VW ID.4

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952064#Comment_121952064

Usable left should be a lot more, I'm at 2.5 years and show no degradation as far as I see so assuming that in October and maybe 95,000 Kms it will still show 73 Kwh.

It will be interesting to pull a report from the BMS this weekend and see what's going on after a while.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952310#Comment_121952310

I'm sure to VW the only thing that matters is what's available out of 82 Kwh or total battery capacity not what's available to us.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952633#Comment_121952633

I'm pretty sure this got covered in another thread, but the 73kWh seems to be the measurement from 100% to 0%. But there's several kWh hidden under 0% as a bottom buffer

As I recall there's two registers, maximum energy capacity and total energy capacity. I think total reads 73kWh when charged to 100%

If you drive to 0% then I vaguely remember the total reads 0kWh but the maximum still reads 2-4kWh

Those kWh are available in that you can drive around below 0%, but I agree it's unfair to use that in the marketing materials because most sane drivers won't drive around with 0% SoC

the_amazing_raisin

Okay this screenshot kind of demonstrates my point

Display SoC is -0.63%

HV battery energy content is 0kWh

But SoC BMS is 5.2%, indicating there's still energy in the battery

There seems to be a ~6% bottom buffer based on the BMS.

So if you're reading 73kWh from the HV battery energy content, then you actually have 106% of that which is 77.38kWh

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952623#Comment_121952623

Degradation is guaranteed to happen on any Li ion battery from day 1 due to mainly normal ageing, discharge/charging cycles and also due to a number of potential stress events such as total time held at 100%/close to 0% , extremes of temperature etc. Etc.. That being said given a good BMS and the Conservative use of top and bottom buffers by VW it is unlikely that degradation will be very significant until higher mileage and greater age is realised- BUT it won't be zero either. Accepted wisdom at the moment is that greatest degradation happens in yr1 of the battery maybe up to 5% and tails off in subsequent years (assuming average mileage) to 1 - 2% per year. It will be interesting to see what number you can come up with as total energy in kWh available at 100% charge.

id.4 fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952623#Comment_121952623

zero degradation at 95k is impossible.

Either wrong info or wrong calculation.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952715#Comment_121952715

Yeah if that were true though I would have noticed some degradation in the BMW id3 and the VW id3 but I don't it's not being reported yet. The Buffer in the BMW was a lot less too but the reported cycle life was remarkable, I know other factors effect degradation but whatever was going on the i3 and id3 aren't kind enough to show capacity loss. Or maybe the BMW is programmed to tell us sh1t lol.

I did notice it however in the 24 Kwh Leaf.

I would like to know the 94 Ah i3 now to see how it's going.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952856#Comment_121952856

Here's the thing, the BMW id3 reported 28 Kwh from the time I got it until I traded it, I noticed no range loss.

I'll be interested to know the latest on the id3.

Rusky rusky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953012#Comment_121953012

Get a Tesla and be happy. A few of us here move from ID.3 to MY and had 0 regrets. Even wipers won't convince us to move back to VW:)

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953027#Comment_121953027

I'm not that big a tesla fan to be honest and again, big screen all that, works for some not for others, unfortunately not my thing. + I won't be getting another car loan for a new car in a hurry.

eagerv

I was a bit the same till I got one. 🙂.

Simple and easy to use, I am a bit of a technophobe, but would far prefer the big screen to the UI of VW, Hyundai etc.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952992#Comment_121952992

Some Kia/Hyundai EV models can show 100% SOH after 3 years. This implies 0% degradation but in reality what has happened is that some of the top buffer ( 3 to 4kWh) is released by the manufacturer to mask the degradation which happened and keep the customers happy. I would suspect that this practice is used by other manufacturers also. There's a big thread around early march in the ID3 thread which covers more on degradation. In summary if you have an OBD11 dongle along with car scanner you can get a number for the "HV battery energy content " in kWh. At 100% state of charge as I understand it the reading for a brand new battery should be close to 55.8kWh for a 58kWh ID3. Anything less than this indicates the amount of degradation in kWh. Mind you this is not an exact science and it is recommended to do at least 4 readings to hopefully get a reasonably accurate average result- also tests should be done at higher ambient temperatures as this should help getting the best capacity reading out of the battery.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953479#Comment_121953479

Maybe VW are unlocking some of that buffer, or, maybe not, not sure, the buffer is so large to begin with they might not have to do this for a while.

Not sure how BMW did it with the 94 Ah i3 as it had a much smaller buffer but the cycle life specs were astounding for the time. I know there other factors at play.

Badger242

Has anyone ever got the yellow warning on the dash 'Error: drive system. Please visit workshop'? I bought a 2021 1st edition earlier in the week and it showed up this morning when the car was in the driveway. I was unable to put the car in D, B, N or R. It cleared after I turned the car off and back on. The same thing happened this afternoon when driving and I couldn't put it in any of the modes again. The car felt strange while driving and the brakes were very soft.

If it makes any difference, the software is still 2.3. I have it booked in with VW for an update.

I'm very tempted to just give the car back to the dealer (non VW). They have a 7 day no hassle returns policy. I really like the car but issues after four days of ownership and the car out of warrenty is worrying.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953562#Comment_121953562

The new version of the Born is coming with apparently a 59kWh usable battery- I assume using the same 62kWh gross battery but releasing an additional kWh from the original buffer.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953865#Comment_121953865

That's not a lot really probably just different cell specs maybe ?

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953806#Comment_121953806

Same thing just happened with my wife's 2021 ID.3 which we bought two weeks ago. Brought to our local VW dealer and diagnosed gear shifter failure. Luckily still has 1 month VW warranty left.

Badger242

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954067#Comment_121954067

That's the sort of problem I'm worried about. The car does come with a three month 3rd party warranty. But I don't really fancy trying to manage a non-manufacturer warranty claim.

Mad_Lad

ok

So test shows 71.8 kWh under max energy in traction battery, last time was 73.

That’s very different from the pic above which shows 79. Something?

car charge 60%

Why do all the info populate in car scanner, pro version ?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953865#Comment_121953865

they are using that in the smaller ID4 in the states

Rusky rusky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953562#Comment_121953562

VW doesn't unlock any buffers. I had an official figure of 93.3% SOH. So no, there's was n omagical top ups from hidden buffers. Battery life had his 3yo 1st plua ID.3 tested in Sept 2023 and it was 91-92% SOH.

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954257#Comment_121954257

Is it not HV energy content that's available to the user, not Max?

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954673#Comment_121954673

Not sure to be honest, I'll try again after a full charge tonight, not optimal probably as I don't think the battery will be up to temp.

Anyone know why car scanner isn't showing me all the info ?

Mad_Lad

Here's a few screen shots, no idea why some of the information doesn't display anyway as you can see it's a long way off the 79 Kwh in the pic above.

https://imgur.com/xP0GjD6

https://imgur.com/osczcQN

https://imgur.com/QmWuCLk

https://imgur.com/ZBrUxeI

Mad_Lad

So just to remind people this is the id3 77 Kwh.

Battery temp 8.75 Deg, charged to 100%.

So it appears I have 67 Kwh available at 8.7 Deg c, whether this will go up much at 20 Deg c remains to be seen but it's a long way off the 79 Kwh as in the pic the_amazing-rasin posted above.

So is that 67 Kwh of 71.8 available then ? or is it 71.8 Kwh ?

I Can't find any pics or previous battery checks but I do remember "max energy content of the traction battery " reading 73 Kwh.

It's still a lot of battery we can't access from new, not cheap either.

Comer1

I'm very interested to know if it's the HV energy content or the Max energy content that's available. My kWh/100 km would suggest it's the HV energy content.

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954223#Comment_121954223

It's a lot better than High Voltage Battery problem, my dealer first thought.

Ev fan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955590#Comment_121955590

Thanks for sharing interesting stats. My interpretation of this is that you have 67kWh usable at the time of test versus 73.8kWh when new. Note also that you still have your full top and bottom buffers as VW don't release them over time. This suggests that you have 9% degradation after 2.5 years and 75k kms ( are those numbers right?). A few comments

1. In itself 9% degradation is not a bad result after almost 3 years and a reasonably high mileage at 75k kms.
2. This is only one data point - I'd like to see another 3 data test points to get a more averaged result and also to see the variation between the values - a narrow spread would give more credence to the test repeatability/accuracy
3. Repeating the test at higher ambient temperature- say greater than 15 degrees should have the battery at its optimum and it would be interesting to see if you manage to get a lower result.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955678#Comment_121955678

max energy will have been around the 77kWh figure when new

HV energy content is what you have available to 0% but as has been said you can drive beyond 0% in some cases.

So you can calculate % degradation using either figure but they don’t both have the same starting point even when new.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955856#Comment_121955856

2.5 years to be exact.

73 would have been the max available in the traction battery, i don't remember what the ev energy was.