Judgement day for Maria Bailey.

Tabnabs

I'd like to see the HSE decoupled from the Department of Health and left to its own devices. A new minster is always the panacea for our health service problems. It's never the people within the HSE and it's never a problem that throwing more money at it has ever fixed.

Let the Minster of Health get on with sharing out the billions of euro in funding and let the HSE get on with giving the public a proper health care system and stop hiding behind some temporary public figure every time there is a health crisis.

Snow Garden

lawred2 wrote: »

It's incredible that Michael Martin is still a figure in Irish politics... his legacy (the HSE) should have been more than enough to bury any politician forever

Mary Harney set it up but it was a disaster from the start.

The establishment of the unified health service in the form of the HSE was flawed from the outset. It was insufficiently planned, lacked effective leadership and suffered immediately from a huge loss of organisational knowledge when many of the former health board chief executives left. It became an increasingly centralised, unaccountable body.

Under its structures, doctors, nurses, and service managers who previously had autonomy over local decisions have to get clearance from a plethora of managers in Dublin for day-to-day decisions about minor service developments.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/harney-sets-out-to-save-the-hse-from-itself-1.944464

It's still a bloated mess with huge waste.

lawred2

Snow Garden wrote: »

Mary Harney set it up but it was a disaster from the start.



https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/harney-sets-out-to-save-the-hse-from-itself-1.944464

It's still a bloated mess with huge waste.

MM established the HSE in 2004

padd b1975

lawred2 wrote: »

was there a golden generation where the health service was concerned?

Probably not since Noel Browne.

Snow Garden

lawred2 wrote: »

MM established the HSE in 2004

Yes but the HSE came into being on Jan 1 2005. Harney was health minister from Sept 2004 and she alone made the 1 fatal decison which doomed HSE to the failure it is today. All agreed that redundancies and early retirements in backend management/staff was needed for the rationalisation and health board amalgamation to work. There was a plan for redundancies too but Mary changed her mind in the final months out of fear of losing votes and triggering industrial action. Even some of the union leaders agreed it was necessary. It meant a bloated bureaucracy was created. To avoid industrial action, the sensitive question of necessary redundancies was ducked, and senior personnel found themselves in jobs without meaningful roles.

lawred2

Snow Garden wrote: »

Yes but the HSE came into being on Jan 1 2005. Harney was health minister from Sept 2004 and she alone made the 1 fatal decison which doomed HSE to the failure it is today. All agreed that redundancies and early retirements in backend management/staff was needed for the rationalisation and health board amalgamation to work. There was a plan for redundancies too but Mary changed her mind in the final months out of fear of losing votes and triggering industrial action. Even some of the union leaders agreed it was necessary. It meant a bloated bureaucracy was created. To avoid industrial action, the sensitive question of necessary redundancies was ducked, and senior personnel found themselves in jobs without meaningful roles.

And you think MM didn't see that coming?

Snow Garden

lawred2 wrote: »

And you think MM didn't see that coming?

Trust me, I think MM is a complete gombeen politician too but to my knowledge the redundancy plan was sunk by Harney at the last minute. It torpedoed the whole HSE project.

is_that_so

Snow Garden wrote: »

Trust me, I think MM is a complete gombeen politician too but to my knowledge the redundancy plan was sunk by Harney at the last minute. It torpedoed the whole HSE project.

Harney ultimately went a lot further with the consolidation of hospitals. The industrial action was a real threat. They have had at least 3 such redundancy packages since. A lifer HSE suggested to me that each version of it was not given enough time to bed down. The main HSE problems are twofold, still a few too many admin and hospitals being poorly managed, especially in the area of finance. We don't see the former but the latter appears almost every week,

James Brown

I often wondered did she set it up to fail in a move towards privatisation. I know FF/FG are chomping at the bit to privatise that's why they let it fester IMO. Sure uncie Dinny has his stethoscope in his pocket.

Muahahaha

suicide_circus wrote: »

In fairness, i cannot remember a time when healthcare was not in crisis.

Its gotten much worse under Fine Gael. There are now more than 1 million people waiting on an outpatient appointment.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/0921/1077331-consultants/

The Irish Hospital Consultants Association has said that one million people are on a waiting list to be seen at an acute hospital.

Speaking at the organisation's annual conference today, its president, Dr Donal O’Hanlon, said almost 570,000 people were waiting to be seen by a consultant.

Dr O’Hanlon said that the impact on patients waiting are that their condition may advance further, they may be suffering and in discomfort and their long-term outcome could be more positive.

He said that the exceptional waiting lists were unfair on patients, all of whom have paid for the service through their taxes.

Thats almost 1 in 5 of the population waiting to see a doctor. Its a clusterfcuk and was never this bad when FG took power.

lawred2

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its gotten much worse under Fine Gael. There are now more than 1 million people waiting on an outpatient appointment.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/0921/1077331-consultants/


Thats almost 1 in 5 of the population waiting to see a doctor. Its a clusterfcuk and was never this bad when FG took power.

FG took power?

That lasted a few years - during a rather delicate time for the public finances

The current government is a minority one - hamstrung by a populist FF and a coterie of loolah independents

The Brexit distraction hasn't helped either...

But what do you genuinely think the current administration could or should do with the HSE?

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

FG took power?

That lasted a few years - during a rather delicate time for the public finances

The current government is a minority one - hamstrung by a populist FF and a coterie of loolah independents

The Brexit distraction hasn't helped either...

But what do you genuinely think the current administration could or should do with the HSE?

Children's hospital costing how much?
I wonder if that could have built another hospital or two or several hundred nurses for how long?

lawred2

Deleted User wrote: »

Children's hospital costing how much?
I wonder if that could have built another hospital or two or several hundred nurses for how long?

aye the children's hospital that 30 years' worth of Irish governments have repeatedly swerved

wonder why?

wouldn't be because they saw the obvious monstrosity in negative public opinion coming their way once they put a shovel in the ground!?

Ireland doesn't thank anyone for capital investment... sure look at the countless public infrastructure projects either shelved or castrated by weak politicians at the first whiff of "concerned in Rathgar" raising their concerns...

But yeah it's a FG and their minority government that done it

is_that_so

lawred2 wrote: »

aye the children's hospital that 30 year's worth of Irish governments have repeatedly swerved

wonder why?

wouldn't be because they saw the obvious monstrosity in negative public opinion coming their way once they put a shovel in the ground!?

Ireland doesn't thank anyone for capital investment... sure look at the countless public infrastructure projects either shelved or castrated by weak politicians at the first whiff of "concerned in Rathgar" raising their concerns...

But yeah it's a FG and their minority government that done it

It will pass like any outrage about any project that goes over budget, because of what we get. People get more annoyed for longer over the likes of the current insurance awards or tribunal payments for lawyers.

James Brown

lawred2 wrote: »

FG took power?

That lasted a few years - during a rather delicate time for the public finances

The current government is a minority one - hamstrung by a populist FF and a coterie of loolah independents

The Brexit distraction hasn't helped either...

But what do you genuinely think the current administration could or should do with the HSE?

They had free reign during the period of 'a few years' when we were 'practically eating out of bins' to make any changes they liked. They went the quango/sweet deal route. During that 'rather delicate time for the public finances' they found money for Reilly's clinics anywhere he liked and the IW quango. Hence the current set up.
The only reason they are in power at all is because FF messed up so bad the last time. FG should have been head and shoulders above any opposition had they not been found not fit for purpose.
Brexit is a welcome distraction for them.

McMurphy

lawred2 wrote: »

FG took power?

That lasted a few years - during a rather delicate time for the public finances

The current government is a minority one - hamstrung by a populist FF and a coterie of loolah independents

The Brexit distraction hasn't helped either...

But what do you genuinely think the current administration could or should do with the HSE?

Almost 9 years in power at this stage, the "it was like this when they got here" excuse has gone stale a few years ago at this point.

Yeah, fair enough we were in financial turmoil when fg got in - perfect time to gut the hse, and overhaul other sections of the public/civil service, and reform the legal system, all of which it promised to do when it was electioneering in early 2011.

Hands tied/blame FF has been the default excuse for near 9 years now.

pm1977x

Any Maria Bailey news in this Maria Bailey thread at all today?

James Brown

pm1977x wrote: »

Any Maria Bailey news in this Maria Bailey thread at all today?

The FG grand wizards executive are deciding her faith today. I believe it involves dripping wax from a candle into a washtub of water.

Snow Garden

It looks like she is in trouble.

TAOISEACH LEO VARADKAR has strongly hinted that Maria Bailey will be taken off the ticket for the next general election, stating that the “democratic will of the constituency should be respected.

Fine Gael is expected to take TD Maria Bailey off its Dún Laoghaire general election ticket at a meeting of the party’s national executive council later today.

https://www.thejournal.ie/maria-bailey-general-election-ticket-4890470-Nov2019/

Itssoeasy

Democratic will of the constituency ? Sure the FG membership didn't vote for him when they had a leadership contest in 2015/6(can't remember) and reading in the papers the set up and weighted voting between FG TDs and ordinary members seems like a recipe for disaster(party unity wise anyway). Now whether Simon coveney would have been a better Taoiseach is an open question.

I know for a fact that Maria bailey has pissed off FG members in Cork as I've been in their company and non FG people bring it up and it's a mix between saying nothing or saying "for Christ sake." She made an awful mistake and if Leo varadkar as leader of the party had a killer instinct this decision tonight would never have come up.

I'm curious what is the leadership set up in the other political parties like FF,SF, Labour ?

McMurphy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Democratic will of the constituency ? Sure the FG membership didn't vote for him when they had a leadership contest in 2015/6(can't remember) and reading in the papers the set up and weighted voting between FG TDs and ordinary members seems like a recipe for disaster(party unity wise anyway). Now whether Simon coveney would have been a better Taoiseach is an open question.

I know for a fact that Maria bailey has pissed off FG members in Cork as I've been in their company and non FG people bring it up and it's a mix between saying nothing or saying "for Christ sake." She made an awful mistake and if Leo varadkar as leader of the party had a killer instinct this decision tonight would never have come up.

I'm curious what is the leadership set up in the other political parties like FF,SF, Labour ?

Leo doesn't do irony. Check out the below.



The people of Fingal are probably stroking their heads right about now when they see Leo's wingman.

When your constituency rejects you, there's always the sunshine club of the Seanad.

Odyssey 2005

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Leo doesn't do irony. Check out the below.



The people of Fingal are probably stroking their heads right about now when they see Leo's wingman.

When your constituency rejects you, there's always the sunshine club of the Seanad.

Two doctors. If they were any good they'd be practising.

James Brown

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Two doctors. If they were any good they'd be practising.

I suppose becoming a doctor is a nice fall back career. Must be nice.

I'd say any genuine person wanting to pursue politics within FG is delighted the Bailey political lineage is looking like ending. Not a fan of folk inheriting party support.

banie01

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Two doctors. If they were any good they'd be practising.

I suppose if their current competencies are any indication of their skills...
It's a good thing for the mortality rate that at least 1 of them isn't.

mountai

Just looking at the "Doctors" is giving me a pain in my hole . The legacy they handed on to the Clown thats in there now was nothing to be proud of . At least they qualified in medicine , what qualifies the present Clown to be in his position ?? . Anyone???.

Snow Garden

6 news are covering it now.

Result is around 8pm.

Again sounds like she is toast.

James Brown

They'll have to make a big, albeit begrudging, song and dance. Leo playing the firm and quick to act leader, in his own mind, while leaving the door open for her Seanad seat in a few years.

***********

A lot of familiar posters been missing lately. Not even the spin bots are being told to have her back.

Odyssey 2005

Snow Garden wrote: »

6 news are covering it now.

Result is around 8pm.

Again sounds like she is toast.

:)

https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/261430/baileys-a-la-french-toast/

EmmetSpiceland

So, any of the regular “malcontents” going to emerge out of the cellar and go along to the meeting tonight? Perhaps you could vent some of that, long, pent up rage in a more “constructive” manner.

Won’t be there myself but you’d imagine that lot will be quite to spot, bug eye’d and sweaty, wrapped in an anorak, or trench coat, thick glasses and “sporting” a wallet chain. Oh, and speaking, loudly, in a robotic monotone voice.

Might be nice for them to get out for some fresh air, the “auld pair” would certainly enjoy a night off.

James Brown

Spoke too soon

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

So, any of the regular “malcontents” going to emerge out of the cellar and go along to the meeting tonight? Perhaps you could vent some of that, long, pent up rage in a more “constructive” manner.

Won’t be there myself but you’d imagine that lot will be quite to spot, bug eye’d and sweaty, wrapped in an anorak, or trench coat, thick glasses and “sporting” a wallet chain. Oh, and speaking, loudly, in a robotic monotone voice.

Might be nice for them to get out for some fresh air, the “auld pair” would certainly enjoy a night off.

So is this you trying to contribute is it :rolleyes:

For me the irreparable damage is done. Now it's just a fun FG soap opera