Scottish independence

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243421#Comment_120243421

Is it? She was literally asked was that why she was resigning and she said it wasn't. Who's to say she didn't look at someone like Jacinda Adern and be inspired by her deciding to walk away. She's been in her job 3 years longer than Adern was in hers after all. Who's to say that it's not because of a whole host of other reasons.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243486#Comment_120243486

She was literally asked was that why she was resigning and she said it wasn't.

Of course she'd say that.

A Dub in Glasgo

I am not surprised she is going but I am surprised at the timing. She announced a special SNP conference a few months ago to 'discuss' next steps on the plebiscite election after the Supreme Court threw out the case. That conference is 4-5 weeks away and now she resigns. I think it is more likely to to do with the missing £600k from independence supporters than she is knackered and does not have the gumption to carry on.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243498#Comment_120243498

She actually said that she was at a funeral the previous day. It was for a friend and fellow activist and it struck her that no-one says at a funeral that the deceased was sorry that they did not spend more time in the office - or words to that affect.

Had enough and went out before failure forced her out.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243521#Comment_120243521

You actually believe that? How naïve!

She left because she could see she could read the room. With the trans solo run, she setthe actual goal of her party - independence, back years. That matters and certainly upset a lot of party folk. Like Arden though, she jumped before she was pushed.

All that trans stuff was a complete own goal and has pointed out to Scots that having a Westminster backstop could be useful for protecting themselves from ideologically driven policy that they don't support in Holyrood. It's just another stick to beat independence with, and worst of all one that Sturgeon conjured up herself.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243612#Comment_120243612

The people in Scotland need to take no lessons on any parliament driving through an ideological agenda especially from Westminster

Francis McM

Well, as someone else said N. Sturgeon has a lot of convenient memory losses though when it comes to why she supports abusive msps, why she had secret meetings to hand out government contracts at her home with no records or officials present, when she knew about a dodgy loan (£100,000 ? )her own husband made to the party she leads, about what happened to over half a million in funds for for the Independent Scotland campaign that’s gone missing and is subject to police investigation etc.

Scottish independence not only sounds a lot like Brexit (UXit?) that many have sounded the alarms about it. It reeks of “grass is greener on the other side” with incredibly little to back it up. Sturgeon kept making promises she wouldn’t be able to keep (, like paying the Scottish share of the UK national debt, like paying the pensions and unemployment of those in Scotland from the taxes of those in Scotland, like how the EU would somehow let her choose Scotland’s currency over the Euro?) and others. Scottish independence has been voted on. It was totally unrealistic and it has been a “no” for years. 

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243612#Comment_120243612

Yes, I do.

Look at Lucinda Adhern - more or less the same story. She (NS) has been at the top of her party, and it has plateaued, so time to go. Only failure will follow so get out at the top if you can. No point in hoping to get a nice eulogy.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243809#Comment_120243809

I think that there were more than just a couple unknowns about Scottish Independence. From currency, to citizenship, the funding of the NHS Scotland, military and defense, NATO membership and how easily or "seamlessly" as it was promised Scotland would be part of the EU.

Regardless of what Sturgeon and the SNP claimed or said, I wouldn't believe a word, that an independent Scotland would get to keep the British pound or be able to retain British citizenship, if they decided to leave. The reality is that leaving really means leaving and everything you've had before will be gone. It's the same lie, as Brexit UK, getting to keep all the freedoms with the EU, but at the same time leaving the EU.

Sturgeon has a lot of domestic issues, from the Scottish NHS to education, she did not succeed at the first independence referendum, and was unable to get a 2nd one.

The odd thing is, that Sturgeon was rather popular and liked in Scotland, but at the same time she failed to deliver at nearly everything else.

Mr.Nice Guy

https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1625804437104087042?cxt=HHwWhMC-vbGhgpAtAAAA

These are sobering findings for SNP voters. No obvious replacement stands out. Forbes apparently has strong religious beliefs that would appear to put her into conflict with much of the party. Could they try one of the younger candidates? Seems like a big ask given what's at stake in the coming years, yet the more experienced heads like Robertson and Swinney don't appear to garner a great deal of enthusiasm?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244326#Comment_120244326

I'm far, far from being an expert on Scottish politics but I've never heard of any of those people - and going by the "Don't Know" answers, I daresay a lot of those polled feel similar? Clearly none of these people stand out, personality-wise that they might be considered Leader candidates.

A Dub in Glasgo

The person who should be in with a good shout has been stymied by Sturgeon and the SNP leadership team - Joanna Cherry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Cherry

Lord Ashcroft poll of independence intentions on 3 February has the No's ahead by 11 points with don't knows at 15%. How long lasting the fall out from the transgender bill issue on the independence debate is remains to be seen. It crystallizing around the Bryson business seemed to create a perfect storm for the Sturgeon premiership.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244326#Comment_120244326

This is the big problem when you have a leader who is so prominent and successful that they become the party. The SNP were already lucky once to not suffer this after Salmond left.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244326#Comment_120244326

That poll was taken last week so most people have not been thinking Sturgeon needs replaced

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244286#Comment_120244286

Just on your point about not believing they'd be able to keep the British pound. That was surely never in doubt. There's nothing at all to stop countries using other countries currencies as their own. e.g., Montenegro uses EUR as it's official currency despite no agreement with the EU to do so.

It is not, admittedly, an ideal situation for any country (obvious stuff like you'll be affected by interest rates changes without having any input into the decision, inability to print, needing to be a net exporter to get currency in). But it's perfectly allowable.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244519#Comment_120244519

Also, a country can peg the value of their currency to another and print away. As long as they are fiscally prudent, there is no problem.

As for joining the EU, that is not really a problem as they are quite a good fit to the EFTA, which could allow them join the SM.

As for British Citizenship, that is solely within the gift of the UK, and anyone who has British Citizenship at the time of succession generally would be expected to keep it. Future generations might find they do not qualify - but who knows - someone has to pick the fruit.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244381#Comment_120244381

Cherry could only lead the SNP of the 1990s or earlier - Lib Dem equivalents - and not what it became under Salmond's second go.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244326#Comment_120244326

For those that think this was well planned and not someone running ahead of the heave need only to look at that. No chosen successor, no leader in waiting.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244617#Comment_120244617

No leader in waiting - where was the "heave" actually coming from then? Parties don't normally move against a leader if they have no successor candidate in mind.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244617#Comment_120244617

How do you know there is no 'leader in waiting'? Surely that will emerge over the coming days or weeks.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244519#Comment_120244519

I think it may be legally possible for Scotland to keep the British pound, but in practical life, I don't really find it feasible. Interest rates not set to the needs of the Scottish economy would be one major reason. Another one, would be the question, on why keep something if one is fighting to get independent from that at the same time. Montenegro is probably different here, as they at some point want to be part of that something bigger, whilst Scotland wants to leave that bigger entity.

I also doubt very much that every SMP of the SNP would actually approve of independence. I would suggest that only SNP hardliners would.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence

48% for no, and 37% for yes, that's almost back to the 1st referendum, that is, if the current polls are to be believed.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120243612#Comment_120243612

protecting themselves from ideologically driven policy 

Westminster a backstop against ideologically driven policy? Lol

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244894#Comment_120244894

You are downgrading dramatically from declaring "I wouldn't believe a word, that an independent Scotland would get to keep the British pound" to "its not feasible". That's fine, I don't think it's a great idea either. Was merely pointing out that any thought that they couldn't do it, or could be stopped from doing it, is completely wrong, and is basically just verbatim nonsense churned out by the Unionist side.

Your other potential flaws (that there'd be doubts over NATO membership, or EU ascension) strike me as incorrect as well, but can't be as readily disproven.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244894#Comment_120244894

Didn't we lock the punt to the pound for years ?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244948#Comment_120244948

NATO won't want to lose the radar range or north sea territory especially one side of the GIUK gap so I would say NATO will allow Scotland if they want in.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120244948#Comment_120244948

I am not downgrading things here. I disagree with Sturgeon profoundly. I think Sturgeon understood that she can't deliver her political "lifelong dream" of independence.

The next federal elections in the UK will to a strong degree bring a Labour government, and the SNP will have a difficult case to present independence to a Labour government and Labour voters, they find it easier to present independence to a Conservative government in Westminster.

Also the SNP will have internal issues, they have no real successor or front runner for Sturgeon, and also the question will remain, if Sturgeon can't deliver independence, who can? And then there are internal issues in Scotland, take a look at the Scottish NHS, a subject which Sturgeon has been consistently avoiding.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245120#Comment_120245120

What's a "federal" election ?

A Dub in Glasgo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120245120#Comment_120245120

Not this nonsense again

Sudden Valley

She was better than every single Tory prime minister thslat lead during her term, not very hard I know, and much better than her predecessor, Salmond, but even she could not deliver independence. I think SNP really have focus on developing an economy that can survive outside the uk to have any chance of keeping their hopes of independence alive in this generation