oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

Eric Cartman

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Absolutely, if they made a serious effort at education and submitted work references, I'd have no issue whatsoever.

“And submitted work references” , theres your get out clause. Lets be honest here , very very few people in Ireland will take a chance on a traveller precisely because if their belief system, its not an education thing or a ‘if they tried’ , youd be perpetually afraid of what kind of scam or robbing they were pulling and also how your customers would react and even if they were grand, their dodgy cousins might talk them into telling where the safe is / where the keys to the vans are etc... .

Boggles

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Instead Oughterard had hundreds of people forced on them with zero consultation.

No they didn't.

AFAIK no decision has been yet.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

A small number of families in each town spread out across the country, with help and assistance from local communities and volunteers. That is the way to go. There are tens of thousands of vacant houses across the country that should be CPO's for this.

Logistical nightmare I would imagine.

super_furry

Imagine though. Having survived through war and famine, having escaped repressive regimes, having braved the seas in a dinghy for the chance to give yourself and your family a better life, you’re sent to Oughterard.

You’d head back and take your chances.

Ulysses Gaze

super_furry wrote: »

Imagine though. Having survived through war and famine, having escaped repressive regimes, having braved the seas in a dinghy for the chance to give yourself and your family a better life, you’re sent to Oughterard.

You’d head back and take your chances.

Could be worse.

Could be Offaly or Leitrim...

Galwayguy35

The Irish Times are nearly creaming themselves over this, 2 articles a day have appeared about it since the whole thing started.

And the comments section is full of people from Dun Laoghaire and other wealthy areas calling the people from Oughterard racists.

WB Yokes

super_furry wrote: »

Imagine though. Having survived through war and famine, having escaped repressive regimes, having braved the seas in a dinghy for the chance to give yourself and your family a better life, you’re sent to Oughterard.

You’d head back and take your chances.

Can we swap you for a family of migrants? Fair trade.

super_furry

WB Yokes wrote: »

Can we swap you for a family of migrants? Fair trade.

Sure. Parcel me up and I'm away.

kildare lad

The only reason Africans and middle eastern people come here is for our benefits. If they didn't give out free housing and were paid to have babies they wouldn't come here . There's been to many problems in mainland Europe taking in to many refugees , not to mention it's already happening here .i.e tyrellstown and ballbrigan. If the bleeding hearts want refugees let them out them up in their own houses , I'm sure they can sort a spare room out.

ToBeFrank123

alastair wrote: »

Ehh, the ‘Other’ is pretty clear - the person claiming Travellers are not marginalised. Thanks for playing.

Let me see.
You have a section of society that point blank refuse to engage with the education system once they reach teenage years. Refuse housing unless it comes with bells and whistle and/or stables for the horses. Refuse to make the same effort as the rest of us to get a bare minimum of education which is the basic stepping stone to a job.
And point blank refuse to be considered of Irish ethnicity and have demanded not to be called Irish.

And I'm to blame for marginalisaing them?

Like many people here and elsewhere I've said repeatedly Travellers should be given every assistance to integrate, get a good education and find jobs.

And at every turn people like you defend their self imposed marginalisation.

So who's at fault here?

The person encouraging integration? Or the person or persons encouraging marginalisation?

Traveller marginalisation is almost entirely self imposed. Without bothering with an education, you are already setting yourself up for a fall, whether you are traveller or not.

PowerToWait

kildare lad wrote: »

The only reason Africans and middle eastern people come here is for our benefits. If they didn't give out free housing and were paid to have babies they wouldn't come here . There's been to many problems in mainland Europe taking in to many refugees , not to mention it's already happening here .i.e tyrellstown and ballbrigan. If the bleeding hearts want refugees let them out them up in their own houses , I'm sure they can sort a spare room out.

This post is clearly blatantly racist. But I'm sure you'll say it's just straight talking, telling it like it is.

Or maybe you'd be decent enough to admit to the blatant racist tone? I'd have much more respect for that level of 'straight talking'.

The argument that people who disagree with racists should accommodate refugees in their own homes is also, unsurprisingly, just fcuking stupid.

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

No they didn't.

AFAIK no decision has been yet.

Well considering how the matter was handled in Lisdoonvarna and it's not the only such instance, I'd be more than dubious of the states reps in the region and their "consultation" process.

Me. Previously wrote: »

Ah yes, Lisdoonvarna. Is this the same Lisdoonvarna where the locals overwhelmingly voted against the move of such numbers? The same Lisdoonvarna where said locals were given assurances by the authorities and the owner of the hotel that their wishes would be respected? The same Lisdoonvarna where the locals wishes were utterly ignored? Never mind that the hotel owner received 1.24 million euro for his trouble. The same Marcus White who was charged and convicted for employing fourteen non native migrant workers without work permits. That Lisdoonvarna?

ToBeFrank123

Boggles wrote: »

No they didn't.

Lie

AFAIK no decision has been yet.

Lie - they've already started renovations.

Logistical nightmare I would imagine.

Nope - pretty easily done and far cheaper than employing full time security staff and full time workers. Its DPCs that are the real nightmare cost and logistics wise with zero benefit to the migrant or community.

Boggles

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Lie

Really? How do you define a lie.

Have you a link to a picture of the 200 asylum seekers you claimed are all ready there.

Is that a lie?

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Lie - they've already started renovations.

Which they did in other places, but no DP ended up there.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope - pretty easily done and far cheaper than employing full time security staff and full time workers. Its DPCs that are the real nightmare cost and logistics wise with zero benefit to the migrant or community.

So you have a costed analysis to house them all scattered along communities.

Ulysses Gaze

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The Irish Times are nearly creaming themselves over this, 2 articles a day have appeared about it since the whole thing started.

And the comments section is full of people from Dun Laoghaire and other wealthy areas calling the people from Oughterard racists.

Such a pity the Tara Towers hotel is no longer around.

It would have made an excellent DP center right in the heart of D4. Close to Blackrock and the Merrion Road.

Wibbs

PowerToWait wrote: »

This post is clearly blatantly racist. But I'm sure you'll say it's just straight talking, telling it like it is.

Or maybe you'd be decent enough to admit to the blatant racist tone? I'd have much more respect for that level of 'straight talking'.

The argument that people who disagree with racists should accommodate refugees in their own homes is also, unsurprisingly, just fcuking stupid.

It's equally "fcuking stupid" to counter everything that doesn't agree with your position as "racist". It's also a typical tactic to try and shut down any debate. Though TBH I care not a jot any more if I hear it aimed at me.

Now if you have an oul look at the stats of those refused asylum sub Saharan African residents have extremely high rejection rates. Over 90%. Are the folks in the relevant depts also all racists? Quite a few Albanians and Georgians have tried to make their way here and they're also nearly all rejected. Must be cos they is Black.

Black Albanian folks. Earlier.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

Well considering how the matter was handled in Lisdoonvarna and it's not the only such instance, I'd be more than dubious of the states reps in the region and their "consultation" process.

You have a right to be dubious.

As you brought up Lisdoonvarna, by the accounts I've heard the DP center there is a roaring success with the local community, there was no objections to extend it recently.

Snow Garden

super_furry wrote: »

Imagine though. Having survived through war and famine, having escaped repressive regimes, having braved the seas in a dinghy for the chance to give yourself and your family a better life, you’re sent to Oughterard.

You’d head back and take your chances.

Oughterard is actually a lovely spot. They have a river there that is like something from the movie 'A River Runs Through It'. It's a shallow gravel bottomed river and during the summer months you can see the fins of the trout and salmon feeding. They have a waterfall where you stand on a small bridge and see salmon jump. Beautiful trees line the river for miles. Very peaceful and serene. Well worth a visit.

ToBeFrank123

Only 2 Direct Provision centres in Dublin.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/five-direct-provision-centres-oversubscribed-with-others-almost-full-1.3717684

That really says it all and frames the debate nicely.

Dublin centric media and politicians telling everyone else to suck it up but no interest in accommodating DPCs themselves.

Achebe

If they put direct provision centres in Dublin, people wpuld complain that they were contributing to the housing crisis in the capital.

WB Yokes

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Only 2 Direct Provision centres in Dublin.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/five-direct-provision-centres-oversubscribed-with-others-almost-full-1.3717684

That really says it all and frames the debate nicely.

Dublin centric media and politicians telling everyone else to suck it up but no interest in accommodating DPCs themselves.

The one in Baleskin was raided not so long ago by Gardai investigating prostitution and drug dealing.

ToBeFrank123

Eric Cartman wrote: »

“And submitted work references” , theres your get out clause. Lets be honest here , very very few people in Ireland will take a chance on a traveller precisely because if their belief system, its not an education thing or a ‘if they tried’ , youd be perpetually afraid of what kind of scam or robbing they were pulling and also how your customers would react and even if they were grand, their dodgy cousins might talk them into telling where the safe is / where the keys to the vans are etc... .

This is how you get a career:

1. Get a relatively good education, at least to Junior Cert.
2. Get a summer job - there are thousands of businesses only too willing to give any law abiding member of society a job
3. Show you are punctual and willing to work an 8 hour day or 40 hour week
4. Keep working and build up a CV

Here's how not to get a career:
1. Leave school at 12 or 13 even though there's plenty of opportunities to continue on - your chances of a decent career, Traveller or not, fall of a cliff at this point.

We know there's a cultural resistance to secondary education among the traveller community which has nothing to do with society imposed marginalisation. If Travellers studied all the way to Leaving Cert and still didn't find regular employment, then that is something different. But they are not doing that.

There are exceptions of course where Travellers have attained very good education and/or very good careers, and good luck to them. They've proved there's plenty of opportunity for anyone who wants to study and work hard.

The_Kew_Tour

Achebe wrote: »

If they put direct provision centres in Dublin, people wpuld complain that they were contributing to the housing crisis in the capital.

Where do you live? If you dont mind me asking?

ToBeFrank123

Achebe wrote: »

If they put direct provision centres in Dublin, people wpuld complain that they were contributing to the housing crisis in the capital.

Genuinely confused why they would say that. DPCs are just not suitable as long term accommodation or as family accommodation. They are not competing with normal housing.

Nope, its clear Dublin is massively under represented when it comes to DPCs. Its almost like Dublin doesn't want them?

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

You have a right to be dubious.

As you brought up Lisdoonvarna, by the accounts I've heard the DP center there is a roaring success with the local community, there was no objections to extend it recently.

The accounts I've heard have been by local FG councillors, including the one who pushed it through against the overwhelming nay vote by the local community. But let's say it's all sunshine and roses, so you're OK with hiding the process from locals, when the locals found out and voted against said centre and they were given assurances that they would be listened to and then weren't? You're OK with that kind of society eh? Good to know.

Wibbling wonder

I'm living in Oughterard and can only comment for myself and first hand from my friends all of whom are opposed to the DP centre being set up here.

We have had no consultation or input into a potential 20% increase in the village's population. Dumping up to 250 people just outside the village where both the primary and secondary schools are close to if not at capacity, we have 1 GP currently who's list is full, the dentist is also at capacity and we have an intercom for a police station most of the time where if you are lucky and a squad car is available might get a rapid response an hour or so after your call. The bus service is very irregular with only a handful of buses going into and out of Galway.

And before we are painted with the racist card, Oughterard has welcomed many different nationalities to the village. Many of the people protesting were foreign nationals who like us, disagree with a broken system. Recently, Galway county council had a planning application for 13 social and affordable houses turned down for a number of reasons one of which was distance from services/infrastructure and it is closer to the village than the Gateway - go figure.

As the people here have said, we are fully prepared to welcome a relatively small number (undefined I acknowledge) of people coming to seek a better life and be given the opportunity to integrate as many others have done. The current system of clandestine tendering and consultation with the community to commence once contracts are signed is nuts!

topper75

Albanian mafia is particularly big on both drugs and prostitution.
Their record to date in Europe is quite astounding in terms of percentage of the drugs/vice/traffic markets, and that is all achieved BEFORE their entry to EU and the associated free movement it would afford these gangs.
They would love to have a bigger say in Ireland. Until free movement, they will go with the asylum system abuse.
There is no regaining control once they are in - it is not a reversible process.

alastair

Wibbs wrote: »

It's equally "fcuking stupid" to counter everything that doesn't agree with your position as "racist". It's also a typical tactic to try and shut down any debate. Though TBH I care not a jot any more if I hear it aimed at me.

Now if you have an oul look at the stats of those refused asylum sub Saharan African residents have extremely high rejection rates. Over 90%. Are the folks in the relevant depts also all racists? Quite a few Albanians and Georgians have tried to make their way here and they're also nearly all rejected. Must be cos they is Black.

Last I noticed Albania was in neither Africa nor the Middle East - which was what the poster referred to. So spare the red herring. Plenty of asylum seekers have their claim rejected, but they’re also not getting free gaffs given to them and all the other guff your ‘not racist’ pal was spouting. They get stuck in DP for the duration and a princely €21 a week for necessities. Any credible ‘spongers’ would make their way to one of the states with more generous welfare provision and better opportunities to work while seeking asylum.

alastair

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Genuinely confused why they would say that. DPCs are just not suitable as long term accommodation or as family accommodation. They are not competing with normal housing.

Nope, its clear Dublin is massively under represented when it comes to DPCs. Its almost like Dublin doesn't want them?

There’s loads of DPC’s in Dublin.

ToBeFrank123

alastair wrote: »

Last I noticed Albania was in neither Africa nor the Middle East - which was what the poster referred to. So spare the red herring. Plenty of asylum seekers have their claim rejected, but they’re also not getting free gaffs given to them and all the other guff your ‘not racist’ pal was spouting. They get stuck in DP for the duration and a princely €21 a week for necessities. Any credible ‘spongers’ would make their way to one of the states with more generous welfare provision and better opportunities to work while seeking asylum.

There's really no defending what's been done to the people of Oughterard, bringing in 250 people who may or may not be valid asylum seekers, and in all likelihood, 90% are not.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

The accounts I've heard have been by local FG councillors, including the one who pushed it through against the overwhelming nay vote by the local community. But let's say it's all sunshine and roses, so you're OK with hiding the process from locals, when the locals found out and voted against said centre and they were given assurances that they would be listened to and then weren't? You're OK with that kind of society eh? Good to know.

Mental leap there. Brown bag stuff. Dial back the hyperbole lad.

Merely telling you what I heard from locals in the area.