This is a thread about the 2020 Six Nations, formerly the Five Nations

alta stare

TCM wrote: »

I watched Italy v Scotland yesterday and the standard of rugby was atrocious. It's not a 6 nations tournament. At best 4 teams should be competing, the other two are 2nd rate.

Yes two very poor teams playing for nothing. Surely relegation has to be introduced. The current closed shop format is very tired. I am not suggesting things would automatically get better with promotion/relegation but it would at least add another interesting dimension to the tournament. Given the state of the Scottish team im sure it would make them very nervous about the prospect of going down. Adds some edge to the games at the bottom.

Former Former

There's no point bringing in relegation because there's no one to promote.

(Georgia are significantly worse than Italy)

EmmetSpiceland

Former Former wrote: »

There's no point bringing in relegation because there's no one to promote.

(Georgia are significantly worse than Italy)

True but if they could get a decent second “tier” with Romania and Georgia heading it up then bring South Africa into the 6 nations, or even 5, and possibly get a “clean” Russian side it could be done.

The problem is that it would take years to sort out. Plus, no one takes the non-6 nations teams seriously. Look at the farce, and corruption, with the last World Cup qualifiers. Spain, Germany, Portugal, and Belgium are decades off “competing” with Italy.

Hermy

Would it help Italy to be demoted and get the chance to start winning some games at the lower level?
I can't imagine endless loses in this tournament is doing them any good.

OldRio

Hermy wrote: »

Would it help Italy to be demoted and get the chance to start winning some games at the lower level?
I can't imagine endless loses in this tournament is doing them any good.

Who gets promoted?
Or are you suggesting only a 5 team competition?
If so money will and always will be the issue.

Hermy

OldRio wrote: »

Who gets promoted?
Or are you suggesting only a 5 team competion?
If so money will and always will be the issue.

I hadn't thought it out that far to be honest.
Just thinking of Italy's endless losing streak and what that must do for morale.

Squidgy Black

Hermy wrote: »

Would it help Italy to be demoted and get the chance to start winning some games at the lower level?
I can't imagine endless loses in this tournament is doing them any good.

Not really. If Italy are kicked out of the 6 Nations they'll lose out on sponsorship money as well as revenue from the TV package and attendances etc. That combined with playing a much lower standard of rugby would be a huge blow and would probably start to filter down to the club teams too.

EmmetSpiceland

Hermy wrote: »

Would it help Italy to be demoted and get the chance to start winning some games at the lower level?
I can't imagine endless loses in this tournament is doing them any good.

The loss of revenue would destroy them and the public would lose interest pretty quickly.

The IRFU missed out on the gate receipt money when Scotland and Wales refused to play over here in 72. Had England, and France, not turned up in 73 it would have had serious financial repercussions.

I know things are different now but if it happened again even missing one, or two, tournaments would equally as devastating.

salmocab

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Not really. If Italy are kicked out of the 6 Nations they'll lose out on sponsorship money as well as revenue from the TV package and attendances etc. That combined with playing a much lower standard of rugby would be a huge blow and would probably start to filter down to the club teams too.

It would also make it almost certain that any half decent player they had would play outside Italy. Lowering the standard even more.

alta stare

Former Former wrote: »

There's no point bringing in relegation because there's no one to promote.

(Georgia are significantly worse than Italy)

But surely this is part of the problem...the attitude suggesting there is no point?

Improve the second tier. Put money into it and help it grow. Plenty of lower tier competitions have lesser team who when promoted make a good stab at staying up and there is no reason why such a format could not work in the 6N.

Yeah_Right

Hermy wrote: »

I hadn't thought it out that far to be honest.
Just thinking of Italy's endless losing streak and what that must do for morale.

It must be tough on the players. I imagine they are all extremely competitive and proud and losing so often must hurt. Sergio Parisse was a fantastic player but he lost over 100 test matches. 100 games!!

prawnsambo

Yeah_Right wrote: »

It must be tough on the players. I imagine they are all extremely competitive and proud and losing so often must hurt. Sergio Parisse was a fantastic player but he lost over 100 test matches. 100 games!!

I think it was Shane Horgan who said that the big problem for Italy (and Scotland) is that they have only two professional teams feeding into the national squad. He has a point.

Stheno

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think it was Shane Horgan who said that the big problem for Italy (and Scotland) is that they have only two professional teams feeding into the national squad. He has a point.

Are Wales not similar in that they only have scarlets, ospreys and the blues?

EmmetSpiceland

Stheno wrote: »

Are Wales not similar in that they only have scarlets, ospreys and the blues?

Everyone forgets about the Dragons.

Scotland would be a better comparison, but they’re as poor as Italy these days.

stephen_n

TCM wrote: »

No not Schmidt just a poor rugby team. Irl has never gotten past 8th place in a 9 team "world cup" tournament. So what's the excuse for all the other failures.
I watched Italy v Scotland yesterday and the standard of rugby was atrocious. It's not a 6 nations tournament. At best 4 teams should be competing, the other two are 2nd rate.

Ireland have failed to crack top 4, so how have they never gotten past 8th place? So everyone from 4-8 is the exact same?

penybont exile

Another frustrating afternoon following on from two weeks ago ..... just as then we hand the opponent 7 points immediately after getting back into it.

A very eventful game played out in front of an incredible atmosphere ...... one that no other rugby ground in the world can generate.

Loads of talking points .... affecting both sides ..... overall I think France benefitted more than Wales .... but that's sport ..... we've had them in the past.

In general don't think we were bad ..... granted we made some very poor decisions during the game ...... but we were still in there at the death. Some referees may even have called the penalty at the end the other way for not releasing the tackled player ......

Onwards and upwards .... Twickers next ..... I reckon well give them a good game ....... loads of comments here about the death of Welsh rugby post WG ..... I don't see it that way .... there are plenty of good youngsters coming through. As Mark Twain said rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated .....

Well done France ..... not easy to beat us in Cardiff .... deserved win ....

Skyrimaddict

I think it's shocking it's not on RTE. Also is there not an interest conflict with Farrell snr a d jr??

salmocab

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I think it's shocking it's not on RTE. Also is there not an interest conflict with Farrell snr a d jr??

It’s on tv3, no no conflict

The Lost Sheep

alta stare wrote: »

But surely this is part of the problem...the attitude suggesting there is no point?

Improve the second tier. Put money into it and help it grow. Plenty of lower tier competitions have lesser team who when promoted make a good stab at staying up and there is no reason why such a format could not work in the 6N.

next tier of sides fo need more games against best world wide. Promotion relegation shouldn't happen yet but all sides need to play Georgia, Romania, Russia etc more often. Even travel to these countries to play sometimes. Problem with promotion and relegation is that 6nations is so vital for unions income and without it a lot of unions would be fecked.

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I think it's shocking it's not on RTE. Also is there not an interest conflict with Farrell snr a d jr??

rte couldnt outbid the others. The game is still on free to air.
No conflict with Farrell. No issue at all.

Skyrimaddict

Murray and Sexton not having good days!

Dr. Bre

Hope France do the grand slam

jacothelad

penybont exile wrote: »

Another frustrating afternoon following on from two weeks ago ..... just as then we hand the opponent 7 points immediately after getting back into it.

A very eventful game played out in front of an incredible atmosphere ...... one that no other rugby ground in the world can generate.

Loads of talking points .... affecting both sides ..... overall I think France benefitted more than Wales .... but that's sport ..... we've had them in the past.

In general don't think we were bad ..... granted we made some very poor decisions during the game ...... but we were still in there at the death. Some referees may even have called the penalty at the end the other way for not releasing the tackled player ......

Onwards and upwards .... Twickers next ..... I reckon well give them a good game ....... loads of comments here about the death of Welsh rugby post WG ..... I don't see it that way .... there are plenty of good youngsters coming through. As Mark Twain said rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated .....

Well done France ..... not easy to beat us in Cardiff .... deserved win ....

Should have been a penalty try for the slap down...and a y.c. Robbed by a crap ref.

Ardillaun

Too often, I find myself trying to explain away Welsh wins but they were excellent in defeat yesterday and were unlucky, to put it mildly, with a few of the reffing decisions. Let’s hope we play as well against the French.

prawnsambo

penybont exile wrote: »

Another frustrating afternoon following on from two weeks ago ..... just as then we hand the opponent 7 points immediately after getting back into it.

A very eventful game played out in front of an incredible atmosphere ...... one that no other rugby ground in the world can generate.

Loads of talking points .... affecting both sides ..... overall I think France benefitted more than Wales .... but that's sport ..... we've had them in the past.

In general don't think we were bad ..... granted we made some very poor decisions during the game ...... but we were still in there at the death. Some referees may even have called the penalty at the end the other way for not releasing the tackled player ......

Onwards and upwards .... Twickers next ..... I reckon well give them a good game ....... loads of comments here about the death of Welsh rugby post WG ..... I don't see it that way .... there are plenty of good youngsters coming through. As Mark Twain said rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated .....

Well done France ..... not easy to beat us in Cardiff .... deserved win ....

France turning up for an away game in the cauldron that is Cardiff with a closed roof is a rare enough sight. If they can keep it up, they have a slam in it. Our chances of beating them in Paris are pretty small. It's a rare enough thing at the best of times.

Dr. Bre

France are away to Scotland only 6 days before Ireland game. Ireland have Italy at home and the extra day rest plus the option of resting a few with France in mind. I give ireland more than a chance

lawred2

Dr. Bre wrote: »

France are away to Scotland only 6 days before Ireland game. Ireland have Italy at home and the extra day rest plus the option of resting a few with France in mind. I give ireland more than a chance

It's very difficult for even the best of Irish teams to win in Paris. I think France are more dynamic than England in attack. And they did a job on the English pack. Could be a chastening experience I fear.

prawnsambo

lawred2 wrote: »

It's very difficult for even the best of Irish teams to win in Paris. I think France are more dynamic than England in attack. And they did a job on the English pack. Could be a chastening experience I fear.

Yeah. Their only weakness is that they get a bit sloppy and throw an offload too many. But Ntamack can kick, their pack is extremely mobile and athletic and they have some of the best backs in the game. And of course Dupont.

jacothelad

There is speculation that the Ireland / Italy game is in doubt. If we can bin games because of a non-fatal cattle disease - Foot and Mouth - it's a logical step to stop a game that might cause human disease and deaths.

JF100

Wales-France:
(Just before half-time): What did Josh Adams do that prompted the Ref to say it was "inappropriate". The French were enraged..!

JF100

Wales-France:
(At full-time): Why was Dan Biggar so incensed?