Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

ZiabR

Great race, rain gave us some of the most exciting racing this season. I am a Red Bull man and I really think Verstappen is something special but again, an unforced error on his part cost him the podium. His youth is still his biggest enemy. He was getting so impatient behind Checo that he made the mistake of being too close in a high speed corner.

He seems to have made a few mistakes this year. He looked amazing in Practice but again it didn't translate in the race. If he just took his time I am sure he would have finished 2nd or maybe even won? As for Albon, I thought it was one of his stronger drives, he completed some decent overtaking and the team leaving him out on Slick Inters caused the spin. I still think Red Bull need to grow some balls and make the change the team need. They need a proper number 2 so that they can gather the points to challenge for the constructors next year. Surely signing Checo for 2 years is the right call at this stage.

Still makes me laugh when I see Lance keeping his seat over Checo because Daddy owns the team... Its such a bad thing for the sport. Checo is by far the better driver. Keeping weaker drivers for the wrong reasons... but F1 will never learn.

As for Hamilton, he drove an immense race. I don't particularly like him outside of the sport but what he does on the track still has me in awe. The experience to just play the race safe, not taking any unnecessary chances and let the race come to him. He deserves his 7th title and now holds just about every record there is in F1. I see him signing with Merc for another 2 seasons.

Other drivers that stood out for me, Vettel. Drove an amazing race and it was like watching the Vettel of old. Delighted to see him on the podium and thought it was a really nice touch to see him at Hamilton's car for a few minutes congratulating him. Great maturity and professionalism. Leclerc drove a very strong race aswell.

cadaliac

ZiabR wrote: »

Great race, rain gave us some of the most exciting racing this season. I am a Red Bull man and I really think Verstappen is something special but again, an unforced error on his part cost him the podium. His youth is still his biggest enemy. He was getting so impatient behind Checo that he made the mistake of being too close in a high speed corner.

He seems to have made a few mistakes this year. He looked amazing in Practice but again it didn't translate in the race. If he just took his time I am sure he would have finished 2nd or maybe even won? As for Albon, I thought it was one of his stronger drives, he completed some decent overtaking and the team leaving him out on Slick Inters caused the spin. I still think Red Bull need to grow some balls and make the change the team need. They need a proper number 2 so that they can gather the points to challenge for the constructors next year. Surely signing Checo for 2 years is the right call at this stage.

Still makes me laugh when I see Lance keeping his seat over Checo because Daddy owns the team... Its such a bad thing for the sport. Checo is by far the better driver. Keeping weaker drivers for the wrong reasons... but F1 will never learn.

As for Hamilton, he drove an immense race. I don't particularly like him outside of the sport but what he does on the track still has me in awe. The experience to just play the race safe, not taking any unnecessary chances and let the race come to him. He deserves his 7th title and now holds just about every record there is in F1. I see him signing with Merc for another 2 seasons.

Other drivers that stood out for me, Vettel. Drove an amazing race and it was like watching the Vettel of old. Delighted to see him on the podium and thought it was a really nice touch to see him at Hamilton's car for a few minutes congratulating him. Great maturity and professionalism. Leclerc drove a very strong race aswell.

Agree and have to echo your Hamilton point. While I too wouldn't be his biggest fan (off track) - credit where credit is due.
He drove and waited for the track conditions to change, took no unnecessary risks and showed why he is a champion again. His on track - in race decision making is unrivaled.
I really wanted to be happy for him but ended up turning off the channel when he started the single fist in the air bullsh1t and I just couldn't be listening to him.
I really hope the Merc's aren't as dominant next year and Ferrari get it together. LeClerc and Max will hopefully be a lot closer. Well, here's hoping.

ZiabR

cadaliac wrote: »

Agree and have to echo your Hamilton point. While I too wouldn't be his biggest fan (off track) - credit where credit is due.
He drove and waited for the track conditions to change, took no unnecessary risks and showed why he is a champion again. His on track - in race decision making is unrivaled.
I really wanted to be happy for him but ended up turning off the channel when he started the single fist in the air bullsh1t and I just couldn't be listening to him.
I really hope the Merc's aren't as dominant next year and Ferrari get it together. LeClerc and Max will hopefully be a lot closer. Well, here's hoping.

We know Ferrari and Honda have new engines for next year so lets hope they can push Merc.

El_Duderino 09

cadaliac wrote: »

Agree and have to echo your Hamilton point. While I too wouldn't be his biggest fan (off track) - credit where credit is due.
He drove and waited for the track conditions to change, took no unnecessary risks and showed why he is a champion again. His on track - in race decision making is unrivaled.
I really wanted to be happy for him but ended up turning off the channel when he started the single fist in the air bullsh1t and I just couldn't be listening to him.
I really hope the Merc's aren't as dominant next year and Ferrari get it together. LeClerc and Max will hopefully be a lot closer. Well, here's hoping.

Yeah I’d agree with that. I don’t like Hamilton but he’s an excellent driver.

Best we can hope for next year is the battle for second being closer. A battle between max, LeClerc, Bottas and Ric would be good to watch. Bottas is an excellent qualifier though, so I’d expect him to start in front of the challengers the majority of the time.

But we’re really just biding our time until the 2022 regulation changes.

Joeface

After a dismal season with a crap car , All of a sudden Ferrari could still end up third in the Constructors .

now its out side chance , But if they can secure 4th and 6th place for the last 3 races that would grab 60 constructors points leaving them on 190 for the season . Its asking a lot , more a lot of Vettel to turn up in full ( a bit like yesterday where he was I think one of 2 drivers not to go off the track at any point ) . I do think Charles could pull off the 4th places as he is better in the current Ferrari .

what a difference on set of race results make , Before yesterday they were in danger of been over taken by Alpha Tauri , now on the heals of Renault and Mclaren with an outside of Racing point .

AMKC

So what is the next race then? It's in two weeks time I take it.

Jordan 199

AMKC wrote: »

So what is the next race then? It's in two weeks time I take it.

Bahrain in two weeks time. Two back to back races there this year.

LollipopJimmy

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

How can you make the argument that the rain is a great leveller based on this weekend’s results? Is Stroll the best driver over one lap? Are both Alfas in the top 10 fastest?

Out of the race finishers, is it just coincidence that the majority of teammates finished next to each other or do you think it’s the car? 14 teammates finished and 8of them finished next to each other.

At the front was a Mercedes and at the back were Russell and Kimi in the worst cars.

Stroll was doing great until the last set of tyres which he couldn’t heat up. Was he cream in the first half and not cream in the second half? Max had a poor race. Is he not amongst the cream of the crop?

I think it’s much easier to just say the rain is a leveller than to form an argument based on this weekend’s quali and race. The cars were the most influential factor again and tgh best car seemed to change as the race progressed and the track dried. On the wetter track the RPs looked the best. On the dryer track their advantage was diminished.

It was an extraordinary set of conditions which none of the cars were specifically build to deal with. There was some randomness around which car was most suited to conditions as the conditions changed.

I was referring to the race, in changeable conditions qualifying isnt an equal playing field, it depends when on track and how dry it is, minutes can make a huge difference whereas in a race they're all out at the same time.

Hamilton, cruised his way through with little drama, couple of wide entries and exits but calm and in control.

Lance fell down the field, managing tyres is part of being a driver and he simply couldn't do it and then lost his cool. Dropping from 1st to finish just inside the points is laughable.

Max's biggest weakness was shown up and magnified, his impatience cost him big time. He finished 6th, I would have said that the top 6 yesterday are (in no particular order) are arguably the best 6 drivers on the grid.

Maybe Danny Ric could edge one of them out

The two Ferrari drivers are known to be top drivers but in substandard machinery and finished higher than they have all season.

I'm on my phone and the screen is cracked apologies for typos

El_Duderino 09

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I was referring to the race, in changeable conditions qualifying isnt an equal playing field, it depends when on track and how dry it is, minutes can make a huge difference whereas in a race they're all out at the same time.

Hamilton, cruised his way through with little drama, couple of wide entries and exits but calm and in control.

Lance fell down the field, managing tyres is part of being a driver and he simply couldn't do it and then lost his cool. Dropping from 1st to finish just inside the points is laughable.

Max's biggest weakness was shown up and magnified, his impatience cost him big time. He finished 6th, I would have said that the top 6 yesterday are (in no particular order) are arguably the best 6 drivers on the grid.

Maybe Danny Ric could edge one of them out

The two Ferrari drivers are known to be top drivers but in substandard machinery and finished higher than they have all season.

I'm on my phone and the screen is cracked apologies for typos

How do you explain the majority of teammates qualifying close and finishing the race next to each other if not because of the car's suitability to the extraordinary conditions?

Also, Lance had a very mixed day. On the full wets he was easily the fastest of all and Perez was second or third fastest. As the track dried, the advantage moved away from them both and towards Hamilton. That suggest the car and conditions are the biggest factors to me.

I think driver skill is always important and not making a balls of it in the rain is key (Bottas vs Hamilton), but i think it's very hard to explain the RPs being at the front and Vettel being suddenly as fast as Leclerc, without concluding that the cars were a huge factor and probably the biggest factor.

Man with broke phone

Perez was slowly catching Stroll. He was taking a couple of hundreths a second out of him until Stroll fell off a cliff as far as I remember. Then Perez had a 4.7(iirc) pit stop.

El_Duderino 09

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Perez was slowly catching Stroll. He was taking a couple of hundreths a second out of him until Stroll fell off a cliff as far as I remember. Then Perez had a 4.7(iirc) pit stop.

Ok. So Stroll and Perez were out front 10+ seconds ahead of third and within hundredths of a second of each other in full wet conditions. And is the argument that that was the cream rising to the top as they're two of the fastest drivers in the whole field. Or was it the car that gave them an advantage in the full wet conditions and that advantage ebbed away as the track dried? It looks pretty clear to me. I'm pretty sure nobody accuses either of them of being among the fastest few drivers

Frank Bullitt

It would be a real tragedy if Perez is not on the grid next year. He clearly still has a lot of skill to give, so Red Bull...hurry up and give him a call.

chicorytip

recyclebin wrote: »

I think Perez could have had a seat at Williams, Haas or Alfa if he really wanted but he didn't want to end his F1 career at the back of the grid and he is holding out for that Red Bull seat. If he doesn't get the Red Bull seat then their could be better opportunities in 2022. There could be one or two seats at Mercedes or maybe a seat at Renault.

Have Red Bull ever recruited an established driver from another team outside of their "stable"?

Frank Bullitt

chicorytip wrote: »

Have Red Bull ever recruited an established driver from another team outside of their "stable"?

Is Mark Webber the last one? That is all I can think of (and I might be totally wrong on that).

Harika

Gintonious wrote: »

Is Mark Webber the last one? That is all I can think of (and I might be totally wrong on that).

Yes, and before they went external they unburied Hartley.
Brundle said on Sunday that red Bull has to look into the mirror why they are burning through talent so quickly.
Also verstappen spun twice if I am not mistaken

Cork Trucker

David Coulthard in their maiden campaign in 2005 and Mark Webber in 2007 are the only external recruitments I think

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

David Coulthard in their maiden campaign in 2005 and Mark Webber in 2007 are the only external recruitments I think

They’ve brought through a lot of drivers in that time. They haven’t all been quality but they’ve had Vettel, Ric and Max. They what also had a lot of lads who didn’t make it. Once they’re dropped they have lost their only real sponsor so they’re fcuked.

donspeekinglesh

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Once they’re dropped they have lost their only real sponsor so they’re fcuked.

They don't drop them all, at least not straight away. Buemi and Hartley are both still active Red Bull athletes. As is Neel Jani, who only made it as far as STR test driver in F1.

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

Didn't he deliberately ram into Sirotkin too or was that another driver? Hulk could be a better number 2 for RBR.

Bingo!
Singapore 2018 popped up in my suggestions, he put Ocon (team mate) into the wall at turn 3 then later on rammed Sirotkin for no reason.

Man with broke phone

Red Bull need an experienced driver if new car under new rules needs to be built.

Very few available with that experience still in their prime.

Faugheen

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They’ve brought through a lot of drivers in that time. They haven’t all been quality but they’ve had Vettel, Ric and Max. They what also had a lot of lads who didn’t make it. Once they’re dropped they have lost their only real sponsor so they’re fcuked.

They’ve also let some go way too early. Sainz, Vergne, Buemi to name a few, no doubt Gasly will be another one.

jv2000

Faugheen wrote: »

They’ve also let some go way too early. Sainz, Vergne, Buemi to name a few, no doubt Gasly will be another one.

Agreed. With Sainz it was somewhat out of their hands though. He was having comparable results to Verstappen in the Torro Roso when they decided to promote Max. With Daniel Ric already in RB then Sainz probably saw no future at RB. And of course the bumper contract and favoritism shown to Max ultimately led to Daniel leaving RB..... So their treatment of Max actually lost them the 2 best drivers they had that could actually compete with Max.

El_Duderino 09

Faugheen wrote: »

They’ve also let some go way too early. Sainz, Vergne, Buemi to name a few, no doubt Gasly will be another one.

And they’ve held on to Kvyat for way too long. Considering they’re probably going to get rid of Gasley in fewer years than Kvyat, their selection process seems random. It’s probably influenced by the drivers coming behind and Lvyat must have hit on a period when they didn’t have much coming behind him. Kvyat is a lucky boy.

On the topic of RB going outside the family, Kvyat was Ferrari reserve and simulator driver for a while (maybe 2018). Then they got him back afterwards. I wonder if he was Ferrari’s Red Bull man or Red Bull’s man at Ferrari.

LollipopJimmy

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. So Stroll and Perez were out front 10+ seconds ahead of third and within hundredths of a second of each other in full wet conditions. And is the argument that that was the cream rising to the top as they're two of the fastest drivers in the whole field. Or was it the car that gave them an advantage in the full wet conditions and that advantage ebbed away as the track dried? It looks pretty clear to me. I'm pretty sure nobody accuses either of them of being among the fastest few drivers

I dont know if you're taking me up wrong or what, you're going on about stroll, I'm not, he fell off. Let's take the top 6. That top 6 after a mental race is quite possibly the best 6 there are in F1 at the moment, 5 of them definitely.

The phrase 'the cream rises to the top' is meant as when all is said and done the best still come out on top at the end. Youre using Stroll to counter my point, a lad that finished 9th iirc.

El_Duderino 09

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I dont know if you're taking me up wrong or what, you're going on about stroll, I'm not, he fell off. Let's take the top 6. That top 6 after a mental race is quite possibly the best 6 there are in F1 at the moment, 5 of them definitely.

The phrase 'the cream rises to the top' is meant as when all is said and done the best still come out on top at the end. Youre using Stroll to counter my point, a lad that finished 9th iirc.

The lad qualified on poll in wet conditions, lead the race comfortably in full wet conditions and fell away when he couldn’t switch on his tyres in the last stint. If not for that he would probably have won. To ignore the events of the race is silly. So too is ignoring the recent form and using one topsy-turvy race to fudge who the best drivers are.

Some of those top 6 are marginal. Is Perez top 6 on the grid? Is Ric not top 6? And there’s no way you’re going to form an argument that Vettel is top 6 based on the last 2 years of performance (Vettel had a very good race however).

You’re ignoring the fact that the majority of teammates finished quali near each other and finished the race next to each other. They can’t simply be brushed over.

It was a crazy race. None of the cars were designed with those conditions in mind and some cars worked better than others and it changed as the conditions changed. Very little to be learned from it. Entertaining race though.

Roger the cabin boy

Hamilton ran a magnificent race as he usually does. A very worthy winner. His tyre management is fantastic.

I'd like to see him do a season with Ferrari. If not next year as #1, then the year after as perhaps a #2 and mentor to Le clerc.

El_Duderino 09

Roger the cabin boy wrote: »

Hamilton ran a magnificent race as he usually does. A very worthy winner. His tyre management is fantastic.

I'd like to see him do a season with Ferrari. If not next year as #1, then the year after as perhaps a #2 and mentor to Le clerc.

Yeah this was one of the rare occasions where his car didn't seem suited to the conditions and he really had to earn he win.

Zero change of him moving to Ferrari to mentor another driver. That's just not how it works. Would be great to see him in a car that isn't the best though. We've all seen what he can o in the best car - win almost every race and championship

Faugheen

I feel like Hamilton’s best chance at cementing his legacy was going to Ferrari next year to win #8.

If Ferrari’s performance hadn’t dropped off a cliff from last year, you have to wonder was there a possibility.

Jordan 199

Faugheen wrote: »

I feel like Hamilton’s best chance at cementing his legacy was going to Ferrari next year to win #8.

If Ferrari’s performance hadn’t dropped off a cliff from last year, you have to wonder was there a possibility.

I would have liked to have seen him at Ferrari in a race winning/championship winning car. I would be happy to see him there just to see him win races.

H3llR4iser

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Max's biggest weakness was shown up and magnified, his impatience cost him big time. He finished 6th, I would have said that the top 6 yesterday are (in no particular order) are arguably the best 6 drivers on the grid.

Max's impatience is an issue that had never surfaced this season because he's practically been racing in a void in 3rd place all the time. He's in his 6th season, so the argument of "inexperience" can't really be applied anymore.

Sometimes I wonder if the whole media banging the drum of the "wonderkid", "once in 30 years talent" and so on isn't playing a part into this. The fact he was gonna spin or put it in the wall, yesterday, was apparent in the way he placed the car on track since the moment he was stuck behind Vettel.

Hamilton on the other hand, put in a masterclass - damage limitation when the car wouldn't work the tires well, and as soon as he got some grip, he disappeared into the distance.

Ferrari, they could've taken the risk of slicks, especially with Seb, it might have won them the race; Yet in hindsight, 3rd and 4th is a super result considering the season...