduced that I was an 'absent father and husband.' Others said that I expect more sex because I started doing a bit of housework which is untrue. I just want my wife to want to have sex with me.

To be fair, you didn’t explain any of that in your OP. Of course that would have changed the nature of what was said.

whomadewho

Op, has your wife ever been enthusiastic about intimacy. If not, she maybe asexual or on the asexual spectrum and not know it. Thats why you gut is telling you something is not right.

matthewmurdock

From your most recent response, which confirmed my suspicions and backed up everything I was arguing, the course of action for you should be as follows, seeing as you want to stay with her no matter what.

Get back to the gym. Find a plan and stick to it. Eat properly and get back into shape. Get yourself a personal trainer if you have to. The important part is that you will look better, feel better and be dedicated. She will find these things more attractive.

Secondly, find a new hobby. Commit to it and try and be consistent with it. Have something you are passionate about, for you, away from the marriage.

Lastly, make yourself a little less available. I'm not advocating abandoning your marital responsibilities, but have plans maybe 3-4 nights a month where previously you wouldn't. These plans should not include your wife.

Lastly, do not initiate sex again. Cuddle, kiss whatever if you want. Have fun and love each other but do not initiate sex. Only have sex if she initiates for the near future.

Once you do all these things, you'll have so much going on that the intimacy won't actually be a big deal for you anymore. You'll be improving yourself in every way, with no expectation of anything from her.

What will happen as a result of all this is, and I guarantee it, that she will see her husband as someone who has lots going on, as someone who is improving himself physically, as someone who is dedicated and as someone who is not needy for affection.

There is no amount of housework you can do, no amount of talking you can do that will reignite attraction in her. Do the above and I promise you'll see a change.

koppy

Fair play to you for trying so hard for so long.

Sounds like you've done all you can. Very hard to see what more you can do.

Sex with someone who isn't in to it wouldn't be an option for me. I'd rather not have any at all.

Give her A letter similar to your post explaining how much you are struggling with the issues. It might focus her thoughts and maybe realise how much your struggling and how much effort you've made.

Neyite

Outside of the bedroom what's your relationship like? On a scale of flatmates you kinda know to mad about each other?

I can only speak for myself but bedroom interest waned for me when stuff outside the bedroom became a problem. Things like a partner being grumpy or snappy at me for external reasons, or only noticing I exist when he was feeling horny for example.

For me, bedroom intimacy comes from being emotionally close to my partner. We putter around the kitchen in the evening or on weekends maybe doing housework together and talk and listen to each other like mates. If he's had a sh!te day at work I listen and give him encouragement or suggestions. I'll tell him about [annoying thing] that happened at work or a family issue. That kind of thing. Then, because we are best friends, and he's the person I trust and talk to about the big and not so big stuff that's on my mind the fondness, attraction and physical attraction follow on from that. But if we were just like flatmates passing in the night then there's no way my libido would be even off the ground.

It's all very well suggesting you do more housework, or date nights, but to do it with the expectation of sex in exchange would probably have the opposite effect, similarly booking a fancy suite away for a night - that implies an expectation of sex when you get there and again, if you are not feeling horny yourself that kind of gesture can feel very...pressurised and transactional, I guess? It can work in some cases where it's just about carving out some couple time or a bit more equality in chores but it's not a cure-all for every sexless marriage.



Basically, you fancy her a lot and you want her to fancy you back. To do that it might need you to take the focus off any kind of physical intimacy and reconnect emotionally as friends and see if something grows from there.

It may be that you've got a great friendship and my suggestions might be of no use to you and if so I hope that others come along with suggestions that better fit for you though.

strandroad

matthewmurdock wrote: »

Once you do all these things, you'll have so much going on that the intimacy won't actually be a big deal for you anymore. You'll be improving yourself in every way, with no expectation of anything from her.

What will happen as a result of all this is, and I guarantee it, that she will see her husband as someone who has lots going on, as someone who is improving himself physically, as someone who is dedicated and as someone who is not needy for affection.

There is no amount of housework you can do, no amount of talking you can do that will reignite attraction in her. Do the above and I promise you'll see a change.

This is potentially poor advice in that it's not how many women work. Many of us (not all let me stress but many) need to be doing reasonably well in their own life in order to naturally want sex. If I'm tired, depressed, discouraged, stressed, helpless, in pain or discomfort, my sex drive is just not there. There is nothing there to tap into, it's just gone, erased. But when I'm happy, have good headspace and everything is going reasonably well, I'll jump his bones whenever and he won't even see it coming. And it's quite a popular scenario as the saying "men must have sex to be happy and women must be happy to have sex" attests. Not universal, but popular.

Therefore it mightn't matter if the OP is Henry Cavill with brilliant hobbies. If the drive is not there because of how his wife feels about her life or their family or herself, it's not there. The OP describes her a person who is tired and stressed overall, she gives him some good granular reasons but they don't convince him because he tried to fix them and it doesn't work. But what she is really flagging is that she is overall unhappy, in a rut or maybe depressed, or not coping with children under 5 all day. Unless this improves overall for her and she gets herself to a better place, her sex drive won't necessarily respond to whatever the OP does on his side. She will do her duty as she does now but she can only regain enthusiasm for sex when she regains enthusiasm for life.

OP what you were trying to do going to counselling was probably the best strategy; can you work on it more? Can you make it about discussing your lives overall rather than just her sex drive so that it's not her being put on the spot?

LegacyUser

I'm a woman and have to echo what some of the posters have said here. I feel sexy when sex isn't demanded or expected of me, when the pressure is off and we're just having fun and often when sex is completely off the cards for whatever reason is what actually drives me wild. So...try that? I'd have to agree that booking a hotel room or having a planned night ie roses everywhere can make me feel under pressure to perform....and if my head isn't in the right place, and especially my heart, then it just stresses me out.

Try go back to some dating activities or just spending time connecting again. Give without expecting to receive in terms of physical affection. Give her a really long hug or a massage and even if she tried to initiate sex, diall it back and let her know it doesn't always have to go to the next step. Once the pressure is off, it usually does wonders for my libido.

I'd really recommend you both read some books about it and see a counsellor together.. understanding how each approach sex and love can be eye opening. It really is true that a woman has to feel happy first to have sex and certainly for me anyway, how I felt about my relationship was directly linked to how sexy things were. Good luck, and maybe frame things with your wife in terms of wanting to connect again rather than wanting sex, using the right language of love for the other can be important to how she perceives the message. Go read up about language of love men and women use before having those conversations with her

LegacyUser

There is a whole sub-reddit on this called deadbedrooms, this is not about doing your fair share around the house, that's called chore sex, or anything else. She's gone off sex or sex with you for some reason. Is there somebody else. It could be medical, personal or anything. Why did she take leave of absence, any history of depression. I think you need to get rid of the kids for an evening and have a converstaion with her. Try to remain calm, maybe don't do it all in one go. But explain to her that you are un happy and why and that you want to fix this but that she has to meet you half way and she needs to take this serisously as it won't go away. Couples that play together say together.

I'd be pushing for counseling and visit to GP. In the mean time go out and get fit, do things that make you happy improve yourself. Don't sit around the house being pissed off. You are paying for a cleaner, working so that she doesn't have to. Maybe suggest she goes back to work part time so that you don't have to work so much...

ElizaBennett

A lot of good advise here and also some cliched stuff that probably won't work. The good thing is that you still do fancy her and love her and hopefully she feels that way too but it's just not to the fore right now. Try telling her she's beautiful - just in passing and with a smile - be sweet and say aloud the things you think when you see her. Maybe even tell her straight out that you want to be more tactile and loving but not with pressure for it to lead to anything. Hold hands and kiss her and give her a hug when she comes in the door. If she knows it's just purely out of love and affection then she'll relax about it. All women dread that feeling of - OK, he wants to kiss me, fine, oh - now he's got his hand on my butt. So it wasn't just a quick innocent kiss - he was thinking about sex all along. Sometimes we just want the hug or the kiss. Let her believe that she can have easy simple closeness with you that doesn't have to mean sex every time. Sometimes it will lead to that but it shouldn't always have to as it'll make her feel she's disappointing you all the time so she'll shy away from any contact.

I have to say though that I think she's wrong to make you feel bad after sex by moaning about how she'll be tired now in the morning etc. That's a very bad sign. She should be very happy afterwards and glad she did it - not bitching about it. I'd worry about that attitude.

TheAnalyst_

This woman does not fancy you any more. Its like asking her to be intimate to a random non attractive stranger.

Its over.

Augme

The telling thing for me is that your wife never once complained about you not doing any work, just used it as an excuse for not wanting sex.

Sounds to me like she would be perfectly happy, or at least content, to never have sex again. That should tell you everything you need to know about the state it your relationship.

It's done. There is really no coming back from this. She isn't interested and never will be. You need to accept that and decide next what you want to do.

Honeydew3456

Seems to me you really have done all you can in response to her reasons for not wanting to be intimate with you and nothing has changed.

Sadly, I too think you have no other options but to accept that she will never never change and this is your lot. How does someone come back from having an extremely low sex drive? Maybe a sex therapist will work? Have you asked her does she fancy you anymore?

Maybe as also suggested get into a gym with extra effort put into your appearance to see if that works.

While I know long term relationships have lulls, I have had my own LTR but I have required regular intimacy even if he wasn't ripped or looking anything close to a hottie that day!! It's a basic human need and the glue in a relationship regardless of time spent together. But that's just my opinion regarding the gym point!

Hope things get better for you anyway and watch out for your self esteem in all of this.

ILoveYourVibes

OP.


We have to be honest here. Your wife obviously has a lower sex drive.

She is going to have to compromise and so will you.

Basically agree a set no of times you would like to have sex.

I know men don't like to think of women having sex as a duty etc. But sure remember we all like when we get into it!

And we have to be honest. Sometimes it is a duty. Or something you do for the other person.

Yes you do have to help in other ways. Do things that are important to her. But you should be doing that anyway!

I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of what a woman's sex drive should be.

Ask her how you can be a better husband. And give her a REALISTIC of how often you would like to have sex with her.

What about twice a week etc to start off with at least? One can be a date night.

Women don't feel very sexy when underappreciated and tired. Pamper her a little.

OP you have to work for it even in marriage ...sorry but just being honest.

Maybe you should both go to bed earlier too. And go more activities together. Build intimacy. Cuddle her more.

But i mean she has to agree to a concrete idea of how much sex you want ....that you guys can keep to

It might not be romantic but well ...that's real life.

Ideally she should have realized this herself and come up with an unspoken schedule in her head to be intimate even when she didn't really feel like it. As you should for things that mean a lot for her.

Thespoofer

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

OP.


We have to be honest here. Your wife obviously has a lower sex drive.

She is going to have to compromise and so will you.

Basically agree a set no of times you would like to have sex.

I know men don't like to think of women having sex as a duty etc. But sure remember we all like when we get into it!

And we have to be honest. Sometimes it is a duty. Or something you do for the other person.

Yes you do have to help in other ways. Do things that are important to her. But you should be doing that anyway!

I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of what a woman's sex drive should be.

Ask her how you can be a better husband. And give her a REALISTIC of how often you would like to have sex with her.

What about twice a week etc to start off with at least? One can be a date night.

Women don't feel very sexy when underappreciated and tired. Pamper her a little.

OP you have to work for it even in marriage ...sorry but just being honest.

Maybe you should both go to bed earlier too. And go more activities together. Build intimacy. Cuddle her more.

But i mean she has to agree to a concrete idea of how much sex you want ....that you guys can keep to

It might not be romantic but well ...that's real life.

Ideally she should have realized this herself and come up with an unspoken schedule in her head to be intimate even when she didn't really feel like it. As you should for things that mean a lot for her.

Can't see this working tbh.

GingerLily

How is your wife's behaviour in general OP? You say she's on a leave of absence from work, is this due to a specific reason? Could she be suffering from something behind the scenes and a low sex drive becoming a symptom of this?

tara73

oiiiiii wrote: »

Thank you for the constructive responses, particularly to cyclepath (I will buy the book) matthew and lozenges and to others who have defended me, which I'll come to in a minute.

this is quite a telling answer OP. Are you taking into account the responses who are not defending you, or are you doing any self reflection at all? If not, your whole asking here is quite useless and I'm not sure you will get to the core of your problems only taking into account the posts defending you. But then I'm not sure whether you want to get to the core of the problems at all.
You repeatingly tell you not believing your wife what she says. Do you think that's the way to go in a relationship, or how come you think this? Has she a history of lying to you?
In your replies you are just defending yourself too, no sign of taking into account the brilliant advice and thoughts written here.

Anyway, I agree with posters this relationship is doomed to fail but I'm not sure you are able to be in a mature relationship with anybody longterm, hence my advice to do some self reflection on yourself/visit a counsellor.

worded

No one suggested she should go to a gym.
Perhaps that would give her a lift mentally and make her feel more attractive and give her more energy. Staying at home can be boring and depressing.

If it’s a mismatched libido you need to reach a compromise, but things were ok at the start.

I read some where, what about the little stuff like Hugs and hand holding etc ... has that stopped ?

This all can lead to a break up OP so do your best, it’s not a lost cause ...

Def go to the gym / cycle etc and get fit, good for your mental and physical health
Encourage her to do the same
Consider councelling but maybe a holiday might be better first ...
Ask relatives if the my can babysit the kid and have a date night like you used to ?

osarusan

OP, unless there is a genuine desire for change on her part, nothing will change.

Not only does she not feel enthusiastic about sex with you, she's not bothered about becoming enthusiastic about sex with you.

It can be crushing knowing that the person you desire so much will go days, weeks even, without thinking about you in the same way, and even worse, doesn't see any issue with that.

You have my sympathies and I think that a lot of the stuff about doing more around the house is a wild goose chase as it so often is.

ILoveYourVibes

Thespoofer wrote: »

Can't see this working tbh.

Maybe not. But if it doesn't then its not really going to change.

She isn't suddenly going to change unless you get her to agree to something like a marriage contract etc.

You have to be concrete about your needs.

If it doesn't work then you accept things as they are ..or he leaves.

No one suggested she should go to a gym.
Perhaps that would give her a lift mentally and make her feel more attractive and give her more energy. Staying at home can be boring and depressing.

might work
but can you get her to go to a gym?

matthewmurdock

tara73 wrote: »

this is quite a telling answer OP. Are you taking into account the responses who are not defending you, or are you doing any self reflection at all? If not, your whole asking here is quite useless and I'm not sure you will get to the core of your problems only taking into account the posts defending you. But then I'm not sure whether you want to get to the core of the problems at all.
You repeatingly tell you not believing your wife what she says. Do you think that's the way to go in a relationship, or how come you think this? Has she a history of lying to you?
In your replies you are just defending yourself too, no sign of taking into account the brilliant advice and thoughts written here.

Anyway, I agree with posters this relationship is doomed to fail but I'm not sure you are able to be in a mature relationship with anybody longterm, hence my advice to do some self reflection on yourself/visit a counsellor.

Many of these responses amounted to an attack on the OP based on prejudice and not what was written in the op. His response there was perfectly justified.

Yet again the OP is being asked to find fault in himself despite being very detailed, reasonable and balanced in his responses. From what he has written, there is little more he can do.

You say he is not able to be in a mature relationship with anyone? That is an incredible comment to make based on nothing whatsoever. Based on him pulling his weight, giving her chance after chance, trying to talk, recommending a counsellor and saying he is willing to stay in the relationship without sex.

Some of the responses in this thread are disgraceful.