Do you believe in God?

Drumpot

pgj2015 wrote: »

have we? has grace been asked this already? im just curious as to why people believe in god when there seems to be zero evidence of his/her existence.

I’m not saying there is a god and am prob an agnostic, but do you believe the universe is infinite and came from a massive explosion out of nothing? Or there is multi verses and the universe has a finite size that we can’t see or know what exactly that is? As far as I know that’s the best we can come up with using science. We don’t know what the building blocks of the universe are, we presume we can work them out by looking at stuff light years away but we have never had a person past our moon. It’s like me looking out my window and trying to map out the world, it’s impossible.

Assuming we don’t kill ourselves, cause we are too stupid to actually implement a self preservation global strategy, how stupid will what we believe , even scientifically, look in 1000 years?

People get too hung up on the higher power element of religion. Nature can be a higher power, it’s far more balanced then man and you can trust it’s indiscriminate reactions.

But going back to the point. What do you believe in? That we came from nothing? That the universe is infinite? What do you think it means when scientists say that energy leaves our bodies when we die? Where does it go? What is consciousness?

You can ridicule people who believe in an after life but the the truth is atheists don’t have any idea what the F**k is going on anymore then those who follow a religion. That’s why I find their “religion is stupid” stance so silly. None of us know what’s going on, some have chosen their own ways of processing a life even our brainiest people can’t explain.

gormdubhgorm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I see religion as a pointless exercise that doesnt add anything that cant be done without it

So you cannot see how some people find solace from it in times of need?
Or how it can bring people together especially in times of need - community, support etc

All that seems to go way over your head.
It is not pointless for the people that find strength and joy in it - making them better people to thier fellow man.

Yester

pgj2015 wrote: »

have we? has grace been asked this already? im just curious as to why people believe in god when there seems to be zero evidence of his/her existence.

There is this whole mystery of our existence. Some people find an answer in God, some in science. It's bat**** crazy either way.

Guy:Incognito

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Would you drink drive if the law was not there?
Would you use the phone while driving if the law was not there?

Also where did your parents get thier morals from and thier parents before them and so on?

You can know whats right or wrong without a law or a church to tell you.

We need laws because some people need to be told.

NickNickleby

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Personally I dont need the laws to tell me, no.
...............

The part of your quote I obliterated (just to save space and reading time) could be describing ME to a 't'.

But I'm sure neither of us would want all laws to be rescinded. I think religious teaching achieves the same thing, and I think - this is based on 'something I read, somewhere, sometime' - religious teachings existed long before written laws.

Guy:Incognito

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So you cannot see how some people find solace from it in times of need?
Or how it can bring people together especially in times of need - community, support etc.

I never said that. I said you can find the same by applying a belief in anything.

If there were a handful football teams in the world and the vast majority of Ireland supported Liverpool, it could just as easily be Liverpool that comforts and brings them together.

Zorya

I dont know whether there is God or not. I do know that we are fantastically complex molecular creations capable of exquisite cognition, some of our perception/deduction capacity is rational and some of our apprehension seems inexplicable, like precognizance, intuition, etc, and that we find ourselves existing very briefly on a goldilocks planet that is teeming with stunningly beautiful and complex diversity, a sphere which spins and orbits on boundless cosmic pathways, moving insanely quickly through a vast galaxy that appears to be astonishly and excessively beautiful, and yet it is still but one infinitesimal part of the known universe, a universe that expands in unimaginable vastness the more capable we become of perceiving it, a universe that to the limits of our apprehension appears not so far to have conditions conducive to complex self aware life forms, and that the complexity of this ever growing universe is reflected in the complexity of our inner cellular structures which are equally stupendous and this kind of line of thought causes me to lean towards the idea of a divine reality behind all things, not cranky Yahweh on his throne, or so on, but some inexplicable and perhaps unknowable force that animates all things, known, unknown and unknowable. Its a beautiful life. In short I do believe we have souls, all of us, even progressive liberals hehe , and I love the crazy depth that gives us all.

gormdubhgorm

eviltwin wrote: »

I wouldn't but thats just me, its to do with the individual not their religious beliefs

One of my parents was very religious and the other not so much. Guess which one was abusing us?

The point I am making is that when religion is used for it's true purpose it can be good. Those who hide behind religion and use it for an excuse to commit evil acts are just codding themselves and not practicing what they preach.

As I said I don't believe in it - I figure that I die and fall by my own decisions down here end of story. No safety net required.
My philosophy is similar to 'love one another' but it is closer to the boards.ie rule 'don't be a dick'.
If you take away all the 'afterlife' stuff with religion there were some good stories in the bible - parables etc. Makes you think.

Drumpot

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The point I am making is that when religion is used for it's true purpose it can be good. Those who hide behind religion and use it for an excuse to commit evil acts are just codding themselves and not practicing what they preach.

As I said I don't believe in it - I figure that I die and fall by my own decisions down here end of story. No safety net required.
My philosophy is similar to 'love one another' but it is closer to the boards.ie rule 'don't be a dick'.
If you take away all the 'afterlife' stuff with religion there were some good stories in the bible - parables etc. Makes you think.

That’s kind of how I feel. Religion is not all bad. Wars are not caused because of religion, it’s because of people. Mankind will find a way to corrupt everything. The wrong person/people in any position in anything, religion , politics, finance, police, capitalism, communism, anything man made can be corrupt.

Sure we don’t we all subscribe to Capitalism that’s corrupted all the time with certain institutions getting financial bailouts and assistance ? That’s corruption but since we all supposedly benefit (we need banks) we don’t care about it.

Religion, in my view is about organised practicing of harnessing community and general good morals/ethics. It’s corrupted by bad people, like everything else man made, but at its core it’s got a lot of good teachings.

gormdubhgorm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I never said that. I said you can find the same by applying a belief in anything.

If there were a handful football teams in the world and the vast majority of Ireland supported Liverpool, it could just as easily be Liverpool that comforts and brings them together.

Ah but whether you realise it or not religion has been the framework for laws all around the world. Even if you look at common law jurisprudence.
There is protocol to acting to others in society as well as the level of comfort.

It is precisely because many have turned away from religion that they seek the comfort elsewhere - sense of belonging belief etc.

But the fundamental rules/laws/behaviours are still there even many non church goers/believers still celebrate Christmas - and get into the Christmas spirit for example.

eviltwin

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The point I am making is that when religion is used for it's true purpose it can be good. Those who hide behind religion and use it for an excuse to commit evil acts are just codding themselves and not practicing what they preach.

As I said I don't believe in it - I figure that I die and fall by my own decisions down here end of story. No safety net required.
My philosophy is similar to 'love one another' but it is closer to the boards.ie rule 'don't be a dick'.
If you take away all the 'afterlife' stuff with religion there were some good stories in the bible - parables etc. Makes you think.

I don't think religion makes a difference. If you're the kind of person who is kind, helpful and charitable then you'll be that way regardless.
Religion has been used to hide behind hate and judgment by people who are probably just nasty anyway. My only concern is how some religions feel they have the right to talk about how non members chose to live.

cj maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there such a thing as an atheist who gambles on ("plays") the lottery? Given that the odds of winning Euromillions, for instance, are 1 in 140 million, how would an atheist rationalise buying Euromillions tickets?

140 million to one on the lotto are still better odds than there being a God. ?

Ultrflat

the beer revolu wrote: »

If there was a god, he would have removed that unoriginal, unfunny thought from your head before you posted it.

I guess there ain't a dog, because I'm still able to do it. :eek:





/thread

gormdubhgorm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You can know whats right or wrong without a law or a church to tell you.

We need laws because some people need to be told.

A church has laid the framework for those laws though

You are telling me if there was no laws against the use of coal/drinking driving/phone use in the car your behaviour would not have changed?

Those things above maybe minor in the greater scheme of things, but they are all about bettering society making it a safer and better place.
It is a similar philosophy to many religions - it still permeates today whether you realise it or not.

gormdubhgorm

eviltwin wrote: »

I don't think religion makes a difference. If you're the kind of person who is kind, helpful and charitable then you'll be that way regardless.
Religion has been used to hide behind hate and judgment by people who are probably just nasty anyway. My only concern is how some religions feel they have the right to talk about how non members chose to live.

I am not sure that it true because although many people in Ireland do not consider themselves religious or even believers.
Many were once and follow those frameworks and 'guidelines' still subconsciously at least.

I think the void religion has left though is mental health issues and the like.
People used to receive some solace in prayer years ago, when it was the done thing.
Now people have to be told to talk and interact with each other - they have to be reminded to think of others.
When religion was the in thing it filled this void.

Drumpot

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

A church has laid the framework for those laws though

You are telling me if there was no laws against the use of coal/drinking driving/phone use in the car your behaviour would not have changed?

Those things above maybe minor in the greater scheme of things, but they are all about bettering society making it a safer and better place.
It is a similar philosophy to many religions - it still permeates today whether you realise it or not.

I think people over play their own self will and can’t actually comprehend what happens in a world without religion.

Firstly the presumption is that things wilL be better , this is usually based on the misguided idea that religion causes war. Do people think that the kind of people manipulating religion to justify wars won’t just move to politics or some other thing (finance) to get their wars? Will paedophiles just stop being what they are because there is no religion or will they just find another profession/way of exploiting kids?

Secondly , People like to think “well I’m a good person so like I wil pass that onto my family” but they don’t think it through. I don’t know what my grandparents valued so why do People think their own values Won’t be diluted over time? I bet adverts on TV will shape the values of children in 50 years then any person in here who thinks as a grand parent their values will hold more weight.

Thirdly we are all manipulated and moulded by our surroundings. Religion is only one part of our lives. I’d say money, consumerism and politics mould peoples values more then anything. So many people have such a weak insight into what motivates them. It’s not you because individuals don’t really exist. The most unique individuals are those who are probably social outcasts and off the grid. The rest of us are products of consumerism, with junk values , no original thoughts and ego that suppress’s any meaningful self reflection.

Yester

I think we are like bees. Every once in a while we swarm and destroy everything and start again.

corks finest

Yes 100, having lost 2 kids and parents and 4 siblings in the last 13 years without God in my life I wouldn't be here,know it's personal but I'll ALWAYS big up my God

Zorya

corks finest wrote: »

Yes 100, having lost 2 kids and parents and 4 siblings in the last 13 years without God in my life I wouldn't be here,know it's personal but I'll ALWAYS big up my God

That is unimaginable suffering. My sincere condolences to you.

gormdubhgorm

Drumpot wrote: »

I think people over play their own self will and can’t actually comprehend what happens in a world without religion.

Firstly the presumption is that things wilL be better , this is usually based on the misguided idea that religion causes war. Do people think that the kind of people manipulating religion to justify wars won’t just move to politics or some other thing (finance) to get their wars? Will paedophiles just stop being what they are because there is no religion or will they just find another profession/way of exploiting kids?

Secondly , People like to think “well I’m a good person so like I wil pass that onto my family” but they don’t think it through. I don’t know what my grandparents valued so why do People think their own values Won’t be diluted over time? I bet adverts on TV will shape the values of children in 50 years then any person in here who thinks as a grand parent their values will hold more weight.

Thirdly we are all manipulated and moulded by our surroundings. Religion is only one part of our lives. I’d say money, consumerism and politics mould peoples values more then anything. So many people have such a weak insight into what motivates them. It’s not you because individuals don’t really exist. The most unique individuals are those who are probably social outcasts and off the grid. The rest of us are products of consumerism, with junk values , no original thoughts and ego that suppress’s any meaningful self reflection.

Very well put.
Any priests on boards.ie should be taking note of this would make a great homily. I would say they would couch the pedophile bit in more obscure language though!

cj maxx

One thing I've learned from bitter experience is people are feral. Religion started, imo , as a way to to bring some order to that chaos coupled with experience and fortuitous superstition.
Most religions have basic tenets , don't kill each other.
Don't ride another mans woman because that leads to killings.
Don't eat certain foods as they they will harm or kill you.
If you don't follow these rules the Alpha male will kill you.
Then bit by bit things where added on. Then the feral instinct surfaced again.
Some natural calamity happened and it was because you broke the rules.
And it grew and grew and grew wings.
So , no , I dont believe in a God , though I agree with generally not killing each other.

Drumpot

corks finest wrote: »

Yes 100, having lost 2 kids and parents and 4 siblings in the last 13 years without God in my life I wouldn't be here,know it's personal but I'll ALWAYS big up my God

That’s horrible , I am so sorry for your losses.

But it actually shines a light on another part of religion. The comfort it can bring and how can help heal a family. Those who detest religion will never really discuss this and will try to turn it around.

Yeh, an atheist can console themselves with money , medication or some other value that helps them get over a bereavement but being able to self sooth with god and or talking to loved Ones is superb self healing. What harm are you doing to atheists? None, but they will push wars and all the negative stuff to the front of their crusade. It’s ironic how angry people can get against religion when in my experience it’s generally been a positive/neutral in most peoples lives. Of course there are horror stories but there’s bad experiences in everything in life.

It’s funny cause I do visit my dads grave and do talk to him sometimes. I really miss him but I don’t get caught up worrying about if he’s listening or in heaven. I just find it cathartic.

friendlyfun

Don't think the decline in religious organisation is exactly great. Ireland seems to becoming more individualistic, more materialistic, egoism is rife with social media.

The decline of religion seems to be leaving a large void that seems difficult to replace.

gormdubhgorm

Even me as non-believer appreciate the role the religious philosophers have taken, and how the views on natural law have impacted on jurisprudence, society and legal systems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_law#American_jurisprudence

Zorya

Drumpot wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

Yes 100, having lost 2 kids and parents and 4 siblings in the last 13 years without God in my life I wouldn't be here,know it's personal but I'll ALWAYS big up my God

That’s horrible , I am so sorry for your losses.

But it actually shines a light on another part of religion. The comfort it can bring and how can help heal a family. Those who detest religion will never really discuss this and will try to turn it around.

Yeh, an atheist can console themselves with money , medication or some other value that helps them get over a bereavement but being able to self sooth with god and or talking to loved Ones is superb self healing. What harm are you doing to atheists? None, but they will push wars and all the negative stuff to the front of their crusade.

It’s funny cause I do visit my dads grave and do talk to him sometimes. I really miss him but I don’t get caught up worrying about if he’s listening or in heaven. I just find it cathartic.

The people who yak about the cruelty of religions are really talking about the cruelty of humans and the cruelty of political machinations. Politics take over all religions, they become power structures. I always saw the church as a political institution as a child and found it hollow, left at 16. It is the same politics in Lamaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, everything, people sucking at power. The exoteric manipulation of crowds and creeds. But there are great thinkers and great thought to be found since forever in the esoteric or inner parts - without which we would be a lesser species.

Cee-Jay-Cee

realitykeeper wrote: »

I know there is a God and an after life.

No you don’t. No one on this earth knows. You, like millions of others believe there is a God and afterlife but you don’t know it for a fact. No one has ever provided a scintilla of proof in any form that God exists. You have faith, you don’t have proof.

kildare lad wrote: »

My brother is real religious and I asked him what to people do all day in heaven , he replied "you pray and sing all day " , I told him I'd rather go to hell

I think your brother might be a little bit ‘special’

gormdubhgorm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

No you don’t. No one on this earth knows. You, like millions of others believe there is a God and afterlife but you don’t know it for a fact. No one has ever provided a scintilla of proof in any form that God exists. You have faith, you don’t have proof.

Exactly the 'articles of faith' would be known as 'the articles of beyond any doubt whatsoever' otherwise.
Not nearly as catchy!

stratowide

realitykeeper wrote: »

I know there is a God and an after life. I was watching a movie some time back and it it a leftist Portuguese intellectual was saying there is no after life and if there were, the eternity of it would be absolute hell. This is presumptuous. It exhibits a limited imagination. Even in this life, eternity is all around us in the form of time and space. God, who knows ever hair on every head, is our architect and as such the eternity which awaits the righteous is tailor made.

Your username would seem to contradict this.

Drumpot

friendlyfun wrote: »

Don't think the decline in religious organisation is exactly great. Ireland seems to becoming more individualistic, more materialistic, egoism is rife with social media.

The decline of religion seems to be leaving a large void that seems difficult to replace.

If a person who wants the end of religion hasn’t asked themselves “what will we lose with the end of religion” they haven’t really thought it through at all. This is such a mob pitchfork mentality, wipe something out without learning anything.

There are so many good practices in religion that will be lost and replaced with individualistic selfish principles. Consumerism is one thing filling the void. Another one is Online media bullsh*t platforms like Facebook and Instagram that are giving people alternative ways of reaching their congregations and in doing so isolating themselves more from reality.

4068ac1elhodqr

Chances are favourable, that there is indeed a (sky) God, the only argument against it is 'transportation' (as we understand it).
God is nearly always described as coming down from the sky, or speaking to Moses from above/the sky (other worldly), even Mary was came down upon in a 'visitation'.

How many planets in the universe can support life? A. 60,000,000,0000
What are the chances they are more god-like (more evolved than us?) Maybe 50:50 (for the sake of argument).

Odds of a existance of a God: 1 / 30,000,0000,000.
Odds of winning Euromills: 139,838,160 / 1

Note the position of the /1.