Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Clegg

VDF was excellent again. He's been the best player in Ireland this season. If you're insistent that PoM and VDF can't play in the same backrow then it's a simple enough decision in excluding POM. Although I don't think they can't play together. They've performed well in the past in the same backrow. POM is just wildly out if form.

Faugheen

Clegg wrote: »

VDF was excellent again. He's been the best player in Ireland this season.

By a country mile. He’s on another level completely because he’s being allowed to show off more of his all-round game.

The Rape of Lucretia

VDF has developped very well this year all right, and is becoming a more rounded player. There is no one to touch him at 7 as long as Leavy is out.
A top form POM can work with him at 6. But only really top form. And he is a long way from that. Even then, it needs a top notch 8 in that scenario. It worked with Heaslip. It can work with Stander, but less so. And certainly not with the two Munstermen off form. Conan doesnt really make it work either.
VDF, Rudds, Deegan was the form combo to go with for Scotland. Andy has dropped the ball at the first touch here, but gets off the hook if its with an eye to the future and goes with VDF Doris Deegan. if Andy goes with POM, well, the writing may already be on the wall for a shortened tenure.

lawrencesummers

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

VDF has developped very well this year all right, and is becoming a more rounded player. There is no one to touch him at 7 as long as Leavy is out.
A top form POM can work with him at 6. But only really top form. And he is a long way from that. Even then, it needs a top notch 8 in that scenario. It worked with Heaslip. It can work with Stander, but less so. And certainly not with the two Munstermen off form. Conan doesnt really make it work either.
VDF, Rudds, Deegan was the form combo to go with for Scotland. Andy has dropped the ball at the first touch here, but gets off the hook if its with an eye to the future and goes with VDF Doris Deegan. if Andy goes with POM, well, the writing may already be on the wall for a shortened tenure.

Form didn’t come into it either in selecting possible 12’s.

JJJackal

Its hard to compare the international back rows (ie those who went to WC) to the non international back rows eg POM v Doris/Deegan.

They made a good point on OTB that the international players are rested alot esp over Xmas and thus it can appear that the non international back rows are in better form or simply better players.

That doesnt take into account the fact that the internationals are rested and dont get a run of games to show their skills - I suppose thats why AF has to take current form and what he knows about the WC internationals into account when making his decisions. International rugby is a step up from the Pro14

lawrencesummers

JJJackal wrote: »

Its hard to compare the international back rows (ie those who went to WC) to the non international back rows eg POM v Doris/Deegan.

They made a good point on OTB that the international players are rested alot esp over Xmas and thus it can appear that the non international back rows are in better form or simply better players.

That doesnt take into account the fact that the internationals are rested and dont get a run of games to show their skills - I suppose thats why AF has to take current form and what he knows about the WC internationals into account when making his decisions. International rugby is a step up from the Pro14

Some players can be selected based on having little form because you know they will show up on the big day. Sexton has very little form but has shown time and time again that he turns up when it matters. Kearney showed last year that he is capable of doing it when it matters but is proabably just that bit past it now.

Basing selection on the league would be foolishness

penybont exile

Following the numbness felt after our SF defeat at the WC thought I'd take a break from online rugby socialization. The impending 6N drags me back .... twas ever thus ....

On the Ireland XV .... If I was Farell I'd write 15 Leinster names on a piece of A4 ..... go for a pint or take the dog for a walk ........ then return to that list and from the remaining players available justify a potential swap position by position.

IMO he'd probably end up with @12 Leinster lads in the team .......

Clegg

Nice to have you back, peny.

lawrencesummers

penybont exile wrote: »

Following the numbness felt after our SF defeat at the WC thought I'd take a break from online rugby socialization. The impending 6N drags me back .... twas ever thus ....

On the Ireland XV .... If I was Farell I'd write 15 Leinster names on a piece of A4 ..... go for a pint or take the dog for a walk ........ then return to that list and from the remaining players available justify a potential swap position by position.

IMO he'd probably end up with @12 Leinster lads in the team .......

Thanks fully your not because you need 23 plus a few unused for a match.

Squidgy Black

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Thanks fully your not because you need 23 plus a few unused for a match.

What has that got to do with what he said? He's talking about the starting 15.

Podge_irl

penybont exile wrote: »

Following the numbness felt after our SF defeat at the WC thought I'd take a break from online rugby socialization. The impending 6N drags me back .... twas ever thus ....

On the Ireland XV .... If I was Farell I'd write 15 Leinster names on a piece of A4 ..... go for a pint or take the dog for a walk ........ then return to that list and from the remaining players available justify a potential swap position by position.

IMO he'd probably end up with @12 Leinster lads in the team .......

Wonder what the record from one province is for a starting team.

I recall 14 Ospreys in a Wales team that didn't end up too poorly.

penybont exile

Podge_irl wrote: »

Wonder what the record from one province is for a starting team.

I recall 14 Ospreys in a Wales team that didn't end up too poorly.

13 if i remember correctly .... @Twickenham ..... Gatland gradually diluted that team during what was a successful campaign ....

ionadnapokot

penybont exile wrote: »

Following the numbness felt after our SF defeat at the WC thought I'd take a break from online rugby socialization. The impending 6N drags me back .... twas ever thus ....

On the Ireland XV .... If I was Farell I'd write 15 Leinster names on a piece of A4 ..... go for a pint or take the dog for a walk ........ then return to that list and from the remaining players available justify a potential swap position by position.

IMO he'd probably end up with @12 Leinster lads in the team .......

The numbness of a SF defeat?

What we wouldn’t give to have some of your numbness.

penybont exile

ionadnapokot wrote: »

The numbness of a SF defeat?

What we wouldn’t give to have some of your numbness.

One for another thread ..... and a slow news day I think .....

ionadnapokot

Wait.... you’re trolling us aren’t you?

penybont exile

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Wait.... you’re trolling us aren’t you?

Nope .... just my thoughts on the Ireland team moving forward .....

ionadnapokot

I think Ireland will get the bounce effect under Farrell. If we beat Wales it could be a nice confidence builder.

Re: Leinster
Dorris and Kelleher would be the new faces & will hopefully be starting v Wales

Sexton is a disappointing choice for captain. Although I’m probably only one of two on here who thinks so!

Any hopes or indications of a new direction for Wales?
I see Zamitt went off injured today

Dubinusa

I think Deegan at 6 would be a failure. Not sure if Farrell asked Leo to do that v Benetton. I think Doris would be terrific@ 6. He's better in the close exchanges imo. Deegan is better on the fringes. I may be wrong, but I would love to see that at some point.

ionadnapokot

All depends on the role Farrell will ask of his pack and the type of shape he implements...if any. e.g Ruck heavy v offloading

Fascinating times ahead.
I’m Intrigued as to how the plethora of uncapped back row talent will develop over the next few years.
Dorris and Connors look a cut above the pack right now.

Going to start a thread on this tonight!

Bazzo

Dubinusa wrote: »

I think Deegan at 6 would be a failure. Not sure if Farrell asked Leo to do that v Benetton. I think Doris would be terrific@ 6. He's better in the close exchanges imo. Deegan is better on the fringes. I may be wrong, but I would love to see that at some point.

I doubt it. He's played there before (and even 7 I think?) And with the form him and Doris are in I'd guess Leocaster were trying to get all their best players on the pitch. I wouldn't say it was necessarily a failure or will be scrapped either. Everyone looks like a better carrier at 8 than 6.

penybont exile

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I think Ireland will get the bounce effect under Farrell. If we beat Wales it could be a nice confidence builder.

Re: Leinster
Dorris and Kelleher would be the new faces & will hopefully be starting v Wales

Sexton is a disappointing choice for captain. Although I’m probably only one of two on here who thinks so!

Any hopes or indications of a new direction for Wales?
I see Zamitt went off injured today

Maybe.... but I'd be putting the likes of O'Mahony & Stander out to graze in the long grass for this tournament. I would drop Murray too ...... nowhere near the player he was a couple of season ago.

As for us .... who knows ..... suspect we'll be a bit more inventive but I don't think well be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Was looking forward to seeing Zamitt against Italy .... looks like we might have to wait a bit longer to see him in red. Thoughts ..... if Zamitt was Irish would have been selected for this 6N ?

Bazzo

penybont exile wrote: »

Maybe.... but I'd be putting the likes of O'Mahony & Stander out to graze in the long grass for this tournament. I would drop Murray too ...... nowhere near the player he was a couple of season ago.

As for us .... who knows ..... suspect we'll be a bit more inventive but I don't think well be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Was looking forward to seeing Zamitt against Italy .... looks like we might have to wait a bit longer to see him in red. Thoughts ..... if Zamitt was Irish would have been selected for this 6N ?

He'd at least be with the squad I'd imagine, Balacoune proof enough of that.

ionadnapokot

Don’t know enough about Zammitt.
And who knows what type of selector Farrell is.

Stockdale and Conway are probably our best 2 wingers but I’m sure Earls will be retained.
Is he better than Earls?

lawrencesummers

penybont exile wrote: »

Maybe.... but I'd be putting the likes of O'Mahony & Stander out to graze in the long grass for this tournament. I would drop Murray too ...... nowhere near the player he was a couple of season ago.

As for us .... who knows ..... suspect we'll be a bit more inventive but I don't think well be throwing the baby out with the bath water. Was looking forward to seeing Zamitt against Italy .... looks like we might have to wait a bit longer to see him in red. Thoughts ..... if Zamitt was Irish would have been selected for this 6N ?

Stander was the only Irish player in Japan that performed consistently. YouR hatred of Munster is just sad.

AbusesToilets

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Stander was the only Irish player in Japan that performed consistently. YouR hatred of Munster is just sad.

You're beyond parody at this point.

Clegg

Stander definitely played consistently well. He was always solid but imo didn't have a standout game like Ryan against Scotland or Ringrose against Japan (for the first half anyway). Stander still has a role in the team. But maybe as a 6 rather than an 8.

lawrencesummers

Clegg wrote: »

Stander definitely played consistently well. He was always solid but imo didn't have a standout game like Ryan against Scotland or Ringrose against Japan (for the first half anyway). Stander still has a role in the team. But maybe as a 6 rather than an 8.

There are element of his play that are lacking, there are some things that stander just doesn’t to but what he does he does well and consistently so, anybody would do well to point out a bad game that he had. Him and Conway were probably the only players that came back from japan who could have been anyway happy with how their tournament went personally.

lawrencesummers

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You're beyond parody at this point.

A parody of what?

The Rape of Lucretia

Bazzo wrote: »

I doubt it. He's played there before (and even 7 I think?) And with the form him and Doris are in I'd guess Leocaster were trying to get all their best players on the pitch. I wouldn't say it was necessarily a failure or will be scrapped either. Everyone looks like a better carrier at 8 than 6.

Way back when the world was young, a certain Neil Patrick John Francis made his Ireland debut at No.8 in the white heat of a World Cup.
Not necessarily saying Deegan is in the that league, just that there is precedent for new caps, if they are versatile enough, to be played out of their primary position in order to het them on the paddock.

Podge_irl

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Stander was the only Irish player in Japan that performed consistently. YouR hatred of Munster is just sad.

Stander was, unfortunately, one of many Irish players who performed consistently at least.