Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

AbusesToilets

POM's defensive jumping has to be one of the most overvalued stats going. Out of say ~10 lineouts we defend, we maybe jump for a small fraction of them, lets be generous and say 4. How many would POM steal per game at international level? So the chance of him making a couple of steals per game is seemingly to be worth having a player on the pitch who barely tackles or carries.

Saying he's superior to Toner is laughable, a player who hits rucks all day long, is key for our mauling and is a massive weight in the scrum.

lawrencesummers

AbusesToilets wrote: »

POM's defensive jumping has to be one of the most overvalued stats going. Out of say ~10 lineouts we defend, we maybe jump for a small fraction of them, lets be generous and say 4. How many would POM steal per game at international level? So the chance of him making a couple of steals per game is seemingly to be worth having a player on the pitch who barely tackles or carries.

Saying he's superior to Toner is laughable, a player who hits rucks all day long, is key for our mauling and is a massive weight in the scrum.

And which one got dropped for japan?

The Rape of Lucretia

Ireland not playing very well against Benetton at the moment. Very much a world cup stodge about them still. Doesnt augur well for when the bulk of them switch to their green shirts.

AbusesToilets

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And which one got dropped for japan?

I don't think using the results in Japan should be the hill you're looking to die on.

sydthebeat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And which one got dropped for japan?

That turned out to be a stupid decision after all.

Fair dues to toner for playing his way back into the squad.
Not bad for a player with no defensive line out ability

lawrencesummers

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I don't think using the results in Japan should be the hill you're looking to die on.

So which one got dropped for japan?
Toner did, and that’s because his work around the field is nowhere near what James Ryan Or jean Kleyn bring, and the Irish lineout doesn’t loose its ability to be successful because POM is in it.


This last few pages is because of the collective And embarrassing meltdown a number of posters have had about POM being included over ruddock, posters who simply don’t understand the basics of rugby and what each players brings to the pack, all they see is a blue or red jersey.

lawrencesummers

sydthebeat wrote: »

That turned out to be a stupid decision after all.

Fair dues to toner for playing his way back into the squad.
Not bad for a player with no defensive line out ability

That only turned out to be a questionable decision because of his post world Form, it was completely justified on his pre World Cup form, and it’s a mute point anyway unless you want to propose he should have started ahead of Hendo or James Ryan, a proposition that would be utterly impossible to justify.

And he does has some defensive lineout ability, just nothing near POM’s and nowhere near what he should have for his height.

AbusesToilets

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So which one got dropped for japan?
Toner did, and that’s because his work around the field is nowhere near what James Ryan Or jean Kleyn bring, and the Irish lineout doesn’t loose its ability to be successful because POM is in it.


This last few pages is because of the collective And embarrassing meltdown a number of posters have had about POM being included over ruddock, posters who simply don’t understand the basics of rugby and what each players brings to the pack, all they see is a blue or red jersey.

Ah hear, you keep digging any more, you'll catch fire. Kleyn maybe the only player more useless than POM. Schmidt made some really poor decisions in Japan with selection. POM and Kleyn to the forefront, and the terrible results followed.

lawrencesummers

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Ireland not playing very well against Benetton at the moment. Very much a world cup stodge about them still. Doesnt augur well for when the bulk of them switch to their green shirts.

Presumably it’s kidneys fault.

sydthebeat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So which one got dropped for japan?
Toner did, and that’s because his work around the field is nowhere near what James Ryan Or jean Kleyn bring, and the Irish lineout doesn’t loose its ability to be successful

So you now know the reason why toner wasn't brought to Japan?? Really?

Well why is what you've said above completely at odds with what the actual selector said??

Youre a walter mitty character I think, living in your own fantasy world.

lawrencesummers

sydthebeat wrote: »

So you now know the reason why toner wasn't brought to Japan?? Really?

Well why is what you've said above completely at odds with what the actual selector said??

Youre a walter mitty character I think, living in your own fantasy world.

Everyone knows why he wasn’t brought, he isn’t good enough and the other 2nd row players that travelled are and were better, bar playing outside of the country that’s the only reason players don’t get picked.

sydthebeat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Everyone knows why he wasn’t brought, he isn’t good enough and the other 2nd row players that travelled are and were better, bar playing outside of the country that’s the only reason players don’t get picked.

Schmidt has already said why he wasn't brought. While I think its a poor excuse, it is what the man actually said.
Perhaps you should go and find out why it was.

lawrencesummers

sydthebeat wrote: »

Schmidt has already said why he wasn't brought. While I think its a poor excuse, it is what the man actually said.
Perhaps you should go and find out why it was.

So you don’t believe it but it suits your provincially blinded narrative in this instance so your going to argue it.

He didn’t travel because the others were better. Simple as.

sydthebeat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So you don’t believe it but it suits your provincially blinded narrative in this instance so your going to argue it.

He didn’t travel because the others were better. Simple as.

I didn't say I didn't believe it.

Have you a comprehension issue?

Interested Observer

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Everyone knows why he wasn’t brought, he isn’t good enough and the other 2nd row players that travelled are and were better, bar playing outside of the country that’s the only reason players don’t get picked.

So why is he back in and Kleyn is dropped now. What are you going to come up with if he plays in the 6N?

It's a good thing we have unbiased posters like you around to tell us what's what.

Podge_irl

This is a slightly weird proxy war over Toner to someone discuss the inclusion of POM.

Anyone using lineout stats to justify the inclusion of POM should probably also have something to say about his otherwise horrendous looking appearances on the stat sheets for tackles and carries.

lawrencesummers

sydthebeat wrote: »

I didn't say I didn't believe it.

Have you a comprehension issue?

I due suffer from severe dyslexia yes, but I try and cope as best I can.

lawrencesummers

Podge_irl wrote: »

This is a slightly weird proxy war over Toner to someone discuss the inclusion of POM.

Anyone using lineout stats to justify the inclusion of POM should probably also have something to say about his otherwise horrendous looking appearances on the stat sheets for tackles and carries.

POM has the Highest number of turnovers of any Irish player in the last 6 nations, try and look at all the stats not just the ones that you want to back up a provinacial bias with.

The discussion of toner and POM is extremely interlinked as it is the basis or not of our offensive and defensive lineout and the balance of selection for the Irish pack depends on it.

lawrencesummers

Interested Observer wrote: »

So why is he back in and Kleyn is dropped now. What are you going to come up with if he plays in the 6N?

It's a good thing we have unbiased posters like you around to tell us what's what.

Because toners form has been consistent since japan, Kleyns and POM’s hasn’t and the Irish pack, like every pack that is picked needs balance.

Exactly the same thing I have been saying for a while now.

molloyjh

More pages to be skipped over I see. Wonderful.

awec

Kleyn is really not very good. He was completely out of his depth at the World Cup. Dropped like a stone for the six nations.

Be surprised if he’s ever capped again barring an injury crisis. Maybe pick up one or two against some tier 2 dross.

One of Schmidt’s worst mistakes as Ireland coach.

sydthebeat

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I due suffer from severe dyslexia yes, but I try and cope as best I can.

That certainly does explain your inability to understand statistics

Interested Observer

awec wrote: »

Kleyn is really not very good. He was completely out of his depth at the World Cup. Dropped like a stone for the six nations.

Be surprised if he’s ever capped again barring an injury crisis. Maybe pick up one or two against some tier 2 dross.

One of Schmidt’s worst mistakes as Ireland coach.

He should not get near an Irish shirt again really.

Clegg

I feel like Ruddock added a lot when he was subbed on for Leinster. We started muscling Benneton out of the game. Still flummoxed as to why he wasn't included in the squad. Doris went extremely well at 8 again. Has the muscle and hands to get us beyond the gain line. Deegan doesn't get as much of an opportunity to demonstrate his handling skills at blindside.

Dubinusa

As an aside, POM doesn't tackle much! Or does he make much whilst carrying the ball. So he is a fantastic line out operator, and obviously a premier star in the unseen/unknown work. But, if VDF is making all the flankers tackles.... I suppose POM can carry on the ninja work and show his mean face!
Kleyn is not an international class lock! He's probably at best good for the bench! He is very ordinary! His size is what's attractive.

theVersatile

Ye muppets, Kleyn is injured not dropped.

jacothelad

sydthebeat wrote: »

That certainly does explain your inability to understand statistics

...and bugry. I think that would explain the drivel.....or liverd....

Dubinusa

theVersatile wrote: »

Ye muppets, Kleyn is injured not dropped.

Still not good enough.

Interested Observer

theVersatile wrote: »

Ye muppets, Kleyn is injured not dropped.

He might be missing this week but was reported nobody missed out through injury, were all selections decisions.

lawrencesummers

jacothelad wrote: »

...and bugry. I think that would explain the drivel.....or liverd....

I would prefer if you didnt make fun of my disability, im not sensitive to the narrow mindedness of people and let things go but if your type of behavior goes unchecked and your are allowed to be horrible and ridicule somebody for having a disability you will insult the wrong person someday and it can have a profound effect on their life just because you want to drum up a little giggle.