oughterard people - see OP for Mod warning 29/09/19

Jimmy Garlic

WB Yokes wrote: »

Fancies himself as a bit of a hardman this Loughnane fella

https://mobile.twitter.com/hermannkelly/status/1173215256576966656

He's there ten years. That says it all. "My campus":rolleyes:

Danzy

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

He's there ten years. That says it all. "My campus":rolleyes:

He acts like a little God, and is treated like one by his cult followers.

His family are well to do so he can be indulged in this.

Boggles

Will the hotel catch fire a couple of times "mysteriously" I wonder?

Achebe

Boggles wrote: »

Will the hotel catch fire a couple of times "mysteriously" I wonder?

I think a lot of people on boards would cum in their pants if they heard that news.

73bc61lyohr0mu

Achebe wrote: »

I think a lot of people on boards would cum in their pants if they heard that news.

Yeah both hard right and hard left poster's. Both despise Direct Provision as much as each other.

ToBeFrank123

Achebe wrote: »

Travellers, people of colour, the LGBt community.

None of these are marginalised in modern Irish society, unless they specifically choose to be so, and some do. Its easier for one group in particular to play the marginalised card than get a proper education and a job. We are almost at full employment, its never been easier to find a job, with a basic education.

We have moved on hugely as a society, where people from all backgrounds are welcome to participate in society, provided they make a genuine attempt to do so.

Sitting on the sidelines, expecting everyone else to fund your lifestyle or pick up the tab is not participating in society.

Anyways, sticking 200 migrants in a hotel/open prison is doing nothing to integrate them properly. Nor is imposing 200 or more on a small town which clearly does not have the resources to cope.

Boggles

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

None of these are marginalised in modern Irish society,

Really, you would gladly hire a member of the travelling community?

TheTheory

The problem i have with all of this is the argument that the locals had at the beginning has changed and they are now using the "Inhumane" card to get this stopped.
At the town meeting last week there was a lot of very crude, touching on racist, remarks made. People at the meeting shouting about driving the english out before and crap like that. Now when it suits, the tone has changed to that of compassion for the asylum seekers.
It is as basic as this. The people of Oughterard are afraid of what is coming, simply because they dont know what is coming. If the government was open and communicated with the public about numbers and age mix etc.. i think a more rational discussion could be had.
This is becoming a divisive subject in the town now because people there are trying to force their opinions on others who might not necessarily believe what they do.
Personally i believe everyone has the right to a better life, and if thats in my village then all the better.

WB Yokes

TheTheory wrote: »

The problem i have with all of this is the argument that the locals had at the beginning has changed and they are now using the "Inhumane" card to get this stopped.
At the town meeting last week there was a lot of very crude, touching on racist, remarks made. People at the meeting shouting about driving the english out before and crap like that. Now when it suits, the tone has changed to that of compassion for the asylum seekers.
It is as basic as this. The people of Oughterard are afraid of what is coming, simply because they dont know what is coming. If the government was open and communicated with the public about numbers and age mix etc.. i think a more rational discussion could be had.
This is becoming a divisive subject in the town now because people there are trying to force their opinions on others who might not necessarily believe what they do.
Personally i believe everyone has the right to a better life, and if thats in my village then all the better.

A few left wing crusties showed up and start handing placards to everyone and the media gladly lapped it up and changed the narrative.

Danzy

TheTheory wrote: »

The problem i have with all of this is the argument that the locals had at the beginning has changed and they are now using the "Inhumane" card to get this stopped.
At the town meeting last week there was a lot of very crude, touching on racist, remarks made. People at the meeting shouting about driving the english out before and crap like that. Now when it suits, the tone has changed to that of compassion for the asylum seekers.
It is as basic as this. The people of Oughterard are afraid of what is coming, simply because they dont know what is coming. If the government was open and communicated with the public about numbers and age mix etc.. i think a more rational discussion could be had.
This is becoming a divisive subject in the town now because people there are trying to force their opinions on others who might not necessarily believe what they do.
Personally i believe everyone has the right to a better life, and if thats in my village then all the better.

Look at the self declared anti racism activists, think a rational argument is possible with them.


They can call it solidarity all they like but it never affects them or their corporate allies.

Zorya

Boggles wrote: »

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

None of these are marginalised in modern Irish society,

Really, you would gladly hire a member of the travelling community?

It would be more pertinent to ask if you would?

Boggles

Zorya wrote: »

It would be more pertinent to ask if you would?

It wouldn't be more pertinent at all since I didn't declare they were not "marginalized" or the concept of marginalization in modern Ireland does not exist.

The question was appropriate and aimed at the more pertinent person.

Zorya

Boggles wrote: »

Zorya wrote: »

It would be more pertinent to ask if you would?

It wouldn't be pertinent at all since I didn't declare they were not "marginalized" or the concept of marginalization in modern Ireland does not exist.

It is pertinent. They would not be marginalised if you would employ them. You. Not some reprehensible "other". Thats why I am asking YOU.

TeaBagMania

TheTheory wrote: »

It is as basic as this. The people of Oughterard are afraid of what is coming, simply because they dont know what is coming.

Or maybe they DO know what is coming and don't want it in their community

i.e. Balbriggan, London, Sweden, Germany, France, take your pick

Cordell

They are completely entitled to protest it regardless of their reasons, including racism if they feel it. If a lad living in Wicklow can stop Apple building a datacenter in Athenry then for sure people living in a town are entitled to stop something being built in their town. So, them being racist is not an argument. Even if they are.

ToBeFrank123

Boggles wrote: »

Really, you would gladly hire a member of the travelling community?

Absolutely, if they made a serious effort at education and submitted work references, I'd have no issue whatsoever.

ToBeFrank123

Boggles wrote: »

It wouldn't be more pertinent at all since I didn't declare they were not "marginalized" or the concept of marginalization in modern Ireland does not exist.

The question was appropriate and aimed at the more pertinent person.

You got your answer.

Now its just as pertinent for you to answer the same question.

alastair

Zorya wrote: »

It is pertinent. They would not be marginalised if you would employ them. You. Not some reprehensible "other". Thats why I am asking YOU.

Ehh, the ‘Other’ is pretty clear - the person claiming Travellers are not marginalised. Thanks for playing.

Boggles

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Absolutely, if they made a serious effort at education and submitted work references, I'd have no issue whatsoever.

But they are some of the most under educated and under employed people in the country.

So by "absolutely" you mean no not really, therefore they are marginalized.

You see my point?

Boggles

Zorya wrote: »

It is pertinent. They would not be marginalised if you would employ them. You. Not some reprehensible "other". Thats why I am asking YOU.

I suggest you take 5 and read the posts again.

begsbyOnaTrain

mynamejeff wrote: »

the most noticeable thing is that they are almost exclusively young males , 18 to 30

almost no older people kids or females , why is that , you would have though that they would be the ones who would need to flee

I've been assured that this is because the men go and scout the way as the journey might be dangerous.

Now you might be asking yourself just how dangerous the homeland can be if the women and children can wait around for years while the men arse about in Ireland. Further you may be wondering how is it safer for women and children to do these epic journeys on their own, years and years after the men. You may even wonder what proof do we have that these men are from where they claim, and is the whole spiel bs.

FYI asking any of these questions in public will lead to a very bad time for you.

ToBeFrank123

Boggles wrote: »

But they are some of the most under educated and under employed people in the country.

So by "absolutely" you mean no not really, therefore they are marginalized.

You see my point?

Wow...and why are they under educated? Might be something to do with a cultural resistance to education?

There's nothing stopping traveller children attaining a good education up to and beyond Leaving Cert.

The fact is most choose not to, or are pressured not to from within their own community.

To try to pin the blame for that on larger society is laughable. The opportunities are there for them, but they choose not to avail of them. Rather than sit the leaving cert, most choose a big fat gypsy wedding at the age of 18 or 19.

The rest of us meanwhile had to study, get up early and work hard in jobs to make a living for ourselves and our families.

Boggles

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There's nothing stopping traveller children attaining a good education up to and beyond Leaving Cert.

Nothing stopping children from making their own decisions, really?

Listen lad, your statement that marginalization is an alien concept in modern Ireland or any modern country for that matter is pretty daft.

Just admit and move on.

ToBeFrank123

Boggles wrote: »

Nothing stopping children from making their own decisions, really?

Listen lad, your statement that marginalization is an alien concept in modern Ireland or any modern country for that matter is pretty daft.

Just admit and move on.

I didn't say its an alien concept.

The migrants in Oughterard are marginalised - put in an open prison virtually in the middle or nowhere and next store to a small village who don't have the resources to deal with them.

Many communities outside of Dublin are marginalised economically by the Dublin centric elite which is led currently by FG.

But at least one of the examples you selected have largely chosen to be marginalised, that's the point I was making. They have chosen to stay outside of society, chosen to remain outside the education system and chosen to remain outside the workplace. And because of these choices they've been forced to look in many cases to "alternative sources of income".

They can't afford to go to school I'm sure you will say. Yet they can afford to have teenage weddings costing tens of thousands.

Boggles

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I didn't say its an alien concept.

Ah you did to be fair.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

We have moved on hugely as a society, where people from all backgrounds are welcome to participate in society, provided they make a genuine attempt to do so.

I'd love to see you explain that to someone in a wheelchair.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The migrants in Oughterard are marginalised - put in an open prison virtually in the middle or nowhere and next store to a small village who don't have the resources to deal with them.

Calm down with the hyperbole, it's 16 miles from Galway City.

Anyway what's your alternative?

ToBeFrank123

Boggles wrote: »

Ah you did to be fair.



I'd love to see you explain that to someone in a wheelchair.



Calm down with the hyperbole, it's 16 miles from Galway City.

Anyway what's your alternative?

OK this is going nowhere. Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Boggles

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

OK this is going nowhere. Lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I'm not disagreeing with you fully.

I am of the opinion DP centers are not ideal and the length of time people have spent in them in the past is an absolute scandal (has been improved drastically of late TBF).

But what is your alternative or an alternative?

I mean one thing it does bring to an area is jobs, which these types of villages are always crying out for.

Galwayguy35

Achebe wrote: »

Joe Loughnane is a decent and principled anti-racism activist. I had the pleasure of working alongside him for many years, and he has done incalculable good for the people of Galway.

Really?

What has he done for us?

ToBeFrank123

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you fully.

I am of the opinion DP centers are not ideal and the length of time people have spent in them in the past is an absolute scandal (has been improved drastically of late TBF).

But what is your alternative or an alternative?

I mean one thing it does bring to an area is jobs, which these types of villages are always crying out for.

A simple look at my posting history would tell you my alternative proposals.

A town should be consulted first. They should be asked what they think they can cope with. You'd be hugely surprised with the positive response to this. Most towns would gladly help a small number of families and help them integrate properly.

Instead Oughterard had hundreds of people forced on them with zero consultation. They don't know who these people are or where they came from. They could be genuine asylum seekers, they could not be. They don't know the impact on schools and medical centres. They've been left in an information limbo.

This is not the way to handle migrants or local communities. Its actually a shocking way to deal with them.

A small number of families in each town spread out across the country, with help and assistance from local communities and volunteers. That is the way to go. There are tens of thousands of vacant houses across the country that should be CPO's for this.

PowerToWait

fisgon wrote: »

There are 34 direct provision locations all over the country, in all kinds of cities and towns, liberal and not.

The reason that you don't hear anything about them is that there are minimal problems caused by the residents of these centres - they go about their daily lives, don't bother the locals, and certainly don't destroy the fabric of society, which is what some people - and Noel Grealish - are claiming.

Spot on. I worked in one of these for over 2 years. During this time I came to know almost all of the residents fairly well. They weren't all charming and there were definitely a few chancers / spoofers but the majority were genuine in my opinion.

They caused zero trouble in the wider community despite being there for years with no legal right to work and essentially 'nothing to do'.

A few did manage to get themselves cash jobs in building or cleaning. For which their Irish employers had no qualms about paying them an absolute pittance, thoroughly exploiting their situation.