Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Buer

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Ok then argue with my Lyon versus juventus point.

There is a land border between the two areas (only 3 hours to Lyon by road) with people moving between the two areas every day. Turin is about 70km from France, thousands of people move back and forth every day regardless of any match.

Also, the outbreak in Italy has exploded only in the last 48-72 hours. They don't have the luxury of a 10 day lead in time to plan adequately and advise all those impacted.

Dravokivich

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

That's the point of dying. Life doesn't just go on.

Oh wait. You meant your life goes on, and **** everyone else, right?

Delightful.

Do you think the people who intended to come over for the match wont?

Shefwedfan

Are people really pissed off about this?

Do you have that little going on in your life your concerned about a stupid game of rugby while people are dying?

Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Buer

Dravokivich wrote: »

Do you think the people who intended to come over for the match wont?

A significant number won't. And it also will stop a concentration of several thousand Italians gathering in one spot alongside 45k Irish people.

Mr Flicky

Why so many Italians infected ? Is it the pasta or something that weakens their constituency

connemara man

MOD NOTE

Everyone calm down about the game being called off or cards will be handed out quickly

The Rape of Lucretia

Buer wrote: »

A significant number won't. And it also will stop a concentration of several thousand Italians gathering in one spot alongside 45k Irish people.

Spreading them out all over Dublin will surely help to contain them ?

Cookiemunster

Buer wrote: »

A significant number won't. And it also will stop a concentration of several thousand Italians gathering in one spot alongside 45k Irish people.

It only needs one infected Italian in a packed bar in Dublin to spread the virus. Some won't come, but thousands will. And thousands come and go from Italy every day through Dublin Airport.

salmocab

Buer wrote: »

A significant number won't. And it also will stop a concentration of several thousand Italians gathering in one spot alongside 45k Irish people.

Who then disburse to the 4 corners. I would say it’s probably erring on the side of caution, better that though than risk things. By the time of the match it’s likely things will have got much worse.

fitz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are people really pissed off about this?

Do you have that little going on in your life your concerned about a stupid game of rugby while people are dying?

Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Personally, I'm not pissed off at the games being cancelled, I'm pissed off that the level of cognitive dissonance in our governments position that allows them to think cancelling a match but doing nothing to prevent the travel of potential carriers is somehow the best way to protect the public health. No joined up thinking at all... We're told people's health and lives are paramount, but the expressions of concern about containment from government are at odds with their unwillingness to restrict travel into the country. It's not just here, to be fair, seems like everyone is just hoping this will go away with minimum disruption.

Buer

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It only needs one infected Italian in a packed bar in Dublin to spread the virus. Some won't come, but thousands will. And thousands come and go from Italy every day through Dublin Airport.

We do not have the option of closing our borders. We do have the option of calling off events which specifically target and encourage people from the most infected area in Europe to visit and congregate in huge numbers.

It's more than likely going to get into Ireland regardless of calling off the match. It's about reducing how much it takes hold as much as possible. Reducing the number of people coming here reduces the risk of the virus spreading. It's straightforward.

Squidgy Black

Buer wrote: »

We do not have the option of closing our borders. We do have the option of calling off events which specifically target and encourage people from the most infected area in Europe to visit and congregate in huge numbers.

It's more than likely going to get into Ireland regardless of calling off the match. It's about reducing how much it takes hold as much as possible. Reducing the number of people coming here reduces the risk of the virus spreading. It's straightforward.

You're forgetting as well Buer, there's no borders when it comes to Irish rugby.



Please infract me awec

TheAnalyst_

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

That's the point of dying. Life doesn't just go on.

Oh wait. You meant your life goes on, and **** everyone else, right?

Delightful.

Pretty much. 82 people die in Ireland every day yet I dint worrry about it all the time.

Buer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You're forgetting as well Buer, there's no borders when it comes to Irish rugby.

I hope the virus gets into the country now because your post already made me feel nauseous.

fitz

Buer wrote: »

We do not have the option of closing our borders. We do have the option of calling off events which specifically target and encourage people from the most infected area in Europe to visit and congregate in huge numbers.

It's more than likely going to get into Ireland regardless of calling off the match. It's about reducing how much it takes hold as much as possible. Reducing the number of people coming here reduces the risk of the virus spreading. It's straightforward.

Who's calling for closing our borders?
Restrictions on travel from affected regions isn't closing the borders.
You could implement screening processes for anyone who has been in affected region in the last two weeks. Is it difficult? Sure. But why are we only implementing the easy risk mitigations when we're told that even one death is too many?

I was in Modena just over two weeks ago, and when we arrived in Bologna airport, there were medics using infrared thermometers to take people's temperatures after we got off the plane.
There's plenty that can be done if there's true concern about containment, but just cancelling large scale events is a totally half assed approach.

Shefwedfan

fitz wrote: »

Personally, I'm not pissed off at the games being cancelled, I'm pissed off that the level of cognitive dissonance in our governments position that allows them to think cancelling a match but doing nothing to prevent the travel of potential carriers is somehow the best way to protect the public health. No joined up thinking at all... We're told people's health and lives are paramount, but the expressions of concern about containment from government are at odds with their unwillingness to restrict travel into the country. It's not just here, to be fair, seems like everyone is just hoping this will go away with minimum disruption.

Did you listen to the Off the ball interview.


Its not that easy to shut down travel, whole point of European union is to allow free travel between countries


As I mentioned already, companies are now restricting travel for business. People are getting encouraged to work from home if possible. Some companies in Dublin already shut down meetings to external people. Can be done via webex etc

My company has banned all travel unless critical. No travel to any of the affected countries no matter if critical or not. Find alternatives


All of this is getting done and you mention no restriction of travel???

fitz

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did you listen to the Off the ball interview.


Its not that easy to shut down travel, whole point of European union is to allow free travel between countries


As I mentioned already, companies are now restricting travel for business. People are getting encouraged to work from home if possible. Some companies in Dublin already shut down meetings to external people. Can be done via webex etc

My company has banned all travel unless critical. No travel to any of the affected countries no matter if critical or not. Find alternatives


All of this is getting done and you mention no restriction of travel???

My workplace is doing similar things, but that's proactive on their part. It's not a requirement, and it's impossible to measure how much corporate travel is being restricted. What private companies are doing is irrelevant as long as there's no restrictions within the travel infrastructure. It's all good intentions and hoping people do the right thing. Policy based on good intentions is guaranteed to fail.

I did listen to the OTB interview, and the free movement thing is f*cking nonsense. Free movement within the EU is about not needing visas, it's got nothing whatsoever to do with implementing temporary travel restrictions, which had been done in the past.

Are the logistics of identifying travellers who have been in an affected region complex? Absolutely, but if we're willing to not mitigate risk because it's hard to do, then we actually don't really care if people die. We're just hoping that doing the bare minimum will be enough to prevent it happening.

That's what's infuriating. We can't be told this is a meaningful public health risk in one hand, and on the other have nothing done about controlling clear exposures from affected regions through continued unrestricted travel. It's absolutely maddening, imo. Nothing to do with the games being cancelled, I genuinely think the government are completely bungling this.

Eod100

Most people against seem to be arguing that cancelling the match isnt enough. So want cancelling match and further preventions. If either way match is going to be cancelled then what is the issue..?

Eod100

Eod100 wrote: »

Most people against seem to be arguing that cancelling the match isnt enough. So want cancelling match and further preventions. If either way match is going to be cancelled then what is the issue..?

Some people really want to use this to throw shade at either the IRFU or the Government. I really don't think there is more to it than that.

Coronavirus is going to be everywhere and probably is vastly more prevalent than we think. What I imagine the government are doing is slowing the spread or at least keeping it staggered by avoiding large events. If a million people are going to become infected, it's better that it's gradual rather than sudden spikes.

Not sure closing borders makes any sense at this point. Could see the Brits doing it but I doubt EU countries will.

fitz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Some people really want to use this to throw shade at either the IRFU or the Government. I really don't think there is more to it than that.

Coronavirus is going to be everywhere and probably is vastly more prevalent than we think. What I imagine the government are doing is slowing the spread or at least keeping it staggered by avoiding large events. If a million people are going to become infected, it's better that it's gradual rather than sudden spikes.

Not sure closing borders makes any sense at this point. Could see the Brits doing it but I doubt EU countries will.

I think "throwing shade" is kinda trivialising valid criticism of how this is being handled, and I don't think it's just on our government. There's needs to be an EU wide approach to this, and so far, there seems to be very little coordinated leadership on it.
And again, travel restrictions doesn't mean completely closing the borders. If we're serious about containment, we should be restricting travel. If we're accepting that it's going to spread anyway, so why bother with targeted restrictions, then the hand-wringing about trying to minimise the risk of people dying is just theatre...
It may very well be the case that attempting to contain it at this point is futile, but if so, say that, and provide detailed guidance on how individuals can reduce the risk of exposure and transmission. Government statements that provide mixed messages (to risky to have fans travel/fans are still allowed to travel even if the game is off) are not helpful, the communication of the strategy for dealing with this had been flat out awful.

prawnsambo

fitz wrote: »

I think "throwing shade" is kinda trivialising valid criticism of how this is being handled, and I don't think it's just on our government. There's needs to be an EU wide approach to this, and so far, there seems to be very little coordinated leadership on it.
And again, travel restrictions doesn't mean completely closing the borders. If we're serious about containment, we should be restricting travel. If we're accepting that it's going to spread anyway, so why bother with targeted restrictions, then the hand-wringing about trying to minimise the risk of people dying is just theatre...

If you're restricting travel, what are the criteria? Blanket bans on all countries concerned? That's a lot of countries.

Isn't it better to restrict the affected areas? As they are doing in the affected countries and regions.

lawrencesummers

prawnsambo wrote: »

If you're restricting travel, what are the criteria? Blanket bans on all countries concerned? That's a lot of countries.

Isn't it better to restrict the affected areas? As they are doing in the affected countries and regions.

But that is clearly not working, because the virus is spreading from Italy.

fitz

prawnsambo wrote: »

If you're restricting travel, what are the criteria? Blanket bans on all countries concerned? That's a lot of countries.

Isn't it better to restrict the affected areas? As they are doing in the affected countries and regions.

Yeah, I guess this is why you need a centralised, cross-EU response to this. Have consistent approaches to travel restrictions with agreed criteria, and mechanisms that prevent people who have been to designated affected regions or who meet the criteria from getting on a plane elsewhere in the first place. Like I said, it's not easy, but I'd be much happier if we'd heard Minister Harris say he was coordinating with his EU peers to put common controls in place to help containment.

As it stands, it seems like they've just pulled these games, might pull the St Patrick's Day events, but don't seem to be doing anything to prevent the virus being carried here.

Eod100

prawnsambo wrote: »

If you're restricting travel, what are the criteria? Blanket bans on all countries concerned? That's a lot of countries.

Isn't it better to restrict the affected areas? As they are doing in the affected countries and regions.

BBC covering it on Newsnight now. NHS saying even with 99.9% travel ban might only delay a pandemic (if it became one) by a month or 2.

prawnsambo

fitz wrote: »

Yeah, I guess this is why you need a centralised, cross-EU response to this. Have consistent approaches to travel restrictions with agreed criteria, and mechanisms that prevent people who have been to designated affected regions or who meet the criteria from getting on a plane elsewhere in the first place. Like I said, it's not easy, but I'd be much happier if we'd heard Minister Harris day he was coordinating with his EU peers to put common controls in place to help containment.

As it stands, it seems like they've just pulled these games, might pull the St Patrick's Day events, but don't seem to be doing anything to prevent the virus being carried here.

There's literally nothing you can do to stop it being carried here. Even if you blanket ban countries that have cases (and the UK have 13), the incubation period will beat those sorts of controls easily. The best method is to continue with best practice and quarantine at source. There's an article in The Guardian about the Italian patient zero and how he escaped early detection because he hadn't been to China and was actually infected by a friend who had been there.

fitz

prawnsambo wrote: »

There's literally nothing you can do to stop it being carried here. Even if you blanket ban countries that have cases (and the UK have 13), the incubation period will beat those sorts of controls easily. The best method is to continue with best practice and quarantine at source. There's an article in The Guardian about the Italian patient zero and how he escaped early detection because he hadn't been to China and was actually infected by a friend who had been there.

I think we're kinda getting at the same thing....quarantining at source is effectively restricting travel.

bilston

I don't know if postponing the game is an overreaction or not. I can understand why it has been postponed and ultimately a game of rugby isn't important in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe the relevant authorities should have waited until the weekend or the start of next week before making the decision just to see how things develop. I suppose it.may not have made much of a difference.

Eod100

bilston wrote: »

I don't know if postponing the game is an overreaction or not. I can understand why it has been postponed and ultimately a game of rugby isn't important in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe the relevant authorities should have waited until the weekend or the start of next week before making the decision just to see how things develop. I suppose it.may not have made much of a difference.

Cases will only rise in the short term. Might as well give people as much notice as possible I think.

Podge_irl

Buer wrote: »

I hope the virus gets into the country now because your post already made me feel nauseous.

Nauseated.

This is more important than some silly world ending virus.

Burkie1203

prawnsambo wrote: »

Juventus are in Turin. That's actually a long way from Lombardy. The equivalent of Dublin and Belfast. It's not in the affected area.

Jucwntus fans are not confined to Turin. They have a huge following all over Italy