Spring 2020..... 1.5m Dairy calves.... discuss.

wrangler

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Larry unaffected by the Strike, it seems. 'Irreparable Damage' to the Irish Beef Industry eh....?

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/abp-buys-its-third-production-facility-in-poland-35135337.html

It looks like he's taking the attitude that if we don't want to supply cheap beef he'll get it somewhere else, it must be him that's bringing the beef into here.

_Brian

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

I doubt there's a chance of famine there, BP. The price of pork especially and other meats will rise but products and types of meat used will change. Poultry and pork will definitely rise and it's well overdue for both sectors. Offal and cheaper beef cuts will be more in demand as well, I'd expect.

I’d say allot of units producing pork in China will quickly switch to chickens and duck which are quick to build numbers and are already readily consumed there.

They will have a government driven move to cover the food gap as quickly as possible so I think any bounce in pig or cattle prices will be short term.

Mooooo

wrangler wrote: »

It looks like he's taking the attitude that if we don't want to supply cheap beef he'll get it somewhere else, it must be him that's bringing the beef into here.

It's labelling laws that should be protested

wrangler

Mooooo wrote: »

It's labelling laws that should be protested

I was at the presidential debate last night, according to one of the audience there's 90 containers of beef came into dublin port this week....... processing that is probably slowing up the kill too.

Siamsa Sessions

wrangler wrote: »

I was at the presidential debate last night, according to one of the audience there's 90 containers of beef came into dublin port this week....... processing that is probably slowing up the kill too.

What’s the official reason?

How does it pay to ship ice to the arctic? Or sand to the desert?

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

What’s the official reason?

How does it pay to ship ice to the arctic? Or sand to the desert?

Why are we importing lambs, market control
Apparently 47000 tons polish beef comes in annually, reason is price, 3 mths ago polish beef processors were paying €270/ kg to farmers

Hard Knocks

wrangler wrote: »

Why are we importing lambs, market control
Apparently 47000 tons polish beef comes in annually, reason is price, 3 mths ago polish beef processors were paying €270/ kg to farmers

Very true
The problem is it’s labelled Irish and nobody in authority gives a damn
Friends of friends....

Siamsa Sessions

wrangler wrote: »

Why are we importing lambs, market control
Apparently 47000 tons polish beef comes in annually, reason is price, 3 mths ago polish beef processors were paying €270/ kg to farmers

Control supply and you control everything. Never was it more important to try find alternative routes to consumers for our produce.

Just read another article in Farming Indo about a Reko Ring set-up in Lahinch. Producers post on a Facebook page what they have for sale and consumers order on the same page. There’s a weekly collection then in a local car park. All done and dusted within 20-30 mins. No trading license needed like a Farmers Market coz all sales are agreed in advance on the Facebook page.

This might not suit the majority of beef and lamb producers but it’s another outlet all the same.

Base price

Any thoughts on this article from NZ about rearing 10,000 FR, AA and HE calves on OAD. Reading the article is appears that the average purchase price is $99/hd but they sell at 12/14 weeks of age/100kg liveweight at $800 to $900 per head.

We use a OAD system at 540grms of a 35% skim powder and the bull calves thrive on it. I wonder would $800/900 per head pay to have them flown to NZ :rolleyes:
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/rearing-10000-calves-with-a-once-a-day-feeding-system-in-new-zealand/

Albert Johnson

Base price wrote: »

Any thoughts on this article from NZ about rearing 10,000 FR, AA and HE calves on OAD. Reading the article is appears that the average purchase price is $99/hd but they sell at 12/14 weeks of age/100kg liveweight at $800 to $900 per head.

We use a OAD system at 540grms of a 35% skim powder and the bull calves thrive on it. I wonder would $800/900 per head pay to have them flown to NZ :rolleyes:
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/rearing-10000-calves-with-a-once-a-day-feeding-system-in-new-zealand/

It's some turnover in a few short weeks, granted this is before costs but still it's some gross margin to work off. They mention contracted customers so perhaps they have access to a market that isn't readily available to competitors although I'm only surmising. Having said that there working at scale and seem very selective as regards calf quality and potential. I'm yet too see a system that makes a silk purse out of a sows ear as it were, the poorer quality calf isn't wanted in this system either.

alps

Base price wrote: »

Any thoughts on this article from NZ about rearing 10,000 FR, AA and HE calves on OAD. Reading the article is appears that the average purchase price is $99/hd but they sell at 12/14 weeks of age/100kg liveweight at $800 to $900 per head.

We use a OAD system at 540grms of a 35% skim powder and the bull calves thrive on it. I wonder would $800/900 per head pay to have them flown to NZ :rolleyes:
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/rearing-10000-calves-with-a-once-a-day-feeding-system-in-new-zealand/

I seriously question the accuracy of some of the agriland articles. Some of the reporting can be very slack. $800/900 for a 100kg dairy calf makes absolutely no sense.

Gawddawggonnit

AFAIK...


In the Eu, the minimum slaughter age is 8mts. This is enforced.

At that age they’d want to be 300+kg live weight or 170+kg carcass.

If you’re lucky a BBx will achieve €4/kg dead weight...more like €3.70/kg atm.

Color of the meat is graded from 1-4.
Conformation graded 1-18.
Fat score 1-4.

Target color 2.5-3.0.
Target conformation 8.5-9.0.
Target fat score 3-3.5.

Like everything else you’d want a fairly large throughput to make a respectable margin, thus BBx are the preferred calf type.

* All prices are +vat.

Bass Reeves

alps wrote: »

I seriously question the accuracy of some of the agriland articles. Some of the reporting can be very slack. $800/900 for a 100kg dairy calf makes absolutely no sense.

800NZ dollies is 460 euro. Australian beef price is 3.38euro/kg +vat or 3.55/kg on an Irish price. This is a commercial calf rearing operation. I have no price for NZ beef but imagine that it is similar. Like all really commercial operations which this calf rearing operation is it will always insist at a decent margin. These are contracted before the calves are born. Costs can often be higher than you think as bought in rations, hay and straw are often very expensive because of haulage.

In general the farmers there have no wintering costs like us and NZ nearly grows grass all year around. Cattle will be extensively grazed on land unsuitable for tillage or dairying. Sheep which is highly labour intensive are the next option. I would imagine that cattle can be finished off grass. No 30 Month limits no weight limit but maybe bonuses in place for certain carcasse weights and grades. Grading may be targeted towards markets. As well no stocking limits or paperwork.

It interesting that Friesian are the preferred choice of calf. In a grass based system a animal capable of good weight gain/day is better than a good converter. The AA and HE may be like it is going in Ireland too easy calving.

460-500 euro may seem on the high side for a reared calf in an Irish system but in an all grass based system a well reared calf going to grass at 100kgs being mob grazed gaining 900grams/day would hit 350DW after 22months grazing. 750 gross margin . You are more than likely looking at a net margin of 500/head. Even if a 24-28 month turn around finishing 5-600 such cattle on a 1000acre plus farm would be quite doabke

The other choice would be 400 suckker cows

manjou

they also have a different grading which pays on meat quality rather than carcass shape. to get a calf to 12 weeks old plus a margin plus cost you wouldn't have much change out of 450. when calf lands he goes straight to grass until slaughter so has no store period and would finish slot quicker than you think when lower carcass weights are taken into account you would make a better margin than 300 kg ch at 900 euro at 7 month's

3 the square

Sold 5 fr bulls in the mart 105 each 4 weeks old
Happy enough!

Bass Reeves

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

AFAIK...


In the Eu, the minimum slaughter age is 8mts. This is enforced.

At that age they’d want to be 300+kg live weight or 170+kg carcass.

If you’re lucky a BBx will achieve €4/kg dead weight...more like €3.70/kg atm.

Color of the meat is graded from 1-4.
Conformation graded 1-18.
Fat score 1-4.

Target color 2.5-3.0.
Target conformation 8.5-9.0.
Target fat score 3-3.5.

Like everything else you’d want a fairly large throughput to make a respectable margin, thus BBx are the preferred calf type.

* All prices are +vat.

I presume this is veal

Gawddawggonnit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I presume this is veal

Yes.
I put that up to show just how hard the veal producers are hit. A year ago the best BBx calves would get up to €6/kg dead.
Nobody even noticed, and these are the people who will be buying all those exported Irish calves...!

Processors are helping producers by paying for the milk powder etc. to try and keep them in business. Interesting times.

Ed. The rule of thumb is that you need to finish around 1k calves to earn the basic minimum wage of €19k net.

Bass Reeves

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Yes.
I put that up to show just how hard the veal producers are hit. A year ago the best BBx calves would get up to €6/kg dead.
Nobody even noticed, and these are the people who will be buying all those exported Irish calves...!

Processors are helping producers by paying for the milk powder etc. to try and keep them in business. Interesting times.

Ed. The rule of thumb is that you need to finish around 1k calves to earn the basic minimum wage of €19k net.

And there is people in this country trying to promote a veal enterprise.expecting that is the answer or rose veal. It the same as U16 month bill beef, high cost,high output with a very low margin. Lots of people between other farmers and the powers that be have not realized how the margin for lots of farmers have been eroded. They expect this to continue and lads will work there ass off to produce stores or beef.

From what you have posted veal producers are under pressure as well. High input systems will be the first that downsize

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

And there is people in this country trying to promote a veal enterprise.expecting that is the answer or rose veal. It the same as U16 month bill beef, high cost,high output with a very low margin. Lots of people between other farmers and the powers that be have not realized how the margin for lots of farmers have been eroded. They expect this to continue and lads will work there ass off to produce stores or beef.

From what you have posted veal producers are under pressure as well. High input systems will be the first that downsize

Majority of farmers are looking for something to eat grass, ie to stock the farm.
If they want an intensive enterprise calves would be a poor choice to convert concentrate to beef

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Majority of farmers are looking for something to eat grass, ie to stock the farm.
If they want an intensive enterprise calves would be a poor choice to convert concentrate to beef

Grass is the easiest and cheapest feed to produce. But the educated experts want us to produce expensive grass from continual reseeding. Recently saw a dairy farmer reseed about 30 acres that were reseeded less than 5 years ago. I cannot fathom the reason.now virtually all my farm is reseeded but I expect that I will get 15-20 years out of swards.

The economics tell us that we have no margin from any beef produced off anything other than grass. Yet the educated elite are all on about pushing cattle for maximum output. There gra for high cost systems is only begining to be focused on.

But in 3-10 days on this thread some lads will ask again about setting up a veal/rose veal industry in Ireland and in some agri forum some dairy farmer will see s veal industry as the answer to the calf issue

Siamsa Sessions

Bass Reeves wrote: »

But in 3-10 days on this thread some lads will ask again about setting up a veal/rose veal industry in Ireland and in some agri forum some dairy farmer will see s veal industry as the answer to the calf issue

Tim Cullinan said at a hustings event last night that Ireland needs to export 500,000 calves next Spring.

Is that "solution" as likely as an Irish veal industry?

Another gem from the three men who want to lead Irish farmers: "All three candidates agreed that the derogation needed to be protected at all costs."

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/meath-ifa-hustings-president-s-position-on-bord-bia-questioned-507841

Bass Reeves

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Tim Cullinan said at a hustings event last night that Ireland needs to export 500,000 calves next Spring.

Is that "solution" as likely as an Irish veal industry?

Another gem from the three men who want to lead Irish farmers: "All three candidates agreed that the derogation needed to be protected at all costs."

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/meath-ifa-hustings-president-s-position-on-bord-bia-questioned-507841

He expects that we can more than double calf exports off what is our highest base every. .....I something wonder where we (sorry the IFA) find these Muppets.

These guys should have there lips sewed together because everything they are spouting is one big delusion after another.

Gawddawggonnit

1000 calves produced every year by one person, working a 35hr week, should be able to pay for the investment (buildings etc), and walk with €19k. Is it that bad?

The French equivalent of ICOS are paying for the milk powder, to help veal producers...will they continue to pay when its Irish calves that are being reared??

Teagasc and the IFA etc are pushing high input systems because they’ve no other solutions. Facts are, that farm size in Ireland is small, and often on poor quality land. The derogation is imperative to keep the family dairy farm on its feet.
When the derogation goes, and it will, it’ll push dairy farmers over the edge...ask the Dutch. The Dutch fcuked with the regs, their own environment and their Gov and the EU...they can march all they want, it won’t change a thing!!

I was giving an outline to French farmers a while back about Irish ‘low cost’ dairy production. Nobody agreed that using 1-1.5t/ha of N is low cost. Add in the price of land and conacre...?
Teagasc/IFA (etc) would better serve farmers by getting them ready for when the derogation goes and strict regulations are imposed on N usage...then again they didn’t see the calf crisis coming (?).

Then again 3thesquare got over 100 quid for calves, so all is good...:)

Injuryprone

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

1-1.5t/ha of N

???? Where you getting that from?

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

He expects that we can more than double calf exports off what is our highest base every. .....I something wonder where we (sorry the IFA) find these Muppets.

These guys should have there lips sewed together because everything they are spouting is one big delusion after another.

Farmers like you elect them ........
You're just deliberately trolling now....... in one sweep you have belittled 70000 members
What has happened to your posting since the stupid protests, pathetic

Base price

wrangler wrote: »

Farmers like you elect them ........
You're just deliberately trolling now....... in one sweep you have belittled 70000 members
What has happened to your posting since the stupid protests, pathetic

Wrangler, in fairness anyone going forward for election to the highest post in our main farming organisation should know better than making a comment like that. We already know that there is probably going to be restricted numbers of calves on export livestock lorries this Spring notwithstanding that the ferry companies (at the moment) are sailing on the same days and there is only so much lairaige in Cherbourg, it beggers belief that a presidential candidate made such a statement without backing it up with a solid solution.

alps

Base price wrote: »

Wrangler, in fairness anyone going forward for election to the highest post in our main farming organisation should know better than making a comment like that. We already know that there is probably going to be restricted numbers of calves on export livestock lorries this Spring notwithstanding that the ferry companies (at the moment) are sailing on the same days and there is only so much lairaige in Cherbourg, it beggers belief that a presidential candidate made such a statement without backing it up with a solid solution.

It may just be a sad reflection of the very few we now have who will put up their hand to represent...

Then......when you listen to the vitriol and hatred spouted about anyone who does, it's no surprise that we are left with what we have.

All I can say is well done to anyone who steps up to the plate....they are twice (no..multiples) of the people who always see right to piss in on those inside...

Whatever you think of them....they are all we got..

wrangler

Base price wrote: »

Wrangler, in fairness anyone going forward for election to the highest post in our main farming organisation should know better than making a comment like that. We already know that there is probably going to be restricted numbers of calves on export livestock lorries this Spring notwithstanding that the ferry companies (at the moment) are sailing on the same days and there is only so much lairaige in Cherbourg, it beggers belief that a presidential candidate made such a statement without backing it up with a solid solution.

What you're spewing there isn't justified, very few farmers would refer to anyone in those terms, those are personal attacks against people that aren't here to defend themselves. beef plan is full of it, you can vent there if you like.
The position is a poisoned chalice now because of people like you, if you have criticism there's plenty of meetings around the country so man up and do it face to face.

I won't be voting for Tim because like you he supported the protests

_Brian

wrangler wrote: »

What you're spewing there isn't justified, very few farmers would refer to anyone in those terms, those are personal attacks against people that aren't here to defend themselves. beef plan is full of it, you can vent there if you like.
The position is a poisoned chalice now because of people like you, if you have criticism there's plenty of meetings around the country so man up and do it face to face.

I won't be voting for Tim because like you he supported the protests

Is there a worse slight for any woman other than being told to “man up” 😂😂

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

1000 calves produced every year by one person, working a 35hr week, should be able to pay for the investment (buildings etc), and walk with €19k. Is it that bad?

The French equivalent of ICOS are paying for the milk powder, to help veal producers...will they continue to pay when its Irish calves that are being reared??

Teagasc and the IFA etc are pushing high input systems because they’ve no other solutions. Facts are, that farm size in Ireland is small, and often on poor quality land. The derogation is imperative to keep the family dairy farm on its feet.
When the derogation goes, and it will, it’ll push dairy farmers over the edge...ask the Dutch. The Dutch fcuked with the regs, their own environment and their Gov and the EU...they can march all they want, it won’t change a thing!!

I was giving an outline to French farmers a while back about Irish ‘low cost’ dairy production. Nobody agreed that using 1-1.5t/ha of N is low cost. Add in the price of land and conacre...?
Teagasc/IFA (etc) would better serve farmers by getting them ready for when the derogation goes and strict regulations are imposed on N usage...then again they didn’t see the calf crisis coming (?).

Then again 3thesquare got over 100 quid for calves, so all is good...:)

That sounds like it's better than dairy here. How many farms are actually able to give interest as well as a wage? Would there be two or three batches in the year?