Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Why does he need to be given the right car to drive fast? He's given the same car as LeClerc and can't drive as fast as him. If he needs to be given a car thst suits him to perform, then he's got a serious weakness as a driver. When you combine thst with the fact thst he blew his shot at the 2018 championship (when he had a fast car) by his own errors, it looks pretty bad for him.

I don't know if he's done and dusted. His form would suggest he's done and dusted but he used to be fast so it's hard to know if he's

I don't think it's too early to assume LeClerc is going to beat Vettel. I'd say the margin won't even close. I'd say LeClerc will power ahead and outscore Vettel between now and the end of the season. Vettel's having a nightmare. The best wishful thinking is that it will all turn around when he changes team.

You mean Hamilton is winning all these titles in a car that doesn't suit him?

It is absolutely too soon to assume Leclerc will beat Vettel by a big margin, that is, if Ferrari don't do the dirt on Vettel and concentrate on Charles, which they obviously are doing already.

As for being done and dusted.
I think people giving him millions to drive for them would know a bit more about that than you or I.

But,
Time will tell.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

You mean Hamilton is winning all these titles in a car that doesn't suit him?

It is absolutely too soon to assume Leclerc will beat Vettel by a big margin, that is, if Ferrari don't do the dirt on Vettel and concentrate on Charles, which they obviously are doing already.

As for being done and dusted.
I think people giving him millions to drive for them would know a bit more about that than you or I.

But,
Time will tell.

We don't know if the car particularly suits Hamilton. We know it's a very fast car alright.

But we also know Thrt the ferrari didn't suit LeClerc last year. Nor did the sauber suit him the year before. So what did he do? Did he throw his ha da up and wait for people to use the car as his excuse? Nope, he adapted his driving style, twice at a very early stage of his career. Vettel has failed to adapt to this car and that has to be a double weakness. First that his style prevents him from driving this car well (Certainly not as well as LeClerc) and secondly that he has failed to adapt to the car as his teammate has done.

What evidence do you have that ferrari is doing the dirt on vettel and favouring LeClerc?

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We don't know if the car particularly suits Hamilton. We know it's a very fast car alright.

But we also know Thrt the ferrari didn't suit LeClerc last year. Nor did the sauber suit him the year before. So what did he do? Did he throw his ha da up and wait for people to use the car as his excuse? Nope, he adapted his driving style, twice at a very early stage of his career. Vettel has failed to adapt to this car and that has to be a double weakness. First that his style prevents him from driving this car well (Certainly not as well as LeClerc) and secondly that he has failed to adapt to the car as his teammate has done.

What evidence do you have that ferrari is doing the dirt on vettel and favouring LeClerc?

Are you on another planet or something? :pac:

Actually the level of downforce suits Leclercs driving style perfectly and not Vettel's.

As for Ferrari doing the dirt on Vettel!
It is as plain as the nose on your face what is going on. Vettel has been cut out.

But, as I have already said. Time will tell, hopefully the Aston Martin will suit Vettel's driving style and he will prove his worth.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Are you on another planet or something? :pac:

Actually the level of downforce suits Leclercs driving style perfectly and not Vettel's.

As for Ferrari doing the dirt on Vettel!
It is as plain as the nose on your face what is going on. Vettel has been cut out.

But, as I have already said. Time will tell, hopefully the Aston Martin will suit Vettel's driving style and he will prove his worth.

What exactly is obvious about ferrari's treatment of Vettel? I know they've decided not to give him a seat next year but surely were not suggesting that's any excuse for his lack of pace.

So what ways have ferrari done the dirty on vettel specifically and not leclerc? Both have had terrible strategies, LeClerc has been out on soft tyres in a race when nobody else used them all weekend because they were both terrible and wore quickly that weekend

Also, how do you know LeClerc likes high downforce cars? He adapted to last year's (also high downforce) car which didn't suit his style so he adapted his style to suit the car.

muckwarrior

muckwarrior wrote: »

I think that's just the attitude of a vocal minority who refuse to acknowledge that Vettel isn't as good as his 4 Championships would suggest he is.

As I was saying...

vectra

muckwarrior wrote: »

As I was saying...

vectra wrote: »

But, as I have already said. Time will tell,.

As I was also saying.

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

As I was also saying.

Time is telling us loads. Depends on whether we listen or not.

Yeah but also say some of the ways ferrari is doing the dirty to Vettel and how it is fair to say it's a mitigating factor in his poor performance. You said its as plain as the nose on your face, so should be no bother to list the ways.

This is it

Vettel in decline, Vettel not giving a f**k because he's leaving/wasn't renewed or Vettel being held back by an inferior car (with regards to Vettel v LeClerc).

Which is it? I certainly don't know and I don't believe anyone else here does either. We can have opinions but nothing is obvious in my opinion.

El_Duderino 09

This is it wrote: »

Vettel in decline, Vettel not giving a f**k because he's leaving/wasn't renewed or Vettel being held back by an inferior car (with regards to Vettel v LeClerc).

Which is it? I certainly don't know and I don't believe anyone else here does either. We can have opinions but nothing is obvious in my opinion.

Sure, But in the absence of any evidence, why are people assuming Leclerc is getting better machinery or whatever the conspiracy is? What we do know is that Leclerc was faster last year and he's faster again this year. Inventing reasons that are "as plain as the nose on your face" is easy but articulating what those reasons are seems to be much more difficult. And that's pretty odd, when you think about it.

I think it's incredible that all this talk of Ferrari treating Vettel terribly and that explains his poor performance, has gone unchallenged. It's grown legs and it is just accepted But i wonder if anyone who thinks it's a valid explanation for Vettel's poor performances and deficit to Leclerc, will be able to articulate the reasons.

This is it

I agree.

AMKC

I do think that Leckerc is faster than Vettel and that the Ferrari car the last two years has either been easier for Leclerc to adapt to or suited him better than Vettel. I also think that since Vertels contract was not renewed with Ferrari that he is just phoning it in new. He does not really care at the moment and just wants this year to be over so he can be out of tha car. Next year will either be a good one or a very bad one for Vettel. If Lance Stroll beats Vettol next year than that will be bad but if Vettel beats Stroll and even gets some wins that will be good for him and for Aston Martin too.
About that. I heard that BWT have taking more shares in Racing Point. Is this true or not and if it is then what does it mean for the colour of that car next year? Will it be pink or green?

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

I do think that Leckerc is faster than Vettel and that the Ferrari car the last two years has either been easier for Leclerc to adapt to or suited him better than Vettel. I also think that since Vertels contract was not renewed with Ferrari that he is just phoning it in new. He does not really care at the moment and just wants this year to be over so he can be out of tha car. Next year will either be a good one or a very bad one for Vettel. If Lance Stroll beats Vettol next year than that will be bad but if Vettel beats Stroll and even gets some wins that will be good for him and for Aston Martin too.
About that. I heard that BWT have taking more shares in Racing Point. Is this true or not and if it is then what does it mean for the colour of that car next year? Will it be pink or green?

Or perhaps LeClerc is an adaptable driver who as actively adapted to the car better than Vettel. You'd think a driver with Vettel's experience would become much more adaptable as his career has gone on but he has been out-adapted by le leclerc in only his second and third seasons in f1.

What if Vettel is about equal with stroll at and end of the season and finishes a small margin ahead of stroll? Then what will be the assessment of his and strolls speed?

I think the assumption that he's phoning it in is unfounded and is a very cheap way to ignore the evidence that Vettel is on a run of poor form from about mid 2018. Has he been phoning it in since then, do you think?

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Or perhaps LeClerc is an adaptable driver who as actively adapted to the car better than Vettel. You'd think a driver with Vettel's experience would become much more adaptable as his career has gone on but he has been out-adapted by le leclerc in only his second and third seasons in f1.

What if Vettel is about equal with stroll at and end of the season and finishes a small margin ahead of stroll? Then what will be the assessment of his and strolls speed?

I think the assumption that he's phoning it in is unfounded and is a very cheap way to ignore the evidence that Vettel is on a run of poor form from about mid 2018. Has he been phoning it in since then, do you think?

You'd think a driver with Vettel's experience would become much more adaptable as his career has gone on but he has been out-adapted by le leclerc in only his second and third seasons in f1.

If they are close at the end then they are equal but if they are ahead of Ferrari including Leclerc next year it will show a lot of it's got to do with the car too.

Yes but then Vettel raced with what was essentially Red Bull for the first part of his career with cars designed to suit him well at Red Bull anyway maybe not when he was at Torra Rossa and Ferrari is really only the 2nd team he has raced with and maybe there ways just did not suit him.

Ye maybe and maybe it has just been bad form.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

You'd think a driver with Vettel's experience would become much more adaptable as his career has gone on but he has been out-adapted by le leclerc in only his second and third seasons in f1.

If they are close at the end then they are equal but if they are ahead of Ferrari including Leclerc next year it will show a lot of it's got to do with the car too.

Yes but then Vettel raced with what was essentially Red Bull for the first part of his career with cars designed to suit him well at Red Bull anyway maybe not when he was at Torra Rossa and Ferrari is really only the 2nd team he has raced with and maybe there ways just did not suit him.

Ye maybe and maybe it has just been bad form.

What do you call bad form when it goes on for 2and a half years?

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure, But in the absence of any evidence, why are people assuming Leclerc is getting better machinery or whatever the conspiracy is? What we do know is that Leclerc was faster last year and he's faster again this year. Inventing reasons that are "as plain as the nose on your face" is easy but articulating what those reasons are seems to be much more difficult. And that's pretty odd, when you think about it.

I think it's incredible that all this talk of Ferrari treating Vettel terribly and that explains his poor performance, has gone unchallenged. It's grown legs and it is just accepted But i wonder if anyone who thinks it's a valid explanation for Vettel's poor performances and deficit to Leclerc, will be able to articulate the reasons.

Says the fellow that blatently said Ferrari were cheating last year with zero evidence.:rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09

vectra wrote: »

Says the fellow that blatently said Ferrari were cheating last year with zero evidence.:rolleyes:

Sure. So is there any evidence or not? A few posts ago it was "as plain as the nose on your face". So should be easy to show what you mean.

vectra

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. So is there any evidence or not? A few posts ago it was "as plain as the nose on your face". So should be easy to show what you mean.

And here you go again,
Evading a long ongoing question.

/ Bye.:rolleyes:

This is it

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. So is there any evidence or not? A few posts ago it was "as plain as the nose on your face". So should be easy to show what you mean.

You ignore the question for evidence of Ferrari cheating, hypocrisy at it's finest to demand evidence whilst avoiding the same request over the last few weeks.

El_Duderino 09

This is it wrote: »

You ignore the question for evidence of Ferrari cheating, hypocrisy at it's finest to demand evidence whilst avoiding the same request over the last few weeks.

vectra wrote: »

And here you go again,
Evading a long ongoing question.

/ Bye.:rolleyes:

Oh no worries. Buy if you don't have evidence, just say so. I told you countless times that I don't have evidence for ferrari cheating. Be an adult and do the same.

I think this shows what's going on with Vettel. The narrative that Vettel's terrible form is all ferrari's fault has just been accepted to the point that some even think it's "as plain as the nose on your face. But they can't actuality remember the reasons why when asked. All they have to say is; but whatabout...

I said when I didn't have evidence. So it would behove you to do the same

skipper_G

AMKC wrote: »

I do think that Leckerc is faster than Vettel and that the Ferrari car the last two years has either been easier for Leclerc to adapt to or suited him better than Vettel. I also think that since Vertels contract was not renewed with Ferrari that he is just phoning it in new. He does not really care at the moment and just wants this year to be over so he can be out of tha car. Next year will either be a good one or a very bad one for Vettel. If Lance Stroll beats Vettol next year than that will be bad but if Vettel beats Stroll and even gets some wins that will be good for him and for Aston Martin too.
About that. I heard that BWT have taking more shares in Racing Point. Is this true or not and if it is then what does it mean for the colour of that car next year? Will it be pink or green?

Stroll mentioned in the presser today he expects the car will be British racing green

pjohnson

How do people still fall for it ffs

GarIT

skipper_G wrote: »

Stroll mentioned in the presser today he expects the car will be British racing green

Ew! Will make it very difficult to keep liking Vettel

AMKC

GarIT wrote: »

Ew! Will make it very difficult to keep liking Vettel

Why just because of a colour?

I have seen renderings of it online and it looks good. Would be great if there was Pink and Green cars on the track as it adds a nice bit of colour but unless someone else like say William's does a deal with BWT only one of them colours will be on track.

Infoanon

skipper_G wrote: »

Stroll mentioned in the presser today he expects the car will be British racing green

Iirc Jaguar were due to run in British racing green but had to change to a different shade of green as they found the British racing green added weight to the car !

As an aside the notion of Aston Martin racing point becoming regular race winners next year is pie in the sky imho

PopePalpatine

Could you imagine British Racing Green with BWT pink? There hasn't been such a bad colour clash since the BAR 001.

GarIT

AMKC wrote: »

Why just because of a colour?

I have seen renderings of it online and it looks good. Would be great if there was Pink and Green cars on the track as it adds a nice bit of colour but unless someone else like say William's does a deal with BWT only one of them colours will be on track.

It has British in the name. It's the one colour I hate. It's not even the colour but their attitude about it.

This is it

Just googled aston martin livery, some results I like some I don't. Obviously no idea what it'll actually be.

I like this



Not so much this



Or this



Anyway, as I said. We don't really know. Some of the above are fan renders I'd say.

Infoanon

Infoanon wrote: »

Iirc Jaguar were due to run in British racing green but had to change to a different shade of green as they found the British racing green added weight to the car !

Cars have to be so heavy now they could probably use lead paint low down.

El_Duderino 09

GarIT wrote: »

It has British in the name. It's the one colour I hate. It's not even the colour but their attitude about it.

Almost all the teams are British in reality. The green but is strange. It's just some heritage that British racing has to be proud of. And the green Jordan was great.

The Google images show Aston with some really distinctive liveries. Lots of green and yellow, charcoal and wings. They look pretty cool even if they're only unofficial drawings.

AMKC

Infoanon wrote: »

Iirc Jaguar were due to run in British racing green but had to change to a different shade of green as they found the British racing green added weight to the car !

As an aside the notion of Aston Martin racing point becoming regular race winners next year is pie in the sky imho

No one said that but maybe they will win a few races.

GarIT wrote: »

It has British in the name. It's the one colour I hate. It's not even the colour but their attitude about it.

Yes the British do like to brag about things like that alright as if they invented it or something.