Vulture 1 wrote: »

Bit of a vent here. But it's starting to bother me and I wonder how wide spread it is in our beautiful nanny state. Where I hunt now we have at least 4 guys I know of shooting deer all day everyday. They are all on welfare no visible means of income best of gear clothing guns jeeps. How are they doing it?
I work moderately hard I ve good gear but I could not justify what I see with these guys. How is this fair on those paying taxes why is it allowed carry on. Everyone is on about poaching but these guys must be killing a lot of deer.

It makes you wonder, I've a nice permission with lots of deer but Its at the risk of being shot or having my jeep done in or getting the head kicked off me that I could go there, none of the cun** work but spend day and night trespassing, guards won't do **** all, prob not there fault cos they haven't the resources, but quick to come to my door to check all is in order. You'd wonder would the CAB or someone have any interest in these poor dole men with the best of every thing. Doesn't add up

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Question of pirorities for AGS and CAB...
Whats doing more damage to Irish society? Narco gangs diddling millions from the State and importing millions of euros of drugs and full auto firearms,with para military involvement,and all the ancillary crime that comes with it?

Or

Joe Doley & Co making a few extra thousand on the QT shooting deer?With ,in many cases the blind eye turned by farmers,NPWS,AGS,etc,as the opinion seems to be "Too many of dem feckers about anyway! Atein me grass and plantation o young trees an wreckin me fences!":rolleyes:

So take a WAG where the Govts,the Cheif comissioner,the CAB and Revenue and minister for Justice pirorities will be?
Joe D & Co are easier to sort out mind.All you do is take the "aisey money" out of the equation,by banning wild deer sales for five years to Irish game dealers,and they will move onto the next aisey money racket.
Simples really.

Ya at the end of the day it's all about the money. As you say ban the sale of it simples. Then again when you see two venison steaks on sale in the market for 12 Euro it will never stop because the money is too handy on all sides.

They are doing trojan work 24/7 compared to lads looking for a set of antlers to put above the flatscreen tv above the stove

Only good deer is ....venison

Watch what happened when they put wolves back into Yellowstone :




We don't need wolves here, have guns and they be shooting bullets. Ideal for venison production

Vulture 1 wrote: »

I know a blind eye is being shown to this but I m from a farming background and I know most farmers are of the opinion that the only good deer is a dead deer. But what farming and forestry fail to see is these guys are only shooting bucks the amount of doe shoot is not enough. They shoot all mature animals for weight. No one wins sports shooter has no trophys and deer numbers keep expanding so farmer and foresters are stilldealing with an ever expanding problem. There is no joined up thinking and the only ones gaining are the good for nothing ****s who rape our social systems and our natural resources.

A ban on all Male deer for sale except on licence for estates forestry etc may work better.

Yes your spot on there, weight pays and that's all they care about.we have deer at home and last year I rang a game dealer because we had to cull 4 (they are reds) but he offered me €80 each , my father said he'd rather leave them living than have them shot and sold for that price.

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Yes your spot on there, weight pays and that's all they care about.we have deer at home and last year I rang a game dealer because we had to cull 4 (they are reds) but he offered me €80 each , my father said he'd rather leave them living than have them shot and sold for that price.

And the dealer will make appx 320 /350 per carcass.You are getting a pittance here,compared were you allowed to sell it without a game dealer.

gctest50 wrote: »

They are doing trojan work 24/7 compared to lads looking for a set of antlers to put above the flatscreen tv above the stove

Only good deer is ....venison

Watch what happened when they put wolves back into Yellowstone :

We don't need wolves here, have guns and they be shooting bullets. Ideal for venison production

Yeah,it doesnt mention that the packs are now outside Yellowstone deprading ranchers cattle stocks of yearlings and calves. as well.Wolves like any wild creature will move to a plentiful food supply that is easily obtainable.Why we have urban foxes,and wild boar in cities in Germany. This "noble wolf" can be some delusional ****e too.

Stonehall9 wrote: »

I'd have said 150 an animal was a fair price considering as I said before the stall in the local market in town has a man selling two steaks for 12.50 !!

I think your man was doing you there for Reds, a good Sika stag is worth between €90 to €100 at dealer prices. No producer whether hunter or farmer ever gets the value of the product as seen from the consumers perspective.

I absolutely agree that the 'attitude' of shooting big animals for big pay outs is wrong from a herd management stance. But if you put aside the original topic of the thread- 'hunters on welfare making money etc' I must ask-
'Why do so many of you frown upon the sale of wild venison?'
In the UK it is a viable market/trade/commodity, even Germany allows the sale of venison by hunters. I'd say that per head of population we are only playing at stalking compared to the UK and the amount of venison that goes to market is staggering.
There are loop holes in the system here, but there are always loop holes for people to exploit if they are so inclined. No amount of legislation or ban will stop lads dealing out the back of thier vans etc. But overly strict regs will put venison out of the reach of the ordinary Joe and Josephine Soap who wish to buy legitimately sourced venison.

I dont" frown on it".I despise it,as a lucrative money making racket of a cartel that is encouraging poaching by paying low prices on their raw material,that they then export out of here to appx 100% profits to the EU.As well as aking,if the EU market is being flooded with a byproduct ,actual venison,from the "velvet" industry of commercial deer farming in New Zealand,that has anihalated commercial deer farming in the EU.Where are they making their money to stay in busisness

Whats the point in going off in doing a wild game handling course and butchering course,if you then cant sell as a qualified individual outside the more or less fixed price of the Game dealers?Which you can do in Europe ,on individual sales.

If some GD's can put aside 20 thousand euros,the max of a dist court fine,per annum as a "busisness expense" if they get caught by some sting or whatever with poached deer,and pay it in cash ,and continue on their merry way....you really have to ask yourselves,what the Frup is going on?:mad:

Deer are worth more to me in my freezer, food wise then cash. The average Sika will yield between 20 - 30 adult dinners for 4 of us at home. So over the month thats steaks, mince dishes, stews/pies/casseroles, roasts and various Indian and Oriental dishes. I have more or less replaced any red meat, beef or lamb with venison. I've often served roast vension dressed as beef to unsuspecting guests, while a nicely cooked leg off a calf goes very well with mint sauce..

I will move on a few deer a season which I throw back into my hunting paying for ammo and fuel.

As self emplyed I pay tax in other words I charge vat and pay it back, if I sell my van its part of my company so classed as earnings so again I pay the tax on my own van, but lets not forget I did claim the vat back when I bought it.

So if I was to go and shoot say 20 deer and sold them at 100 euro each thats 2000 euro earnings I have to declare and pay tax on.

Are we getting the point here so if the dealers were to hand the names to revenue someone would have to pay tax on there earnings and if it was someone on social there working so dole stops if they give a mates name he gets hit with the tax bill.

I think that might slow things down a bit.

Just a thought

650gs wrote: »

As self emplyed I pay tax in other words I charge vat and pay it back, if I sell my van its part of my company so classed as earnings so again I pay the tax on my own van, but lets not forget I did claim the vat back when I bought it.

So if I was to go and shoot say 20 deer and sold them at 100 euro each thats 2000 euro earnings I have to declare and pay tax on.

Are we getting the point here so if the dealers were to hand the names to revenue someone would have to pay tax on there earnings and if it was someone on social there working so dole stops if they give a mates name he gets hit with the tax bill.

I think that might slow things down a bit.

Just a thought

Can we say "Data protection act"? And " sharing of personal information with unauthorised 3rd parties."?:rolleyes: Yes, that also includes Govt agencies,witness the PSA card debacle.
The difference between you,me and Joe Doler,is you and me are trying to do things legally and the right way and proably own our own houses and have assets,Joe Doler doesnt have that problem,and never will.Again to govt depts ,this is chump change in the big picture of things. Its a bottom list of pirorities to go bother Joe in his council house for a couple of grand,when you could be pulling down some dodgy scrap merchant or Arthur Daly used car dealer,with a halfway decent asset and property portfolio,where it is in the tens or hundreds of thousands.That and manpower being in short supply.

The solution is again,take the easy money aspect from this and lock down the sales of native carcasses for a few years.Those that hunt for the pot will have enough,those that are hunting for profit will soon be out of a cash stream.

[

QUOTE=meathstevie;111101909]I think you're wrong there Grizzly. It's will within the Department of Social Protection and Revenue's remit to investigate welfare and tax fraud and to take action to identify suspects.

True,

The gathering of personal data by state agencies for a lawful purpose is well within the framework of data protection legislation.

But !You are not under any obligation as a game dealer to report suspicious transactions,as of yet.
Plus I reckon most of these dealers are well aware of the shifty lot supplying them and are cooking the books already on where and whom shot what.

The PSA card imho fell faul of data protection issues because of a lack of specification of it's exact purpose and use and the perceived bandwagon that started to get rolling with all sorts of agencies starting to look for it as a form of ID. Like what's wrong with a good old passport ?

Not only that it was storing too much info on one card that could be accessed by one single reader in the future.Is it any busisness of the revenue office ,about your in grown toenail from your docs records?Would have been a boon for any data theft.

Am I Actually wrote: »

You're definately better off working for peanuts and being treated like ****e for less than you'd get on benefits just so the rich can get richer on your toil & misery

Granted there are benefit spongers out there BUT there are a lot of genuine people on benefits too. I bet you vote Fine Gale

Jesus no I'm no Fine Gael man, this country is going to **** thanks to that muppett varadkar, and sin fein are no better , this country is gone to ****.
But I wouldn't like my kids to think their father and mother are lazy ****ers with no ambition or drive and end up following suit!! I never said my pay was ****e, it's ****e that I have to pay tax and get out of bed to make it for a fella that won't !
Never out of work a day in my life thank god because I choose not to be.