Rural Fibre Broadband, Really?

Cyrus

_Brian wrote: »

Yea.
We have neighbors like that, but having your neighbors nearly 2km away lowers the inconvenience considerably.

true, but 2km from anything is too isolating for many people as well,

i can understand your attraction and link to your homeplace, i couldnt live that remotely though (and i grew up in a small village well outside dublin)

Ubbquittious

Remote living is fecking mighty. Wouldn't change from it for the world

Problem with broadband though is the more bandwidth you give people the more they waste and this drives up demand. You can achieve loads with piddly speeds of .1 of a mbit if you know how. The bloat in most modern websites is fairly shocking as well. Most of the bandwidth you give people goes unused, and out of what does get used most of it is wasted

Graces7

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Remote living is fecking mighty. Wouldn't change from it for the world

Problem with broadband though is the more bandwidth you give people the more they waste and this drives up demand. You can achieve loads with piddly speeds of .1 of a mbit if you know how. The bloat in most modern websites is fairly shocking as well. Most of the bandwidth you give people goes unused, and out of what does get used most of it is wasted

Even better with the ocean an added factor.. the remoter the better..!

Interesting post. We have excellent service from a small local server; westnet. No idea re the tech aspects? But excellent service. The dish is very exposed to gales but never a flicker in the worst winds; I was with digiweb elsewhere and as well as being very limited it used to die every storm.

How do other folk fare without the fibre service? I would not change now.

Gary kk

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Remote living is fecking mighty. Wouldn't change from it for the world

Problem with broadband though is the more bandwidth you give people the more they waste and this drives up demand. You can achieve loads with piddly speeds of .1 of a mbit if you know how. The bloat in most modern websites is fairly shocking as well. Most of the bandwidth you give people goes unused, and out of what does get used most of it is wasted

Your joking aren't you.

Graces7

_Brian wrote: »

The theory of high density living is fine.
The reality is very different, I can’t think of one example in Ireland that has been done properly. Think, tallaght, Finglas, Muirhevnamor , all places where people were stuffed in on top of each other and society broke down as a result.

I live in the sticks yes but I belong here on our farm, my family history goes back generations, within two hindered meters of my house are the ruins of my great, great grandmothers birthplace. We provide our own water, our own sewage, grow some of our own fuel on our site in a coppice.

Sounds wonderful. I lived self sufficiency on a small North Sea island ten years with no close neighbours. Now even more remote and loving it. Have a good internet server that makes all the difference.

Lived in a low rise council estate in Sheffield way back and hated it.

RoboRat

Born and raised in a large Dublin commuter town and living in the sticks now - I wouldn't go back to urban living, ever.

I have an amazing top spec house that cost less than a basic 3 bed in Ballyfermot. I dont have to contend with asshole neighbours like in my previous home. My kids can play outside safe from cars and the air quality is far better. I wake up with a view of the mountains, have a river at the end of the garden and a large wood about 5 mins walk away.

I could have stayed in Dublin and I have been offered fantastic jobs up there but I consciously decided to move down the country, work locally for about half the money and actually live a life and see my family.

Dublin may have the greatest tax contribution but it also has the biggest social outlay and it's greatest receipients of tax payers money. If the numbers were cruched per capita, I'd say the contributions versus outlay of people living rurally would far exceed Dublin and major urban areas.

Also worth noting, more people working from home and not having to commute means less traffic, less accidents, less emmissions etc. This can only be achieved through the national broadband plan.

Shelflife

if you were to look at the situation slightly differently and instead of broadband we were talking about water.

So the rural population have themselves sorted with their own springs and group water schemes and pay for these services or install run them themselves.

Clearly Dublin population dont have this option but do have the option of taking water from Wicklow , treating it in Kildare and then pumping it back to Dublin also we wont charge the Dublin population for this service we are providing.

So in this instance the rural population source and pay for their own water supply but the Dublin population get it supplied for free ?

I dont think anyone would suggest that if you want to live in a city then you have to do without water or pay an exorbitant price for it .

While broadband isnt in the same category as water its becoming more and more necessary in the age that we live in and similar to electricity and water it should be accessible by all at a reasonable cost.

Cyrus

Shelflife wrote: »

if you were to look at the situation slightly differently and instead of broadband we were talking about water.

So the rural population have themselves sorted with their own springs and group water schemes and pay for these services or install run them themselves.

Clearly Dublin population dont have this option but do have the option of taking water from Wicklow , treating it in Kildare and then pumping it back to Dublin also we wont charge the Dublin population for this service we are providing.

So in this instance the rural population source and pay for their own water supply but the Dublin population get it supplied for free ?

I dont think anyone would suggest that if you want to live in a city then you have to do without water or pay an exorbitant price for it .

While broadband isnt in the same category as water its becoming more and more necessary in the age that we live in and similar to electricity and water it should be accessible by all at a reasonable cost.

where do you think the money for the 'free' water comes from?

Shelflife

The tax payers from the whole country.

Same as the broadband plan.

Cyrus

Shelflife wrote: »

The tax payers from the whole country.

Same as the broadband plan.

and where does the bulk of the tax come from......

Shelflife

about 45% of it comes from outside Dublin........

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

and where does the bulk of the tax come from......

It's a silly argument because if the rest of the Ireland had received a similar kind of investment and building up, then both people and businesses would have set up there too. Dublin is the bulk income simply because it's been at the top of priorities for decades. Should investment be properly made in the rest of the country, then that they could contribute far more.

Morris Moss

Cyrus wrote: »

where do you think the money for the 'free' water comes from?

What was your bill for water this year? Mine was over 2 and a half grand, so maybe if everybody paid for water like they should I wouldn't be subsidising the likes of the water protesters, anything people in the country have they pay for it.

On the rural broadband scheme I think it's madness, cover towns and villages upto a certain distance but after that if you want it pay for it.

Cyrus

Morris Moss wrote: »

What was your bill for water this year? Mine was over 2 and a half grand, so maybe if everybody paid for water like they should I wouldn't be subsidising the likes of the water protesters, anything people in the country have they pay for it.

On the rural broadband scheme I think it's madness, cover towns and villages upto a certain distance but after that if you want it pay for it.

whats your local property tax for this year?

its swings and roundabouts, but if you live remotely of course you should pay for your own water, it only makes sense to include it as a public service when people are in built up areas.

cj maxx

Cyrus wrote: »

where do you think the money for the 'free' water comes from?

Not from Irish Water income. Ye saw to that !

Gary kk

Cyrus wrote: »

whats your local property tax for this year?

its swings and roundabouts, but if you live remotely of course you should pay for your own water, it only makes sense to include it as a public service when people are in built up areas.

I thought that was kinda leveled so everyone pays a similar amount. So a house worth 250k in Dublin would pay the same amount as house worth 150k in say waterford.

Rodin

OneEightSeven wrote: »

5G is useless in rural areas and fibre will never be obsolete, it's the pinnacle of internet connectivity, but Starlink will be available next year and unlike conventional satellite, these are low-earth orbit so latency is much lower. It's around 30ms, which is comparable to Virgin Media. It a disgrace that the taxpayer should have to subsidise the broadband of those who built cheap bungalows in the backarse of nowhere, when high speed broadband is commercially viable in urban areas. This country doesn't have a broadband problem, we have a one off housing problem

We're about to waste €3bn on something that technology will solve in the near future and it will be commercially viable. The only reason why the government are doing is for votes, they don't have the testicular fortitude to explain to bungalow dwellers that us urban dwellers pay more money for our homes to get services like high speed broadband. Instead they make bogus comparisons to the electrification of Ireland to play up the importance of this project.

Another thing, it's mostly Dublin who is paying for this. County Dublin makes up 28.3% of our population, but generates 57% of our tax revenue and only 2.3% of homes in the intervention area are located in County Dublin. Basically, what the government are doing is taking urban dwellers tax money and using it to buy votes from people who built cheap bungalows and have much larger gardens than urban dwellers.

Or they're trying to have more people working from home in rural Ireland so people can work from home enabling better work-life balance; more time spent with kids, less car pollution and making the M50 less of a carpark.

RoboRat

Cyrus wrote: »

and where does the bulk of the tax come from......

And where is the bulk of the tax take spent?

Dublin generates the most tax money but also spends the most, which is fair enough.

if you live remotely of course you should pay for your own water

Most do, they have wells or group water schemes. They still contribute to the water costs for Dublin via taxation.

On the rural broadband scheme I think it's madness, cover towns and villages upto a certain distance but after that if you want it pay for it

Likewise for water, if you want it, get it yourself through rain water harvesting and treat it. Why should I pay my taxes towards free water when I pay for mine?

RoboRat

Rodin wrote: »

Or they're trying to have more people working from home in rural Ireland so people can work from home enabling better work-life balance; more time spent with kids, less car pollution and making the M50 less of a carpark.

• Less congestion
• Fewer accidents
• Less emissions
• Better local economy
• Happier Families
• Better and safer communities

I put all of this in a submission to the Taoiseach back in 2011. Maybe they actually read it

Cyrus

Gary kk wrote: »

I thought that was kinda leveled so everyone pays a similar amount. So a house worth 250k in Dublin would pay the same amount as house worth 150k in say waterford.

its not

some local councils have a 15% discount but its places like Dun laoghaire rathdown where houses are more likely to be 600k+

Cyrus

RoboRat wrote: »

And where is the bulk of the tax take spent?

Dublin generates the most tax money but also spends the most, which is fair enough.



Most do, they have wells or group water schemes. They still contribute to the water costs for Dublin via taxation.



Likewise for water, if you want it, get it yourself through rain water harvesting and treat it. Why should I pay my taxes towards free water when I pay for mine?

Few quotes from the below

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/david-mcwilliams-dublin-generates-56-of-irish-tax-but-can-t-keep-a-cent-of-it-1.3682876


Dublin is by far the biggest source of revenue for the State. In total, €22 billion in tax was raised in Dublin in 2017. This represents 56 per cent of the State’s total tax take, despite having only an estimated 38 per cent of the country’s population.

While Dublin generates €22 billion in revenue, only €16 billion of this is spent in Dublin.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

RoboRat wrote: »

Born and raised in a large Dublin commuter town and living in the sticks now - I wouldn't go back to urban living, ever.

I have an amazing top spec house that cost less than a basic 3 bed in Ballyfermot. I dont have to contend with asshole neighbours like in my previous home. My kids can play outside safe from cars and the air quality is far better. I wake up with a view of the mountains, have a river at the end of the garden and a large wood about 5 mins walk away.

I could have stayed in Dublin and I have been offered fantastic jobs up there but I consciously decided to move down the country, work locally for about half the money and actually live a life and see my family.

Dublin may have the greatest tax contribution but it also has the biggest social outlay and it's greatest receipients of tax payers money. If the numbers were cruched per capita, I'd say the contributions versus outlay of people living rurally would far exceed Dublin and major urban areas.

Also worth noting, more people working from home and not having to commute means less traffic, less accidents, less emmissions etc. This can only be achieved through the national broadband plan.

I’m pretty the numbers have been crunched on this and that Dublin punches above its weight in how much it contributes.

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

its swings and roundabouts, but if you live remotely of course you should pay for your own water, it only makes sense to include it as a public service when people are in built up areas.

Rural people pay for water through taxation and don't receive the service and then pay for their own water. The water charges were heavily supported by people in rural areas as it was a much fairer system. But a large cohort of knuckle dragging townie and city scum refused to pay, they should have sent on the riot squad on them rather than pandering to them.

Cyrus

Cassidy Stale Chimp wrote: »

Rural people pay for water through taxation and don't receive the service and then pay for their own water. The water charges were heavily supported by people in rural areas as it was a much fairer system. But a large cohort of knuckle dragging townie and city scum refused to pay, they should have sent on the riot squad on them rather than pandering to them.

for once i agree i had no issue with water charges as a concept, but also my property tax shouldnt be subsidising the rest of the country. Especially as i live in a private estate and already pay a management charge as the council havent taken it in charge.

i wouldnt say the anti water protestors was confined to scum in cities, there was plenty of other scumbags agitating against it.

SafeSurfer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's a silly argument because if the rest of the Ireland had received a similar kind of investment and building up, then both people and businesses would have set up there too. Dublin is the bulk income simply because it's been at the top of priorities for decades. Should investment be properly made in the rest of the country, then that they could contribute far more.

Absolutely. How many jobs in Dublin are due to state institutions, government departments being located there.

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Absolutely. How many jobs in Dublin are due to state institutions, government departments being located there.

I was thinking more of the major companies and businesses who set up shop in Dublin simply because it has the best infrastructure in the country. Dublin Airport is a serious draw for any business deciding where to settle in Ireland, along with the investment put into technology.

billyhead

RoboRat wrote: »

• Less congestion
• Fewer accidents
• Less emissions
• Better local economy
• Happier Families
• Better and safer communities

I put all of this in a submission to the Taoiseach back in 2011. Maybe they actually read it

Cars are a major Revenue earner for the Gov so they would prefer people commute to work by car i.e tax on petrol. The broadband plan is a vote getter.

jmayo

Cyrus wrote: »

whats your local property tax for this year?

its swings and roundabouts, but if you live remotely of course you should pay for your own water, it only makes sense to include it as a public service when people are in built up areas.

Yes a public service, but one you should pay for much like your electricity, gas or cable.

Cyrus wrote: »

for once i agree i had no issue with water charges as a concept, but also my property tax shouldnt be subsidising the rest of the country. Especially as i live in a private estate and already pay a management charge as the council havent taken it in charge.

i wouldnt say the anti water protestors was confined to scum in cities, there was plenty of other scumbags agitating against it.

Your property tax should be for local services such as roads, footpaths, lighting, local libraries, local community centres, parks, playgrounds, etc.

But much like the road tax/motor tax/"whatever the feck you want to call it" and all the other motor related taxes are not ring fenced for roads and motorists, neither is your property tax really ring fenced for local services.
Same with any future environmental taxes which they tell you will be used to help fight climate change.
They all get dumped in the central pot and firstly public sector salaries, welfare, health spending, education have to be taken care of.
Then it's a grab for what is left.

As regards Broadband I think some local providers have been doing a pretty good job filling the gaps left by the big carriers and our state.
If anything offer them subventions and tax incentives.

Now the state is getting involved I expect little better, but a lot of money wasted and conveniently ending up in certain people's pockets.

I think the last proper major infrastructure project in the state was our digital phone upgrade in the early to mid 1980s.
We ended up with one of the best most modern systems in the world.
There even was foresight and side deals done to get Alcatel and Ericsson to set up companies and manufacturing sites in ireland some of which still exist.
Before that it would have been electrification.

Since then we have made a hames of major road projects, see M50 as prime example.
We made a total balls of Luas with huge time and cost overruns.
Don't get me started on Irish Water debacle or the National Childrens hospital.

We are fooking hopeless at big projects.