Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

farmertipp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371032#Comment_119371032

I would agree that growing dairy herd every year is a stick that is being used against us. particularly unnecessary expansion of already huge herds for egotistical reasons and using Jersey breeding which is causing trouble with unwanted low quality calves . there is something seriously wrong with farmers who think continued travel in that direction is ok.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371032#Comment_119371032

I'd say it's f**King angel dust that pricks on about, in fairness given its properties of adding weight gain and muscle to dairy bred stock maybe the EU could revisit allowing its use in Europe again to cut down on methane emissions

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119370553#Comment_119370553

The same advisors will look you straight in the face about how using top ranked dbi bulls will negate this, have big cows here by Irish standards and would regularly be in my calf buyers yard looking at the weanlings/bullocks throughout the years and it's comical how easy you'll pick out my stock be it freisan our a beef breed as their usually a foot over their comrade calves from other herds

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371125#Comment_119371125

When calves start to back up in yards in the springtime. this will quickly change the tune. The cost to rear them and the return to bring them to weaning at 8-10 weeks will be substantial on a number or fronts, namely, labour, housing, vet and milk.

If the shipping element is removed a lot of claves will have a negative value even at 8 weeks old. If a farmer is interested in having a market for getting calves of the farm, breeding decisions on the cow side around the maintenance figure needs to be taken with immediate effect. Expecting to fire a beef straw into a cow and having a saleable, calf will not cut the mustard in the future. Remember the cow is adding half the genetic potential to the calf.

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119370553#Comment_119370553

Absolutely bang on with that …..seen it with my own herd …..but good luck with getting ICBF/Tegasc to accept it

White Clover

Would a contract rearing arrangement be the best solution?

With the beef farmer having no say on the genetic make up of the calf, why should he/she carry the risk of a high percentage of calves growing in to poor quality beef animals?

If the dairy farmer had some skin in the game, it may incentivise them to move away from these small high ebi New Zealand type cows and breed a cow that suits the farming systems of this country.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371332#Comment_119371332

A lot of this simple goes back to the direction of the maintenance figure on EBI. It has shot up in the dairy herd over the past 8 years. Coupled with the beef sub index it has plummeted. These coupled together with, very easy calving bulls, with low carcass weight and up to a -7 days on calving interval, has dropped the calf quality. In a market which will be flooded, the cream will rise to the top. Poorer bred calves will back up on these farms. Calf rearers will have the pick. I personally refuse to buy an April calf due to the fact that quite a number have been induced leading to a smaller calf starting out. I have that T-shirt.

I don't expect a dairy farmer to be welded to a calving jack, and dealing with with downer cows in the spring with tough calvings. No beef farmer expects that, but subtle changes in the direction of the dairy herd of cows would greatly help all. Teagasc and ICBF need to step up to the plate on this Correcting issues with breeding takes up to 3 generations and there is no silver bullet to fix it. It will be slow, but taking the first step is the hardest.

alps

Went to Grennan Irish Friesian Open day yesterday, and have to say that a cow delivering 560kg solids on 1 tonne of meal, fertile and sellable calf every time seems as good a solutuon as what all the scientists have delivered.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371482#Comment_119371482

They're not a fear of a climbdown on their part, hell would have to freeze over before they would admit their wrong....

They'll push the sexed semen route and everything else to beef going forward as long as they can get away with it, the gas thing is these beef calves are next to useless for the beef man haven't the frame our growth rates to ever get beyond a 300kgs carcase Killout and grade wise you'll be lucky to scrape a o and 50% of them.....

Seen factory receipts here for 2020 fr calves bought of us at 3 weeks old for 30 euro that came into 1520 euro in early May this year of circa 500kgs of meal ad-lib for 60 days pre finishing, the comrade he/aax crosses that cost him 130-200 euro where ranging from 1150-1350 euro, like your alluding too if the frame and size isn't in these cattle to get them into respectable kill-out weights and grades they're a busted flush

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371473#Comment_119371473

No on 2 fronts

Firstly farmers like to have independence on how they farm and having control stock can be vital for some farmers. Beef farmers focus is on putting weight on a carcass as quick, efficient and cost effective.

Secondly, it is only further going to make the problem of small frame cows bigger. I read somewhere on agriland that average carcase weight do p garde cull cows is approx 220kg. This put the live weight in the bracket of approx 465kg. This is pulling back the potential of the the calf to reach a reasonable weight. If the cull cow weight was to reach 240-250kg, this could easily put 20-30kg carcase weight onto the calf when it's finally hung up. This extra weight in today's money is worth approx €100-150. This is achieved with the same inputs and over a shorter lifetime.

Contact rearing is only going to mask the problem that is out there. A cow with extra LW of 40kg is the key to improving the problem

mahoney_j

Having a big minus mantinance figure was and is standard breeding advice from Tegasc over last few years ….small little cows produce small poor beef calves unless off a br Fr ….but then those cows just don’t milk from September

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371483#Comment_119371483

I was looking forward to going for weeks but never got there yesterday then!

Combination of kids off school and catching up with other jobs around the yard put an end to my day out looking at BF cows.

Any other big take-away messages? Were stock dear during the sale?

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371573#Comment_119371573

If a dairy farmer has to bare the true cost of getting an animal reared, and when hung is disappointed with the weight and price, it will force them to breed better quality cows and calves or else keep losing money if they continue with the same breeding strategy as before. The risk stays with the breeder. The beef man should not be carrying all the risk here.

minerleague

Not a dairy farmer but can't fully understand why having better beef animals from dairy herds matter so much, won't it just increase supply of beef ( ie increased carcase weights ) leading to reduced beef prices for all cattle going to factory. If I was dairy farming I'd look after the cows first ( easy calving, short gestation etc )

mahoney_j

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371685#Comment_119371685

That there in is the problem …..all about the cow and dairy farmer and fook the beef man

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371125#Comment_119371125

The only thing that will change lads like that's mind is if they have to give 150-200 euro with every calf leaving the farm

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371685#Comment_119371685

Yeah true. If all calves were top quality we'd still be b*lloxed if can't export them as there would be just more beef for processors.

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371714#Comment_119371714

But thats my point the suckler farmer will take less for their cattle because of extra beef available, no? You mean the drystock farmer buying dairy bred cattle? That system works of a margin ( beef prices rise mart prices rise )

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371571#Comment_119371571

These bulls left a twist and were reared on lower cost inputs. This spring was a welcome change on the beef front as the factories were at 6s and 7s to get beef. At that kinda money them bulls hung up around 280-300kg.

Further proof that in beef weight pays.

mr.stonewall

Suckler cows numbers are contracting. If the export trade disappears it will mean that Sucklers could drop by a quarter and still have the same number of stock being killed.

Pippa and window box boy have thrown a real spanner in the works with the extra money for organics. If this is taken up the Suckler numbers will drop, but will these farmers be won't be able to really buy calves or I don't know can they take in non organic stock.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371714#Comment_119371714

I'm afraid the beef man is f*cked at this stage anyway no matter how you look at it. Our industry was sold out years ago. Look at the difference in how we are being treated this year of record high inputs. Milk up to 55c base and also helping those on fixed price schemes, beef good for a couple of months while factories sorted out the market, now its back in the control of the factories and price is set to continue downwards - no consideration of input costs - 'f*ck em' shur where else are they gonna send their cattle'.

The EU are total crooks too. We have to play by their f*cked up rules while they import cheap Brazilian beef to suppress the market.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119371840#Comment_119371840

If he is fooked at 4.85 a kilo how was he at the start of the pandemic at 3.20 or whatever it was then.

At 4.85 a 330 kilo freisian bullock would do 1600. How couldn’t you make money there? Even if he was with you for 29 months and ate 200 kg of meal

Anto_Meath

I do a lot of driving around the country and what i notice is in North of Ireland the majority of the dairy cows you see out in the fields appear to be a British friesian or Holstein friesian not the small Jex that you notice in the fields around me and as far as I can see the farmers in Northern Ireland seem to be doing ok.

I also notice that many of the the NI dairy farmers are the lads coming down to Carnaross giving the big money for these types of cows at the dairy sales.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119372242#Comment_119372242

Alright Larry. I was making a comparison on how dairy lads are treated by processors and how we are. Beef is f*cked and has been for a long time. Don't mind quoting 3.20 (it was actually 3.40 and got a 100/head beef finisher payment that time), people were losing money then and they aren't making a whole pile now at 4.80 and dropping. Lots of farmers gonna have to take the 4.50 (or whatever it drops to) going into the winter. The last of mine going next week at 4.80, I did ok this year, but they were wintered on last years input costs. What do I replace them with? I've only bought half what I normally have for next year as the sums don't add up without some assurance being shown by the factories, and that is not happening. I think they lost control of the market for a while this year and it won't happen again. We have no alternative outlet. And if exports drop off it'll be a lot worse. Hoover away up those 400kg bullocks at €1000+ in the mart and make your big money next year - I won't be bidding against you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119372460#Comment_119372460

Would you not go calf to beef?

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119372662#Comment_119372662

Tried it for a couple of years on a small scale. Calf rearing is expensive and time consuming. Feeding milk, dehorning, weaning, training to shock, feeding meal, keeping fresh grass in front of them, dosing, castrating, feeding a kg of nuts over 1st winter. Figured if I could buy a 12-14 month old bullock in April for 2.00-2.50/kg I was only spending an extra 100/head without all the hassle above. And when buying yearlings you have the weight and age so you know their thrive ability - much less chance of getting a dud than when buying calves.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119370907#Comment_119370907

You need to tell me what Jihn and Mary and the 2 kids are being asked to cut?

Your point is that we must all shoulder the same load...

What are they being asked or forced to cut?

Where are they to loose income?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373368#Comment_119373368

I told you. The general public need to give up fossil fuel based transport and heating. They also need to retrofit where needed.

That will eat a good amount of their income. A decent electric car is 40 k, a retrofit could cost a 100 k, esb isn’t getting cheaper and all of this comes out of their net pay in an environment with high inflation

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373660#Comment_119373660

There is absolutely no regulation going to be employed on any of this..

A farm carries all this increased fuel, heating and energy costs..

On top of that the farm household carries all of the cost you say the above family carries..

Now lets go back to your original accusation that we all need to share in this equally..???

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119373660#Comment_119373660

A majority of them just won't do that ....nor will they be forced to....at least not in the short term and probably not medium or long term either

Unless you are on the scratcher, then it will probably be paid for by the State.....