Do you believe in God?

NickNickleby

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

No you don’t. No one on this earth knows. You, like millions of others believe there is a God and afterlife but you don’t know it for a fact. No one has ever provided a scintilla of proof in any form that God exists. You have faith, you don’t have proof.



I think your brother might be a little bit ‘special’

I don't think you've broken any laws here, but perhaps "Love thy neighbour as thyself" might be helpful.

gormdubhgorm

Francisco Blue Detective wrote: »

Chances are favourable, that there is indeed a (sky) God, the only argument against it is 'transportation' (as we understand it).
God is nearly always described as coming down from the sky, or speaking to Moses from above/the sky (other worldly), even Mary was came down upon in a 'visitation'.

How many planets in the universe can support life? A. 60,000,000,0000
What are the chances they are more god-like (more evolved than us?) Maybe 50:50 (for the sake of argument).

Odds of a existance of a God: 1 / 30,000,0000,000.
Odds of winning Euromills: 139,838,160 / 1

Note the position of the /1.

The bit I don't get about religion is that there are so many of them.
If you back one how do you know you are backing the wrong horse on the basis of chance/faith alone?

Plus a person's religion nearly always seems to be whichever religion a parent/s were so it seems to be the luck of the draw no real logic to it.

eviltwin

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not sure that it true because although many people in Ireland do not consider themselves religious or even believers.
Many were once and follow those frameworks and 'guidelines' still subconsciously at least.

I think the void religion has left though is mental health issues and the like.
People used to receive some solace in prayer years ago, when it was the done thing.
Now people have to be told to talk and interact with each other - they have to be reminded to think of others.
When religion was the in thing it filled this void.

It's all about the individual isn't it?

I grew up in a very religious home and it was used as a stick to beat me with because I didn't conform to what was expected. In the end religion, or the interpretation of that religion, was causing me harm so for my own mental health I had to leave. I'm much happier now but if you grow up with a very positive experience of religion then I'd imagine it's absence will have the opposite effect

I don't think either example is right or wrong. It's what's right for each person and their needs at that time.

AndrewJRenko

realitykeeper wrote: »

I know there is a God and an after life. I was watching a movie some time back and it it a leftist Portuguese intellectual was saying there is no after life and if there were, the eternity of it would be absolute hell. This is presumptuous. It exhibits a limited imagination. Even in this life, eternity is all around us in the form of time and space. God, who knows ever hair on every head, is our architect and as such the eternity which awaits the righteous is tailor made.

Why did the architect include cancer and bipolar disorder in his design?

NickNickleby

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The bit I don't get about religion is that there are so many of them.
If you back one how do you know you are backing the wrong horse on the basis of chance/faith alone?

Plus a person's religion nearly always seems to be whichever religion a parent/s were so it seems to be the luck of the draw no real logic to it.

As a child, I went to school in England. Most of my school friends were Protestant / Presbyterian and there was a scattering of Hindus, Muslims, Jews and maybe others. I knew this because we all said what religion we were and talked about it - with absolutely no rancour, but of course we were children.

When I was 10, the family moved back home to Ireland, where I met my first religious fanatics, the "Christian" Brothers. Bear in mind, in England I had attended Sunday School in the local Catholic Church as my school was non-denominational, and the priests and nuns there were lovely. Anyway, one day the Brother was telling us how were all almost guaranteed a place in Heaven, what with us being Catholics and all. In my 10 year old innocence I asked what was to become of all my non- Catholic friends in England. In fairness, he said if they were good children and did good stuff, God would make room for them. One of the few non madmen Christian Brothers I met. I use capitals because the ethos of the organisation was good and the behaviour of a few (I hope) was a total contradiction of that ethos.

AndrewJRenko

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't think religion makes a difference. If you're the kind of person who is kind, helpful and charitable then you'll be that way regardless.
Religion has been used to hide behind hate and judgment by people who are probably just nasty anyway. My only concern is how some religions feel they have the right to talk about how non members chose to live.

I think the void religion has left though is mental health issues and the like.
People used to receive some solace in prayer years ago, when it was the done thing.
Now people have to be told to talk and interact with each other - they have to be reminded to think of others.
When religion was the in thing it filled this void.

Mental health issues were always here. We just locked large numbers of the more serious cases up out of sight (often as a nice little earner for religious orders). The remainder were told to 'offer it up' and STFU in case it's contagious.

4068ac1elhodqr

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The bit I don't get about religion is that there are so many of them.
If you back one how do you know you are backing the wrong horse on the basis of chance/faith alone?

You can back a race today, and using the 'to place' type of bet, you can win if it finishes anywhere in the top8. There are many places in the non-physical concept of heaven, and for many people, from any alternative system(s) as long as they abide by the house rules and get along.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus a person's religion nearly always seems to be whichever religion a parent/s were so it seems to be the luck of the draw no real logic to it.

In terms of religions, they're simply a moral guide, aside from direct chats to the skygod (Moses) most the bible just consists of letters from various folks, and relaying of verbal messages of events/parables.

Any adult of sane mind can (ideally) choose to throw off their robes, burn their burka or wear a orange jumpsuit like the Buddists, if they feel it's the right choice for them.
Generally it should be good for them, good for others, and thus in the 'greater good', for it to be useful to the progession of a very primitive species such as us humans.

AndrewJRenko

Drumpot wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

Yes 100, having lost 2 kids and parents and 4 siblings in the last 13 years without God in my life I wouldn't be here,know it's personal but I'll ALWAYS big up my God

It’s funny cause I do visit my dads grave and do talk to him sometimes. I really miss him but I don’t get caught up worrying about if he’s listening or in heaven. I just find it cathartic.

You know atheists can do this too right?

AndrewJRenko

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Surely if they need the fear of god to be nice to people, they arent nice people and are just being nice so god doesnt smite them?

That is one of looking at it the negative way.
But I don't know if you follow GAA - but there is a manager for tyrone called Micky Harte he is very religious.
His faith has kept him sane in the face of tragedy when his daughter was murdered.

https://extra.ie/2018/03/30/news/real-life/mickey-harte-documentary-death-daughter

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/family-faith-and-football-the-mickey-harte-interview-1.3369507

If that brings a guy solace what is the harm in it?
I might not believe in it myself nor need it - but I would not knock it outright just because I don't.

The harm in it is that he insists that the full team attends Mass with him before each match, abusing his position to impose his personal beliefs on others.

NickNickleby

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The harm in it is that he insists that the full team attends Mass with him before each match, abusing his position to impose his personal beliefs on others.

I've always associated GAA with Fianna Fail, 'republican' songs and Irish Catholicism, so the news that GAA players go to mass before a match doesn't surprise me. That Mickey Harte insists on it IS news to me though. I've met the man, he doesn't strike me as a religious fanatic.

pearcider

Drumpot wrote: »

If a person who wants the end of religion hasn’t asked themselves “what will we lose with the end of religion” they haven’t really thought it through at all. This is such a mob pitchfork mentality, wipe something out without learning anything.

There are so many good practices in religion that will be lost and replaced with individualistic selfish principles. Consumerism is one thing filling the void. Another one is Online media bullsh*t platforms like Facebook and Instagram that are giving people alternative ways of reaching their congregations and in doing so isolating themselves more from reality.

Tradition is a set of solutions for which we have forgotten the problems. Christianity has been responsible for most of the good in the modern world and most of the people who led to our humane society today we’re devout Christians...it changed the world for the better, building schools and institutes of higher learning, building hospitals and health clinics, running charities, etc. to overcome ignorance and the help the poor, the sick, the downtrodden. Sadly, people forget this today and only focus on the minority of clergy who abused people. Let us not forget, that satan brought Jesus to the top of the mountain and the world of materialism and wealth is ruled by him.

Drumpot

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know atheists can do this too right?

Never said they can’t but how do they justify what they are doing? There is a difference between fondly remembering a loved one to actually talking with them for comfort.

An atheist is effectively talking to an imaginary person (sound familiar)who doesn’t exist anymore.

Having an emotional attachment to somebody makes it understandable. But if you think they don’t exist anymore (no heaven) you are effectively talking to yourself and creating a second character ( that doesn’t exist) to be a part of the conversation.

AndrewJRenko

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Nobody believes in God. If they did believe there was a all knowing being that would judge us at the end for our sins then they would be much better people.

I know God doesn’t exist, but I try to live like he does.

Are you inaccurate much or do you just pretend to be?

I believe in God.

He won't judge us for our sins, He'll judge us for not believing in His Son.
When we do that, He starts a process that transforms us and gives us hope in this life and the next.

Doesn't it all seem a bit needy? Why would he care whether he believed in him or not? Why would he want so much to be adored?

Do you think he causes less people to be killed on Mayo roads each year because they have an official 'bless the roads' ceremony each year?

AndrewJRenko

Drumpot wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You know atheists can do this too right?

Never said they can’t but how do they justify what they are doing? There is a difference between fondly remembering a loved one to actually talking with them for comfort.

An atheist is effectively talking to an imaginary person (sound familiar)who doesn’t exist anymore.

Having an emotional attachment to somebody makes it understandable. But if you think they don’t exist anymore (no heaven) you are effectively talking to yourself and creating a second character ( that doesn’t exist) to be a part of the conversation.

I guess the difference is that the atheist knows that they are actually talking to themselves, whereas the Christian pretends otherwise.

AndrewJRenko

NickNickleby wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The harm in it is that he insists that the full team attends Mass with him before each match, abusing his position to impose his personal beliefs on others.

I've always associated GAA with Fianna Fail, 'republican' songs and Irish Catholicism, so the news that GAA players go to mass before a match doesn't surprise me. That Mickey Harte insists on it IS news to me though. I've met the man, he doesn't strike me as a religious fanatic.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-squad-put-faith-in-pre-match-rosary-455117.html

Drumpot

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I guess the difference is that the atheist knows that they are actually talking to themselves, whereas the Christian pretends otherwise.

So you talk to yourself , you know you are talking to yourself and you know nobody is listening.. So what are you getting from it?

I’m genuinely curious to know what you get out of talking to yourself. How does that console you? In your head you have created a clone of your loved one, a clone that’s a lie because it only represents what you rememeber. Is it to connect with them on some level?

But again, you are lieing to yourself and making uo an imaginary person. Do you not see the irony?

stratowide

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-squad-put-faith-in-pre-match-rosary-455117.html

What happens if both teams go to mass..?

Surely this is a dilemma even for god.

How will it be decided..the most prayers..?favourite team maybe..?

Hmmm it's a tough one for him alright.

railer201

It's amazing how some boards posters seem to be on a par with God, possessing at least two of his qualities - omniscience and omnipresence and in the case of some mods, one could add in omnipotence as well. pac:

corks finest

Zorya wrote:

That is unimaginable suffering. My sincere condolences to you.

Thank you,the man above has guided me off the booze- back to church-
custody of my youngest- a house ( Cluid) and beliefs that I had lost for years,
not preaching,
each to his / her own but for me he's a major part on our lives( and I'm no holy Joe ) but realistically know that I couldn't have done it without a Christian belief
( Anyone feeling lost reference
guidance etc I joined a Taize group last year and really enjoy it- Christian music/ reflection/ prayer)-no priest/ minister etc involved

corks finest

Great points

Zorya

stratowide wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/tyrone-squad-put-faith-in-pre-match-rosary-455117.html

What happens if both teams go to mass..?

Surely this is a dilemma even for god.

How will it be decided..the most prayers..?favourite team maybe..?

Hmmm it's a tough one for him alright.

That is where thunder and lightning come from.

corks finest

Drumpot wrote:

But it actually shines a light on another part of religion. The comfort it can bring and how can help heal a family. Those who detest religion will never really discuss this and will try to turn it around.

You're spot on reference comfort,I've learned to handle my grief through God,I'm not ashamed to say I talk to my God,the holy spirit,Mary,my dead relatives it makes me connect,( I'm not in about talking in public etc,but in a quit moment of reflection,or looking at a loved ones photo etc)

corks finest

Zorya wrote:

The people who yak about the cruelty of religions are really talking about the cruelty of humans and the cruelty of political machinations. Politics take over all religions, they become power structures. I always saw the church as a political institution as a child and found it hollow, left at 16. It is the same politics in Lamaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, everything, people sucking at power. The exoteric manipulation of crowds and creeds. But there are great thinkers and great thought to be found since forever in the esoteric or inner parts - without which we would be a lesser species.

One doesn't have to follow,be part of any religious group to recognise the good ppl involved in all religions, personally I pray to my God mostly on my own, swimming in Roberts cove, walking the cliffs,late at night in bed etc,I also enjoy communion with like minded ppl in church,and of course our youth folk group in Carrigaline at 6 mass make each mass a special uplifting experience

corks finest

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote:

No you don’t. No one on this earth knows. You, like millions of others believe there is a God and afterlife but you don’t know it for a fact. No one has ever provided a scintilla of proof in any form that God exists. You have faith, you don’t have proof.

Faith is the basis for all religions,those who don't understand or have it are at a loss to fully understand ppl with a religious belief

corks finest

Same as

uptherebels

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Might you be confusing me with someone else?

To your point though - you’re again conflating “the Church” with “people who are guilty of aiding and abetting criminals”. They’re not even close to being the same thing. Draw a Venn diagram and there would be a very small intersection between the two groups. You even admit as much yourself when you acknowledge that a small number of church members committed crimes (we’re agreed on that much), but then you go completely off the reservation to try and tar the majority of members of the Catholic Church, before coming back to again acknowledging that it was “the higher ups” (and I would suggest only a minority among the higher ups), who aided and abetted and facilitated criminal behaviour among a minority of it’s members.

The argument is as dumb as suggesting that the majority of rapes are committed by men, therefore all men are guilty of committing rape, and if men don’t buy into the whole “rape culture” nonsense, they’re aiding, abetting and facilitating the minority of men who commit rape. I’d tell anyone to fcuk off with that kind of shìte if they tried to associate me with rapists solely by virtue of the fact that we share one trait in common.

No not confusing you with someone else, alas touch screen phones. You can't separate the church from its membership. Those that committed crimes were protected by others who are in turn supported by the rest.
The difference to your ridiculous rape comparison is that men who commit rapes don't have the support and protection of any group or organisation in an effort to protect its power and money, least of all one that preaches "morality".

the beer revolu

corks finest wrote: »

Faith is the basis for all religions,those who don't understand or have it are at a loss to fully understand ppl with a religious belief

Was that not cjc's point?
Religious people have faith in the existence of god. They, no matter how much they believe, do not "know" that god exists.

uptherebels

realitykeeper wrote: »

I know there is a God and an after life. I was watching a movie some time back and it it a leftist Portuguese intellectual was saying there is no after life and if there were, the eternity of it would be absolute hell. This is presumptuous. It exhibits a limited imagination. Even in this life, eternity is all around us in the form of time and space. God, who knows ever hair on every head, is our architect and as such the eternity which awaits the righteous is tailor made.

You are confusing "know"with "think"

Drumpot

corks finest wrote: »

You're spot on reference comfort,I've learned to handle my grief through God,I'm not ashamed to say I talk to my God,the holy spirit,Mary,my dead relatives it makes me connect,( I'm not in about talking in public etc,but in a quit moment of reflection,or looking at a loved ones photo etc)

I’ve suffered my own demons and spiritual strategy’s have been infinitely more helpful then intellectual or scientific approaches that to be honest nearly drove me to suicide.

I don’t have any prejudice against religions but have found a way to be kind of ok with just not being sure. I am sure of nature and that represents my concept of a higher power. I talk to nature, talk to my dog/rabbit and try to reconnect with people I care about even if it’s just a brief few seconds of looking at them and In that eternal moment loving their every being.

I don’t necessarily believe in a god with a beard and heaven but when I was going to the hospital after my dad had a stroke I got great comfort/strength from saying to myself “god grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change , the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. If my dad is going to die please help me have the strength to be strong for my family”. It was a moment I had before entering the hospital and meeting up with my family.

I can’t explain who I was talking to and I don’t feel the need to think about it. It gave me strength and I was able to organise my dads funeral and be very helpful to my family.

I’ve always been worried since I was a child that god didn’t exist but went to mass and prayed when I was younger. I am more comfortable just accepting I don’t know. An atheist didn’t know either but they have decided to not believe in anything because science can’t explain our existence and our universe. I’m ok with atheists who just accept that and don’t sh*t on religion.

One eyed Jack

uptherebels wrote: »

No not confusing you with someone else, alas touch screen phones. You can't separate the church from its membership. Those that committed crimes were protected by others who are in turn supported by the rest.

I wasn’t separating the Church from it’s membership. I’m just not interested in suggesting that every member of the Church is complicit or tacitly approves of the wrongdoing of a minority of it’s members. Your suggesting that members of the Church are responsible for the actions of a minority of it’s members is the same in principle as suggesting that victims of abuse are responsible for the actions of the people who commit abuse against them given that they were, and the vast majority of victims of abuse still are, members of the same Catholic Church. You sure you want to stick to that logic? I’ll tell you now it’s nonsense if you so much as gave it more than 30 seconds thought.

uptherebels wrote: »

The difference to your ridiculous rape comparison is that men who commit rapes don't have the support and protection of any group or organisation in an effort to protect its power and money, least of all one that preaches "morality".

You’re actually serious? Of course they do. That’s precisely how they were able to commit rape and abuse and have their crimes covered up, because they have a combination of power, wealth and influence in society which enables them to weave their way into positions where they have the capacity to commit crimes and have them covered up, while all the time portraying themselves as pillars of their respective communities.

One would imagine the recent scandals in all different walks of life and organisations would have taught you that much, that corruption and malfeasance isn’t an intrinsic part of any ideology or community, but there are always the minority of opportunistic fcuks will manipulate people’s idealism for their own nefarious purposes. It doesn’t follow that all members of that community or all people who subscribe to a particular ideology are degenerate fcukwits.