Current affairs in Sweden

Timberrrrrrrr

biko wrote: »

I understand that your feeling are somehow hurt.

But as little backup I have for that to be true, just as little backup do you have for it not to be true.
Let's both use statistics and facts henceforth.

If you make a claim is the onus not on you to back that claim up with evidence?

Woodenfloor

Her name is Ebba Akerlund

biko

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you make a claim is the onus not on you to back that claim up with evidence?

Yes, so far I only have sources to say up to 50% of those seeking asylum register different personal data with different authorities.

That is not "all", the trigger word for several of the last posters - but I suppose it can qualify for "many" and considering we don't know if this is everyone it can possibly be "most"

Do you have numbers to say these numbers are less, for Sweden?

biko

biko wrote: »

Story now picked up by mainstreamers once the alternatives have broken the story last week
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/11/23/iraqs-defence-minister-accused-benefit-fraud-sweden

And now by WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/sweden-opens-investigations-into-iraqs-defense-minister-11574778204?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1

Sweden is investigating Iraq’s defense minister for suspected crimes against humanity as well as benefits fraud related to his time as a refugee in the Scandinavian country, Swedish prosecutors and police said.

A spokeswoman for the prosecutor, who announced the human-rights probe on Monday, declined to give any detail about the allegations against Najah Shimmari, including whether they related to his role as a general under Saddam Hussein or his time as defense minister in the current government

biko

And if you think this was a first for Sweden to harbour a war criminal, of course it's not..

A Swedish court convicted a 61-year-old man on Monday of taking part in the 1994 genocide in Rwanda and sentenced him to life in prison. The case was noteworthy for being part of a transnational effort to hold people accountable for crimes against humanity, no matter where those crimes occurred.

The Stockholm District Court found that the man, Claver Berinkindi, a Rwandan who obtained Swedish citizenship in 2012, had participated in five massacres between April 18 and May 31, 1994.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/world/europe/sweden-rwanda-claver-berinkindi.html

Serbian prosecutors suspect a Swedish man of involvement in a massacre in Kosovo in 1999, according to office of the war crimes prosecutor in Belgrade.
The man is reported to live in a town in central Sweden.
He is a Swedish citizen and originates from Kosovo.

https://www.thelocal.se/20131117/swede-suspected-of-kosovo-war-crimes
Sweden, modern day Argentina..

Timberrrrrrrr

biko wrote: »

Yes, so far I only have sources to say up to 50% of those seeking asylum register different personal data with different authorities.

May we see these sources?

That is not "all", the trigger word for several of the last posters - but I suppose it can qualify for "many" and considering we don't know if this is everyone it can possibly be "most"

Do you have numbers to say these numbers are less, for Sweden?

So you're basically guessing and throwing it out there to further your agenda?

Richard Hillman

This is unreal

https://twitter.com/PeterSweden7/status/1199791967204466688?s=19

chuchuchu

Richard Hillman wrote: »

This is unreal

https://twitter.com/PeterSweden7/status/1199791967204466688?s=19

Jez the guy only got 4 months for raping a woman and then goes on to murder! He should of been deported right away. And I wonder if the media there are reporting on that story. I imagine it wouldnt go along well with the propaganda they having been spewing out for years. I know a similar story happened in Ireland where a woman was raped by a migrant but he could not be deported in the end due to EU law. So he continued to stay in Ireland, the government gave him a free house and free money every week. While the woman later killed herself as she did not feel safe going outside. Any way the media here were not interested in the story, coz ya they dont give a sh*t about the safety of the individual - they just care about furthering their liberal agenda.

Gynoid

I dont know about how other people feel but it is these regular stories of gang rape, often particularly brutal, often on young girls, that have most affected my opinion on immigration over the past 5 years or so.
Of course they do not represent the vast majority but they are indicative of an encultured mindset that is no longer European whereby women are deeply disrespected as chattels and second class citizens.
I would have been a bit of a bleeding heart long before that, an old school socialist before I really thought a lot about history and looked past the one line myth - " That was not really socialism.". Am still a bit foolishly soft in that I always expect the best of people in real life, but these truly ugly and regular rape stories have been like repeated hammer blows on any idealism I may once have espoused. They sicken me to the gut.

Wibbs

Gynoid wrote: »

Of course they do not represent the vast majority but they are indicative of an encultured mindset that is no longer European whereby women are deeply disrespected as chattels and second class citizens.

As you say it isn't the vast majority, but there seems to be cultural aspects that drive a larger minority than background and not just in Sweden. Sweden's sexual assault stats are often trotted out and just as often derided as biased because of different reporting approaches, but a similar trend is found in France(oh and this is from the Vice website, not some right wing rag and the original French study is linked). The salient bit is:

According to the study, the average age for Parisians rape suspects was 34, with 44 percent unemployed and 52 percent of them foreign nationals. Nearly half of the suspects were already known to the police, including nearly a quarter who were repeat sex offenders.

In 92.5 percent of the cases included in the study, the victims were women, with 40 percent of them under 25. Half of the adult victims were employed, and nearly half of all employed victims were "highly qualified and in managerial positions." Nearly a third of the victims were born outside of France.

Over half of rape suspects and nearly a third of victims. So both perpetrators and victims are overrepresented in the foreign national demographic. These are insane percentages.

Gynoid

Gynoid wrote: »

I dont know about how other people feel but it is these regular stories of gang rape, often particularly brutal, often on young girls, that have most affected my opinion on immigration over the past 5 years or so.
Of course they do not represent the vast majority but they are indicative of an encultured mindset that is no longer European whereby women are deeply disrespected as chattels and second class citizens.
I would have been a bit of a bleeding heart long before that, an old school socialist before I really thought a lot about history and looked past the one line myth - " That was not really socialism.". Am still a bit foolishly soft in that I always expect the best of people in real life, but these truly ugly and regular rape stories have been like repeated hammer blows on any idealism I may once have espoused. They sicken me to the gut.

So which immigrants do you have a problem with because of this?
Because it seems it's all immigrants?

wellwhynot

This is one of my biggest fears for my children’s future. You import men from Rape Capitals of world and what can you expect? Do the State not care about protecting it’s own citizens? Women once again thrown under the bus so politicians can virtue signal. None of these countries are at war. If the government really wanted to help why don’t they take women and children only as they are the ones most at risk in these countries. But that would never happen.

pjohnson

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

May we see these sources?



So you're basically guessing and throwing it out there to further your agenda?

The Noel Grealish approach. That would be popular with Biko and his ilk tbf.

biko

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

May we see these sources?

It's already in the thread, post 250

Another from Swedish government pages
https://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-lagar/dokument/interpellation/korrekta-personuppgifter-hos-myndigheter_H410469

Google translated:

According to the Swedish Tax Agency, upwards of 50 percent of those seeking asylum have registered different personal data with different authorities.

This means that the same person, by having multiple identities, can, for example, abuse our grant systems. The false personal data is in many cases used in criminal activities, according to the Swedish Tax Agency.

Slowyourrole

chuchuchu wrote: »

Jez the guy only got 4 months for raping a woman and then goes on to murder!

He got four months for live streaming it, not for rape.

Gynoid wrote: »

I dont know about how other people feel but it is these regular stories of gang rape, often particularly brutal, often on young girls, that have most affected my opinion on immigration over the past 5 years or so.

That's the point of them. The reality is that sexual violence against women, including ones with multiple attackers, is a common occurrence across Europe. Yet we are at a point now where you hear about foreigners raping a woman in Sweden before you'd hear about one in your own county.

Wibbs

Slowyourrole wrote: »

That's the point of them. The reality is that sexual violence against women, including ones with multiple attackers, is a common occurrence across Europe. Yet we are at a point now where you hear about foreigners raping a woman in Sweden before you'd hear about one in your own county.

Indeed, but you seem to have missed this French statistic with links to the original data posted earlier:

According to the study, the average age for Parisians rape suspects was 34, with 44 percent unemployed and 52 percent of them foreign nationals.

Half of those stats are foreign nationals(and nearly a third of victims). Does this mean foreign nationals are all rapists? Of course it doesn't, but it does show a very strong tendency for rapists to be more likely to be foreign nationals. But sure, nothing to see here.

Gynoid

bubblypop wrote: »

So which immigrants do you have a problem with because of this?
Because it seems it's all immigrants?

I find this kind of casual dismissal of valid concerns coupled with a subtle insult as to my good character to be beneath contempt.

Gynoid

Gynoid wrote: »

I find this kind of casual dismissal of valid concerns coupled with a subtle insult as to my good character to be beneath contempt.

It's a question, won't you answer

EmmetSpiceland

Slowyourrole wrote: »

He got four months for live streaming it, not for rape.

You’d have wonder if he’d been white would there have been a thread on here saying the sentence was too harsh.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

It's a question, won't you answer

Well my answer has always been: every country and culture has its own internal social issues, so why import more and different ones? I also take issue with the idea that Europe is somehow in need of "cultural improvement" because of "diversity" when vanishingly few of the same people clamouring for that would say Africa or Asia is in need of improvement by the addition of a large percentage of illegal European migrants.

As for "immigrants", that's a wide topic. There's a helluva difference between legal immigration and actual asylum seekers and illegal immigration and economic migrants that couldn't gain legal entry to Europe and Ireland. There are cultural differences within the communities who may seek entry too. EG Sikhs from Pakistan don't show up to nearly the same degree in crime and social problem statistics compared to Muslims from Pakistan.

WrenBoy

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

You’d have wonder if he’d been white would there have been a thread on here saying the sentence was too harsh.

If he was white he would have been locked up for years and rightly so, but having the jails full of recent immigrants is not a good look for their wonderful immigration policies so... 4 months.

Wibbs

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

You’d have wonder if he’d been white would there have been a thread on here saying the sentence was too harsh.

Live streaming a gang rape? Throw away the key regardless of his skin tone.

EmmetSpiceland

Wibbs wrote: »

Live streaming a gang rape? Throw away the key regardless of his skin tone.

It’s the right sentiment, W, but it’s not what I’d see here.

I mean, you hear of the prominent rape trails involving white Irish lads and then you hear all the talk of ‘how the woman acted’, ‘why did she delete her texts?’ or, even, ‘oh, you know how women are. She probably woke up and regretted what happened so decided to ‘cry rape’.

Now, when you hear of a rape involving a black lad and then there’s a vicious attack of condemnation with venom and bile before any details emerge or charges pressed.

The defence mounted for that creepy stalker on here was staggering. Could you see the same appetite for that if he’d been a Pakistani or Moroccan?

Wibbs

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

The defence mounted for that creepy stalker on here was staggering. Could you see the same appetite for that if he’d been a Pakistani or Moroccan?

Oh I agree E, 100%. That would most certainly be in play. Plus you'd have some being more defensive because of the same origins. I see it as just another issue with multiculturalism and one seen anywhere it's in play. We're an inherently tribal animal, regardless of our "tribe" or ethnicity or culture and that won't change any time soon either. I have some admiration for those hopeful folks who think it will, but it's a false premise and promise IMHO, as history, both past and current amply illustrates.

Slowyourrole

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed, but you seem to have missed this French statistic with links to the original data posted earlier:

According to the study, the average age for Parisians rape suspects was 34, with 44 percent unemployed and 52 percent of them foreign nationals.

Half of those stats are foreign nationals(and nearly a third of victims). Does this mean foreign nationals are all rapists? Of course it doesn't, but it does show a very strong tendency for rapists to be more likely to be foreign nationals. But sure, nothing to see here.

As far as I can see, that study is based on a small sample of cases investigated by police in a 2 year period. Rape support groups claim that 80 to 90% of rapes are not reported to police so the study is severely lacking in representation.



You are making a logical leap to suit your argument. I could just as easily claim that the figures show women are more likely to report a rape to police when it is committed by an immigrant. The figures support both arguments.


You also fail to mention that Paris is the most multi cultural city in Europe with about 25% of the Parisian population being first gen immigrant and 40% of young people have at least one parent who is first gen. So even if the study was representative, you're still only looking at a small disproportion in the stats. Of course, then if you want to go further into it and look at the chances an immigrant lives in poverty or social deprivation and the increased likelihood of someone from that circumstance being involved in crime the picture gets even less simple.


But I guess condensing all that into a simplified headline suits you just fine.

wellwhynot

The Paris figures are similar to Sweden. 58% of rapes that resulted in convictions were committed by non-EU nationals namely North and South Africans, Afghans, Middle Easterns and Arabs. For stranger rapes in Sweden 80% were committed by non-EU nationals.

The_Kew_Tour

wellwhynot wrote: »

The Paris figures are similar to Sweden. 58% of rapes that resulted in convictions were committed by non-EU nationals namely North and South Africans, Afghans, Middle Easterns and Arabs. For stranger rapes in Sweden 80% were committed by non-EU nationals.

Would you have any links?

wellwhynot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Would you have any links?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

Danzy

Slowyourrole wrote: »

He got four months for live streaming it, not for rape.





That's the point of them. The reality is that sexual violence against women, including ones with multiple attackers, is a common occurrence across Europe. Yet we are at a point now where you hear about foreigners raping a woman in Sweden before you'd hear about one in your own county.

There was a German police officer saying he saw one gang rape in his first 25 years, now they are once a month.

Culture and values do matter.

You can't equivocate this away.

Danzy

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Would you have any links?

One of the ways they figured it out was the no. of Rapist questioning that needed an interviewer.

Progressive Sweden tried its best to cover the problem but that was over looked.