General Election December, 2019 (U.K.)

A Dub in Glasgo

How many times does Gove say 'I'm fine with that' in this interview? Well done Ciaran Jenkins from Channel 4

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1197497186461868034

Joe_ Public

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

How many times does Gove say 'I'm fine with that' in this interview? Well done Ciaran Jenkins from Channel 4

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1197497186461868034

That was great and could it be a total coincidence that the tories tell C4 today that johnson wont be turning up for their scheduled leaders debate this weekend? Though could be he is just running scared of another defeat by corbyn.

sid waddell

sid waddell wrote: »

Because the cry of "Soros" has become so associated with really virulent anti-Semitism - it's a favourite dog whistle of the extreme right - and I mean actual Nazis here - it really is a terrible idea for anybody to do what Rees-Mogg did there.

He can claim plausible deniability, which is a favourite tactic of racist dog whistlers (see Lee Atwater), but the Soros dog whistle is so widely known, and the usual implications of using it so widely known, that it's an absolutely dreadful idea, and really does leave you wide open as to your real motivations for using it.

I guess it's possible to use Soros's name in debate in a negative sense without leaving yourself open to charges of anti-Semitic dog whistling, but you would have to make absolutely clear that you understand that it is widely used as an anti-Semitic dog whistle and make crystal clear that you are not doing so in such a manner.

I find it hard enough to think of such situations where it could be appropriate.

Personally I think Rees-Mogg is clued in enough to know the implications of what he said there and who it was appealing to. He was cute enough to know he could always hide behind plausible deniability and would be protected.

Just as regards Soros and anti-Semitism, I think what Fiona Hill has to say in the video here in her testimony at the Trump Impeachment hearings is very interesting.

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1197621725879422977

liamtech

Not sure if this has been highlighted already but

Boris Johnson has pulled out of a channel 4 one to one debate with Corbyn

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-debate-boris-johnson-party-leaders-tv-cancel-corbyn-a9212926.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/channel-4-cancels-general-election-20931983

Rather cowardly wouldnt we think?

Clearly Boris is losing some confidence

Professor Moriarty

liamtech wrote: »

Not sure if this has been highlighted already but

Boris Johnson has pulled out of a channel 4 one to one debate with Corbyn

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-debate-boris-johnson-party-leaders-tv-cancel-corbyn-a9212926.html

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/channel-4-cancels-general-election-20931983

Rather cowardly wouldnt we think?

Clearly Boris is losing some confidence

Logical move. He's 12% ahead in the polls. Little to gain in debating and much to lose.

Joe_ Public

Another day, another appallingly dishonest tory stunt. Question is they obviously understand there will be a backlash coming from it so what is the strategy - do they think it will attract more voters then repel or is it more a distraction thing on the day of labour manifesto launch, the same way the factcheck thing might have been designed to shift the focus off the actual debate? Either way, I'm sure we'll see an awful lot more of this before the campaign is out.

https://twitter.com/jessbrammar/status/1197537262583586818?s=20

Stop moaning ffs

Sorry if it’s already been answered but I just read this. How exactly are the conservatives getting away with this?

https://twitter.com/two_penneth/status/1197617516715094017?s=21

VinLieger

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Sorry if it’s already been answered but I just read this. How exactly are the conservatives getting away with this?

https://twitter.com/two_penneth/status/1197617516715094017?s=21

Cus the electoral commission seem to be absolutely toothless when it comes to things in the digital realm

Joe_ Public

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Sorry if it’s already been answered but I just read this. How exactly are the conservatives getting away with this?

https://twitter.com/two_penneth/status/1197617516715094017?s=21

Do they even expect to get away with it? I wonder if this is all just part of a strategy to try and deflect as much as possible from the issues the tory party would prefer not to talk about. Dead cat kind of thing, i suppose. Chance it could backfire but they obviously think its worth the risk.

Stop moaning ffs

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Do they even expect to get away with it? I wonder if this is all just part of a strategy to try and deflect as much as possible from the issues the tory party would prefer not to talk about. Dead cat kind of thing, i suppose. Chance it could backfire but they obviously think its worth the risk.

That’s just it. They can’t really think they’ll get away with it and nobody will notice.
Or are they just hoping it’ll stick and fool a few people? It’s so bizarre
Cummings hands all over this one

Zubeneschamali

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Cummings hands all over this one

Yes, and as we saw with prorogation, he is not nearly as clever as he thinks he is.

robinph

VinLieger wrote: »

Cus the electoral commission seem to be absolutely toothless when it comes to things in the digital realm

I think they are just toothless when it comes to doing anything to the main parties. They have completely banned one candidate from actually being able to campaign in the constituency they are standing in due to them abusing Anna Soubury. The candidate was really just a joke candidate that would lose their deposit anyway and they can't be removed from the ballot other than by dying, but for them to be banned from actually campaigning is pretty severe punishment for a candidate.

Edit: Turns out it was actually Westminster Magistrates that banned the candidate from campaigning, not the Electoral Commission. But at least there are some bodies with teeth and prepared to use them.

Bannasidhe

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Another day, another appallingly dishonest tory stunt. Question is they obviously understand there will be a backlash coming from it so what is the strategy - do they think it will attract more voters then repel or is it more a distraction thing on the day of labour manifesto launch, the same way the factcheck thing might have been designed to shift the focus off the actual debate? Either way, I'm sure we'll see an awful lot more of this before the campaign is out.

https://twitter.com/jessbrammar/status/1197537262583586818?s=20

At this point their campaign slogan should be "The End Justifies The Means".

And there appears to be absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop such manipulations or even downright lies https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/insights/who-regulates-political-advertising/

Personally, regardless of who is acting this way, I think it's appalling and some form of enforceable standards should be brought in (not just in the UK, here too).

Joe_ Public

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

That’s just it. They can’t really think they’ll get away with it and nobody will notice.
Or are they just hoping it’ll stick and fool a few people? It’s so bizarre
Cummings hands all over this one

Its definitely a coordinated strategy and they obviously believe it will pay a dividend in some way so who knows?

I see it as part of an overall strategy of arguably the most negative campaign ever ran. A tory politician asked when we might see their manifesto this morning couldnt answer. "Soon," he kept repeating. Also, as heard on newsnight last night, "we asked the conservatives to put up a candidate but there was no one available" is becoming a bit of a refrain. Just attack labour and hammering out get brexit done is all there is to it and they believe it will be enough.

Leroy42

But it would appear that the public are more than happy to accept it. It seems, based on polls and the recent TV debate, that the public don't have any faith in Johnson yet are more than happy to give him the guys to the kingdom. Despite, of course, him already having them and failing to carry out what he promised he would do.

The recently published financial reports about the financing of the different parties is quite sobering. Tories are many multiples ahead in terms of money being given to them. This is not even a close fight.

Professor Moriarty

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Its definitely a coordinated strategy and they obviously believe it will pay a dividend in some way so who knows?

I see it as part of an overall strategy of arguably the most negative campaign ever ran. A tory politician asked when we might see their manifesto this morning couldnt answer. "Soon," he kept repeating. Also, as heard on newsnight last night, "we asked the conservatives to put up a candidate but there was no one available" is becoming a bit of a refrain. Just attack labour and hammering out get brexit done is all there is to it and they believe it will be enough.

Cummings playing a blinder to date. Plus Corbyn is easy pickings.

Leroy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Cummings playing a blinder to date. Plus Corbyn is easy pickings.

Yes I agree, they are completely leading the narrative.

Of course it helps when a large amount of the media are, be it unwittingly or on purpose, on their side.

Joe_ Public

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Cummings playing a blinder to date. Plus Corbyn is easy pickings.

Maybe cummings but there are also a couple of new kids on the block. A right pair of charmers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/23/tories-hire-facebook-propaganda-pair-to-run-online-election-campaign

Danzy

Leroy42 wrote: »

But it would appear that the public are more than happy to accept it. It seems, based on polls and the recent TV debate, that the public don't have any faith in Johnson yet are more than happy to give him the guys to the kingdom. Despite, of course, him already having them and failing to carry out what he promised he would do.

The recently published financial reports about the financing of the different parties is quite sobering. Tories are many multiples ahead in terms of money being given to them. This is not even a close fight.

People are voting for the option that they feel will do them less harm.

Connolly pointed it out over a century ago, "The Socialists will not understand why I am here; they forget I am an Irishman."

Enough will see Labour as not respecting their choice, their community, Labour's libertarian leaning approach to migration as a direct attack and disregard for their identity, culture, nevermind the economic hammer it is especially to the Working Class.

People are more than economic units.

It isn't amazing that the Tories will win but that Labour can't see why so many working class people are terrified at the thought of them getting in.

People will say false consciousness etc but that is a fatal cop out, the lefts way of explaining away problems.

All 9f that has been compounded by a culture of contempt and often snobbery towards its own old voter base.

They did the same in Scotland in the ref. there, same result.

When they lose enough of Labour will double down and they'll let the proles have both barrels.

There is a snobby ars4hole problem on the Left and it's electoral gold for the Conservatives.

They won't change, can't self reflect.

Danzy

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Another day, another appallingly dishonest tory stunt. Question is they obviously understand there will be a backlash coming from it so what is the strategy - do they think it will attract more voters then repel or is it more a distraction thing on the day of labour manifesto launch, the same way the factcheck thing might have been designed to shift the focus off the actual debate? Either way, I'm sure we'll see an awful lot more of this before the campaign is out.

https://twitter.com/jessbrammar/status/1197537262583586818?s=20

Rubbish like that will cost them multiples of what they'll gain.

Professor Moriarty

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Maybe cummings but there are also a couple of new kids on the block. A right pair of charmers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/23/tories-hire-facebook-propaganda-pair-to-run-online-election-campaign

Labour should do the same. If they go low, we go lower.

farmchoice

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Labour should do the same. If they go low, we go lower.

i dont think they have the media clout to get away with it.


its only really since the whole bexit think that i have become aware just how dysfunctional the British media landscape is, it really is outrageous that in a western democracy their is such a bias towards one party.
i head some expert in ''the media'' speaking on it and it was her opinion that the only country n Europe where there is more of a leaning towards one party is Russia.
i dont have the link and i cant even remember where i saw it which is a pity because she backed up her position very well.

Joe_ Public

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Labour should do the same. If they go low, we go lower.

The stay high mantra didnt really work for clinton in 2016 did it, for all she won the popular vote? I could envisage the national outrage if labour did join them in the digital trenches though, people kind of expect this kind of behaviour from the tories but i think everybody else is judged by higher standards.

Zubeneschamali

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, and as we saw with prorogation, he is not nearly as clever as he thinks he is.

Some polls put Johnson on 45 points.

I think Cummings is doing just fine.

A Dub in Glasgo

Oh dear, I did not watch QT last night as I have lost patience with it but this is extraordinary stuff from a member of the public. In fact, Bruce should have told the man to STFU and get his facts right. BBC release it on their twitter feed without any comment on the accuracy of the member of their audience

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1197651546940608514

CelticRambler

Joe_ Public wrote: »

A tory politician asked when we might see their manifesto this morning couldnt answer. "Soon," he kept repeating.

Was that the same guy who kept going on about the new higher NI threshold? The £12,500 that'll put £500 in the pockets of the lowest earners? When pressed, he indicated the same timescale "eventually" - it's an "ambition". Similarly, he referred to the more immediate benefit of the (less increased) threshold that they're planning to introduce as "about £100" ... when it's calculated independently as £85. Rounding up by 17.5% to make things sound better isn't exactly honest or trustworthy ... I wonder if we should apply the same margin of error to the value of every Brexit dividend?

c.p.w.g.w

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Oh dear, I did not watch QT last night as I have lost patience with it but this is extraordinary stuff from a member of the public. In fact, Bruce should have told the man to STFU and get his facts right. BBC release it on their twitter feed without any comment on the accuracy of the member of their audience

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1197651546940608514

80,000£ a year is inside the top 5% tho is it not....

A Dub in Glasgo

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

80,000£ a year is inside the top 5% tho is it not....

It certainly is. This deluded guy thinks he is more like 50% so he is either lying on his salary or he has no self awareness and made an idiot of himself on national TV

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1197770323623587840

Joe_ Public

CelticRambler wrote: »

Was that the same guy who kept going on about the new higher NI threshold? The £12,500 that'll put £500 in the pockets of the lowest earners? When pressed, he indicated the same timescale "eventually" - it's an "ambition". Similarly, he referred to the more immediate benefit of the (less increased) threshold that they're planning to introduce as "about £100" ... when it's calculated independently as £85. Rounding up by 17.5% to make things sound better isn't exactly honest or trustworthy ... I wonder if we should apply the same margin of error to the value of every Brexit dividend?

It could have been, i only heard part of the car crash interview. It was Rishi Sunak on bbc breakfast. "You're chief secretary to the treasury and you cant tell us when the manifesto is coming out??"

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1197781526240518144?s=20

This is the guy the tories have picked to stand in for johnson on the bbc debate next week. Truly, the mind boggles.

robinph

He doesn't understand percentages.

The whole audience, apart from his wife, seemed to gasp when he said he wasn't even in the top 50%. The bloke on the panel and Fiona Bruce just seemed to let that slide for some reason.