Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

Bass Reeves

Even NZ is bringing more calf welfare rules

https://thatsfarming.com/farming-news/calf-feeding-nz/

Siamsa Sessions

Interesting point from Bill O’Keeffe in the Journal this week re the carbon cost of worthless calves. He suggested the carbon cost of the cow could be diluted if the calf was a decent beef animal and carried thru to slaughter (by dairy or beef farmer).

If the calf is slaughtered at birth, the cow must carry all the carbon or GHG costs.

Maybe carbon counting at farm level will be the initiative that stops lads producing worthless calves?

whelan2

What does he do with his bull calves?

carrollsno1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160339#Comment_119160339

Hed have some of the best calves around here and he'll charge you plenty for the luxury of rearing his calves. Any British Friesan bull calves with the right figures are kept for bulls while the sub standard ones are sold to local farmers ex farm i wouldnt imagine he needs to go to the mart at all with them and he does use beef bulls in AI and sweepers too.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160339#Comment_119160339

British friesan herd, not much waste there I'd say to be fair to him. Cows doing in around the 500kg Ms I'd say from bits I've read..no bother selling calves and I wouldn't say any are leaving the yard sub 100 euro..better bulls reared for stock bulls, with no shortage of customers. And a good cull cow to sell.

Teagasc could pay attention it's up on a 500 cow herd now I'd say, with plenty of walking and still no need for jerseys.

whelan2

See there is a market for good calves, no problem getting rid of calves here either. It's just the other lads who ruin it for everyone else

Pinsnbushings

Same here 150 for fr bulls, 250 for beef bulls and heifers..2-3 weeks old.

Repeat buyer

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160681#Comment_119160681

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160681#Comment_119160681

I know a man that’s buying calfs off him a few years now, as good as a British fresian as you’ll get and he never gets any trouble with them

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160770#Comment_119160770

It's good for everybody long term, not everybody can or will milk cows, as we see in the mart at the moment there's a huge demand for beef..sucklers probably a bit inefficient, I think plenty of beef lads would rear calves if they could get ones that were well looked after for first couple of weeks and turned into decent cattle that left a twist. Problem being the reputational damage done with some of the bullshit short term thinking over the past number of years.

The fella that bought my calves over the past 2 years is getting out of sucklers this year and just going to rear calves and lamb few ewes.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160812#Comment_119160812

i see back my way most dairy farmers keep there calfs but the few that sell them don’t even have to advertise they have repeat customers one man even travels down from mayo to Tipperary every year, but these herds would be good British fresians and the calfs would be well looked after, bought a few limousines and simentals myself and all graded Rs in the factory

A friend of mine who is a dairy farmer who milks proper British fresians was at a dairy meeting one night, the discussion was about cross breds and the financial benefits, but when he priced the price of the calf and cull cow into the equation he was better off, the speaker was then struggling

Siamsa Sessions

Posted this pic in another thread but it seems relevant here too. These are a few belonged to an uncle of mine. He buys the calves at 3-4 weeks, sometimes ex-farm but other times at the mart, and brings most thru to slaughter

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160873#Comment_119160873

Fine cattle nothing narrow about those lads..what are they 26 months or so..has he them getting meal over that entire time or would they be on grass only for second year?

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162532#Comment_119162532

Not sure of their age but they’d have been grass-only this time last year. Getting 4kg now til finish

Pinsnbushings

They will leave him a nice turn so, this years nuts being the only inputs he'd be buying at the new inflated prices.

Of course the cost of rearing this years calves to the same age has gone through the roof

Bass Reeves

Came across this it was at a dairy open day and there was a speaker who highlighted the issues facing dairy farmers. He indicated that Calf slaughtering at a young age will be seen as unacceptable and at present if ferries fail to sail calf prices drop. In 12ish months calf travel limitations will start to effect how far they can travel

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/beef-farmers-could-be-paid-to-take-dairy-calves-in-future/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351715#Comment_119351715

Daft. In an era where they are talking about reducing methane they want to pay fellas to take these scrub calves.

Surely sexed semen for replacement and use easy finishing mop bulls and subsidise the dairy farmer to do this is the way to go.

Get rid of these hard to finish cattle and reduce emissions by having stock finishing 6 months earlier.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351734#Comment_119351734

These scrub calves as you put them have a lower carbon footprint than a suckler calf.

Sexed semen has being tried for 15+ years and is still farm from perfected.

My friesians finish faster than most of the HE and AA I buy. They are just not efficient converters of ration.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351748#Comment_119351748

They are scrub cattle if they are born in Jan / Feb and aren’t finished until the end of the summer after eating a quarter ton of meal.

I have found that aa / he cattle off dairy cows can definitely finish off grass. Suckler cattle should definitely finish off grass.

In my experience freisian bullocks are a total dead loss as they hoover up silage and meal and don’t come in to decent weights and finish late. And jex, forget about it.

The biggest improvement a beef farmer can make is improve silage quality and grass usage.

Anto_Meath

There is a massive variation in FR cattle, there are two local lads I buy off. One lad has Holstein / British Fr breeding wouldn't let a cross bred or Je in the gate. Uses sex semen on the cows and an AA bull. He would only have a few FR bull calves every year and I do buy them off him as he doesn't keep them for bull beef like his AA's. His cattle a fine tall good quality cattle, I do have no issue getting them killed off grass at sub 30 months at circa 400 kgs/DW and would never grade less then an O=.The other lad I buy a few off would have a mix of everything, but his cattle are small framed / boned, they would get the same do as the first lads cattle but would be killing 330 - 340 kgs/DW they don't be fit any sooner either, with some grading P's and I have even had some of his AA's grade P's.. On purely a grass based system which I try to be, all animals would have a similar fixed cost so the more weight i can get lads to put on the better.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351778#Comment_119351778

A lot depends on the way cattle are done. Fruesian cattle can average 8-900 grams per day over there life with little ration fed. A lot of HE and AA will average 500/ day.

However more than any other calf a Friesian gets the poorest treatment. Beef is in demand all year around. Most cal es are born whether suckler or dairy from mid January to late March and then tail off. According to you and Teagasc they should all be hung from November/December to March.

If a lot of Friesians were mollycoddled like other breeds they would kill 400 kg DW at 26-28 months. I saw friesians in the mart 3weeks ago 490 kgs at 16-17 months.

The friesians I buy are under done often 300-330 kgs in May/ June. Those e will put on 8-900 grams per day on grass and silage with about 160-200 kgs of ration fed and hang sub 30 months in the main.

The problem lies with JE breeding which when added to low quality AA and HE bulls is making it harder to turn a margin. However with genetic analysis it will be possible sort the wheat from the chaff and force the dairy farmer producing the poor quality animal to pay for to get that animal to a slaughter weight.

Nothing wrong with that

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119354852#Comment_119354852

I don’t see the benefit in bullocks that take nearly 30 months to finish

Its a good point that a lot of it comes down to quality as poor freisians are a good bit worse than good freisians.

Based on the icbf a lot of fellas must like hauling buckets. The meal bin isnt always the answer. I can’t understand how fellas can’t finish Angus or Hereford stock out of dairy cows off grass. It’s very doable with good grass ahead of them always.

200 kilos of meal. Some dragging in that.

A 400 kilo dw freisian at 26 months, did he have a unicorn coming out of his forehead?

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119354885#Comment_119354885

There will have to be more meal hauling if they want it under 22 months.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119354768#Comment_119354768

Definitely better than hauling buckets. A lot to be said for a bit of breeding.

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119351734#Comment_119351734

Subsidise dairy farmers, and they getting 60 cent per litre for milk. A sub for beef farmers might be worth loking at.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355191#Comment_119355191

Subs for beef farmers (and I have 120 + beef stock on hand) should be the last thing looked at. All it has ever created is a culture of dependence and lined the pockets of everyone around the farmer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355191#Comment_119355191

Well they would need a reason to improve the quality of their bulls from a beef perspective.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355275#Comment_119355275

The best reason would be if they were left with the poor ones....there should be a cost to going after the easy calving short gestation calves.................

mr.stonewall

Maybe the DBI index needs to have more weighting towards carcass weight and confirmation. Some on the AA are up at the high end of the list due to 2 factors; Calving Interval and calving ease

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119355931#Comment_119355931

It’s the low rating of Carcass weight and confirmation compared to calving ease that is destroying good beef bulls

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119356579#Comment_119356579

The DBI index would be served better if calving ease was separated from it. It would sort the wheat from the chaff and change the outlook of the direction or beef breeding sires used in the diary herd. Saw a clip from Larry's advantage scheme and he is even highlighting the difference in carcase weight.

Now things are bad when Larrys crew are even looking for improvement.

Since the removal of quotas Dairy farmers eye has slipped from beef breeding stock. Many had a beef enterprise as well and this keep the eye in the game. That's gone now in many herds with the EBI race mainly around the maintenance figure and the JEX influence. This is seen in the collapse of the value of the beef sub index of the EBI since 2015. Further proof that the genetic potential of calves is dropping off a cliff