Hate Speech Public Consultation

alastair

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1214/1099131-anti-racism-rally/


What is proposed probably would be in violation of both the Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights. So I don't see how Charlie Flanagan regards the proposal as workable.

That’s not what is proposed at all though. Your first mistake is believing anything out of Tracey’s mouth. For someone who managed to get a law degree, she manages to make a complete hames of understanding legislation all the time. The crime is adjudged on evidence in trial - with a burden of proof required for conviction - all that a perception allows for is the reporting of the incident.

alastair

Ironicname wrote: »

No.

Soo - a remarkable selective problem then. Gotcha.

Annasopra

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/1214/1099131-anti-racism-rally/


What is proposed probably would be in violation of both the Constitution and the European Convention on Human Rights. So I don't see how Charlie Flanagan regards the proposal as workable.

You clearly dont know what the ECHR says!!

political analyst

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You clearly dont know what the ECHR says!!

My point isn't about what the ECHR says about free speech but about what it says about the right to a fair trial. I don't think reversing the burden of proof in the proposed Irish law on hate speech would be in line with the right to a fair trial.

alastair

political analyst wrote: »

My point isn't about what the ECHR says about free speech but about what it says about the right to a fair trial. I don't think reversing the burden of proof in the proposed Irish law on hate speech would be in line with the right to a fair trial.

Again - your mistake is to listen to Tracey’s guff. Nothing good will come of it. It’s a family trait. See her brother’s whole ‘they want to teach four year olds how to masturbate’ car crash.

political analyst

alastair wrote: »

That’s not what is proposed at all though. Your first mistake is believing anything out of Tracey’s mouth. For someone who managed to get a law degree, she manages to make a complete hames of understanding legislation all the time. The crime is adjudged on evidence in trial - with a burden of proof required for conviction - all that a perception allows for is the reporting of the incident.

https://gript.ie/hate-speech-guilty-until-proven-innocent/

This week, the Government was back in front of CERD for the second time this year, to report on progress. Amongst other things, the department of justice pledged to consider “reversing the burden of proof” in relation to its proposed criminalisation of alleged “hate speech”:

Reversing the burden of proof means, in short, that you are guilty until proven innocent. In other words, when you go to court accused of hate speech, the burden will be on you to prove that your speech was not hateful.


This, naturally, will be exceedingly difficult, if not outright impossible. All it would take, in theory, is for one person to say that they heard your speech as hateful and it would be functionally impossible for you to prove it was not, because whether words are hateful is an entirely subjective matter.

alastair

political analyst wrote: »

https://gript.ie/hate-speech-guilty-until-proven-innocent/

And if you think Youth Defence are any more credible... ��

Kivaro

Bobblehats wrote: »

Apparently there’s been an abnormal amount of unhealthy ‘emmisions’ from the laboratory that is Ireland leading a UN delegate to the realisation there is an abnormal amount of NGO’s here. Which an ‘irish representative’ attempts to diffuse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahhrWAUG-Vk

all’s going swimmingly then! Just put a cap on it nothing bad can happen...

Well that video speaks volumes about our little country. Astounding.

Wait 'til the UN finds out about the amount of charities that we have in Paradise Ireland, with the vast majority of Irish NGOs/Charities partially funded by Irish workers through taxes.

political analyst

alastair wrote: »

And if you think Youth Defence are any more credible... ��

I don't want the accusation to be true but I don't want to take anything for granted either.

1800_Ladladlad

I don't know how this managed to appear on my stream considering I follow nifo wars related content :rolleyes: ffs You can see via the list provided below who are in favor. What I found odd was the likes of Trocairae and Oxfam choosing a "side".

https://twitter.com/soundmigration/status/1205562716427034628

TwoMonthsOff

Mark didn't have the bollox to show up today. What a coward.

biko

The logical fallacy of using "no pasaran" (is used mainly by soldiers) and "march for peace" in the same tweet..

Clarence Boddiker

Couple of Antifa fellas arrested today, fair play to the Gardai.

Mad_maxx

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

I don't know how this managed to appear on my stream considering I follow nifo wars related content :rolleyes: ffs You can see via the list provided below who are in favor. What I found odd was the likes of Trocairae and Oxfam choosing a "side".

https://twitter.com/soundmigration/status/1205562716427034628

That Mark Malone is a big fish amongst the extreme left activist community.

Annasopra

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Couple of Antifa fellas arrested today, fair play to the Gardai.

Lots of unsubstabtiated rumours about something yeah.

statesaver

So, people who went to a march for peace get themselves arrested. FFS

Commies were marching today for hate speech laws. My god clown fcuking world

Dick_Swiveller

Why not just round up all the right wingers in the country (there can't be that many left), bring them to a gigantic warehouse in the midlands, and make them watch an Ivana Bacik lecture on loop. Eventually they'll understand that they are in the grip of irrational views and opinions, and will hopefully embrace the correct opinions in time.

Why hasn't anyone else thought of this cost effective measure?

TheValeyard

statesaver wrote: »

So, people who went to a march for peace get themselves arrested. FFS

Commies were marching today for hate speech laws. My god clown fcuking world

These rallies for peace can easily get out of hand, Hitler had to cancel his in 1939 as he was invading Poland.

TwoMonthsOff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXqcbFspkvg

Aftermath of an attack on family on dawson street by antifa thugs. 3 men later arrested.

Rally for peace eh?

splinter65

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXqcbFspkvg

Aftermath of an attack on family on dawson street by antifa thugs. 3 men later arrested.

Rally for peace eh?

I assume the arresting Garda was wearing his hat?

https://twitter.com/darrenplymouth/status/1205844054950522880?s=21

This future “doctaaar” thinks that “warking klaaaas” people being allowed to vote is “disgusting”.
She should be charged with hate speech? Discuss.

TwoMonthsOff

splinter65 wrote: »

I assume the arresting Garda was wearing his hat?

https://twitter.com/darrenplymouth/status/1205844054950522880?s=21

This future “doctaaar” thinks that “warking klaaaas” people being allowed to vote is “disgusting”.
She should be charged with hate speech? Discuss.

Such hatred. Very unattractive.

irishproduce

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

I don't know how this managed to appear on my stream considering I follow nifo wars related content :rolleyes: ffs You can see via the list provided below who are in favor. What I found odd was the likes of Trocairae and Oxfam choosing a "side".

https://twitter.com/soundmigration/status/1205562716427034628

Jaysus how many of them groups are getting state funding. It's actually ridiculous the amount of groups around the place lobbying for things.

Clarence Boddiker

splinter65 wrote: »

This future “doctaaar” thinks that “warking klaaaas” people being allowed to vote is “disgusting”.
She should be charged with hate speech? Discuss.

Typical Bourgeoise liberal.

You'll never encounter such raw hatred, bile and vitriol directed at the working class as when the lower orders vote the 'wrong' way.
These people have wholesale taken over the left and in reality they utterly despise the working classes.

Clarence Boddiker

irishproduce wrote: »

Jaysus how many of them groups are getting state funding. It's actually ridiculous the amount of groups around the place lobbying for things.

There are over 19,500 of these groups in Ireland and they fleece the taxpayer for over 5.5 billion a year.

irishproduce

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXqcbFspkvg

Aftermath of an attack on family on dawson street by antifa thugs. 3 men later arrested.

Rally for peace eh?

You see this is what it leads to when the government folds and suggests bringing in rules that empower such people (antifa and the like).
Giving oxygen to these groups leads to this violence.
There shouldn't be counter groups out rallying. Suggesting bringing in this hate speech law mobilises the left wing groups to ratchet up the intensity. It also forces people who would be pro free speech or anti repressive thought/ speech laws to come.out and show there is another view and opinion on the matter. The left though see this as a threat to their motive and we are them presented with violence.
The government should t be suggesting such an extreme law.
There was a time when protectors of free speech were seen as brave and courageous. The message has been mangled now and it's framed as racist groups. Maybe that's the case I don't know. I hope not.
I'd be on the side of allowing freedom of speech but against allowing racists groups to spread clearly racist agendas.

alastair

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Couple of Antifa fellas arrested today, fair play to the Gardai.

And one fishwife ‘patriot’, don’t forget.

alastair

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXqcbFspkvg

Aftermath of an attack on family on dawson street by antifa thugs. 3 men later arrested.

Rally for peace eh?

As is made clear in that video - the alt-****e sister of “Ms Auntiiiifa“ was arrested. So, two gimpy looking eejits and one fishwife ‘patriot’. And the ‘patriots‘ had a grand old day falling over each other and a neglected child.

alastair

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

There are over 19,500 of these groups in Ireland and they fleece the taxpayer for over 5.5 billion a year.

(Translated - NGO bodies take on many state responsibilities, and funding is channelled through them - see Irish Aid, Homeless services provision, Training and education, civil society grants, etc). The taxpayer meets those overheads regardless of the distribution mechanism.

sabat

alastair wrote: »

(Translated - NGO bodies take on many state responsibilities, and funding is channelled through them - see Irish Aid, Homeless services provision, Training and education, civil society grants, etc). The taxpayer meets those overheads regardless of the distribution mechanism.

Could you at least offer some fair disclosure and confirm that you work for an NGO involved in immigration/asylum and are, to some extent, talking from your pocket?

suicide_circus

alastair wrote: »

And one fishwife ‘patriot’, don’t forget.

you wont get away with that kind of misogyny soon enough