Peter McVerry Trust staff and wages

Berserker5

Costs about 50x real cost to get a homeless person a bowl of soup and a blanket through peter mcverrys peter mcverry trust

1000 euro for stuff that can be bought for 20 euro

end of the road

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Retired people who want to give something back or monied people who don’t need a wage

10k homeless 120 million a year donated to charity’s

Something is not adding up

only so many of the people you suggest around who would be willing to do it, and you need staff 24 hours a day 7 days a week. sorry that is just not possible with volunteers unfortunately, if it was then it would be volunteers doing all of the work.

ShamNNspace

Far too many homeless charities here all overlapping all over the place one vying with another in order to come out with the most heartwrenching picture in order to get the most TV time and increase donations to their particular brand. How many are truly homeless (ie those those without a roof over their heads who want a roof over their heads) here and how can it be solved?
1 amalgamate all these charities and streamline them so there isn't all this overlapping of services. Far too much money spent on admin its a joke almost like its in the "charities" interest to keep the homeless industry going in perpettuity
2repeal that silly law backed by the greens which outlawed bedsits overnight. These bedsits served a purpose there are many who were quite happy to live in these places (whether we like it or not) sharing a bathroom and living out a solitary existence as long as the accommodation was clean and well maintained
3 a scheme could be introduced where a foreign national of whom there are many especially in Dublin and Cork who fell on hard times could be paid a one off grant(entirely voluntary) say 3_5k to return to their home countries. It would work out cheaper in the end
4 a state building programme to provide excellent quality housing for those in need with a 1 offer policy. Either take the property the government provide or take your chances in the rental market with the government paying a portion towards the rent

ChikiChiki

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I think what OP is getting at is that it's become an industry which means it's never in their interests to actually solve the problem because then they would be put out of business.

This is true. If the problems were fixed they would be out if business. You have to question the motivations and will of the company looking at the figures.

ThunbergsAreGo

ChikiChiki wrote: »

This is true. If the problems were fixed they would be out if business. You have to question the motivations and will of the company looking at the figures.

It's almost impossible to eradicate homelessness

There are sure solutions to reduce it, and provide more houses is probably not the highest on the list given the time it will take.

You need to look at why people are homeless and look to tackle or remove the reasons why.

The charities increasing blame the government approach helps noone, why not instead encourage homeless people families to give them a place to stay for Christmas etc.

stoneill

I think that a lot of people on this thread should spend some time working with the charities for a week or two to see the devastation of peoples lives and then comment whether it is money well spent or not.

El_Duderino 09

BDI wrote: »

What’s it all about? Restore my faith in charity on an industrial level.

How would someone do that? What exactly would a well run charity look like to you?

Maybe McVery should have staff on minimum wage zero hour contacts and give them varying hours with no hours some weeks just to keep them.on their toes. No pensions so they're likely to be poor when old too. No paid leave either and no hours for anyone who can't cone to work for BS reasons like having sickly children.

It maybe a well run charity in Dublin would pay staff a living wage considering Dublin cost of living with a pension to match. Maybe a well run charity will treat it's staff with the respect and dignity you'd hope they treat their customers.

So, how would a well run charity pay it's staff in your opinion?

El_Duderino 09

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Eh speak for yerself

37k is fantastic money

It's bang average wage in Ireland. Average in 2019 is €39,000. Dunlin is higher obviously. So its actually below average.

Mad_maxx

end of the road wrote: »

the closure of the mental institutions had nothing to do with liberals, in fact, one of the most conservative governments in modern history, the government under maggie thatcher, absolutely supported the closure of such institutions to be replaced with care in the community.
what exactly was biassed about the representation made in relation to the institutions? either what was said was factual or it wasn't. if it wasn't factual, then that would have been found out.

"care in the community" is a joke and a failure but it's clearly a fantasy solution - idea cooked up by liberals.

That thatcher was PM is irrelevant, it was Liberal lobby groups who had the old style mental institution's closed down, nothing was saved financially as the prison population rose sharply afterwards

enricoh

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Eoghan Murphy is on nearly 200k including expenses as minister for housing yet the crisis is getting worse. I would have thought for that amount of taxpayers money we would see an improvement. Instead homeless figures ( official) at its highest.

Of course the 'crisis' is getting worse. The council are handing out luxury apartments in dundrum to the won't work brigade
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMie2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmluZGVwZW5kZW50LmllL2J1c2luZXNzL2lyaXNoL2NvdW5jaWwtcGF5cy11cC10by0zMDAwLWEtbW9udGgtdG8tcmVudC1wbHVzaC1mbGF0cy1vZmYtY3Vja29vLWZ1bmQtMzg3NDAxMDcuaHRtbNIBe2h0dHBzOi8vYW1wLmluZGVwZW5kZW50LmllL2J1c2luZXNzL2lyaXNoL2NvdW5jaWwtcGF5cy11cC10by0zMDAwLWEtbW9udGgtdG8tcmVudC1wbHVzaC1mbGF0cy1vZmYtY3Vja29vLWZ1bmQtMzg3NDAxMDcuaHRtbA?hl=en-IE&gl=IE&ceid=IE%3Aen
While those that pay their way are forced on longer and longer commutes, guess what - more people are choosing the handier option!
https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/commuter-belt-buckles-as-new-homebuyers-forced-further-out-38755838.html

mariaalice

Transition away from welfare model
The welfare model has been rooted into Western developmental practices since the 20th century.[9] In the welfare model, poverty is defined as the absence of a public good or knowledge. If the state or another vehicle, such as an NGO, provides the absent good, then poverty can be alleviated and development will occur.[9] Billions of dollars have been poured into this approach, however despite some achievements there has not been success with this model. The gap between the rich and poor is widening and according to the World Development Report, nearly half of the world's population live on less than $2 a day.[9]

This model lacks a way to hold governments accountable for their actions or inaction. It fails to address governments' inability to fulfill their citizens' rights either because of funding or knowledge. It also constructs the poor as objects of charity, predetermining their roles in civic society.[10]

Due to the failures of the welfare model, NGOs reevaluated and transitioned more towards a rights-based approach to development. In this model, instead of the poor being constructed as charity they would be constructed as actors or rights holders. The NGOs' role is to help the poor overcome obstacles blocking their rights and give governments the tools and training to provide these rights.

Transition away from welfare model
The welfare model has been rooted into Western developmental practices since the 20th century.[9] In the welfare model, poverty is defined as the absence of a public good or knowledge. If the state or another vehicle, such as an NGO, provides the absent good, then poverty can be alleviated and development will occur.[9] Billions of dollars have been poured into this approach, however despite some achievements there has not been success with this model. The gap between the rich and poor is widening and according to the World Development Report, nearly half of the world's population live on less than $2 a day.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights-based_approach_to_development

To me a lot of the approches a welfare or rigtht based approach come across as the fetishising of poor people by the rich and middle classes. Welfare has not work at ending poverty and vunurability now try a right based approach which tries to hold those in athority to accounct for inequality, when that will be found to be not work in alleviating poverty and vulnerability something else will be found and so on untill the new way of doing it fails in its objectives.

El_Duderino 09

tayto lover wrote: »

Would we need 500 to service 11,000 though?
Along with all the other charities looking after the same people. All collecting money and all maybe being paid too.
Looks like an industry tbh.
A problem that people would like to keep running because when/if it’s fixed then they are out of work.

So what if it's an industry? Industries collapse all the time when they're not needed any longer. If you think a bloke on 120,000 a year is going to be so influential that he will single handedly lobby the government to halt their plans to end homelessness, the you're delusional.

You're overlooking the fact that there are so many homeless for various reasons that it requires an industrial response to give them the basics they need to survive.

I'd be of the opinion that if we manage to eliminate homelessness and 500 jobs at PMV Trust are phased out over time and those people need new jobs, then we should cross that bridge when we come to it. It seems like a much smaller and more soluble problem than all the problem of homeless people. Wouldn't you agree?

ThunbergsAreGo

On a related note is there any way to verify McVerrys story around someone being brought to court over solely the theft of a one euro bottle?

If the claim was made on here there would be people asking for links and evidence, yet the media has lapped it up

Berserker5

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

On a related note is there any way to verify McVerrys story around someone being brought to court over solely the theft of a one euro bottle?

If the claim was made on here there would be people asking for links and evidence, yet the media has lapped it up

Dunno but it wouldn't surprise. I've heard of shopkeepers following up on theft of small items

mariaalice

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

On a related note is there any way to verify McVerrys story around someone being brought to court over solely the theft of a one euro bottle?

If the claim was made on here there would be people asking for links and evidence, yet the media has lapped it up

I doubt he would be writing letter to the letter to the editor page of the Irish times if it was not true.

Peter McVerry SJ made headline news this week with the letter below that he wrote to the Irish Times published on Tuesday

Sir, – I attended court with a young homeless boy who had been charged with theft of a bottle of orange, value €1.

Another homeless man was charged with theft of four bars of chocolate, value €3.

Another homeless man was charged with theft of two packets of Silk Cut cigarettes.

A TD, on his way to, or from, his full-time, very well paid job in Brussels, stops by at Dáil Éireann to sign in so that he can collect his full €51,600 expenses for his attendance in the Dáil. – Yours, etc,

Fr PETER McVERRY SJ,
Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice,
Gardiner Street,
Dublin 1.

Beechwoodspark

I saw him give a sermon and it was powerful stuff. I have a lot of time for Father McVerry he does lot of good work

tabby aspreme

In today's Examiner , Threshold Ireland claim they kept over 11000 people out of homelessness in the past year, and they only have a budget of 2.9m.
I wonder how many decent landlords sold there houses on the overhold advice they gave to bad tenants.

suicide_circus

homelessness is a commodity

ThunbergsAreGo

mariaalice wrote: »

I doubt he would be writing letter to the letter to the editor page of the Irish times if it was not true.

Peter McVerry SJ made headline news this week with the letter below that he wrote to the Irish Times published on Tuesday

Sir, – I attended court with a young homeless boy who had been charged with theft of a bottle of orange, value €1.

Another homeless man was charged with theft of four bars of chocolate, value €3.

Another homeless man was charged with theft of two packets of Silk Cut cigarettes.

A TD, on his way to, or from, his full-time, very well paid job in Brussels, stops by at Dáil Éireann to sign in so that he can collect his full €51,600 expenses for his attendance in the Dáil. – Yours, etc,

Fr PETER McVERRY SJ,
Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice,
Gardiner Street,
Dublin 1.

I do doubt the story- or feel that story might have serious omissions.

"Charged with theft of a bottle of orange, value €1" - I would have thought this would be a story on its own as it would be such a waste of resources.

ELM327

mariaalice wrote: »

I doubt he would be writing letter to the letter to the editor page of the Irish times if it was not true.

Peter McVerry SJ made headline news this week with the letter below that he wrote to the Irish Times published on Tuesday

Sir, – I attended court with a young homeless boy who had been charged with theft of a bottle of orange, value €1.

Another homeless man was charged with theft of four bars of chocolate, value €3.

Another homeless man was charged with theft of two packets of Silk Cut cigarettes.

A TD, on his way to, or from, his full-time, very well paid job in Brussels, stops by at Dáil Éireann to sign in so that he can collect his full €51,600 expenses for his attendance in the Dáil. – Yours, etc,

Fr PETER McVERRY SJ,
Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice,
Gardiner Street,
Dublin 1.

So three criminals who stole items were charged and a man elected to office was fulfilling a legal requirement. Whats the problem?


I see three criminals and a moron who should not have been elected, but the latter is the fault of the people of cork

eviltwin

Different services provide different support to different types of people. One service may work exclusively with homeless addicts, obviously they won't be working with families. Those working with victims of domestic violence won't work with those with mental health issues etc etc

In saying that there is overlap but that's a charity thing, it's not unique to homelessness.

I'm just starting a 12 hour shift, I will have to deal with stuff if rather not be doing but that's the job. I get an okay wage it's not huge but then no one in social care does it to get rich. I love the work though and it's a privilege to do it, I just don't have the energy to try justify mine or my fellow social care workers role or salary.

El_Duderino 09

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I saw him give a sermon and it was powerful stuff. I have a lot of time for Father McVerry he does lot of good work

I'm not Christian but his work is very much in the line of the Jesus character from the Bible.

People will say they dislike homelessness but they also really dislike someone like PMV who shows them up for how much amazing work he does. He gets through an amazing amount of unglamorous work and helps so many people who are in need of help.

The levels people stoop to criticise him shows how far people have to stoop to criticise him. But the interesting thing is WHY people feel the need to stoop that low in the first place. Take this thread for example. Nobody is suggesting he’s actually done anything wrong like embezzlement or living the high life on his charity. The criticism is that he employs lots of people and pays them a decent (average) wage while they do great work helping the homeless.

That’s a good news story from start to finish but it’s being told as if there’s something wrong with it. The really interesting thing is why people feel the need to have a pop at PMV in the first place.

salmocab

ELM327 wrote: »

So three criminals who stole items were charged and a man elected to office was fulfilling a legal requirement. Whats the problem?


I see three criminals and a moron who should not have been elected, but the latter is the fault of the people of cork

A lot of this goes on these days, the two things aren’t related but it makes for good sound bytes and importantly click bait. Mc Verry was clever making this point but in reality it’s irrelevant. If they stole things then they should be dealt with accordingly.

mariaalice

suicide_circus wrote: »

homelessness is a commodity

Yes of course, that does not mean the homeless do not need support which involves someone employing people to support them.

This is possibly a bit of an eccentric notion but in Dublin, it could be linked back to the famine enormous amount of people pored in to Dublin at the time people who were very poor and had few supports. After the act of union Dublin declined significantly there was not the employment to support the population thousands lived in tenements joining the British army or very insecure jobs day laboring.

A huge amount of intergenerational unemployment developed and from that all sorts of social problems developed combine that with the closer of the industrial schools and mental hospitals and the lack of building social housing its easy to see where the problems have come from.

What to do about is a different issue.

ELM327

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I'm not Christian but his work is very much in the line of the Jesus character from the Bible.

People will say they dislike homelessness but they also really dislike someone like PMV who shows them up for how much amazing work he does. He gets through an amazing amount of unglamorous work and helps so many people who are in need of help.

The levels people stoop to criticise him shows how far people have to stoop to criticise him. But the interesting thing is WHY people feel the need to stoop that low in the first place. Take this thread for example. Nobody is suggesting he’s actually done anything wrong like embezzlement or living the high life on his charity. The criticism is that he employs lots of people and pays them a decent (average) wage while they do great work helping the homeless.

That’s a good news story from start to finish but it’s being told as if there’s something wrong with it. The really interesting thing is why people feel the need to have a pop at PMV in the first place.

I'm described as a militant atheist by some, I absolutely despise organised religion in all its forms.
The man is a saint for the work he does and I couldnt have any more praise for him. Homelessness is an issue close to my heart for personal reasons and I can't speak highly enough of anyone who does that work.

Mad_maxx

mariaalice wrote: »

Transition away from welfare model
The welfare model has been rooted into Western developmental practices since the 20th century.[9] In the welfare model, poverty is defined as the absence of a public good or knowledge. If the state or another vehicle, such as an NGO, provides the absent good, then poverty can be alleviated and development will occur.[9] Billions of dollars have been poured into this approach, however despite some achievements there has not been success with this model. The gap between the rich and poor is widening and according to the World Development Report, nearly half of the world's population live on less than $2 a day.[9]

This model lacks a way to hold governments accountable for their actions or inaction. It fails to address governments' inability to fulfill their citizens' rights either because of funding or knowledge. It also constructs the poor as objects of charity, predetermining their roles in civic society.[10]

Due to the failures of the welfare model, NGOs reevaluated and transitioned more towards a rights-based approach to development. In this model, instead of the poor being constructed as charity they would be constructed as actors or rights holders. The NGOs' role is to help the poor overcome obstacles blocking their rights and give governments the tools and training to provide these rights.

Transition away from welfare model
The welfare model has been rooted into Western developmental practices since the 20th century.[9] In the welfare model, poverty is defined as the absence of a public good or knowledge. If the state or another vehicle, such as an NGO, provides the absent good, then poverty can be alleviated and development will occur.[9] Billions of dollars have been poured into this approach, however despite some achievements there has not been success with this model. The gap between the rich and poor is widening and according to the World Development Report, nearly half of the world's population live on less than $2 a day.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights-based_approach_to_development

To me a lot of the approches a welfare or rigtht based approach come across as the fetishising of poor people by the rich and middle classes. Welfare has not work at ending poverty and vunurability now try a right based approach which tries to hold those in athority to accounct for inequality, when that will be found to be not work in alleviating poverty and vulnerability something else will be found and so on untill the new way of doing it fails in its objectives.

The NGO sector are a borderline fifth column at this stage, they appear to want all the power of politicians without the hassle of getting elected, they also have plants all over the media, beit colette browne or Ellen coyne, shona Murray, the NGO operatives are inserted everywhere

corner of hells

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The NGO sector are a borderline fifth column at this stage, they appear to want all the power of politicians without the hassle of getting elected, they also have plants all over the media, beit colette browne or Ellen coyne, shona Murray, the NGO operatives are inserted everywhere

I've heard some NGO staff can teleport themselves , are 7 foot tall , breathe fire and never sleep.

mariaalice

Peter McVerry dose a good job, but he can come across as almost a caricature of himself at time.

I like Alice Leahy she comes across as sensible, no-nonsense and down to earth.

Earthhorse

Deleted User wrote: »

Well a certain media cohort purporting to have left or liberal views seems to speak as if to give the impression.

Fair enough but I honestly don't know what media that is.

I think most people really do know in their hearts it’s horribly complex. I am certainly the last to know any solutions.

Yeah, me too.

Deleted User wrote: »

Speaking of people with degrees, having a PhD in the Fine Arts of 17th Century Japan would hardly be useful when organising a roster for hostel workers. One has to presume when talking about degrees it has to be one directly relevant for the job to be of consequence as far as financially rewarding a charity employee. No good imagining a graduate of Biblical Aramaic is worth a cent more for a job where no knowledge is not called for.

Honestly, I don't know anyone with such obscure qualifications and I doubt many people do. This is a common talking point on the right but it doesn't seem to be thought through. The truth is many positions (in the workplace in general) don't need degrees. You certainly wouldn't need a degree to organise a roster; just being organised and conscientious should be enough. Many people I know, including myself, work in a job not directly related to their degree. Mine is in commerce but I work as a programmer. One of the highest earners I know of personally has a degree in philosophy. Life isn't really so cut and dried.

Geuze

weldoninhio wrote: »

37k is the average. There’ll be some on a lot less and some on an awful lot more.

Yes.

Average earnings are 768.14 pw, or nearly 40k.

See here:

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/elcq/earningsandlabourcostsq22019finalq32019preliminaryestimates/