rsa supporting e-scooters

CrankyHaus

marcos_94 wrote: »

Im asking you why you think e-scooters should have a tax system but not cyclists

The simple answer is because they fit the definition of a mechanically propelled vehicle that currently requires tax, licensing, insurance etc. This may seem arbitrary but it's a good point to draw the line IMO.

An Garda seems to agree, it has opposed legalisation on safety grounds.

E-scooters present a safety risk through dangerous use, which is currently rampant. You may say bicycles are no different because an experienced and strong cyclist on a good bike and a favourable incline can reach similar speeds. I don't think this is the same as any idiot on an e-scooter being able to quickly accelerate to nearly 30 km/h on their first use and rocket down the footpath to hit someone.

Furthermore while safety concerns do arise with an increase in cyclists it is recognised that the social benefits outweigh these to the point that throttling cycling's appeal with taxation is undesirable. The same benefits aren't all present with e-scooters, particularly the health benefits.

1bryan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

This is a typical nonsense argument from motorist ,

We can't have x until we have infrastructure for x.
Okay lets build it so .
No one is using x there is clearly no demand for infrastructure of x

I'm not a motorist, I'm a cyclist. And, no, its not typical.

the fact is that e-scooters are illegal. That is not a factor in any of the cyclists vs motorists debates. Thus, your point is invalid.

1bryan

marcos_94 wrote: »

I dont think cyclists, pedestrians or e-scooters should have a tax system. Im asking you why you think e-scooters should have a tax system but not cyclists



With regards to speed, the most popular e-scooter manufacturers and models (Xiaomi, Ninebot, GoTrax) are limited to 25-28 kph. There are of course models that can go faster but are significantly more expensive. I dont have one but do cycle and can tell you thats not a difficult speed to maintain while cycling.

With regards to visibility, again, the most popular e-scooters all appear to have in built front and rear lights. This is much better than bikes where lights are extras and a significant share of cyclists dont wear high visibility clothing, nor have lights on their bikes.

Please elaborate on how existing cycling infrastructure is inadequate for e-scooters. I dont think there is any reason why e-scooters are incapable of using cycle lanes or us lanes when a cycle lane is not available, as cyclists do at the moment

you mentioned pedestrians and cyclists in the context of needing a taxation system, not me.

Someone else has articulated why e-scooters need one. And I concur with what they said.

Stark

1bryan wrote: »

I'm not a motorist, I'm a cyclist. And, no, its not typical.

the fact is that e-scooters are illegal. That is not a factor in any of the cyclists vs motorists debates. Thus, your point is invalid.

In a discussion about legalising something, the fact that it is not yet legal is irrelevant.

1bryan

ted1 wrote: »

Wheel size makes a difference, hitting a pothole or kerb with a road bike wheel is much more forgiving than hitting one with a scooter tyre

this is an excellent point, and it would leave the local authorities far more exposed to a civil claim, were a scooterist to have an accident after hitting a pothole.

1bryan

Stark wrote: »

In a discussion about legalising something, the fact that it is not yet legal is irrelevant.

your point, where you implied I was a motorist, is irrelevant.

Stark

1bryan wrote:

this is an excellent point, and it would leave the local authorities far more exposed to a civil claim, were a scooterist to have an accident after hitting a pothole.

How successful have cyclists been with civil claims due to inadequate infrastructure?

1bryan wrote:

your point, where you implied I was a motorist, is irrelevant.

Except I made no such implication. You're so good at taking their stupid arguments against cyclists and turning those against scooters though, that it's easy to see why people would make that mistake.

LeinsterDub

1bryan wrote: »

I'm not a motorist, I'm a cyclist. And, no, its not typical.

the fact is that e-scooters are illegal. That is not a factor in any of the cyclists vs motorists debates. Thus, your point is invalid.

Sorry let me rephrase that . This is a typical circular argument we often hear from the selfish and people who want to stop progress. e-scooters don't need special infrastructure, proper fit for purpose cycle lanes would also work for them.

rubadub

marcos_94 wrote: »

Please elaborate on how existing cycling infrastructure is inadequate for e-scooters.

I find it inadequate and I am on a cross country mountain bike!

The scooters tend to stick dead centre on cycle tracks, if I was forced to use one I would too. They are darting about missing the imperfections on cycletracks, and we all know these "perfectly good cycle lanes" are as rare as hen's teeth. Due to the physics and handling I find it rare to see somebody on a scooter checking behind them.

Noel Rock reckons he gets to 17km/h on his one which is quite slow, if and thats a BIG IF he is telling the truth. Though it is common to see them overtake cyclists but alot of those are derestricted ones. Rocks one looks like the very popular Xiaomi model.

I always thought part of the idea of putting cycletracks etc was also to encourage fitness. If they do take off a lot cyclists will move onto the roads, as even with the traffic they may feel safer and be able to commute faster, I know I will, while legal it will engrave many motorists.

LeinsterDub

ted1 wrote: »

Wheel size makes a difference, hitting a pothole or kerb with a road bike wheel is much more forgiving than hitting one with a scooter tyre

The risk is entirely the riders unless the council has been negligent , same as cycling

magicbastarder

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I don't think this is the same as any idiot on an e-scooter being able to quickly accelerate to nearly 30 km/h on their first use and rocket down the footpath to hit someone.

well then, incorporate that into the legislation, a top speed for scooters.
someone on a scooter getting on one on a footpath and rocking into a pedestrian is already illegal, and will obviously remain so after any legislation might be passed. so i don't see how the point about some people using e-scooters dangerously has any bearing on the debate?
it's the usual argument used to bash cyclists - that because some cyclists behave like idiots, the rest of us get punished.

1bryan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Sorry let me rephrase that . This is a typical circular argument we often hear from the selfish and people who want to stop progress. e-scooters don't need special infrastructure, proper fit for purpose cycle lanes would also work for them.

disagree. They are dangerous and need to be segregated from bicycles.

marcos_94

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The simple answer is because they fit the definition of a mechanically propelled vehicle that currently requires tax, licensing, insurance etc. This may seem arbitrary but it's a good point to draw the line IMO.

That is as it stands currently. What is under discussion is potential changes to this legislation to re-categorise e-scooters. i agree, that right now they are illegal by the letter of the law.

E-scooters present a safety risk through dangerous use, which is currently rampant. You may say bicycles are no different because an experienced and strong cyclist on a good bike and a favourable incline can reach similar speeds. I don't think this is the same as any idiot on an e-scooter being able to quickly accelerate to nearly 30 km/h on their first use and rocket down the footpath to hit someone.

I agree again that there is nothing stopping any idiot getting behind a scooter which is why, as per the RSAs public consultation, there may be training required for people wanting to buy an e-scooter, however, any idiot can currently buy an electric bike, nearly any idiot can get a drivers license, so what is required is appropriate enforcement of regulations to ensure the safety of all road users.

Furthermore while safety concerns do arise with an increase in cyclists it is recognised that the social benefits outweigh these to the point that throttling cycling's appeal with taxation is undesirable. The same benefits aren't all present with e-scooters, particularly the health benefits.

There are however certain shared benefits, including reducing the amount of people driving that would not have considered cycling due to lack of say shower facilities at work, there is of course the potential benefit in reduction of car use and thus reduction in emissions.

beauf

1bryan wrote: »

disagree. They are dangerous and need to be segregated from bicycles.

Do you have any stats to back that up.

LeinsterDub

1bryan wrote: »

disagree. They are dangerous and need to be segregated from bicycles.

[Citation needed] !

As a cyclist you should be well use to this unfounded , not referenced nonsense and shouldn't be using the same nonsense to try limit a mode of transport which will actually help make the argument of further and proper infrastructure for everyone expect motorists

marcos_94

rubadub wrote: »

I find it inadequate and I am on a cross country mountain bike!

The scooters tend to stick dead centre on cycle tracks, if I was forced to use one I would too. They are darting about missing the imperfections on cycletracks, and we all know these "perfectly good cycle lanes" are as rare as hen's teeth. Due to the physics and handling I find it rare to see somebody on a scooter checking behind them.

Noel Rock reckons he gets to 17km/h on his one which is quite slow, if and thats a BIG IF he is telling the truth. Though it is common to see them overtake cyclists but alot of those are derestricted ones. Rocks one looks like the very popular Xiaomi model.

I always thought part of the idea of putting cycletracks etc was also to encourage fitness. If they do take off a lot cyclists will move onto the roads, as even with the traffic they may feel safer and be able to commute faster, I know I will, while legal it will engrave many motorists.

I completely agree that cycle lanes are far from perfect! Have you ever ridden an electric scooter? Having tried one while away last year i can say i was surprised at how manageable they are. I thought they would be a bit more unbalanced.

With regards to the weaving to avoid imperfections, i do that while cycling, as do most cyclists, and I also try to safely avoid potholes while driving. That is a common trait amongst the different road users and not just scooterists. Cyclists are just as guilty of hogging the middle of cycle lanes, again not exclusive to scooterists.

1bryan

magicbastarder wrote: »

well then, incorporate that into the legislation, a top speed for scooters.

if they were legalised, and it was deemed they could use existing cycling infrastructure, I would contest that the e-scooter needs a fundamental redesign. The current design has the rear light no more than 3/4 inches from the road. This is near useless. The rear of the e-scooter should be considerably higher, in order to fix a light to it.

And agree on them being capped on speed. To use a more relevant analogy, e-bikes cut assistance at 25 km/h. Given e-scooters are 100% assisted, a top speed of less than 20km/h would be sensible (though this could introduce different risk issues).

beauf

rubadub wrote: »

...I always thought part of the idea of putting cycletracks etc was also to encourage fitness. If they do take off a lot cyclists will move onto the roads,...

Cycling is not just about fitness. Its a valid form of transport used by millions.

In a city in grid lock and polluted, any alternative to driving like eScooters should be tried.

1bryan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

[Citation needed] !

As a cyclist you should be well use to this unfounded , not referenced nonsense and shouldn't be using the same nonsense to try limit a mode of transport which will actually help make the argument of further and proper infrastructure for everyone expect motorists

I've read this a couple of times and it makes no sense.

1bryan

beauf wrote: »

Do you have any stats to back that up.

its from personal experience of cycling, daily, in the city centre.

LeinsterDub

1bryan wrote: »

I've read this a couple of times and it makes no sense.

Okay , i'll put in different terms, stop pulling stuff out of your arse and presenting it as fact

marcos_94

1bryan wrote: »

if they were legalised, and it was deemed they could use existing cycling infrastructure, I would contest that the e-scooter needs a fundamental redesign. The current design has the rear light no more than 3/4 inches from the road. This is near useless. The rear of the e-scooter should be considerably higher, in order to fix a light to it.

And agree on them being capped on speed. To use a more relevant analogy, e-bikes cut assistance at 25 km/h. Given e-scooters are 100% assisted, a top speed of less than 20km/h would be sensible (though this could introduce different risk issues).

I think the rear lights currently are a good starting point, and I believe it was a good idea by the manufacturers to have them in built unlike bikes. They could definitely be better placed but at least they are there and are bright.

A speed limit is definitely required, but it should match the speed of e-bikes so as to not lead to potential "congestion" as a result of a scooter holding up an e-bike for example. I think what should be implemented is a reduction in acceleration power so as to somewhat mimic e-bike acceleration

1bryan

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Okay , i'll put in different terms, stop pulling stuff out of your arse and presenting it as fact

thats incredibly mature.

LeinsterDub

1bryan wrote: »

its from personal experience of cycling, daily, in the city centre.

So that's a no then.

LeinsterDub

1bryan wrote: »

thats incredibly mature.

I did try to put it in a more mature way but apparently you didn't understand that post.

beauf

1bryan wrote: »

its from personal experience of cycling, daily, in the city centre.

Well you should share your experience properly then.
I'm none the wiser from your comments thus far.

magicbastarder

folks, please keep it clean.

magicbastarder

i do understand that there's a worry that smaller wheels might be a cause to believe that they're more unstable. however, i don't know whether this is actually borne out in reality.
can someone explain to me what else is fundamentally unsafe about scooters, which cannot be addressed in legislation/enforcement?

CapnHex

A point I don't understand here. A couple of posts mentioned escooterists and then cyclists hogging the middle of the cycle lane. Is there such a thing as the middle of the cycle lane? Most cycle lanes that I use are only suitable for 1 bike width, that is in order to overtake slower moving cycle lane traffic, it is required to move outside the cycle lane. Please don't tell me that faster cyclists expect slower cyclists to move into the gutter to allow them to pass more easily, I thought that was motorist logic.

1bryan

magicbastarder wrote: »

i do understand that there's a worry that smaller wheels might be a cause to believe that they're more unstable. however, i don't know whether this is actually borne out in reality.
can someone explain to me what else is fundamentally unsafe about scooters, which cannot be addressed in legislation/enforcement?

interesting question.

Have any of the pro e-scooter side mentioned what kind of concessions, if any, they would be agreeable to, in order for e-scooters to be legalised?

At the moment it seems they want the same rights as cyclists without any kind of concessions. Of course I'm open to correction on this.

Once we knew what potential legislation would look like, then it would be easier to answer your question.

LeinsterDub

1bryan wrote: »

interesting question.

Have any of the pro e-scooter side mentioned what kind of concessions, if any, they would be agreeable to, in order for e-scooters to be legalised?

At the moment it seems they want the same rights as cyclists without any kind of concessions. Of course I'm open to correction on this.

Once we knew what potential legislation would look like, then it would be easier to answer your question.

This has been said dozens of times.

Speed limits, proper lights anything else is up to the rider. In much the same way that if you choose to ride your carbon fiber road racer down a mountain bike track that's your own issue.

Stark

They'd want to be pretty self-loathing to want the same rights as cyclists.

ted1

CapnHex wrote: »

A point I don't understand here. A couple of posts mentioned escooterists and then cyclists hogging the middle of the cycle lane. Is there such a thing as the middle of the cycle lane? Most cycle lanes that I use are only suitable for 1 bike width, that is in order to overtake slower moving cycle lane traffic, it is required to move outside the cycle lane. Please don't tell me that faster cyclists expect slower cyclists to move into the gutter to allow them to pass more easily, I thought that was motorist logic.

The etiquette is to keep left to allow fast cyclists path, common sense applies in the if there's an obstacle keep out.

ted1

1bryan wrote: »

interesting question.

Have any of the pro e-scooter side mentioned what kind of concessions, if any, they would be agreeable to, in order for e-scooters to be legalised?

At the moment it seems they want the same rights as cyclists without any kind of concessions. Of course I'm open to correction on this.

Once we knew what potential legislation would look like, then it would be easier to answer your question.

one issue with that is speed limits don't apply to cyclists.

ted1

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The risk is entirely the riders unless the council has been negligent , same as cycling

granted, but the risks are increased, and the council is more exposed.

as my Father in Law ( a solicitor in a working class part of Dublin) Don't knock the council and their dodgy footpaths, they put your wife through private school.

CrankyHaus

marcos_94 wrote: »

That is as it stands currently. What is under discussion is potential changes to this legislation to re-categorise e-scooters. i agree, that right now they are illegal by the letter of the law.



I agree again that there is nothing stopping any idiot getting behind a scooter which is why, as per the RSAs public consultation, there may be training required for people wanting to buy an e-scooter, however, any idiot can currently buy an electric bike, nearly any idiot can get a drivers license, so what is required is appropriate enforcement of regulations to ensure the safety of all road users.



There are however certain shared benefits, including reducing the amount of people driving that would not have considered cycling due to lack of say shower facilities at work, there is of course the potential benefit in reduction of car use and thus reduction in emissions.

I agree, to a point. I'm not convinced that applying exactly the same rules to e-scooters as we do to cars is the way to go. However I do think something more restrictive than the rules for bicycles is appropriate. Maybe compulsory training on purchase, but that ignores the second hand market. A consultation to figure out what works is the way to go and there are considerable potential benefits.

My point about E-Scooters was that the barrier to access for somebody doing nearly 30 km/h on them is lower than for a bicycle or anything else. Anyone can get a bicycle but doing 30 km/h on one, especially regularly and in a built up area, usually means a level of experience that weeds out the most dangerous users before they get there.

In contrast, with an e-scooter it's simply away you go on first time use at ~30 km/h with potentially zero understanding of road safety and the law. The best comparison I can think of is Roald Dahl's account of his family getting a then-new and barely regulated motor car in his childhood and just burning down the road until they crashed.

Inexperienced cyclists exist - I once got knocked off my bike by one rear ending me and then starting on me - but they'll usually be going slower until they wise up or give up.

Terrible motorists are a huge problem but you can be certain that the barriers for entry prevent the problem from being infinitely worse.

Licensing etc also make enforcement of road traffic laws far easier. IMO enforcing road traffic laws on a class of vehicles without the licensing to enable identification and tracing is borderline impossible, the Gardai barely manage it on motor vehicles as is. Just look at bicycles for an example. Regardless of the odd one being stopped for running a red, law enforcement simply isn't a consideration for most cyclists - if they cycle safely and legally it's because they want to be safe and legal and if they don't they act like the clowns we all see on our commute.

LeinsterDub

ted1 wrote: »

granted, but the risks are increased, and the council is more exposed.

as my Father in Law ( a solicitor in a working class part of Dublin) Don't knock the council and their dodgy footpaths, they put your wife through private school.

We shouldn't ban e scooters because LAs are chronically under funded, we should fund our LAs properly

ted1

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We shouldn't ban e scooters because LAs are chronically under funded, we should fund our LAs properly

No, but we should at how to best provision and allow them within exposure

spaceHopper

magicbastarder wrote: »

i do understand that there's a worry that smaller wheels might be a cause to believe that they're more unstable. however, i don't know whether this is actually borne out in reality.
can someone explain to me what else is fundamentally unsafe about scooters, which cannot be addressed in legislation/enforcement?

Smaller wheels don't handle potholes or bad surfaces well they get stuck.

magicbastarder

i just can't get my head around the notion that we could allow single occupancy vehicles, weighing a ton and a half, doing (even if they're obeying the speed limit on some roads) up to 60km/h, but a vehicle weighing 15Kg and capable of less than half the speed is too much to consider.

Padre_Pio

CrankyHaus wrote: »

I agree, to a point. I'm not convinced that applying exactly the same rules to e-scooters as we do to cars is the way to go. However I do think something more restrictive than the rules for bicycles is appropriate. Maybe compulsory training on purchase, but that ignores the second hand market. A consultation to figure out what works is the way to go and there are considerable potential benefits.

My point about E-Scooters was that the barrier to access for somebody doing nearly 30 km/h on them is lower than for a bicycle or anything else. Anyone can get a bicycle but doing 30 km/h on one, especially regularly and in a built up area, usually means a level of experience that weeds out the most dangerous users before they get there.

In contrast, with an e-scooter it's simply away you go on first time use at ~30 km/h with potentially zero understanding of road safety and the law. The best comparison I can think of is Roald Dahl's account of his family getting a then-new and barely regulated motor car in his childhood and just burning down the road until they crashed.

Inexperienced cyclists exist - I once got knocked off my bike by one rear ending me and then starting on me - but they'll usually be going slower until they wise up or give up.

Terrible motorists are a huge problem but you can be certain that the barriers for entry prevent the problem from being infinitely worse.

Licensing etc also make enforcement of road traffic laws far easier. IMO enforcing road traffic laws on a class of vehicles without the licensing to enable identification and tracing is borderline impossible, the Gardai barely manage it on motor vehicles as is. Just look at bicycles for an example. Regardless of the odd one being stopped for running a red, law enforcement simply isn't a consideration for most cyclists - if they cycle safely and legally it's because they want to be safe and legal and if they don't they act like the clowns we all see on our commute.

This is all sound advice, but do we need to reinvent the wheel here?

E-scooters are available in most European cities through Lime and Voi.
Our problem is tiny compared to them. Surely someone has cracked it.

Incidentally, they're lethal if you're not careful, there's definitely a European manners thing where people are hesitant to use them on pedestrian streets, but I doubt we'd be so restrained.

LeeroyJ.

From someone that has been riding an escooter to and from work before COVID19 for nearly a year, a lot of the elitist comments from Cyclist are just pure ignorance.
If legalized they should be limited to 20-25 kph, just like in most other countries, any halfway decent bike that isn't a Dublin Bike hits 25 kph with ease. In fact, I am usually one of the slower vehicles on my Xiaomi and get overtaken by bikes constantly. You aren't going 30kph constantly, you do 25 in ideal conditions (warm, full battery, downhill, under weight limit) realistically you're doing 18 to 20 most of the time. Of course there are people on crazy machines doing 40+ but those should be illegal once regulated. And those people are few and the exception, since a) these machines are extremely expensive nad b) the Guards are unlikely to turn a blind eye to these machines.

There should be an age limit and possibly even drivers licence required, safety standards and possibly even models approved by the RSA. Other than that there is little difference to an e-bike. It always amazes me how cyclist want greener cities, less congestion - but only if you are cycling. Skateboarding, inline skates, scooters (electric or non-electric) and other forms of transport don't seem to fit their world view.

Anyway, the UK is starting a trial period, which I think is a smart decision. Trial of new forms of transport are exactly what we need to get more people out of cars. Many countries have made them legal or a trialing them currently.

beauf

Padre_Pio wrote: »

This is all sound advice, but do we need to reinvent the wheel here?

E-scooters are available in most European cities through Lime and Voi.
Our problem is tiny compared to them. Surely someone has cracked it.

Incidentally, they're lethal if you're not careful, there's definitely a European manners thing where people are hesitant to use them on pedestrian streets, but I doubt we'd be so restrained.

Well this is it exactly. In Europe they have similar rules to cycles but not exactly the same. This is not rocket science.

https://www.eltis.org/discover/news/e-scooter-regulations-germany-and-france

beauf

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

From someone that has been riding an escooter to and from work before COVID19 for nearly a year, a lot of the elitist comments from Cyclist are just pure ignorance. ..

... It always amazes me how cyclist want greener cities, less congestion - but only if you are cycling. Skateboarding, inline skates, scooters (electric or non-electric) and other forms of transport don't seem to fit their world view. ....

There a lot of comments from cyclists here all in favour of eScooters, and only a minority against. So less of the sweeping generalizations, please.

eeeee

Yep I've no problem at all with E-Scooters, and I have a city centre commute. Like bikes I think they should all have lights, a speed limit for them (25kph) follow the rules of the road etc. I don't agree with them needing a license or similar, I think it's a form of transport we need to incentivise. It's something most people can do and should be encouraged, alongside cycling and public transport to reduce private car use in the city/town.

Thelonious Monk

Handy thing is you could just step off and walk through pedestrian crossings, or go on path and walk around a red light if you're turning left.
The ones I've seen commuters on all seem to behave impeccably, and you really would need to as you're pretty exposed if you start taking risks.

CramCycle

1bryan wrote: »

I've read this a couple of times and it makes no sense.

Basically you have claimed they are dangerous to cyclists but offered nothing to back up your assertion. I have met loads of escooters on my commutes, bar one nearly snotting herself because she stopped paying attention, none appeared to be any danger to anyone but possibly themselves.

1bryan wrote: »

Have any of the pro e-scooter side mentioned what kind of concessions, if any, they would be agreeable to, in order for e-scooters to be legalised?

I am not sure what concessions you mean, here would be my suggestions for regulations:
- illeagal on the footpath, gardai would sieze as well as issuing a fine for anyone using one on a footpath.
- they have a motor and are unaided, put an exemption to road tax and registration for those that are limited to a speed of 25kmph, and under a certain weight. Most people can easily prve this to Gardai yb pulling up the stats on their phone. Gardai as always can sieze, like they do with bikes, if they feel they are being presented with false information.
- allow them access to use bike paths as an exception to other motorised vehicles
- all other laws in line with motor bikes and cyclists
- all users after readers dusk must have a front and rear light mounted on their person, at waist height or above. Failure to abide leads to a FPN like it does with cyclists.

Stark wrote: »

They'd want to be pretty self-loathing to want the same rights as cyclists.

Nearly drowned on my coffee when I read that

ted1 wrote: »

granted, but the risks are increased, and the council is more exposed.
as my Father in Law ( a solicitor in a working class part of Dublin) Don't knock the council and their dodgy footpaths, they put your wife through private school.

Increaed by what factor? How exposed are they at the minute? How big an issue is it really.

1bryan

CramCycle wrote: »

Basically you have claimed they are dangerous to cyclists but offered nothing to back up your assertion. I have met loads of escooters on my commutes, bar one nearly snotting herself because she stopped paying attention, none appeared to be any danger to anyone but possibly themselves.

I was knocked off by an e-scooter who was fairly tanking it along and lost control as he came up alongside me. This happened in Rathfarnham, near the Yellow House pub, so I wasn't even as far as the city centre when it happened. Otherwise, aggressive riding by e-scooterists along the cycle lanes during rush hour when impatient of slower moving cyclists, is the biggest issue I've seen. I've seen some jostling, and close passes in the section of the canal between leeson st bridge, and Rathmines (I leave the canal at Rathmines).

The above behaviour is what I've noticed by, both, e-scooters, and by unregulated e-bikes. I have not been taken town by an unregulated e-bike, however.

Of course, you only have my word to take for any of the above. No doubt some of the pro scooter crowd will be asking for photos and video footage next.

buffalo

CramCycle wrote: »

- they have a motor and are unaided, put an exemption to road tax and registration

Why Cram, why have you betrayed us!?!

LeinsterDub

1bryan wrote: »

I was knocked off by an e-scooter who was fairly tanking it along and lost control as he came up alongside me. This happened in Rathfarnham, near the Yellow House pub, so I wasn't even as far as the city centre when it happened. Otherwise, aggressive riding by e-scooterists along the cycle lanes during rush hour when impatient of slower moving cyclists, is the biggest issue I've seen. I've seen some jostling, and close passes in the section of the canal between leeson st bridge, and Rathmines (I leave the canal at Rathmines).

The above behaviour is what I've noticed by, both, e-scooters, and by unregulated e-bikes. I have not been taken town by an unregulated e-bike, however.

Of course, you only have my word to take for any of the above. No doubt some of the pro scooter crowd will be asking for photos and video footage next.

I certainly wont be asking for evidence because your anecdotes are meaningless to a wider conversation about e-scooters, in much the same way that people's anecdotes about cyclist knocking someone down on the footpath are meaningless to a wider conversation