Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Niallof9

siltirocker wrote: »

If it irritates or upsets you that I think there are hints of prejudice in some people's opinions on these players representing Ireland, message me. And we can discuss it and i'll happy change my mind if presented with different ideas or facts on it. But honestly, your comments so far haven't derailed my opinions on it.

well i completely agree with you there was definitely a different tone but i think its water under the bridge at this stage. there's so many now i think people don't care. we'd be ripping it out of England or Wales if they did the same. A lineup say of Lowe, Aki, JGP, Stander, Kleyn would be problematic. Anyway the age of project players is over and only three are top tier quality;Aki, Stander and Lowe. And only Lowe offers something we don't reeally have.

I'd say there is an unoffical rule limiting it in a matchday squad.

I don't care once they perform up to the required standard. Thats why people criticised Kleyn cause he hadn't shown anything. JGP will be interesting. He's definitely been playing well but this is a step up and the criticism will come in thick and fast if he doesn't perform.

Clegg

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Tom Farrell?

Sorry, you're right.

clsmooth

Cooney is unlucky. It’s one thing to have POM in the squad but I’ll be disappointed if he’s starting either of the games. Healy hasn’t been particularly good over the last year, but there aren’t a huge amount of players putting their hand up for the LH spot. Backrow on the other hand is somewhere where we have a lot of options which can give us a bit of go forward ball. A pack with Kelleher, Ryan, Baird, Dorris and Stander should be able to get us moving up the pitch.

Hoping we see a bit of Marmion and JGP at 9. Murray has been no better than average for two years at this stage and offers little in an attacking sense (like POM) in current evidence. We need a bit more tempo from our SH which I think the other two give us which should give the backs a more opportunities of line breaks assuming we can get over the gain line up front. Who knows, Stockdale might be put into the situations where he’s proven to be dangerous in the past and be able to score a few tries.

aloooof

siltirocker wrote: »

Absolutely nowhere near the same level. Payne and Roux have even commented on this.

When Ah You was capped he was in good form and most Irish fans were calling for him to be called up. A look back on this forum even supports that.

I don't want to drag this out, but I'd be interested to see what Payne and Roux said exactly if you have a link?

siltirocker

OneLungDavy wrote: »

It's because this is an ideology to you, you are believing this based on no evidence.

An ideology? Relax fella, we're not talking about US politics or something.

You say no evidence. A simple google shows you that Ah You got it worse than Robbie Diack. Ignore it if you want. Or tell yourself that Quinn Roux or Gibson Park or wherever got it as bad as Aki.

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Payne, Stander, Roux etc, all got their criticism too. Personally, I thought Kleyn got it worse than anyone, not that it matters much who had it worse.

He did, but the argument there was "why are we putting in a debutant, that hasn't even really shone, ahead of Devin Toner."

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Anyways, I'm sick of this residency conversation.

Fooled me by consistently replying, or ignoring my offer to continue this privately.

hahashake

Niallof9 wrote: »

A lineup say of Lowe, Aki, JGP, Stander, Kleyn would be problematic. Anyway the age of project players is over and only three are top tier quality;Aki, Stander and Lowe. And only Lowe offers something we don't really have.

I'd say there is an unoffical rule limiting it in a matchday squad.

I'd hazard a guess that the rule only applies if the team is losing.

awec

That's enough on the race topic. Move on.

salmocab

Is JGP white? How is the suggestion that it’s racism for ah-you and Aki squared with JGP?
Apologies Awec

siltirocker

aloooof wrote: »

I don't want to drag this out, but I'd be interested to see what Payne and Roux said exactly if you have a link?

I can't recall Roux's, just remember him on the topic of it. It could have been on the42.ie. Payne's was a Radio New Zealand interview from around when Aki was capped so 2017 perhaps.

I remember O'Mahoney even came out and said he couldn't figure why Aki was getting so personally focused on. To the point of distraction for them. (Irish Times, Nov '17)

Niallof9

hahashake wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess that the rule only applies if the team is losing.

no i'd say there would be issues if it suddenly became 6 or 7 of the squad win or lose. we have acknowledged unofficial rules for foreign based players who knows what else. Anyway none of them are good enough to be consistent starters bar the holy trinity of Aki, Stander and Lowe.

Anyway its exciting seeing these guys play for their adopted country for the most part. JGP has touches of real quality.

Will Lowe be straight in for November?

AbusesToilets

Very harsh on Dillane, thought he'd been in good form lately. Can't see what Beirne has done to warrant a spot at lock, he's been anonymous anytime he's played in green.

ionadnapokot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Very harsh on Dillane, thought he'd been in good form lately. Can't see what Beirne has done to warrant a spot at lock, he's been anonymous anytime he's played in green.

6-2 split
I think we are going to see Roux, Beirne & PO'M on the bench for Ita & Fra

Its the only reason why i cant see room for Toner in the squad.

thebaz

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Very harsh on Dillane, thought he'd been in good form lately. Can't see what Beirne has done to warrant a spot at lock, he's been anonymous anytime he's played in green.

Dillane is another player who seams get very harsh desicions , always done well in a green jersey.

Guinness RFC

ionadnapokot wrote: »

6-2 split
I think we are going to see Roux, Beirne & PO'M on the bench for Ita & Fra

Its the only reason why i cant see room for Toner in the squad.

I’d prefer to see Baird ahead of Beirne and I think we will see that. Beirne only in there as cover.

ionadnapokot

Guinness RFC wrote: »

I’d prefer to see Baird ahead of Beirne and I think we will see that. Beirne only in there as cover.

You and me both!
But we wont.

Roux will be lock on the bench.

sydthebeat

while Healy has taken some stick here, and hes definitely in his twilight years... i think his selection needs to be look at from the point of view as to the contenders for his position.

Killers is injured and would be in the squad if he wasnt. Cronin and Loughman arent at his level, and cronin has hit his ceiling in my opinion. Loughman has moved across and is still learning his trade imo so may have a higher ceiling.

J Mc Grath is still trying to regain his lions form, and is steady without setting the world light up north. I dont know much about eric o sullivan other than hes wet behind the ears. Warwick and mccall arent in the conversation.

For all the Buckley love in the connacht forum hes not a test level player and still has scrummaging issues. Duggan is certainly one for the future.

So healys biggest competition for his position apart from kilcoyne is his team mate Ed Byrne, who is included in the squad and whom i expect will make hi debut in the next 2 games.

it will be interesting to see what happens in the autumn nations squad call out.... if kilcoyne is back

Guinness RFC

ionadnapokot wrote: »

You and me both!
But we wont.

Roux will be lock on the bench.

So why did you put Beirne on your bench? As 6 cover? O Mahoney will be in ahead of him!

awec

sydthebeat wrote: »

while Healy has taken some stick here, and hes definitely in his twilight years... i think his selection needs to be look at from the point of view as to the contenders for his position.

Killers is injured and would be in the squad if he wasnt. Cronin and Loughman arent at his level, and cronin has hit his ceiling in my opinion. Loughman has moved across and is still learning his trade imo so may have a higher ceiling.

J Mc Grath is still trying to regain his lions form, and is steady without setting the world light up north. I dont know much about eric o sullivan other than hes wet behind the ears. Warwick and mccall arent in the conversation.

For all the Buckley love in the connacht forum hes not a test level player and still has scrummaging issues. Duggan is certainly one for the future.

So healys biggest competition for his position apart from kilcoyne is his team mate Ed Byrne, who is included in the squad and whom i expect will make hi debut in the next 2 games.

it will be interesting to see what happens in the autumn nations squad call out.... if kilcoyne is back

If O'Sullivan is "wet behind the ears" then so is Ed Byrne. Not a lot of difference in their playing experience at a senior level.

ionadnapokot

Healy 100% deserves criticism
He reminds me of Bernard Hopkins!
A real warrior continuing the good fight but a shadow of his greatness at middleweight.

Problem is there is nobody good enough to replace him.

ionadnapokot

Guinness RFC wrote: »

So why did you put Beirne on your bench? As 6 cover? O Mahoney will be in ahead of him!

6-2 split!
e.g.
lock - Roux
backrow - PO'M
and another lock or backrow - Beirne

AbusesToilets

ionadnapokot wrote: »

6-2 split!
e.g.
lock - Roux
backrow - PO'M
and another lock or backrow - Beirne

Jesus wept, all star bench of anonymity

kingofthekong

Guinness RFC wrote: »

Just to add I’d have Butler in ahead of Conan who I don’t think has been playing well. Also would have liked to see Lyttle in ahead of Stockdale whose form is off as well.

Different players, Butler was likely competing with VDF as a 7 type role and not with Conan as a ball carrying no.8

Paul Smeenus

awec wrote: »

If O'Sullivan is "wet behind the ears" then so is Ed Byrne. Not a lot of difference in their playing experience at a senior level.

Agreed, and I think EOS is better, personally.

Squidgy Black

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Agreed, and I think EOS is better, personally.

Byrne's actually improved tenfold this season, he's stepped up massively. Scrummaging in particular has been a big change.

Paul Smeenus

This season? One game?

Squidgy Black

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

This season? One game?

Yes of course. Just the one game.

Paul Smeenus

In fairness, you can never tell with Leinsterfans.

ionadnapokot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Jesus wept, all star bench of anonymity

Thats right!
But unfortunately there will be no Lazarus like recovery for this team.
No Furlong. Ancient relics of Healy, Murray and Sexton guiding the way

There will be some craic on here when the team is announced!
Murray, PO'M, Roux and maybe Beirne if they do go 6-2.

Guinness RFC

ionadnapokot wrote: »

6-2 split!
e.g.
lock - Roux
backrow - PO'M
and another lock or backrow - Beirne

Yes and in that instance I would have Baird ahead of Beirne. You have selected Beirne on your bench and turned around and said you would have Baird ahead of him. Weird.

Guinness RFC

kingofthekong wrote: »

Different players, Butler was likely competing with VDF as a 7 type role and not with Conan as a ball carrying no.8

You’re assuming he’s not competing with Connors at 7 also? I think Butler offers more than Connors.