GN Toilets

Princess Calla

Ah look, I know.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the loudest activists didn't actually like the trans community and are trying to stir a negative reaction from the rest of us.

It's just getting tiring that nearly every day there's another drama.

Then being told I can't get offended.

Beasty

antix80 wrote: »

In the interest of transparency.. Red card infraction from beasty. I'm not disputing or discussing the infraction.

"Comparing transgender people to others of the type you mention is not acceptable"

antix80 - do not post in this thread again

Sir Oxman

Dante7 wrote: »

As long as we can agree that females should have separate spaces, I'm good.

But just for the the record, the Intersex people I know don't take kindly to being dragged into this debate and being used as pawns. (It was Intersex awareness day today, btw). This debate does not involve them.

^This

Gynoid

http://dailybruin.com/2019/05/28/students-voice-concerns-about-bathroom-policy-security-camera-monitoring/

Students in UCLA claim that raising the height or the lowering of the stall walls in gender neutral toilets is transphobic.

But in Toronto University they had to revert to providing single sex facilities in dormitories, with additional gender neutral for those who wish, due to voyeurism.

Tis hard to please some people.

Sir Oxman

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Apart from the ones that are ofcourse. You've just chosen to ignore them and label and insinuate that people are transphobic.

This is what they do - the identity cultists.
No wonder transsexuals run a mile from them.
And why people with genuine gender dysphoria should too.

Sir Oxman

manbitesdog wrote: »

So your argument is that there are perfectly valid, absolutely not transphobic reasons to be offended by the term cisgender, but you won’t say what they are, but they were posted in some other thread somewhere by unnamed posters and I should just look them up?

It’s a useful term in discussions about transgenderism, because otherwise we’d be distinguishing between women and transwomen all the time, which is not inclusive language.

You've just nailed it.
It's your wish for it to be used so it reaffirms 'twaw'.
Which they are not.

Sir Oxman

manbitesdog wrote: »

I think the existence of transpeople challenges a lot of deeply engrained notions about gender and sexuality, and that is why they encounter such hostility from some quarters, and mainstream society has only begun to grapple with those challenges.

People apparently had no need for the terms homo- and heterosexual until the 19th century. To be sure, there always have been some people exclusively attracted to others of the same sex, but people did not see fit to categorize sexual preferences before then. Homosexual acts were something a person did, but homosexual was not considered something you could be. They just didn’t think that way about sexuality.

So homosexuality, a historically contingent sexual identity has been understood to involve same sex attraction. Transgenderism is apparently difficult to reconcile with this homo- hetero-binary in some people’s views. If a man who has only exhibited heterosexual attraction starts dating a transwoman, is he somehow not still heterosexual? To me, heterosexual still seems appropriate.

I am pretty dismissive of questions of the form “are lesbians transphobic if they aren’t attracted to transwomen with penises.” People are attracted to whomever they are attracted to, and nobody should be with anyone they don’t want to be with.

BIB
There we have it.
'Has been understood'
Reality has to be denied for this dangerous rubbish to succeed.

Sir Oxman

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Heh, I knew it was going to be that video. It's excellent.


Embedded.

Didn't Butterworth, the asshat transactivist in that video nominate and take for himself a BAME reserved seat at a NUS conference in the UK in 2012?
He was asked not to by BAME students but went ahead as 'his stepmum was black' after 'self-defining' as Jewish didn't work



The NUS UK (National union of Students...) of course, are just as much at fault as the above narcissist activist is - they stupidly had the reserved BAME seat labelled as 'anyone who self-defines as...'


https://twitter.com/ArielArtez/status/1184189661637419012?s=20

uck51js9zml2yt

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Heh, I knew it was going to be that video. It's excellent.


Embedded.

Incredible!

I now identify as a male sparrow...with 2 heads.:)

Edit:

Found this nonsense. A gender list. I thought this stuff just couldn't be made up...but it can.

https://genderfluidsupport.tumblr.com/gender

Gynoid

I think sometimes people imagine that concerns about extremist trans propaganda are unwarranted and that such ideological extremism exists only on the fringes of certain, mainly US-based, societies such as universities or gender identity focused political groupings. Or that it is a social media phenomenon whipped up into a silly frenzy but not relevant to real life. Or that people will ultimately be more sane and grounded over this side of the Atlantic because we are not mad like them.

I don't find that to be true. Thgere is a slow creep of irrationality going on more locally too. The links here are UK based, so one could say it's not Ireland. But really we are too small a demographic to provide good evidence of sociological movements. And people may say we do not follow the US trends (which is incorrect in my opinion) but UK trends do seep in here.

From the past couple of weeks alone...

Police Forces in the Uk record offences as the gender with which the perpetrator identifies. This is going to have a grevious knock on effect on criminological studies, which are an important part of how societies respond to crime.

Six forces, including South Yorkshire and Thames Valley, disclosed under freedom of information laws that if someone is arrested for or convicted of rape, the official record will state the gender they chose to identify themselves as.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-forces-let-rapists-record-their-gender-as-female-d7qtb7953


Marks and Spencers in the UK has publicly said the dressing rooms are available to people to use as they identify. Before peoplke say they have cubicles - many don't, and the flimsy curtains are not really a private space.

“As a business, we strive to be inclusive and therefore, we allow customers the choice of which fitting room they feel comfortable to use, in respect of how they identify themselves,”

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/marks-spencer-changing-rooms-gender-women-men-a9180391.html

The spokesperson for Doula UK - a charitable organisation for pregnancy support - has been forced to step down because she said on a facebook post responding to a Cancer Research UK leaflet that described women as people with a cervix, that she is a woman, not a cervix owner, or a menstruator etc. And she outrageously added that only women can give birth. So, she lost her role.

20 trans activists wrote a letter of complaint claiming Mrs McCarthy-Calvert had ‘clearly’ breeched Doula UK policies stating that members ‘shouldn’t post anything that our colleagues, clients and affiliates would find offensive’.
They alleged that the post contained several ‘trans exclusionary comments’ including the description of a woman as an ‘adult human female’.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7643251/Charity-hounds-birth-coach-post-saying-women-children.html

In related madness, the 2021 Scottish census will include 21 sex orientation choices -

The new choices include: androphilic, androsexual, asexual, bicurious, bisexual, demiromantic, demisexual, fluid, gay, gynephilic, gynesexual, homosexual, heterosexual, lesbian, pansexual, polysexual, queer, questioning, skoliosexual, straight, unsure.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/21-sex-orientation-choices-in-next-census-6jcllngsk


And in spite of the new ''wokeness'' of global advertisers, Unilever and Kraft Heinz still pay for adverts on Pornhub. Which is where a mother whose 15 year old daughter had disappeared a year earlier found videos of her girl. (link)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/unilever-and-heinz-pay-for-ads-on-pornhub-the-worlds-biggest-porn-site-knjzlmwzv

drunkmonkey

I thought the UK police would have more cop on, identify as a female rapists, get sent to female prison. It's like double win if your a rapist.

Silentcorner

This sh#t show all comes from the same source that brought us this wave of radical feminism and identity politics, it is ordinary women who lose here, privacy, sport, scholarships etc etc.

What Social Media has done it has inflamed it across national boundaries, (Metoo being a good example), mainstream media, which is desparate to remain relevant in people's lives only make matters worse.

The Humanities and Social Science Departments of US Universities have a lot to answer for, and I am not just referring to their part in the massive College Debt Bubble in the US (that has left 10,000s of US women in debt for their useless degrees), this sh#t is all over Corporate America...this will not end well!!

SoupMonster

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I thought the UK police would have more cop on, identify as a female rapists, get sent to female prison. It's like double win if your a rapist.

You haven't heard of the male rapist in the women's prison in Limerick?

carolmon

SoupMonster wrote: »

You haven't heard of the male rapist in the women's prison in Limerick?

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

Women's safety obviously less important than the rights of a fully intact Male rapist who self identifies as a woman.

mrcheez

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In my experience anyway, nobody gives a shìte

I wish I had the same experience, I always end up in one where someone has given a sh1te

Invisibleman

If it’s a single toilet like the disabled ones I have no issue, but I wouldn’t want trans people using a communal one with kids, sorry if that offends but it’s my opinion

SoupMonster

carolmon wrote: »

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

Women's safety obviously less important than the rights of a fully intact Male rapist who self identifies as a woman.

Lots of people in prison identify as innocent. It's irrelevant how anyone identifies.

carolmon

SoupMonster wrote: »

Lots of people in prison identify as innocent. It's irrelevant how anyone identifies.

It's not irrelevant to the women who were sexually assaulted by a self identifying woman in a women's prison

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison

is_that_so

Invisibleman wrote: »

If it’s a single toilet like the disabled ones I have no issue, but I wouldn’t want trans people using a communal one with kids, sorry if that offends but it’s my opinion

This is where common sense needs to apply. Not everyone is comfortable with the communal concept anyway. Not a huge fan of the communal unisex myself as I often feel I'm in the wrong bathroom.

LoughNeagh2017

Women wouldn't go into a toilet that an ugly man is in as ugly men like me are potential rapists and paedophiles in womens eyes, all because of our bone structure on our face You know they say that is why Ted Bundy was so successful in his crimes, because women trusted him as they didn't think he was dangerous due to his handsome face. It is called the halo effect.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

The toilets-issue at this stage is a bit of a distraction.

The question is: should women have safe spaces where men can't go; and how do you stop men pretending to be transwomen to get into them?

Because sticking your head in the sand and pretending transwomen don't exist; or that they are all a pack of liars, is at best, confirmation bias; and at worst, downright ignorant.

TCM

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Cause all trans people are sex offenders of course

Is that true?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

TCM wrote: »

Is that true?

Time to bring back the facepalm smiley.

ceadaoin.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I thought the UK police would have more cop on, identify as a female rapists, get sent to female prison. It's like double win if your a rapist.

60 out of 125 trans identified(male to female) prisoners in the UK are sex offenders. Either trans people have sky high rates of sex offending (unlikely) or predatory men are taking advantage (likely) . Proponents of self Id won't talk about this though and shout down anyone who does as transphobic , because to admit there are problems is going against the whole ideology and would see them ostracised as terfs or similar. Putting male rapists in womens prisons is but a minor issue to them

One eyed Jack

ceadaoin. wrote: »

60 out of 125 trans identified(male to female) prisoners in the UK are sex offenders. Either trans people have sky high rates of sex offending (unlikely) or predatory men are taking advantage (likely) . Proponents of self Id won't talk about this though and shout down anyone who does as transphobic , because to admit there are problems is going against the whole ideology and would see them ostracised as terfs or similar. Putting male rapists in womens prisons is but a minor issue to them

What’s to talk about though? I don’t mind admitting that physical and sexual assaults in prisons are a massive issue, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator or the victim. Essentially it has nothing to do with self-identification and everything to do with the lack of proper supervision and procedures in prisons. Physical and sexual abuse is rife in both male and female prisons, and that’s the issue that needs to be tackled as far as I’m concerned, not whatever gender anyone identifies themselves as.

There are issues of course with self-identification, particularly when it comes to healthcare, employment and education, but prison accommodation and unisex bathroom facilities are grasping at straws to argue that people who are transgender should be denied their human rights as though the outcome where there is a conflict of human rights isn’t already determined by the Courts rather than addressed in legislation, like the outcome of the recent JY case.

p1akuw47h5r3it

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What’s to talk about though? I don’t mind admitting that physical and sexual assaults in prisons are a massive issue, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator or the victim. Essentially it has nothing to do with self-identification and everything to do with the lack of proper supervision and procedures in prisons. Physical and sexual abuse is rife in both male and female prisons, and that’s the issue that needs to be tackled as far as I’m concerned, not whatever gender anyone identifies themselves as.

There are issues of course with self-identification, particularly when it comes to healthcare, employment and education, but prison accommodation and unisex bathroom facilities are grasping at straws to argue that people who are transgender should be denied their human rights as though the outcome where there is a conflict of human rights isn’t already determined by the Courts rather than addressed in legislation, like the outcome of the recent JY case.

Why increase the risk that female prisoners are subject to? That is what there is to talk about. And it is absolutely not clutching at straws. It is a genuine concern.
One with a penis, who has been convicted of a crime (particularly one of a sexual nature), should not be put into an enclosed space with females who themselves are quite vulnerable when there is room to not do this.

One eyed Jack

DanDan6592 wrote: »

Why increase the risk that female prisoners are subject to? That is what there is to talk about. And it is absolutely not clutching at straws. It is a genuine concern.
One with a penis, who has been convicted of a crime (particularly one of a sexual nature), should not be put into an enclosed space with females who themselves are quite vulnerable when there is room to not do this.

I get that the focus of your argument is solely on women’s safety, but where I’m coming from is the idea of introducing measures that make prisons safer for everyone, regardless of their gender. That way the idea is to protect people, regardless of their gender, from becoming victims of physical and sexual abuse by sexual predators, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator.

That way, everyones safety is increased as opposed to just measures which focus on prioritising anyone by virtue of their gender. Women in prison and men in prison are subjected to physical and sexual assaults and abuse daily, primarily caused by other inmates of the same sex as themselves, and there are a minority of prison officers who physically and sexually abuse prisoners. It’s not the gender of the perpetrator or the victim that’s the issue, it’s the fact that putting sexual predators and prisoners who are known to be violent among the prison population is like putting a fox in a chicken coop. What do they think is likely to happen? That’s why the procedures around supervision and monitoring prisoners and keeping prisoners safe from those people who would physically and sexually abuse and assault them is a far better strategy than just separating prisoners by sex.

It’s not the fact that they place prisoners who are transgender among either the female or male prison population that increases the risk to other prisoners, it’s the fact that there are people who are sexual predators who take advantage of the way the system is set up, to physically and sexually abuse other people.

drunkmonkey

Educate Together school installing mixed gender toilets with a see through window from the corridor because or the growing debate around transgender.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-limerick-secondary-school-to-install-gender-neutral-toilets-961522.html

_Kaiser_

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Educate Together school installing mixed gender toilets with a see through window from the corridor because or the growing debate around transgender.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/new-limerick-secondary-school-to-install-gender-neutral-toilets-961522.html

I really would love to know what's driving this whole issue. I really am against the increased sexualisation of young children to further this identity agenda.

It's creating unnecessary discomfort and potential risks for very little return from what I can see, other than the adults and advocate groups involved getting warm feelings.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I really would love to know what's driving this whole issue. I really am against the increased sexualisation of young children to further this identity agenda.

It's creating unnecessary discomfort and potential risks for very little return from what I can see, other than the adults and advocate groups involved getting warm feelings.

Exactly how is this leading to "increased sexualisation of young children"?