Deer on Welfare

Vulture 1

Bit of a vent here. But it's starting to bother me and I wonder how wide spread it is in our beautiful nanny state. Where I hunt now we have at least 4 guys I know of shooting deer all day everyday. They are all on welfare no visible means of income best of gear clothing guns jeeps. How are they doing it?
I work moderately hard I ve good gear but I could not justify what I see with these guys. How is this fair on those paying taxes why is it allowed carry on. Everyone is on about poaching but these guys must be killing a lot of deer.

Wesser

cant be shootiing 24 7 if they have to go the dole office

Stonehall9

Vulture 1 wrote: »

Bit of a vent here. But it's starting to bother me and I wonder how wide spread it is in our beautiful nanny state. Where I hunt now we have at least 4 guys I know of shooting deer all day everyday. They are all on welfare no visible means of income best of gear clothing guns jeeps. How are they doing it?
I work moderately hard I ve good gear but I could not justify what I see with these guys. How is this fair on those paying taxes why is it allowed carry on. Everyone is on about poaching but these guys must be killing a lot of deer.

It makes you wonder, I've a nice permission with lots of deer but Its at the risk of being shot or having my jeep done in or getting the head kicked off me that I could go there, none of the cun** work but spend day and night trespassing, guards won't do **** all, prob not there fault cos they haven't the resources, but quick to come to my door to check all is in order. You'd wonder would the CAB or someone have any interest in these poor dole men with the best of every thing. Doesn't add up

Grizzly 45

Question of pirorities for AGS and CAB...
Whats doing more damage to Irish society? Narco gangs diddling millions from the State and importing millions of euros of drugs and full auto firearms,with para military involvement,and all the ancillary crime that comes with it?

Or

Joe Doley & Co making a few extra thousand on the QT shooting deer?With ,in many cases the blind eye turned by farmers,NPWS,AGS,etc,as the opinion seems to be "Too many of dem feckers about anyway! Atein me grass and plantation o young trees an wreckin me fences!":rolleyes:

So take a WAG where the Govts,the Cheif comissioner,the CAB and Revenue and minister for Justice pirorities will be?
Joe D & Co are easier to sort out mind.All you do is take the "aisey money" out of the equation,by banning wild deer sales for five years to Irish game dealers,and they will move onto the next aisey money racket.
Simples really.

Stonehall9

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Question of pirorities for AGS and CAB...
Whats doing more damage to Irish society? Narco gangs diddling millions from the State and importing millions of euros of drugs and full auto firearms,with para military involvement,and all the ancillary crime that comes with it?

Or

Joe Doley & Co making a few extra thousand on the QT shooting deer?With ,in many cases the blind eye turned by farmers,NPWS,AGS,etc,as the opinion seems to be "Too many of dem feckers about anyway! Atein me grass and plantation o young trees an wreckin me fences!":rolleyes:

So take a WAG where the Govts,the Cheif comissioner,the CAB and Revenue and minister for Justice pirorities will be?
Joe D & Co are easier to sort out mind.All you do is take the "aisey money" out of the equation,by banning wild deer sales for five years to Irish game dealers,and they will move onto the next aisey money racket.
Simples really.

Ya at the end of the day it's all about the money. As you say ban the sale of it simples. Then again when you see two venison steaks on sale in the market for 12 Euro it will never stop because the money is too handy on all sides.

Vulture 1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Question of pirorities for AGS and CAB...
Whats doing more damage to Irish society? Narco gangs diddling millions from the State and importing millions of euros of drugs and full auto firearms,with para military involvement,and all the ancillary crime that comes with it?

Or

Joe Doley & Co making a few extra thousand on the QT shooting deer?With ,in many cases the blind eye turned by farmers,NPWS,AGS,etc,as the opinion seems to be "Too many of dem feckers about anyway! Atein me grass and plantation o young trees an wreckin me fences!":rolleyes:

So take a WAG where the Govts,the Cheif comissioner,the CAB and Revenue and minister for Justice pirorities will be?
Joe D & Co are easier to sort out mind.All you do is take the "aisey money" out of the equation,by banning wild deer sales for five years to Irish game dealers,and they will move onto the next aisey money racket.
Simples really.

I know a blind eye is being shown to this but I m from a farming background and I know most farmers are of the opinion that the only good deer is a dead deer. But what farming and forestry fail to see is these guys are only shooting bucks the amount of doe shoot is not enough. They shoot all mature animals for weight. No one wins sports shooter has no trophys and deer numbers keep expanding so farmer and foresters are stilldealing with an ever expanding problem. There is no joined up thinking and the only ones gaining are the good for nothing ****s who rape our social systems and our natural resources.

A ban on all Male deer for sale except on licence for estates forestry etc may work better.

gctest50

They are doing trojan work 24/7 compared to lads looking for a set of antlers to put above the flatscreen tv above the stove

Only good deer is ....venison

Watch what happened when they put wolves back into Yellowstone :

We don't need wolves here, have guns and they be shooting bullets. Ideal for venison production

Vulture 1

gctest50 wrote: »

They are doing trojan work 24/7 compared to lads looking for a set of antlers to put above the flatscreen tv above the stove

Only good deer is ....venison

Watch what happened when they put wolves back into Yellowstone :

We don't need wolves here, have guns and they be shooting bullets. Ideal for venison production

Who are they ?

Who are they doing for ?

If they are on social welfare able to do trojan work why cant they go get a job so I dont have to pay for them and their families.

Stonehall9

Vulture 1 wrote: »

I know a blind eye is being shown to this but I m from a farming background and I know most farmers are of the opinion that the only good deer is a dead deer. But what farming and forestry fail to see is these guys are only shooting bucks the amount of doe shoot is not enough. They shoot all mature animals for weight. No one wins sports shooter has no trophys and deer numbers keep expanding so farmer and foresters are stilldealing with an ever expanding problem. There is no joined up thinking and the only ones gaining are the good for nothing ****s who rape our social systems and our natural resources.

A ban on all Male deer for sale except on licence for estates forestry etc may work better.

Yes your spot on there, weight pays and that's all they care about.we have deer at home and last year I rang a game dealer because we had to cull 4 (they are reds) but he offered me €80 each , my father said he'd rather leave them living than have them shot and sold for that price.

Stonehall9

gctest50 wrote: »

They are doing trojan work 24/7 compared to lads looking for a set of antlers to put above the flatscreen tv above the stove

Only good deer is ....venison

Watch what happened when they put wolves back into Yellowstone :

We don't need wolves here, have guns and they be shooting bullets. Ideal for venison production

Your a real help

Vulture 1

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Yes your spot on there, weight pays and that's all they care about.we have deer at home and last year I rang a game dealer because we had to cull 4 (they are reds) but he offered me €80 each , my father said he'd rather leave them living than have them shot and sold for that price.

Ya I m not surprised at you experience. Everyone enjoys a shot in September take a nice pricket long evenings good weather sometimes. But deer management proper only starts In the doe and hind season. No glamour there and poor return for a bum who s used to getting it all for nothing.

Vulture 1

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Yes your spot on there, weight pays and that's all they care about.we have deer at home and last year I rang a game dealer because we had to cull 4 (they are reds) but he offered me €80 each , my father said he'd rather leave them living than have them shot and sold for that price.

Ya I m not surprised at you experience. Everyone enjoys a shot in September take a nice pricket long evenings good weather sometimes. But deer management proper only starts In the doe and hind season. No glamour there and poor return for a bum who s used to getting it all for nothing.

Grizzly 45

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Yes your spot on there, weight pays and that's all they care about.we have deer at home and last year I rang a game dealer because we had to cull 4 (they are reds) but he offered me €80 each , my father said he'd rather leave them living than have them shot and sold for that price.

And the dealer will make appx 320 /350 per carcass.You are getting a pittance here,compared were you allowed to sell it without a game dealer.

Stonehall9

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And the dealer will make appx 320 /350 per carcass.You are getting a pittance here,compared were you allowed to sell it without a game dealer.

I'd have said 150 an animal was a fair price considering as I said before the stall in the local market in town has a man selling two steaks for 12.50 !!

Grizzly 45

gctest50 wrote: »

They are doing trojan work 24/7 compared to lads looking for a set of antlers to put above the flatscreen tv above the stove

Only good deer is ....venison

Watch what happened when they put wolves back into Yellowstone :

We don't need wolves here, have guns and they be shooting bullets. Ideal for venison production

Yeah,it doesnt mention that the packs are now outside Yellowstone deprading ranchers cattle stocks of yearlings and calves. as well.Wolves like any wild creature will move to a plentiful food supply that is easily obtainable.Why we have urban foxes,and wild boar in cities in Germany. This "noble wolf" can be some delusional ****e too.

gctest50

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Yeah,it doesnt mention that the packs are now outside Yellowstone deprading ranchers cattle stocks of yearlings and calves. as well.Wolves like any wild creature will move to a plentiful food supply that is easily obtainable.Why we have urban foxes,and wild boar in cities in Germany. This "noble wolf" can be some delusional ****e too.

I know, that's why i said :

We don't need wolves here

cookimonster

Stonehall9 wrote: »

I'd have said 150 an animal was a fair price considering as I said before the stall in the local market in town has a man selling two steaks for 12.50 !!

I think your man was doing you there for Reds, a good Sika stag is worth between €90 to €100 at dealer prices. No producer whether hunter or farmer ever gets the value of the product as seen from the consumers perspective.

I absolutely agree that the 'attitude' of shooting big animals for big pay outs is wrong from a herd management stance. But if you put aside the original topic of the thread- 'hunters on welfare making money etc' I must ask-
'Why do so many of you frown upon the sale of wild venison?'
In the UK it is a viable market/trade/commodity, even Germany allows the sale of venison by hunters. I'd say that per head of population we are only playing at stalking compared to the UK and the amount of venison that goes to market is staggering.
There are loop holes in the system here, but there are always loop holes for people to exploit if they are so inclined. No amount of legislation or ban will stop lads dealing out the back of thier vans etc. But overly strict regs will put venison out of the reach of the ordinary Joe and Josephine Soap who wish to buy legitimately sourced venison.

Vulture 1

cookimonster wrote: »

I think your man was doing you there for Reds, a good Sika stag is worth between €90 to €100 at dealer prices. No producer whether hunter or farmer ever gets the value of the product as seen from the consumers perspective.

I absolutely agree that the 'attitude' of shooting big animals for big pay outs is wrong from a herd management stance. But if you put aside the original topic of the thread- 'hunters on welfare making money etc' I must ask-
'Why do so many of you frown upon the sale of wild venison?'
In the UK it is a viable market/trade/commodity, even Germany allows the sale of venison by hunters. I'd say that per head of population we are only playing at stalking compared to the UK and the amount of venison that goes to market is staggering.
There are loop holes in the system here, but there are always loop holes for people to exploit if they are so inclined. No amount of legislation or ban will stop lads dealing out the back of thier vans etc. But overly strict regs will put venison out of the reach of the ordinary Joe and Josephine Soap who wish to buy legitimately sourced venison.

I dont frown up on it. I see the need for game dealers. In fact to manage deer effectively I believe they are essential. After all if yu shoot more than 5 deer a year you cant ate em all.

Grizzly 45

I dont" frown on it".I despise it,as a lucrative money making racket of a cartel that is encouraging poaching by paying low prices on their raw material,that they then export out of here to appx 100% profits to the EU.As well as aking,if the EU market is being flooded with a byproduct ,actual venison,from the "velvet" industry of commercial deer farming in New Zealand,that has anihalated commercial deer farming in the EU.Where are they making their money to stay in busisness

Whats the point in going off in doing a wild game handling course and butchering course,if you then cant sell as a qualified individual outside the more or less fixed price of the Game dealers?Which you can do in Europe ,on individual sales.

If some GD's can put aside 20 thousand euros,the max of a dist court fine,per annum as a "busisness expense" if they get caught by some sting or whatever with poached deer,and pay it in cash ,and continue on their merry way....you really have to ask yourselves,what the Frup is going on?:mad:

Grizzly 45

Vulture 1 wrote: »

I dont frown up on it. I see the need for game dealers. In fact to manage deer effectively I believe they are essential. After all if yu shoot more than 5 deer a year you cant ate em all.

How about not being greedy and quit shooting that season???:rolleyes:

cookimonster

Deer are worth more to me in my freezer, food wise then cash. The average Sika will yield between 20 - 30 adult dinners for 4 of us at home. So over the month thats steaks, mince dishes, stews/pies/casseroles, roasts and various Indian and Oriental dishes. I have more or less replaced any red meat, beef or lamb with venison. I've often served roast vension dressed as beef to unsuspecting guests, while a nicely cooked leg off a calf goes very well with mint sauce..

I will move on a few deer a season which I throw back into my hunting paying for ammo and fuel.

Vulture 1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

How about not being greedy and quit shooting that season???:rolleyes:

Cause I gained my permissions on the promise I shoot deer for the farmers.. would you prefer I left them for the aforementioned to keep them in the luxury they have become accustomed to.

650gs

As self emplyed I pay tax in other words I charge vat and pay it back, if I sell my van its part of my company so classed as earnings so again I pay the tax on my own van, but lets not forget I did claim the vat back when I bought it.

So if I was to go and shoot say 20 deer and sold them at 100 euro each thats 2000 euro earnings I have to declare and pay tax on.

Are we getting the point here so if the dealers were to hand the names to revenue someone would have to pay tax on there earnings and if it was someone on social there working so dole stops if they give a mates name he gets hit with the tax bill.

I think that might slow things down a bit.

Just a thought

Grizzly 45

Vulture 1 wrote: »

Cause I gained my permissions on the promise I shoot deer for the farmers.. would you prefer I left them for the aforementioned to keep them in the luxury they have become accustomed to.

No,but if we were living in an ideal situation,you could shoot your 5 ,and then suggest to the farmer,that there a few foregin lads who would happily pay us 7 to 800 depending on the head for the privilidge of hunting an Irish..whatever?And iff you gave them a bed a bite to ate in the evenings and a sup of drink,you could double that income.
Instead of looking at them as a pest ,they should be looking at them as a potential income with changing farming practises markets and the rest.
A good trophy stag with B&B done right could be worth more than 5 beasts in the factory,for alot less work these days and it will come to this too when people are left wondering WTF do I do now once the beef mrket collapses further.
We are in a situation now soon here that if we really dont get our sht together,we WILL lose out as ligit stalkers on our pretty much free hunting in Ireland.

Grizzly 45

650gs wrote: »

As self emplyed I pay tax in other words I charge vat and pay it back, if I sell my van its part of my company so classed as earnings so again I pay the tax on my own van, but lets not forget I did claim the vat back when I bought it.

So if I was to go and shoot say 20 deer and sold them at 100 euro each thats 2000 euro earnings I have to declare and pay tax on.

Are we getting the point here so if the dealers were to hand the names to revenue someone would have to pay tax on there earnings and if it was someone on social there working so dole stops if they give a mates name he gets hit with the tax bill.

I think that might slow things down a bit.

Just a thought

Can we say "Data protection act"? And " sharing of personal information with unauthorised 3rd parties."?:rolleyes: Yes, that also includes Govt agencies,witness the PSA card debacle.
The difference between you,me and Joe Doler,is you and me are trying to do things legally and the right way and proably own our own houses and have assets,Joe Doler doesnt have that problem,and never will.Again to govt depts ,this is chump change in the big picture of things. Its a bottom list of pirorities to go bother Joe in his council house for a couple of grand,when you could be pulling down some dodgy scrap merchant or Arthur Daly used car dealer,with a halfway decent asset and property portfolio,where it is in the tens or hundreds of thousands.That and manpower being in short supply.

The solution is again,take the easy money aspect from this and lock down the sales of native carcasses for a few years.Those that hunt for the pot will have enough,those that are hunting for profit will soon be out of a cash stream.

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Can we say "Data protection act"? And " sharing of personal information with unauthorised 3rd parties."?:rolleyes: Yes, that also includes Govt agencies,witness the PSA card debacle.
The difference between you,me and Joe Doler,is you and me are trying to do things legally and the right way and proably own our own houses and have assets,Joe Doler doesnt have that problem,and never will.Again to govt depts ,this is chump change in the big picture of things. Its a bottom list of pirorities to go bother Joe in his council house for a couple of grand,when you could be pulling down some dodgy scrap merchant or Arthur Daly used car dealer,with a halfway decent asset and property portfolio,where it is in the tens or hundreds of thousands.That and manpower being in short supply.

The solution is again,take the easy money aspect from this and lock down the sales of native carcasses for a few years.Those that hunt for the pot will have enough,those that are hunting for profit will soon be out of a cash stream.

I think you're wrong there Grizzly. It's will within the Department of Social Protection and Revenue's remit to investigate welfare and tax fraud and to take action to identify suspects.

The gathering of personal data by state agencies for a lawful purpose is well within the framework of data protection legislation.

The PSA card imho fell faul of data protection issues because of a lack of specification of it's exact purpose and use and the perceived bandwagon that started to get rolling with all sorts of agencies starting to look for it as a form of ID. Like what's wrong with a good old passport ?

Grizzly 45

[

QUOTE=meathstevie;111101909]I think you're wrong there Grizzly. It's will within the Department of Social Protection and Revenue's remit to investigate welfare and tax fraud and to take action to identify suspects.

True,

The gathering of personal data by state agencies for a lawful purpose is well within the framework of data protection legislation.

But !You are not under any obligation as a game dealer to report suspicious transactions,as of yet.
Plus I reckon most of these dealers are well aware of the shifty lot supplying them and are cooking the books already on where and whom shot what.

The PSA card imho fell faul of data protection issues because of a lack of specification of it's exact purpose and use and the perceived bandwagon that started to get rolling with all sorts of agencies starting to look for it as a form of ID. Like what's wrong with a good old passport ?

Not only that it was storing too much info on one card that could be accessed by one single reader in the future.Is it any busisness of the revenue office ,about your in grown toenail from your docs records?Would have been a boon for any data theft.

Always Tired

Wow a dole bashing thread in the hunting forum.

Let me guess they all have massive flat screen TVs, Sky full package, holidays in Spain every year.

If it's so great why dont you just go on the dole then? Seems obvious.

Vulture 1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

No,but if we were living in an ideal situation,you could shoot your 5 ,and then suggest to the farmer,that there a few foregin lads who would happily pay us 7 to 800 depending on the head for the privilidge of hunting an Irish..whatever?And iff you gave them a bed a bite to ate in the evenings and a sup of drink,you could double that income.
Instead of looking at them as a pest ,they should be looking at them as a potential income with changing farming practises markets and the rest.
A good trophy stag with B&B done right could be worth more than 5 beasts in the factory,for alot less work these days and it will come to this too when people are left wondering WTF do I do now once the beef mrket collapses further.
We are in a situation now soon here that if we really dont get our sht together,we WILL lose out as ligit stalkers on our pretty much free hunting in Ireland.

Agreed would have no problem with it as long as the operator didn't close down ground and left me work away on cull animals. Airports pup hotels gun dealers all making a few pound.

Stonehall9

Always Tired wrote: »

Wow a dole bashing thread in the hunting forum.

Let me guess they all have massive flat screen TVs, Sky full package, holidays in Spain every year.

If it's so great why dont you just go on the dole then? Seems obvious.

Maybe because we have some bit of pride and in this day and age anyone that's on the dole doesn't want to work anyway. Why would they , free house free money , poaching deer fish, lie in every day , great life if you enjoy being a sponge.

Stonehall9

Am I Actually wrote: »

You're definately better off working for peanuts and being treated like ****e for less than you'd get on benefits just so the rich can get richer on your toil & misery

Granted there are benefit spongers out there BUT there are a lot of genuine people on benefits too. I bet you vote Fine Gale

Jesus no I'm no Fine Gael man, this country is going to **** thanks to that muppett varadkar, and sin fein are no better , this country is gone to ****.
But I wouldn't like my kids to think their father and mother are lazy ****ers with no ambition or drive and end up following suit!! I never said my pay was ****e, it's ****e that I have to pay tax and get out of bed to make it for a fella that won't !
Never out of work a day in my life thank god because I choose not to be.

bizidea

Vulture 1 wrote: »

Bit of a vent here. But it's starting to bother me and I wonder how wide spread it is in our beautiful nanny state. Where I hunt now we have at least 4 guys I know of shooting deer all day everyday. They are all on welfare no visible means of income best of gear clothing guns jeeps. How are they doing it?
I work moderately hard I ve good gear but I could not justify what I see with these guys. How is this fair on those paying taxes why is it allowed carry on. Everyone is on about poaching but these guys must be killing a lot of deer.

You know what they say only fools and horses work and the more I look at it I dont think there is a truer saying

Vegeta

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

those that are hunting for profit will soon be out of a cash stream.

Or they'll drive across the border and trade em illegally or it will spawn a black market for venison. Suggesting restrictions for all hunters because of the actions of a minority just doesn't ever sit right with me. It's the same logic the government use to put restrictions on firearms owners.

If these guys are acting outside the law as it is, then we have all the legislation we need to catch them. Enforcement becomes the answer, but because that's hard work and needs to be funded we shy away from it at times.

Cass

Vegeta wrote: »

Suggesting restrictions for all hunters because of the actions of a minority just doesn't ever sit right with me. It's the same logic the government use to put restrictions on firearms owners.

Amazing that we bitch, moan, and fight to show we are not criminals when the Government decide to punish us for their impotence in dealing with criminal activity, and as you rightly said above, the minute something needs fixing/doing we call for the same restrictions and more Government oversight that we've originally fought against.

The stupidity is strong. :rolleyes:

If these guys are acting outside the law as it is, then we have all the legislation we need to catch them. Enforcement becomes the answer, but because that's hard work and needs to be funded we shy away from it at times.

Exactly.

The other aspect is how big a problem is it, really? Does anyone have any data other than "i seen it", or "he shouldn't have that"?

That attitude stinks of the same bulls**t Varadkar tried on when he claimed welfare benefit fraud was costing the exchequer over €500 million a year when actual figures show it's less than 8% of that and that is still only an estimate.

The same unelected leader than claims welfare frauds are the problem and has a Government full of frauds, thieves and absentee TDs but he;ll distract you with "jangling keys". :mad:

Grizzly 45

Vegeta wrote: »

Or they'll drive across the border and trade em illegally or it will spawn a black market for venison. Suggesting restrictions for all hunters because of the actions of a minority just doesn't ever sit right with me. It's the same logic the government use to put restrictions on firearms owners.

There already is a black market for venison,and its more than likely where lads are unloading the gut shot and badly gutted animals.On the poor in the urban housing estates. There is an exact same thread going on on FB undr Munster deer stalkers...And everyone both here and there are saying the same thing. Tags,increase fines,more NPWS rangers,stiffer sentences, pay possibly X amount of money for an annual deer liscense soley for increasing NPWS staff and anti poaching patrols.A VERY BAD idea IMO,you start saying you want to pay for something,the Govt will be only too happy to take your hard earned money,and give you a shoddy service in return,and charge you more every year.
Like a proper deer census,we need as you rightly pointed out Cass,facts and figures on how much a problem of this is nationwide.There might be hotspots of poaching in some places,and none in others,but until we have an idea of facts&figures,we cant formulate any sort of plan.

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

.........pay possibly X amount of money for an annual deer liscense soley for increasing NPWS staff and anti poaching patrols.A VERY BAD idea IMO,you start saying you want to pay for something,the Govt will be only too happy to take your hard earned money,...........

If only there were, say, €6,000,000 per year coming in from some revenue source that could go towards financing such departments.

Think people.

Where would we get €18,000,000 every 3 YEARS???????????????????

garv123

The idea of paying for a licence mentioned on facebook is an awful one imo.

Start at €100, how much will it be in 4/5 years time? And people really think the government would spent the money on anti poaching..

You've the sunny day shooters saying they'd happily pay it and that they have their freezers full for the year after shooting 2 deer.
Most lads would be kicked out of a place if they told the farmer they wouldn't shoot any more deer for them.

Funny that lads winge and b!itch about the amount of deer certain people shoot, but yet want to be part of organisations where the top tables shoot into the thousands yearly between them, and sell them all to the game dealers..

Some lads are just in cuckoo land.

Cass

There is a "trick" in politics (in all its forms). Accuse others of your own actions to distract them from what you are doing.

dto001

The IFA are going to wade in to this soon.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/rural-crime/farmers-lives-endangered-by-illegal-deer-poaching-38767297.html

Grizzly 45

"If you see a 308 rifle fired at 100 metres, it'll open up a hole in the ground the same as a mini digger. It's scary stuff."

Well,that ammo would save a fierce load of work for me laying some new pipes around here.:rolleyes:
This kind of fukwitted hyperboyle and ****witted article and exegerrations,[proably by an anti farmer],as if your cow get hit by one of these .308 depleted uranium "Nukk em" rounds,you will notice it alright,as it will be very dead in the field with half of it missing due to it being vapourised from the round impacting it.

You'd wonder what is the actual thought processes going on entirely in the whole Irish establishments dealing with deer hunting these days.

Coilte "one deer is too many in a Coilte let!"[remember that famous statement from officaldom?]

Farmers
" Shoot as many of dem feckers off me land.There atein me silage and bucking the cows.an wrecking the fences.Poachers?Shure they are doin me a favour...[Later ] Jaysus me tractor,quad,and everythin else was nicked,it was dem poaching lads spying out me farm.The Gaurds must DOSOMTHING to stop this happenin".
IFA
"We have serious reports from our members of being robbed by poaching gangs,and their cows have been shot by poaching gangs equipped with special forces weaponary,that can blast holes 2miles across their farms..This is of serious concern to our members,annd we know all about guns too,as we have the largest group of gun owners in Ireland...So there.

NPWS
"well we really dont know jack,because we have no idea on how large/small the national deer herd actually is,and we haven't the money really to [a] investigate crimes like this properly Pay our college trained rangers a pittance for their degree qualifications,or for Govt and unionised mandated anti social hours payments.If people could poach Mon/Fri9to 5[excluding lunch and tea break time] We could be of assistance.Meantime we suggest further berauracratic paperwork to sort this out?

Irish deer management forum
"Well after our last meeting last year,we formed a sub comittee of a sub comittee,to discuss further training at 1000 euros a pop of deer stalkers and to strongly urge all parties to adapt our new app and tagging system downloadable,with many glitches onto their laptops,pda or phone to mark where deer are shot.At a price of 500 euros per download it is indeed value for money,as are the 300 euro DNA kits and training courses we mandate all stalkers do to collect DNA samples for our research."

Gardai
"Fuk this!!MORE work,caused by these feckin chancers...any chance of some overtime Sarge?"

Politicos
"Them deer are a threat to motorists!I tell you , there have been a fierce amount of accidents in my constituency,where only yesterday a herd of deers jumped out on the road to Mountfeckim and caused carnage they did to Mrs Looneys car ! The Govt MUST do somthing to stop this scourge.They should send in helicopter gunships and strafe the herds in our forests!



Poachers
"Dont give a flying FK quite frankly! Shure they want deer off their land ,I'm gettin 1.75 per kilo for necked ones...Life is grand!"

Deer stalking associations
"Can we screw money out of our members selling them courses that we got the Govt to make OURS the only acceptable one,after we started losing revenue in our original mandate,and are now trying some mission creep?"

Irish deer stalkers
"Lets offer to pay 100 euros for our FREE liscenses and FREE shooting to a goverment who shouldnt be in charge of a childs piggy bank,not to mind a nations finances,and yeah lets buy tags as well,because its so successful in the USA,but NO other EU country uses them ,in the vain hope that they wil dedicate our monies into combating poaching!:(
Oh and lets tax the fuk out of any shooters coming here to avail of our FREE shooting,and them leaving money in the local economy...Feccking foreginers!"

Have I missed anyone?No wonder we are goosed,and until everyone starts getting their collective act together into one act,so will it ever remain.


I feel better now getting that off my chest!:D

tudderone

There was a program on the english stations about the lunacy of train lines, motorways etc grinding to a halt over copper cable thieves. The tea-leaves were going into scrapyards with the stolen copper cabling and were getting paid cash into the hand no questions asked.

Then the laws were changed, every scrappy has a monitored camera, and they are monitored by the police, they are no longer allowed to pay cash, but only transfer money into a uk bank account, and the reg numbers of the cars and vans are taken. In addition, if the scrapyard owner is caught with stolen stuff, he is jailed, one lad getting six months when cable was found that had been swiped off a railway signalling system.

So this poaching could be stamped out if the ptb wanted to do it here.

kunekunesika

Grizzly,
You forgot the deer lovers, who want all the surplus deer collected and moved to the phoenix Park. Once there, they can be put on family planning courses and road safety courses!

Other than that, I don't think you missed anyone.

tudderone

kunekunesika wrote: »

Grizzly,
You forgot the deer lovers, who want all the surplus deer collected and moved to the phoenix Park. Once there, they can be put on family planning courses and road safety courses!

Other than that, I don't think you missed anyone.

The unemployed could be given jobs putting condoms on the the stags ! Win-win !

ayagerard

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

"If you see a 308 rifle fired at 100 metres, it'll open up a hole in the ground the same as a mini digger. It's scary stuff."

Well,that ammo would save a fierce load of work for me laying some new pipes around here.:rolleyes:
This kind of fukwitted hyperboyle and ****witted article and exegerrations,[proably by an anti farmer],as if your cow get hit by one of these .308 depleted uranium "Nukk em" rounds,you will notice it alright,as it will be very dead in the field with half of it missing due to it being vapourised from the round impacting it.

You'd wonder what is the actual thought processes going on entirely in the whole Irish establishments dealing with deer hunting these days.

Coilte "one deer is too many in a Coilte let!"[remember that famous statement from officaldom?]

Farmers
" Shoot as many of dem feckers off me land.There atein me silage and bucking the cows.an wrecking the fences.Poachers?Shure they are doin me a favour...[Later ] Jaysus me tractor,quad,and everythin else was nicked,it was dem poaching lads spying out me farm.The Gaurds must DOSOMTHING to stop this happenin".
IFA
"We have serious reports from our members of being robbed by poaching gangs,and their cows have been shot by poaching gangs equipped with special forces weaponary,that can blast holes 2miles across their farms..This is of serious concern to our members,annd we know all about guns too,as we have the largest group of gun owners in Ireland...So there.

NPWS
"well we really dont know jack,because we have no idea on how large/small the national deer herd actually is,and we haven't the money really to [a] investigate crimes like this properly Pay our college trained rangers a pittance for their degree qualifications,or for Govt and unionised mandated anti social hours payments.If people could poach Mon/Fri9to 5[excluding lunch and tea break time] We could be of assistance.Meantime we suggest further berauracratic paperwork to sort this out?

Irish deer management forum
"Well after our last meeting last year,we formed a sub comittee of a sub comittee,to discuss further training at 1000 euros a pop of deer stalkers and to strongly urge all parties to adapt our new app and tagging system downloadable,with many glitches onto their laptops,pda or phone to mark where deer are shot.At a price of 500 euros per download it is indeed value for money,as are the 300 euro DNA kits and training courses we mandate all stalkers do to collect DNA samples for our research."

Gardai
"Fuk this!!MORE work,caused by these feckin chancers...any chance of some overtime Sarge?"

Politicos
"Them deer are a threat to motorists!I tell you , there have been a fierce amount of accidents in my constituency,where only yesterday a herd of deers jumped out on the road to Mountfeckim and caused carnage they did to Mrs Looneys car ! The Govt MUST do somthing to stop this scourge.They should send in helicopter gunships and strafe the herds in our forests!



Poachers
"Dont give a flying FK quite frankly! Shure they want deer off their land ,I'm gettin 1.75 per kilo for necked ones...Life is grand!"

Deer stalking associations
"Can we screw money out of our members selling them courses that we got the Govt to make OURS the only acceptable one,after we started losing revenue in our original mandate,and are now trying some mission creep?"

Irish deer stalkers
"Lets offer to pay 100 euros for our FREE liscenses and FREE shooting to a goverment who shouldnt be in charge of a childs piggy bank,not to mind a nations finances,and yeah lets buy tags as well,because its so successful in the USA,but NO other EU country uses them ,in the vain hope that they wil dedicate our monies into combating poaching!:(
Oh and lets tax the fuk out of any shooters coming here to avail of our FREE shooting,and them leaving money in the local economy...Feccking foreginers!"

Have I missed anyone?No wonder we are goosed,and until everyone starts getting their collective act together into one act,so will it ever remain.


I feel better now getting that off my chest!:D

well you wont sleep at all well to night grizzly, your head will be too light on the pillow, with all that weight of your shoulders! the balance will be all wrong
but i agree with every thing you said above and every party above are only looking at this from one of two perspectives
1 how can we make money out of this ie what can we sell
2 haven't we enough of a work load without this aren't we doing to much as it is. no over time under funded under staffed haven't time now corrie is on in 10 minutes ,and who will actually notice ,
if you could find some link in the chain of command that was accountable from the ground all the way to the ( A) minister you would have found something very precious if not nonexistent there is no accountability for any thing in this country if you are employed by the state in a political or managerial capacity all that happens if you fu##up, ie you get caught ??? you get moved to a different department or get promoted no one ever hears any more about it wance the dust settles money ?????????? makes it all what it is

Grizzly 45

tudderone wrote: »

There was a program on the english stations about the lunacy of train lines, motorways etc grinding to a halt over copper cable thieves. The tea-leaves were going into scrapyards with the stolen copper cabling and were getting paid cash into the hand no questions asked.

Then the laws were changed, every scrappy has a monitored camera, and they are monitored by the police, they are no longer allowed to pay cash, but only transfer money into a uk bank account, and the reg numbers of the cars and vans are taken. In addition, if the scrapyard owner is caught with stolen stuff, he is jailed, one lad getting six months when cable was found that had been swiped off a railway signalling system.

So this poaching could be stamped out if the ptb wanted to do it here.

This is the one major problem here the "Aisey money" aspect to this. Game dealers buy in no questions asked,so long as they can fill the bookwork,easily done by our "legal poachers" these days.How,or where they are selling the carcasses to is another massive question,as New Zealand can and has flooded the European market with venison,which is now a by product from the NZ deer farming,as they want the "Velvet" off the stags antlers for Chinese folk medicine.It has got to be lucrative,if dodgy game dealers can put aside 20 grand in cash to pay any maximum dist court fine,as a "busisness expense" and then proably try and claim it off revenue as well.

The problems are;
1]Too much money on the poaching side.They are making top money here at 1.75+/- a kilo too. [What is a GD selling this out at too is a good question]

2] Too little money on the NPWS/AGS/ligit shooters side,as well as manpower to deal with it and no authorithy for the shooter on the ground to deal with it either.

3] Farmers/Coilte see them as vermin and one deer is one too many.

4]Hunters and their orgs,have no real cohesive ,united plan on how to deal with this problem,and doesnt involve stitching their members up for money for courses or tags or giving the Govt more free money for nothing. That's what Global warming emergency kids are for.:p

ayagerard

tudderone wrote: »

The unemployed could be given jobs putting condoms on the the stags ! Win-win !

at least then they would be doing something to earn their crust, realisticky their would be benefits from some form of a policy as they could form a picture regarding the numbers of national herd ,after some training modules they could differentiate between sika and fallow and the reds would be easy, extra man -woman power to help rangers yes i can see a lot of benefits here allwrite would also shorten the ques at the post office especially during warmer weather

ayagerard

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

This is the one major problem here the "Aisey money" aspect to this. Game dealers buy in no questions asked,

The problems are;
1]Too much money on the poaching side.They are making top money here at 1.75+/- a kilo too. [What is a GD selling this out at too is a good question]
.:p

https://www.coopershill.com/index.html

look at the prices in the link above click on menu then venison
now if i am supplying 2-5 restaurants with a supply of week old aged fresh venison , to their demand for cash no game dealer middle man. why would i be
looking to register for vat or declare an income, i would be available to attend the dole office at there request at any time , fresh is 52 weeks a year
you can trace beef back to the farm??????theoretically what traceability is on wild venison. again farmed mabe ??

cookimonster

I am under no illusion that there may be a few restaurants dealing in illegal venison. But this is very rare and isolated incidents.
As someone who works in the trade, I can categorically tell you that the inspection process and regime that is in place makes the selling of unregistered meat extremely risky for any food buisness here. The sale of venison on menus all year is not done as its seen as a seasonal commodity.

As I have said before, the main market for poached venison is out the back door to the ordinary punter.

The main flaw in the whole scheme of things is the collection point system. It is here were there is potential for wrong doing. Unregistered hunters dropping off meat to 'so called' collection points were the meat is registered by a secound party and sent off to the game dealer with appropriate documentation.

Rows Grower

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/rural-life/farmers-in-west-tipperary-fear-potential-livestock-losses-from-stray-bullets-as-deer-poachers-leave-carnage-in-their-wake-38899692.html

ZiabR

Shocking stuff really. What if anything can be done?

solarwinds

ZiabR wrote: »

Shocking stuff really. What if anything can be done?

It would not surprise me in the least if some unnamed official in some unknown dept. is at this very minute drafting legislation to tackle this problem.
It will probably be in the guise of banning all forms of legal hunting activity to combat this criminality and save the deer.
Nothing surprises me anymore, if you had from now to eternity you could not even dream up some the hair brained incompetent solutions these guys come up with and get away with.