Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

phily2002

Buer wrote: »

Not really. He has been poor by his standards since rugby restarted and was dropped by Ulster for the Pro14 final.

There's limited space for scrum halves. Marmion and JGP have been the best. Murray has been solid if unspectacular and is a vastly experienced test player; his showings have certainly been comfortably better than Cooney's.

McGrath and Cooney don't deserve spots on current form.

If fairness Cooney's performance at the weekend was better than any Murray and McGrath have put in. I'd argue against Murray been solid as well, he's been pretty poor and slow.

Buer

phily2002 wrote: »

If fairness Cooney's performance at the weekend was better than any Murray and McGrath have put in. I'd argue against Murray been solid as well, he's been pretty poor and slow.

He was playing at home against Treviso. The interpros will count for far more and were mini trials for the squad. He was brutal in them.

I don't think Murray was anything special but he did his job. In the first game against Leinster, he put in an excellent box kicking performance and passed smoothly and accurately. That was enough for him to win a spot (which was never realistically in doubt).

He didn't need to do anything else. With the form of Cooney and McGrath, he didn't need to do anything more than not make some howling errors to be better than them.

phily2002

Buer wrote: »

He was playing at home against Treviso. The interpros will count for far more and were mini trials for the squad. He was brutal in them.

I don't think Murray was anything special but he did his job. In the first game against Leinster, he put in an excellent box kicking performance and passed smoothly and accurately. That was enough for him to win a spot (which was never realistically in doubt).

He didn't need to do anything else. With the form of Cooney and McGrath, he didn't need to do anything more than not make some howling errors to be better than them.

Fair enough it was Treviso but again Murray hasn't put in a performance that good all year. His box kicking was good in the first Leinster game but when it didn't work in the second he was clueless and kept doing it.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1313941173577420802?s=19

molloyjh

phily2002 wrote: »

Fair enough it was Treviso but again Murray hasn't put in a performance that good all year. His box kicking was good in the first Leinster game but when it didn't work in the second he was clueless and kept doing it.

That's not necessarily on Murray. If the game plan wasn't there he was goosed. If the 10 wasn't doing what he should have been he was goosed. If those outside 10 weren't doing what they should have been he was goosed.

Murray has been fine. No more. But thats better than McGrath or Cooney by and large. Murray should count himself lucky their form has been as poor as otherwise he might find himself dropped.

thomond2006

Possible Ireland squad

FORWARDS
Hookers: Dave Heffernan, Rob Herring, Rónan Kelleher.

Props: Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Ed Byrne, Andrew Porter, John Ryan, Finlay Bealham.

Locks: Ultan Dillane, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Ryan Baird, Tadhg Beirne.

Backrows: Will Connors, Caelan Doris, Jack O’Donoghue, Peter O’Mahony, CJ Stander, Josh van der Flier.

BACKS
Scrumhalves: Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Jamison Gibson-Park, Craig Casey.

Outhalves: Johnny Sexton, Ross Byrne, Jack Carty, Harry Byrne.

Centres: Bundee Aki, Chris Farrell, Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose.

Outside backs: Andrew Conway, Shane Daly, Jacob Stockdale, Jordan Larmour, Hugo Keenan.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/hugo-keenan-and-shane-daly-in-line-for-ireland-call-to-cover-back-three-1.4374830?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Burkie1203

Possible Ireland squad
FORWARDS
Hookers: Dave Heffernan, Rob Herring, Rónan Kelleher.

Props: Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Ed Byrne, Andrew Porter, John Ryan, Finlay Bealham.

Locks: Ultan Dillane, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Ryan Baird, Tadhg Beirne.

Backrows: Will Connors, Caelan Doris, Jack O’Donoghue, Peter O’Mahony, CJ Stander, Josh van der Flier.

BACKS
Scrumhalves: Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Jamison Gibson-Park, Craig Casey.

Outhalves: Johnny Sexton, Ross Byrne, Jack Carty, Harry Byrne.

Centres: Bundee Aki, Chris Farrell, Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose.

Outside backs: Andrew Conway, Shane Daly, Jacob Stockdale, Jordan Larmour, Hugo Keenan.

awec

James Lowe not included if that's accurate.

Clegg

There's a lot of things to like about that possible selection. Casey, Harry Byrne, Baird, Daly and Keenan are all exciting young players.

But really, POM in the squad is a pisstake at this stage.

Clegg

awec wrote: »

James Lowe not included if that's accurate.

I think he only becomes eligible after the 6Nations.

Burkie1203

Clegg wrote: »

I think he only becomes eligible after the 6Nations.

Yeah but I would have thought having him in the training camp would be beneficial

Yeah_Right

I would have left out POM and Murray for Butler and Cooney. And I'd go for Moore over John Ryan. He just gives away too many dumb penalties.

Captain_Crash

awec wrote: »

James Lowe not included if that's accurate.

After signing he stayed in NZ to play the ITM Cup before arriving in Dublin so didn’t get here until that November... he’ll be eligible come the November series of whatever it’s called now

UAEguy2020

aloooof wrote: »

Whatever way Farrell goes, I don’t see Conway missing out on the starting 15.

Yeah I don’t see it either, I mainly put Larmour with “/“ next to him because he and Conway would both be wearing the 14 shirt if they play on the wing.

UAEguy2020

No Earls 😮😮😮

Delighted to see Keenan and Daly though! I would imagine Lowe might join up in the autumn cup if not the 6N

Really like the look of the squad though and it’s nice to see player like Ed Byrne for example being rewarded.

aloooof

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

No Earls 😮😮😮

Delighted to see Keenan and Daly though! I would imagine Lowe might join up in the autumn cup if not the 6N

Really like the look of the squad though and it’s nice to see player like Ed Byrne for example being rewarded.

Earls is on the injury list.

UAEguy2020

aloooof wrote: »

Earls is on the injury list.

Just found that out, makes sense!

rayd3

Whinging over O’Mahony and Conor Murray, while Cian Healy being a total passenger in the squad goes unmentioned. Predictable.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Possible Ireland squad

FORWARDS
Hookers: Dave Heffernan, Rob Herring, Rónan Kelleher.

Props: Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Ed Byrne, Andrew Porter, John Ryan, Finlay Bealham.

Locks: Ultan Dillane, Iain Henderson, James Ryan, Ryan Baird, Tadhg Beirne.

Backrows: Will Connors, Caelan Doris, Jack O’Donoghue, Peter O’Mahony, CJ Stander, Josh van der Flier.

BACKS
Scrumhalves: Conor Murray, Kieran Marmion, Jamison Gibson-Park, Craig Casey.

Outhalves: Johnny Sexton, Ross Byrne, Jack Carty, Harry Byrne.

Centres: Bundee Aki, Chris Farrell, Robbie Henshaw, Garry Ringrose.

Outside backs: Andrew Conway, Shane Daly, Jacob Stockdale, Jordan Larmour, Hugo Keenan.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/hugo-keenan-and-shane-daly-in-line-for-ireland-call-to-cover-back-three-1.4374830?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Plenty to chew over there. Furlong must still be a ways off.

I thought O'Toole may have gone in ahead of McGrath given selections at Ulster. Porters inclusion suggests his injury may not be too serious. Delighted for Ed Byrne.

No surprises at hooker with Scannell injured.

Klyne and Toner miss out in the row, form selections otherwise.

Is Jared Butler eligible? Definitely playing well enough to be considered for the back row. Conan unlucky to miss out along with a few others.

The backs are a lot more contentious.

If that's Casey in with the senior squad then Cooney and McGrath have fallen behind a 21 year old with 11 caps for Munster. That's going to be hard to take for both players. Marmion the pick of the bunch so far for me, Park and Murray have been terrific at times too.

No surprises at out half but good to see Carty back (and fully deserved also). We're starting to have a bit of depth at ten again.

Hume and McCloskey unlucky to miss out, they've been an excellent partnership over the last couple of weeks. No real surprises though with the 4 named.

Delighted to see Daly come through - thought he had a good return from the break. Not sure if Keenan is there as a development player but he deserves to be in the running for squad selection. The closest I've seen to a Keith Earls type player since... Keith Earls.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I would have left out POM and Murray for Butler and Cooney. And I'd go for Moore over John Ryan. He just gives away too many dumb penalties.

You could almost agree or disagree with the above depending on the mood you are in. There is very little between these selections.

To play Devils advocate - POM is a player who occasionally goes missing for Munster but rarely goes missing for Ireland. He can go from mediocre performances to Lions test captain over the course of an afternoon. I still feel like he is more consistently excellent than poor, but I think his personality and attitude are keeping him in the squad at this stage. The double yellow must have really rocked his chances, and Jared Butler is absolutely deserving of a run out. I think O'Mahony's next few caps need to be some of his best because he's just about hanging on.

Murray has hit a higher ceiling this season than Cooney. Neither going great guns but Murray has shown more. It's going to be fascinating to see who starts at 9 for the next test.

As for Moore - I'm not sure if he is conditioned for International rugby based on performances so far this half season.

Yeah_Right

rayd3 wrote: »

Whinging over O’Mahony and Conor Murray, while Cian Healy being a total passenger in the squad goes unmentioned. Predictable.

Healy has more recent good form than POM or Murray. He was good at the RWC unlike the other 2.

Yeah_Right

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.

To play Devils advocate - POM is a player who occasionally goes missing for Munster but rarely goes missing for Ireland. He can go from mediocre performances to Lions test captain over the course of an afternoon. I still feel like he is more consistently excellent than poor, but I think his personality and attitude are keeping him in the squad at this stage. The double yellow must have really rocked his chances, and Jared Butler is absolutely deserving of a run out. I think O'Mahony's next few caps need to be some of his best because he's just about hanging on.

Murray has hit a higher ceiling this season than Cooney. Neither going great guns but Murray has shown more. It's going to be fascinating to see who starts at 9 for the next test.

As for Moore - I'm not sure if he is conditioned for International rugby based on performances so far this half season.

When was POM's last good game for Ireland?
Cooney has been out of form since the restart. Murray has been out of form for over 2 years.
You maybe right about Moore. I was only mentioning him because of the injuries at TH and don't think John Ryan is up to it.

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

When was POM's last good game for Ireland?
Cooney has been out of form since the restart. Murray has been out of form for over 2 years.
You maybe right about Moore. I was only mentioning him because of the injuries at TH and don't think John Ryan is up to it.

Thought POM was pretty good against Wales to be honest. Murray had a good game in the first game against Leinster.

bilston

Cooney has had what? 2 1/2 bad games since restart...even then he was excellent the other night against Benetton...and gets dropped from the squad completely??? What a kick in the teeth...hard one to take for him.

Paul Smeenus

OToole's injured and out for a while, and I actually think Moore has turned in some great performances - he looks like a marshmallow, but his actual performances aren't bad - he was excellent against Treviso.

AbusesToilets

POM continues to wrangle a spot despite of all evidence pointing to the contrary. Truly a modern mystery.
Far too many Munster forwards selected as a whole, based on what I'm not sure.

Disappointed that Lyttle didn't get a look in, haven't watched a lot of Ulster's games, but I would have taken him over Stockdale.

Burkie1203

rayd3 wrote: »

Whinging over O’Mahony and Conor Murray, while Cian Healy being a total passenger in the squad goes unmentioned. Predictable.

Healys form has been ok. He isnt anywhere near his best but "passenger" is well wide of the mark.

Murray should have been dropped long time ago. We won big games in 2018 without him yet he walks straight back in and has been performances have been average ever since.

POM is a passenger far too often. Tackle count usually quite low, doesn't really offer a carrying threat (something we really are lacking), was dropped for the Scotland game but Doris got injured in the 3rd minute.

We will in all likelihood go tried and trusted v Italy and win by the usual 45-15 scoreline and that will justify the same players going again v France.

Stander VDF Doris 20. Connors
JGP/Marmion either way should be our 9/21

Back 3 - Stockdale Larmour Conway but i wouldnt mind seeing Daly or Keenan getting a shot

Aki - Ringrose in centre

molloyjh

rayd3 wrote: »

Whinging over O’Mahony and Conor Murray, while Cian Healy being a total passenger in the squad goes unmentioned. Predictable.

What's the alternative at LH? What other player has shown top level Test rugby form?

I agree that Healy is not the player he was, and it may shock you to realise that others here have been commenting on his form lately, and not in a good way. But there's little point complaining about his selection if it isnt at the expense of someone more deserving. We simply have a very limited set of options at LH right now. Its something that I'd find concerning about both Leinster & Ireland.

aloooof

AbusesToilets wrote: »

POM continues to wrangle a spot despite of all evidence pointing to the contrary. Truly a modern mystery.
Far too many Munster forwards selected as a whole, based on what I'm not sure.

Well only the other week you were calling for Stander's exclusion. Based on what I'm not sure.

lawrencesummers

I’m not sure the Irish squad lends as much to our chances of winning a trophy in 2020 as much as the squad that England are able to pick.

We hadn’t a hope of beating them after watching the demolition of Leinster by Sarries but injury to Tuilagi and Lawes gives a glimmer of hope, along with the strong possibility of more COVID disruption in their squad.

Outside of that there is a lot of inexperience in the IT squad, and a few players not in form which doesn’t bode well either. Andy Farrell has a job on his hands.

At least we are including inexperience though. We are still at the start of a new World Cup cycle and giving chances to younger players at this stage is something a lot of us have been calling for.

Niallof9

an awful call regarding Cooney. it just sets a terrible precedent. A few players here or there have form held up as an easy out while others get a regular pass. its a running joke at this stage and must privately infuriate some.

If he goes with the "development" tag again for any of these lads, then i'm out, as its such a cop out from Farrell imo.

not a fan of this set up and i think it will run its course this season or the next as change and vision and new voices are needed.

This is the perfect time to take chances. No crowds, nobody really cares about the upcoming Autumn matches, no World cup seeding nonsense (which caring about is just a complete farce at this stage). Its now or never really. Blood players at will.