Unpopular Opinions - OP Updated with Threadban List 4/5/21

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not particularly interested in Pride, and don't particularly care if anyone is gay, straight, black, asian, catholic, atheist, vegan, whatever. Has no impact on my life, so I couldn't give a sh/te.

However, as someone who has never attended or even been in the general area of a Pride parade, I do think that user 85603 is dead right in saying that if there are displays, like he has linked to and described, that it of course does nothing to garner respect for the movement at all.

A quick google search gives me many questionable images, however, none of them appear to be from Dublin. My google search for Dublin Pride parades seems to be more in keeping with what I would hope/expect a parade would be like. Wave your flag, make yourself known, sing your songs, etc. without having to be crass or self-absorbed to the point where you are actively turning people against you for being antagonistic to people who may want to support gay rights, but not have to watch someone in chaps with a strap-on drag their partner on a lead.


There are right and wrong ways to present yourself publicly.


EDIT: Also, it portrays a very dated stereotype. I know a gay couple and they're not at all interested in that kind of thing. (although they don't attend Pride, either). You can bet if someone turned up on TV as a gay character, dressed in leather chaps, there'd be uproar over it, yet in (some?) parades it's encouraged that to be gay you have to be into this kinda stuff. As I say, does no one any favours.

it is almost as if gay people are not a homogenous group.

ohnonotgmail

85603 wrote: »

yeah nipple rings really promote understanding and acceptance.

look kids theres a dom leading zur femmy ass bitch around by some nipple rings.

People are being themselves. If you want to accept that then fine. If not then also fine. your understanding and acceptance is not required. what is required is that there is no discrimination against people because of their sexual orientation.

Antares35

Faugheen wrote: »

You're making it out to be this uber-sexual event when it isn't. Just because you didn't say those very words does not mean that is implied because fact is you said 'public bdsm-play' - all you have done is hypersexualise what Pride marches are so yes, it can absolutely be implied that you think it's a big orgy.

Go to a Pride march yourself and you will see that in the grand scheme of things, there is f*ck-all 'public bdsm-play'. The vast, vast majority of the march are lobby groups, inclusive sports teams, corporate floats. It's not full of leather-clad lads with chains and gags in their mouths.

Really good point. Last time I went (2018 I think), there were so many more corporate floats than the pride I remembered from my youth when the biggest deal was an open top bus with a few drag queens on top. It's great to see the big company names taking part

85603

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

People are being themselves. If you want to accept that then fine. If not then also fine. your understanding and acceptance is not required. what is required is that there is no discrimination against people because of their sexual orientation.

its not about me.
you cant promote yourself to the mainstream if you take it too far. parents largely wont accept their kids seeing that. understandably.

i understand that this topic is an issue of debate in that community itself.

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

People are being themselves. If you want to accept that then fine. If not then also fine. your understanding and acceptance is not required. what is required is that there is no discrimination against people because of their sexual orientation.

I don't accept that argument, that 'people are being themselves'. Again, there are right and wrong ways to present yourself in public.

A quick way to be discriminated against, is to portray a stereotype and try to make people uncomfortable by deliberately being overly sexual in a public space. Not the right place or time and damages your image more than it helps it.

All you ever hear about is men 'crying' about being told not to cry as children :rolleyes:

And the argument for getting women into Stem...'well they wouldn't want to be a Binman'.

Well actually a Binman is not a bad job...but women are also conditioned not to take certain jobs. Anyone could be a landscaper or paint and decorator...anything etc. But it's not even thought of as a career option because it's not encouraged. Not that it's intentional but it's just not thought of as an option.

And don't get me started on the original Disney movies .. most of the bad guys are women....

growleaves

Olivia2 wrote: »

All you ever hear about is men 'crying' about being told not to cry as children :rolleyes:

And the argument for getting women into Stem...'well they wouldn't want to be a Binman'.

Well actually a Binman is not a bad job...but women are also conditioned not to take certain jobs. Anyone could be a landscaper or paint and decorator...anything etc. But it's not even thought of as a career option because it's not encouraged. Not that it's intentional but it's just not thought of as an option.

And don't get me started on the original Disney movies .. most of the bad guys are women....

Are you contemplating a career move into rubbish collection?

Stem is where there is a lot of money and prestige hence why it has become a focus of equality.

joeguevara

Olivia2 wrote: »

All you ever hear about is men 'crying' about being told not to cry as children :rolleyes:

And the argument for getting women into Stem...'well they wouldn't want to be a Binman'.

Well actually a Binman is not a bad job...but women are also conditioned not to take certain jobs. Anyone could be a landscaper or paint and decorator...anything etc. But it's not even thought of as a career option because it's not encouraged. Not that it's intentional but it's just not thought of as an option.

And don't get me started on the original Disney movies .. most of the bad guys are women....

Never heard anyone crying about being told not to cry as kids. Either male or female.

And as for the Disney thing. At first thought, thought it could be true as Snow White, Alice and wonderland etc snap. However went through them and the originals are something like Total including henchmen:

Female villains: 12

Male villains: 18.

And as for the newer ones is males about 80%. My unpopular opinion is how the world is so hard for guys. Even read an article today about a guy being happy is considered unattractive. Yes I’m a guy. Yes sometimes life is tough. But it’s tough for everybody!

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

Never heard anyone crying about being told not to cry as kids. Either male or female.

And as for the Disney thing. At first thought, thought it could be true as Snow White, Alice and wonderland etc snap. However went through them and the originals are something like Total including henchmen:

Female villains: 12

Male villains: 18.

And as for the newer ones is males about 80%. My unpopular opinion is how the world is so hard for guys. Even read an article today about a guy being happy is considered unattractive. Yes I’m a guy. Yes sometimes life is tough. But it’s tough for everybody!

There is a 'thing' about boys being told not to cry so they can't express emotions properly when they're older and how it effects them later. I think it's BS. I was told not to cry often as a child too and I remember being proud I didn't cry when I fell in the school yard. I also remember an obnoxious little **** who use to cry every time he didnt get his own way.

Can you name them? The Disney characters? Could be mainly the films I saw but the majority of films directed at me from Disney as a child had female antagonists. Mostly older unnatractive or losing their looks.

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

Are you contemplating a career move into rubbish collection?

Stem is where there is a lot of money and prestige hence why it has become a focus of equality.

I might be. Money isn't everything.

Why would anyone be focussing women towards better paying jobs if there is 'no such thing' as a pay gap or so I've been told?

joeguevara

Olivia2 wrote: »

I might be. Money isn't everything.

Why would anyone be focussing women towards better paying jobs if there is 'no such thing' as a pay gap or so I've been told?

Your basic preface that because refuse collection is unglamorous its badly paid. Do you know what the remuneration is? https://mywage.org/ireland/career/ireland-role-pay/ireland-garbage-and-recycling-collectors

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

Your basic preface that because refuse collection is unglamorous its badly paid. Do you know what the remuneration is? https://mywage.org/ireland/career/ireland-role-pay/ireland-garbage-and-recycling-collectors

No it wasn't MY basic preface. I am aware that it's a good job. It's why it was one I mentioned. I've seen that described as a job 'women won't do' in response to arguments about the encouragement of stem and used as an argument that women see themselves as too good for these jobs.

My preface was that women will do these jobs but they are not encouraged at all to do them or to even consider it as an option. I would never have thought to apply for a job like that because ive been conditioned to believe it's not a job for women though I'd be perfectly capable and would be fine with a job like that.

joeguevara

Olivia2 wrote: »

No it wasn't MY basic preface. I am aware that it's a good job. It's why it was one I mentioned. I've seen that described as a job 'women won't do' in response to arguments about the encouragement of stem and used as an argument that women see themselves as too good for these jobs.

My preface was that women will do these jobs but they are not encouraged at all to do them or to even consider it as an option. I would never have thought to apply for a job like that because ive been conditioned to believe it's not a job for women though I'd be perfectly capable and would be fine with a job like that.

Ah ok. Apologies for misunderstanding. I have two close friends who both work in refuse collection. One for the council and one for a private company. Neither were encouraged to become them.

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

Ah ok. Apologies for misunderstanding. I have two close friends who both work in refuse collection. One for the council and one for a private company. Neither were encouraged to become them.

Are they women?

I'm not saying it's a conscious thing done on purpose by anyone but stem is so why not other jobs.

growleaves

Olivia2 wrote: »

I might be. Money isn't everything.

Why would anyone be focussing women towards better paying jobs if there is 'no such thing' as a pay gap or so I've been told?

People talk past each other when it comes to this pay gap debate.

There's no underpaying of women as women, but if women don't choose the best-paying professions in aggregate they do end up with less money by default.

Whether you consider that a gap that needs to bridged will depend on your assumptions. But you've said money isn't everything, I agree.

Good luck in your binman job.

joeguevara

Olivia2 wrote: »

Are they women?

I'm not saying it's a conscious thing done on purpose by anyone but stem is so why not other jobs.

Am I missing something about your focus on STEM? Women are vastly under represented in the sector and recruitment is more focused on men. There are initiatives to tackle this but not in detriment to other areas. https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/education/placing-gender-equity-in-stem-on-the-radar-1.3109286%3fmode=amp

growleaves

growleaves wrote: »

People talk past each other when it comes to this pay gap debate.

There's no underpaying of women as women, but if women don't choose the best-paying professions in aggregate they do end up with less money by default.

Whether you consider that a gap that needs to bridged will depend on your assumptions. But you've said money isn't everything, I agree.

Good luck in your binman job.

I'm saying from my experience it never occurred to me to ever have the possibility or choice to do certain jobs that I would be well capable of. That is the point I'm making.

What does 'good luck in your binman job' even mean?

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

Am I missing something about your focus on STEM? Women are vastly under represented in the sector and recruitment is more focused on men. There are initiatives to tackle this but not in detriment to other areas. https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/education/placing-gender-equity-in-stem-on-the-radar-1.3109286%3fmode=amp

Why isn't it a focus on the many jobs that women can also do but are raised to believe are 'mens jobs'?

I'm not saying it's anyone's fault...just saying it exists. That growing up...it's not even a consideration and it's not that women think they are too good for those jobs or incapable...it's stereotypes of the roles for men and women in society.

joeguevara

Olivia2 wrote: »

Why isn't it a focus on the many jobs that women can also do but are raised to believe are 'mens jobs'?

I'm not saying it's anyone's fault...just saying it exists. That growing up...it's not even a consideration and it's not that women think they are too good for those jobs or incapable...it's stereotypes of the roles for men and women in society.

Is it possible that you chose bin man as an example to prove your argument without knowing of the considerable campaigns to recruit females into the sector.

https://www.fswaste.co.uk/2018/03/women-waste-industry-international-womens-day-2018/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/you-too-can-be-a-dustman-ladies-just-like-the-old-man-kzzmfbb3g79

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

Is it possible that you chose bin man as an example to prove your argument without knowing of the considerable campaigns to recruit females into the sector.

https://www.fswaste.co.uk/2018/03/women-waste-industry-international-womens-day-2018/

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/you-too-can-be-a-dustman-ladies-just-like-the-old-man-kzzmfbb3g79

Well then it's good to know they're working on it so obviously it is a thing.

Shame I missed the boat or the bin lorry

Olivia2

Olivia2 wrote: »

All you ever hear about is men 'crying' about being told not to cry as children :rolleyes:

"if you don't stop crying, I'll give you something to cry about!"

joeguevara

Olivia2 wrote: »

Well then it's good to know they're working on it so obviously it is a thing.

Shame I missed the boat or the bin lorry

If It’s something you want to do then it’s never too late.

ohnonotgmail

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't accept that argument, that 'people are being themselves'. Again, there are right and wrong ways to present yourself in public.

A quick way to be discriminated against, is to portray a stereotype and try to make people uncomfortable by deliberately being overly sexual in a public space. Not the right place or time and damages your image more than it helps it.

Right according to who? You?

joeguevara

Olivia2 wrote: »

There is a 'thing' about boys being told not to cry so they can't express emotions properly when they're older and how it effects them later. I think it's BS. I was told not to cry often as a child too and I remember being proud I didn't cry when I fell in the school yard. I also remember an obnoxious little **** who use to cry every time he didnt get his own way.

Can you name them? The Disney characters? Could be mainly the films I saw but the majority of films directed at me from Disney as a child had female antagonists. Mostly older unnatractive or losing their looks.

Not my research but here you go:

s that really the case? Let’s see…

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)— Queen Grimhilde; okay, that’s one…
Pinocchio (1940) — All four (or five if you count Gideon) villains are male.
Fantasia (1940) — Anthology film; no villains, unless you count that big demon.
Dumbo (1941) — No clear villains.
Bambi (1942) — No villains, unless you count the male hunter who shot Bambi’s mom.
Saludos Amigos (1942) — No villains, that I can remember.
The Three Caballeros (1944) — Live action-animated anthology film; no villains.
Make Mine Music (1946) — Another anthology film. No villains except the presumably male Wolf in the short film “Peter and the Wolf”.
Song of the South (1946) — Live-action/animated film. Sort of anthology film with no real villains unless you count Br’er Fox, who is male.
Fun and Fancy Free (1947) — 2 films in one: “Bongo” and “Mickey and the Beanstalk”; the first has a male rival, the second a male giant.
Melody Time (1948) — Live action/animated. Yet another anthology film with none of the segments having any real villains.
The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad (1949) — The villain is a male phantom (who is possibly Brom Bones playing a prank).
Cinderella (1950) — Finally, another villainess! This is 13 years since the last woman villain, though, so I guess this scuttles your premise, but we’ll go on a bit longer.
Alice in Wonderland (1951) — The Red Queen counts as a villain, I suppose…
Peter Pan (1953) — The villain is male.
Lady and the Tramp (1955) — The biggest villain is a rat, whose sex is undetermined.
Sleeping Beauty (1959) — Villainess, but now we’re 22 years into Disney movies.
One Hundred and One Dalmatians (1961) — Wow, two in a row!
The Sword in the Stone (1963) — One of the villains is female, so I guess that makes three in a row.
The Jungle Book (1967) — The streak is broken.
So, that’s six out of twenty movies, and only one of them was in the early days of Disney.

Mad_maxx

Olivia2 wrote: »

There is a 'thing' about boys being told not to cry so they can't express emotions properly when they're older and how it effects them later. I think it's BS. I was told not to cry often as a child too and I remember being proud I didn't cry when I fell in the school yard. I also remember an obnoxious little **** who use to cry every time he didnt get his own way.

Can you name them? The Disney characters? Could be mainly the films I saw but the majority of films directed at me from Disney as a child had female antagonists. Mostly older unnatractive or losing their looks.

Today's world is seriously lacking stoicism, it's actually viewed as a bad thing

I tell my five year old boy that " we don't cry over little things "

I mean can't find a spoon at tea or a Teddy missing etc , if he has a fall and cuts his knee ,that's different

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Right according to who? You?

No, my posting here represents someone who is not me. :rolleyes:


Very clever.

B.A._Baracus

Re: gay pride.
I think its a load of bollocks. Like, is most of it just
virtue signalling?

Its 2021 and I like to think I am a modern man. I don't care if someone is gay, bi, trans etc. I don't care. But, for one example, so many companies are jumping on the band wagon I find. Even in my job we had some guest speaker for a meeting and I couldn't care. Most people didn't log in to it. I did briefly and I was like screw this.

To be honest, isn't this whole pride thing contradictory?
Life is a rat race. Its dog eat dog. We're all out for ourselves. Your average person would stab you in the back if thought they would get something out of it. Yet pride? Yaaaaaaay! .... Its mad lol.

But... sadly imo saying anything but "I love pride!" In the more recent world seems to warrant harsh replies so I fully expect that.

McGinniesta

People are overrated and annoy me enormously.

Potential-Monke

McGinniesta wrote: »

People are overrated and annoy me enormously.

I think that's becoming a popular one!

Dank Janniels

Unpopular Opinion- I support Nphet and think we should be cautious and do what they are saying re the easing of lockdown!