The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

gormdubhgorm

blanch152 wrote: »

How come neither Frank nor yourself knew that Intersports are on the front of the Mayo jersey?

To busy focused on Dublin I suppose -


All

Ireland

Greats

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is what it really comes down to the funding is not the issue with many of the posters - merely a smokescreen:

to throw dirt at dublin
Give the players no credit

Mayomagic has already let slip that Kerry created a 'culture' of winning despite Dublin's advantages.

Culture is nice code for saying top class managment and players without saying it outright.

Mayomagic would never have said Dublin have created a 'culture' - because that would imply orgainsation, structure, planning, great players and so on.

In the last post s/he describes Dublin as 'flat track bullies' but there is an inherant contradiction in this it assumes that other teams are weak and are being trampled all-over.
Dublin have not won the u20, minor, league, O'Byrne in football this year.
Dublin have not won a hurling league since 2011
Dublin have not won a leinster hurling title since 2013

Many of Dublin's AI's have been won my not only skill, but tactical nous and mental strength.
Mayomagic knows this but does not focus on it because it will reveal the failings of his/her own county.
There has been no heaves similar to the Rochford one in Dublin in GAA driven by players

It is people like MayoMagic who scream that football needs to be 'fixed'.
But it seems that it is only because it is Dublin.
It is OK when Kerry do it.

It is OK when Kilkenny dominate hurling and go for a five in a row in 2010 and wallop teams like waterford in 2008
I assume if I trawl through Mayomagic posts at that period I will see a real concern for the state of hurling?
Or was it praise for a great team and a great manager?

The funding is the reason they dont get credit. It isnt a smokescreen it is the key point. They didnt have the funding and werent competitve. They arent going to get the credit that another team who didnt have the funding and dominated anyway got. That is common sense.

Now you are redefining what the word culture means too.

As for tactical nous, tactics work a lot better when you have 20+ elite players carrying them out. The tactic of running on a load of top class subs to drive on when the opposition are tiring isnt really a tactic is it? It is more just brute force. As harry redknapp said when he was asked why he done so well at spurs - simple, I just had top quality players at spurs.

Your snipes at mayo dont bother me.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The funding is the reason they dont get credit. It isnt a smokescreen it is the key point. They didnt have the funding and werent competitve. They arent going to get the credit that another team who didnt have the funding and dominated anyway got. That is common sense.

Now you are redefining what the word culture means too.

As for tactical nous, tactics work a lot better when you have 20+ elite players carrying them out. The tactic of running on a load of top class subs to drive on when the opposition are tiring isnt really a tactic is it? It is more just brute force.

Your repeated snipes at mayo dont bother me.

The subs didn't come on the last day until after the 12 minutes of the second half. What is the excuse for that?

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

The subs didn't come on the last day until after the 12 minutes of the second half. What is the excuse for that?

There are about 17 million of them...

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why would it be asked of kerry, when they have an average population? Kilkenny even less than the average. That means the majority of counties could reproduce what they did. How can anyone reproduce what dublin are doing?

Maybe it is because it takes exceptional players and/or an exceptional manager?

Dwyer - lifted Kildare/Wicklow/Kerry

Fitzy - lifted Wexford

McGrath - lifted fermanagh/down

Cody - lifted Kilkenny

Harte - lifted Tryone

Heffo- lifted Dublin

McGee -lifted Ofally

McGunnniess - lifted Donegal


And of course maybe the greatest of them all -

Gavin - lifted dublin BOTH at u21 level and senior level - which shows a correlation with the same group of players

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Maybe it is because it takes exceptional players and/or an exceptional manager?

Dwyer - lifted Kildare/Wicklow/Kerry

Fitzy - lifted Wexford

McGrath - lifted fermanagh/down

Cody - lifted Kilkenny

Harte - lifted Tryone

Heffo- lifted Dublin

McGee -lifted Ofally

McGunnniess - lifted Donegal


And of course maybe the greatest of them all -

Gavin - lifted dublin BOTH at u21 level and senior level - which shows a correlation with the same group of players

Maybe exceptional managers are there but cant really do a whole pile when the thing is completely biased in someone elses favour.
If all you need is an exceptional manager then, again, why didnt you do that instead of begging for cash? Why didnt the bluewave just have one line in it - appoint an exceptional manager.
Simply hand back all the money if that is the case. Or better yet, split in two and appoint two exceptional managers... Case closed

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

As for tactical nous, tactics work a lot better when you have 20+ elite players carrying them out. The tactic of running on a load of top class subs to drive on when the opposition are tiring isnt really a tactic is it? It is more just brute force. .

How do you explain how Dwyer lifted Wicklow and McGrath lifted Fermanagh then?
Both of those managers had thier teams over-performing with differing tactics.

The most famous one of them is Jim McG who got Donegal to over achieve not a spectacular bunch of players by any means.
How did he do this through innovation.

How did Roscommon win Connacht this year are you saying that Mayo are the defacto third team in the province as Roscommon have more elite players?

It is funny how you managed to avoid given Dublin praise and using the praise 'elite palyers' in a pejorative sense.
That is amusing in fairness.

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

How do you explain how Dwyer lifted Wicklow and McGrath lifted Fermanagh then?
Both of those managers had thier teams over-performing with differing tactics.

The most famous one of them is Jim McG who got Donegal to over achieve not a spectacular bunch of players by any means.
How did he do this through innovation.

How did Roscommon win Connacht this year are you saying that Mayo are the defacto third team in the province as Roscommon have more elite players?

Lifted them to what? Are you actually trying to compare wicklow winning a few games at home to dublin being able to win nothing before investment to winning 6 all irelands in 8 years post investment?

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Maybe exceptional managers are there but cant really do a whole pile when the thing is completely biased in someone elses favour.
If all you need is an exceptional manager then, again, why didnt you do that instead of begging for cash? Why didnt the bluewave just have one line in it - appoint an exceptional manager.
Simply hand back all the money if that is the case. Or better yet, split in two and appoint two exceptional managers... Case closed

OK so I have got you down to a maybe managers make a difference now,
Jim McGuinness won an AI beating the mighty Dubs and Magic Mayo ro an AI win

Managers are obviously critiacal to a teams success as you well know.

Again back to the funding = success myth


Mullaninaghta beat Kilmacud Crokes this year.
Kilmacud are team who O'Rourke says have six players who would get into any county team , excluding Mannion

Rathnew beat Vincents in 2017

Brigids of Roscommon beat an extremely strong Ballymun team in 2013.

Corofin from Galway has won three out of the last four AI's

All this has happened in recent years with all the massive funding.
It just makes a farce of the funding argument.

Funding = automatic success in GAA

It is a myth.

MayoAreMagic

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OK so I have got you down to a maybe managers make a difference now,
Jim McGuinness won an AI beating the mighty Dubs and Magic Mayo ro an AI win

Managers are obviously critiacal to a teams success as you well know.

Again back to the funding = success myth


Mullaninaghta beat Kilmacud Crokes this year.
Kilmacud are team who O'Rourke says have six players who would get into any county team , excluding Mannion

Rathnew beat Vincents in 2017

Brigids of Roscommon beat an extremely strong Ballymun team in 2013.

Corofin from Galway has won three out of the last four AI's

All this has happened in recent years with all the massive funding.
It just makes a farce of the funding argument.
Funding = success in GAA

So dublin can be split then. Just appoint two exceptional managers... jim mcguinnes is actually free at the minute...

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Lifted them to what? Are you actually trying to compare wicklow winning a few games at home to dublin being able to win nothing before investment to winning 6 all irelands in 8 years post investment?

It is all relative to thier standard those were tremendous achievements for Wicklow.

Turlogh O'Briens Carlow Rising is another one great achievements in league and championship

Pete McGrath got Fermanagh to an amazing run to the latter stages of the championship massive achievement

Donegal's transformation under Jim McG massive achievement.

Success for counties is all relative - counties know when they are underachieving Cork div 3 Meath Div 2 - Galway not making use of thier forwards and Corogin

At the moment Dublin are overachieving as they are exceptional - but the reality is that Dublin should be winning 2/3 AI's a decade given thier population alone.
That is the mean level to me it is similar to other great football counties era's but Dublin are surpassing that because of overall greatness of players and management.

gormdubhgorm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So dublin can be split then. Just appoint two exceptional managers... jim mcguinnes is actually free at the minute...

Jim Mc would not suit Dublin's style.
Jayo or Dessie would be the men to get

But then you would end up being even more annoyed.
You would set your keyboard on fire if there was a Dublin North v Dublin South AI final.

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Simply hand back all the money if that is the case.

Why? It's for the kids, not the senior team.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

Intersport Elverys actually.

https://www.oneills.com/shop-by-team/gaa-county/mayo-gaa.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw1_PqBRBIEiwA71rmtQaa8KhrwvxXzSe7s2A6XFHh_6PXwE7g7JZmMZ9um-O1R6IuE7c5RhoC-h0QAvD_BwE

Here is the link again so you can look at an actual Mayo jersey.

I was told by you and Frank several times that it was Elverys and not Intersport, right down to the point that Intersport wasn't on the jersey. Now I know that AIG is on the Dublin jersey because I am wearing one every second Saturday or Sunday at a game and I actually watch the games and the players and couldn't help but notice the AIG logo.

It both bewilders and bemuses me that you and Frank didn't know Intersport was on the Mayo jersey.

You didn't notice either until another poster pointed it out to you.

Elverys Intersport is Irish owned.

Irish-owned sports retailer Elverys Intersport, which was bought out of examinership by its management nearly three years ago, is looking to expand its chain of stores after recording a sharp increase in revenues.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/sports-retailer-elverys-back-in-profit-as-expansion-on-the-cards-1.2962670

So I will ask you again, have you any proof to back up your suggestion that its Intersport International that sponsors the Mayo team.

Entirely relevant to the discussion as Dublin are acknowledged to have a substantial sponsorship deal with AIG and its unlikely the Mayo sponsorship comes anywhere near it or any most county's for that matter.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

Why? It's for the kids, not the senior team.

No-one buys that, not even most Dubs.

If it was such a wonderful success in increasing participation, we'd regularly see a host of non Irish names feature on Dublin county and development teams. But we don't.

And we've had a good long look at how Dublin success has gone through the roof across the board since the introduction of GDF and we've all come to the same conclusion. That the money has bought success, pure and simple.

rebel girl 15

given that this has descended into personal attacks, I’m locking this pending a discussion with the rest of the mod team and to go back through the thread and clean it up

Beechwoodspark

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Jim Mc would not suit Dublin's style.
Jayo or Dessie would be the men to get

But then you would end up being even more annoyed.
You would set your keyboard on fire if there was a Dublin North v Dublin South AI final.

My approach is 4 way split for a decade then see where we are at

I’ve passed on my proposal to various ppl I respect who participate in Congress. Mainly positive feedback.

Check the population numbers for a 4 way split by the way. 2 way is still way too advantageous for Dublin.

ToBeFrank123

There's been some amount of revisionism from Dubs lately.

The most laughable is the belief they should be winning 2-4 AIs per decade based on population and if not its some kind of national crisis.

Many counties are under performing in recent years based on their tradition. Do we we see the same hand wringing from the GAA and concern as they showed towards Dublin in the early 2000s? Or course we don't.

maestroamado

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

that rose of Tralee Carry on last night with the dubs jersey and the dog sh1te eloquently shows what ppl outside Dublin think of the Dublin team

I find that most Dublin ppl Havnt a clue how lowly their team is viewed outside Dublin. The financial doping and inherent crazy advantages etc. Some are-hence the hyper sensitivity.

I don’t condone the rose of Tralee stunt however. Bit OTT and in bad taste.

I totally agree.
Thankfully i did not see what i think is repulsive incident but heard about today on media, i am from outside pale (west) and though i do not agree with how dominant Dublin at moment as bad for game in my opinion i am disgusted with this.
I think the fact that RTE and the presenter allowed this puts a question mark on their judgment.

seamus

Getting worked up about the use of a jersey is more embarrassing than unionists and their fleg rubbish lads.

It's just a jersey and it's just a lame GAA joke from a Kerryman.

Outside the Pale, the Dublin team is highly regarded. If Joe bleedin Brolly can tip his cap to them, then anyone can.

It doesn't mean they like the fact, but I've yet to hear anyone say that the current Dublin team aren't one of the best to ever play the game. All the talk of money ignores the fact that these lads play the game and beat all comers. They're not just coasting along because everyone else is being artificially hamstrung or they're having a weird run of luck.

How they got to be so dominant is a worthy debate. But there's no disagreement outside of Dublin that they are an incredible team.

rebel girl 15

Personal snipes will see posters banned for a month

No more warnings

Bonniedog

you are destroying some of my best work!

I'm going to have to actual work now. Major buzzkill :-(

Edgware

maestroamado wrote: »

I totally agree.
Thankfully i did not see what i think is repulsive incident but heard about today on media, i am from outside pale (west) and though i do not agree with how dominant Dublin at moment as bad for game in my opinion i am disgusted with this.
I think the fact that RTE and the presenter allowed this puts a question mark on their judgment.

Usual pathetic effort from R.T.E. but most people in the country recognise Dublin as the great team they are

moghrasa

Edgware wrote: »

Usual pathetic effort from R.T.E. and that village idiot. Of course there are inbreds in the country whose highlight of the week is Winning Streak or that other flute on Marty's Party but most people in the country recognise Dublin as the great team they are

I know tensions are high in this thread, but I cannot and will not stand idly by and watch Marty and Sinead having a bad word said against them. (Say what you want about Brian Ormond tho)

National treasures, so they are.

RoyalCelt

This thread will be fun after Sunday! This young kerry team have potential but I predict Dublin will have better young players emerge over the next 10 years then kerry. I think Dublin will keep winning Sam and eventually it will sink into all in kerry that they won't be beating Dublin again. Their standard will drop as they'll struggle to commit their best players or to give so much to the cause.

There's talk in here of splitting Dublin in 4. That's crazy talk imo. Yes decided 4 ways they'd still have a major advantage over most but imo they don't have to be made completely equal. We all know if things were equal Dublin wouldn't win Sam ever again. That's not good. We want a Dublin who can win Sam and leinster just not every single year. It has to be a North and south Dublin.

If there comes a day when North and south dominate every single year then consider a west Dublin team too. But for now it has to be 2 Dublin teams. North vs South will be the el classico of the GAA and will bring the sport to New heights.

Edgware

RoyalCelt wrote: »

This thread will be fun after Sunday! This young kerry team have potential but I predict Dublin will have better young players emerge over the next 10 years then kerry. I think Dublin will keep winning Sam and eventually it will sink into all in kerry that they won't be beating Dublin again. Their standard will drop as they'll struggle to commit their best players or to give so much to the cause.

There's talk in here of splitting Dublin in 4. That's crazy talk imo. Yes decided 4 ways they'd still have a major advantage over most but imo they don't have to be made completely equal. We all know if things were equal Dublin wouldn't win Sam ever again. That's not good. We want a Dublin who can win Sam and leinster just not every single year. It has to be a North and south Dublin.

If there comes a day when North and south dominate every single year then consider a west Dublin team too. But for now it has to be 2 Dublin teams. North vs South will be the el classico of the GAA and will bring the sport to New heights.

There will be changes and when the other "traditional" (I hate using the term) counties get their act together we will see counties like Kerry Cork Meath Kildare Galway coming through.
These are all counties with big populations. I dont think counties like Offaly Roscommon Monaghan will feature as regards Sam but will still be in contention for League and Provincial titles.

hardybuck

Dublin have set the standard that everyone else is now aspiring to.

The development funding that has been spent there has delivered a huge return on investment, and now it has delivered upon its objective - improving GAA standards in Dublin.

I think the momentum they've built up now doesn't require the same type of annual investment and the those funds should now be distributed to other counties who need it more.

The GAA also needs to come up with a solution to the problems caused by so many guys studying and working in Dublin - and other cities.

Galway were able to bring Johnny Glynn home from America pretty much every week to hurl. Mayo have a minibus that brings lads back and forth from Dublin to Mayo a couple of times a week, and I'm sure a number of counties are able to get sponsors and other fundraisers to pay for that. But can the smaller counties, and the players themselves, sustain it?

Dublin don't have these issues, and it's not their problem, but they have a massive natural advantage having so many guys based at home. I think the GAA should be looking at solutions for this for the organisation as a whole - to help counties deal with this issue and to improve quality of life for players.

seamus

Edgware wrote: »

There will be changes and when the other "traditional" (I hate using the term) counties get their act together we will see counties like Kerry Cork Meath Kildare Galway coming through.

Bang on.

I'm sure there were points in time when people thought that Kerry would never be beaten, that they were just set up too well, too many good young players coming through.

Dublin have raised the bar. The other counties will rise to meet it. There is a lot of doom and gloom about the game being ruined, that Dublin will continue winning for decades to come. But that has never happened in any active sport. Dublin will remain a strong competitor, sure, but the game will shift again and another team will be in the spotlight.

Bonniedog

RoyalCelt wrote: »

But for now it has to be 2 Dublin teams. North vs South will be the el classico of the GAA and will bring the sport to New heights.

In the same way as Rovers/Bohs is El Classico. Be about the same level of interest.

Happyilylost

hardybuck wrote:

Galway were able to bring Johnny Glynn home from America pretty much every week to hurl. Mayo have a minibus that brings lads back and forth from Dublin to Mayo a couple of times a week, and I'm sure a number of counties are able to get sponsors and other fundraisers to pay for that. But can the smaller counties, and the players themselves, sustain it?

The part about Johnny Glynn is what we call a lie. He gets one flight home. Waits till we are knocked out. Then heads back stateside. No private jets in between.