The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

socruel

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Happyilylost wrote: »

But that harsh reality was also the case before MAYO AND GALWAY got all that cash to change that harsh reality.
Split MAYO AND GALWAY and the CONNACHT gaa is in a great position. You could have 5 teams capable of winning the CONNACHT TITLE . I get you mightnt like it, but it is hard to deny that it is a move that would reinvigorate the sport IN CONNACHT

An honest question - how many of these procession CONNACHT TITLES do GALWAY AND MAYO need to win before you would admit that there could be a serious problem for the sport? Thet already have 94 out of 123. If they win the next 2 out of 3? 3 out of 4? 5 out of 5? How flawed would that make this cyclical argument? Would you still push it? How about the golden generation? Reduced to nonsense at that point surely? But yet, some still claim that DUBLIN should be split also, which is even more ludicrous.

Made a few amendments.

Floppybits

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I suggested that before 4/5 Dub players should be allowed to play for other counties. Like the Irish basketball clubs used to do with a quota of American players.
People did not seem to like the suggestion though.

It is a hard one, on one hand if players did go to other counties it would strengthen but would the players in that county accept it? Would the population of the county accept it? Then would the player that is going to play accept it?

You could also see the outside player being blamed when things go wrong, also it is a bit of a kick in the balls for the player to be told you are not good enough for your own county but Wicklow don't mind having ya.

MayoAreMagic

socruel wrote: »

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Made a few amendments.

I take it that means you dont have any suggestions to fix the problems yourself... The hurler on the ditch effort.

Also, I will give you a heads up, galway and mayo are already split...

omega man

Has anyone actually attempted to answer the population advantages for other counties or is this just unique to Dublin somehow...(nothing to do with winning AIs of course).

socruel

socruel wrote: »

I dont believe you have admitted to the population advantages Mayo benefits from in Connacht, perhaps i missed that ?

In regard to your 2nd sentence with a population of 4.7 million you could establish 50 entirely new franchises with exactly equal populations of 94,000 people each. Part of Mayo would be re designated as Sligo.

It is the logical end point of your argument. So i'm assuming you are in favour. Thanks, look forward to your response to advantages Mayo benefits from.

Here you go Mayoaremagic, solution already proposed, you just ignored it !!!

Maybe change your ID to Sligoaremagic ?

Happyilylost

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Happyilylost wrote: »

But that harsh reality was also the case before dublin got all that cash to change that harsh reality.
Split dublin and the gaa is in a great position. You could have 6-7 teams capable of winning the all ireland and leinster gets a new lease of life. I get you mightnt like it, but it is hard to deny that it is a move that would reinvigorate the sport.

An honest question - how many of these procession all irelands do dublin need to win before you would admit that there could be a serious problem for the sport? Thet already have 7 out of 9. If they win the next 2 out of 3? 3 out of 4? 5 out of 5? How flawed would that make this cyclical argument? Would you still push it? How about the golden generation? Reduced to nonsense at that point surely? But yet, some still claim that kerry should be split also, which is even more ludicrous.

Leinster needs a tiered championship. Same as Connacht and Munster. Only championships that have been consistently competitive have been the Ulster Football Championship and the Munster Hurling Championship. The rest in both codes are up and down in numbers with the amount of teams capable of competing. Some periods strong other instances very weak (Munster and Leinster football been much the same over the last decade) I don't believe the sport needs reinvigorating more teams and fans need the prospect of victory. There wasn't a man left in Leitrim this year for the league final and this should be the aim of the GAA over the next few years. Give teams/fans a realistic prospect of winning and they will come out in huge numbers. Give fans games that are over before they start and they won't show up.

I've never mention golden generation or splitting Kerry so I'll have ignore those remarks.

As regards how many All Irelands before I get worried. When Dublin are winning All Ireland Finals in a canter it might be worth looking at. Mayo in two and Kerry this year could and possibly should of beaten them. It's hardly Dublin's fault they were let off the hook.

I have no love for Dublin the same as I don't have a whole lot for Mayo and I've plenty of issues with the GAA but I land those problems at the feet of the GAA hierarchy and some of the decisions they've made and the lack of transparency in a lot of what they do. I don't think its anyway fair to put these issues at the feet of Dublin.

When Galway do the double next year we can talk about splitting us too.

harpsman

I'd be in favour of splitting Dublin, as Peter Quinn recommended in 2001, even if they werent winning every all ireland.
A region with 1.3m people where the game is popular shouldnt be fielding only 1 team.

harpsman

socruel wrote: »

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Made a few amendments.

Population of Mayo is twice that of Roscommon and Sligo, which is not that big a disparity.

If you formed a new team/county in the Dublin area it would be an improvement, even if it still has 10 times the population of Roscommon and sligo. Or do you want every team to have the same pop. as Ros and Sligo? If you say so-20 teams from the Dublin area seems a bit much to me, but if thats what you want.

Happyilylost

harpsman wrote: »

I'd be in favour of splitting Dublin, as Peter Quinn recommended in 2001, even if they werent winning every all ireland.
A region with 1.3m people where the game is popular shouldnt be fielding only 1 team.

I won't get too far into this debate as it is the same points being made over and over again with people just changing a few words here and there. But that report is used a good bit as some sort of validation as to why Dublin should be split when in fact its the complete opposite. The report in 2001 said that DCB was in disarray and poorly managed. The report concluded that due to the sheer size of Dublin's population it was impossible for one county board to run affairs correctly. I think it's fair to say since that shoe in the hole Dublin have got their house in order.

Strumms

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

100% incorrect and untrue. I have addressed it numerous times. However people are simply using this to change the subject. If I start talking about that, again, they move away from the subject at hand. It is a smokescreen.

As for the rest of your post I have not ignored any part of what you said. I referenced keeping funding for kids in dublin 2-3 times in the last few posts alone.
Re professionalism, ive not made any point about it here.

You have just invented a whole stance for me. Thanks, but I will stick to my own.

You will stick to your hot air, bull and bluster, you have been furnished with statistics regarding funding, population and where that funding needs to go and how thinly spread it it...

You have been furnished with the facts that every single player and coach within the entire inter county setup is either gainfully employed or a student.

Any money given by the GAA thinly spread, as has been demonstrated. It is an investment not an advantage as has been clearly shown.

Dublin have had similar population trends over decades, any growth has not been in the main down to anything other then people arriving into the country from abroad who don’t have any relationship with the sport at all. The biggest census to census increase in population in Dublin you have to go back to 1965 +1.81% and it hasn’t come close since.. nor do current predictions suggest that it will.

Coillte_Bhoy

Happyilylost wrote: »

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Leinster needs a tiered championship. Same as Connacht and Munster. Only championships that have been consistently competitive have been the Ulster Football Championship and the Munster Hurling Championship. The rest in both codes are up and down in numbers with the amount of teams capable of competing. Some periods strong other instances very weak (Munster and Leinster football been much the same over the last decade) I don't believe the sport needs reinvigorating more teams and fans need the prospect of victory. There wasn't a man left in Leitrim this year for the league final and this should be the aim of the GAA over the next few years. Give teams/fans a realistic prospect of winning and they will come out in huge numbers. Give fans games that are over before they start and they won't show up.

I've never mention golden generation or splitting Kerry so I'll have ignore those remarks.

As regards how many All Irelands before I get worried. When Dublin are winning All Ireland Finals in a canter it might be worth looking at. Mayo in two and Kerry this year could and possibly should of beaten them. It's hardly Dublin's fault they were let off the hook.

I have no love for Dublin the same as I don't have a whole lot for Mayo and I've plenty of issues with the GAA but I land those problems at the feet of the GAA hierarchy and some of the decisions they've made and the lack of transparency in a lot of what they do. I don't think its anyway fair to put these issues at the feet of Dublin.

When Galway do the double next year we can talk about splitting us too.

A tiered cship in Connacht? Ah come on, 3 teams in each cship?

Boom__Boom

harpsman wrote: »

I'd be in favour of splitting Dublin, as Peter Quinn recommended in 2001, even if they werent winning every all ireland.
A region with 1.3m people where the game is popular shouldnt be fielding only 1 team.

I'd love to see someone asking John Costello about the reason Dublin stopped competing in the Junior Football championship. Harping on about increasing participation rates for kids, yet refusing to play in a competition that would give more lads a chance to play for Dublin.

Happyilylost

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Happyilylost wrote: »

A tiered cship in Connacht? Ah come on, 3 teams in each cship?

Sorry. Thought it was clear enough. Not tiered provinces. A tiered championship. As in no more Connacht.

Coillte_Bhoy

Happyilylost wrote: »

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Sorry. Thought it was clear enough. Not tiered provinces. A tiered championship. As in no more Connacht.

Got ya, totally agree too

Coillte_Bhoy

Boom__Boom wrote: »

I'd love to see someone asking John Costello about the reason Dublin stopped competing in the Junior Football championship. Harping on about increasing participation rates for kids, yet refusing to play in a competition that would give more lads a chance to play for Dublin.

I didn't realise that, what on earth is the reason?

Floppybits

Happyilylost wrote: »

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Sorry. Thought it was clear enough. Not tiered provinces. A tiered championship. As in no more Connacht.

They need to run the provincials off earlier in the year and for the All Ireland have an open draw all counties into the hat, no seedings, no exceptions like teams from the same province can't play each other, first out of the hat gets choice to play at home or another venue, lose and you are out of the competition. Then have a second competition where all counties who are knocked out in the first 2 rounds are entered into that draw. At least then every county is going to get 2 games imagine the interest around the draw, you could end up with Kerry against Dublin in the first round.

Get rid of backdoors, frontdoors, side doors, super 8's and whatever else ya have.

harpsman

Floppybits wrote: »

Happyilylost wrote: »

They need to run the provincials off earlier in the year and for the All Ireland have an open draw all counties into the hat, no seedings, no exceptions like teams from the same province can't play each other, first out of the hat gets choice to play at home or another venue, lose and you are out of the competition. Then have a second competition where all counties who are knocked out in the first 2 rounds are entered into that draw. At least then every county is going to get 2 games imagine the interest around the draw, you could end up with Kerry against Dublin in the first round.

Get rid of backdoors, frontdoors, side doors, super 8's and whatever else ya have.

Sorry, but almost every bit of this is a terrible idea. I couldn't think of a worse way to run the championship.

Coillte_Bhoy

Floppybits wrote: »

Happyilylost wrote: »

They need to run the provincials off earlier in the year and for the All Ireland have an open draw all counties into the hat, no seedings, no exceptions like teams from the same province can't play each other, first out of the hat gets choice to play at home or another venue, lose and you are out of the competition. Then have a second competition where all counties who are knocked out in the first 2 rounds are entered into that draw. At least then every county is going to get 2 games imagine the interest around the draw, you could end up with Kerry against Dublin in the first round.

Get rid of backdoors, frontdoors, side doors, super 8's and whatever else ya have.

Ridiculous, you could have the top teams drawn against each other in the first two rounds and the losers who would have been genuine AI contenders put into the secondary competition. Do you think they would even bother. I doubt it

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I take it that means you dont have any suggestions to fix the problems yourself... The hurler on the ditch effort.

Also, I will give you a heads up, galway and mayo are already split...

He raises a fair point.

Kerry and Cork have won 93% of the Munster Football Championships since 1900.

Galway and Mayo have won 79% of the Connacht Football Championships since 1900.

Dublin and Meath have won 60% of the Leinster Football Championships since 1900.

There has never been a level playing field, there have been unfair structural biases built into the GAA since its foundation.

What hope for Waterford in splitting Dublin? None. Ditto Leitrim, Antrim, Wicklow, Clare, Limerick, Tipperary, Sligo, London etc.

The only ones calling for it are coming from Mayo, Cork, Kerry, Meath and Kildare, for their own selfish reasons. The debate has no credibility other than being a bitter losing whinge unless it also addressed the successes of teams other than Dublin.

Floppybits

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Floppybits wrote: »

Ridiculous, you could have the top teams drawn against each other in the first two rounds and the losers who would have been genuine AI contenders put into the secondary competition. Do you think they would even bother. I doubt it

Why is it ridiculous?

Most cup competitions are run like this straight knock out, no seedings. So what if 2 big teams meet in the first round, big deal, they got knocked out so what? On we move, easily implement a rule that counties must enter teams in the second competition, they can enter the under 20's or a development team if they want. I bet if there was a money prize for the county at the end of it they would be entering teams.

The problem is that folks want a chance for every team to win the All Ireland which is never ever going to happen, yes you are going to get surprise winners from year to year or a county that gets their act together breaking through but mostly you are going to get the same counties like Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal who are the ones in with a realistic chance of winning the All Ireland.

Floppybits

harpsman wrote: »

Floppybits wrote: »

Sorry, but almost every bit of this is a terrible idea. I couldn't think of a worse way to run the championship.

so what way would you run it? Any other way you are just going to have the same teams competing over and over and over again for the top prize. Whether it is done as is, a Champion league format or what ever it is going to be the same.

The championships were better when it was straight knockout. Games were more intense, smaller counties had a chance of upsetting the odds, think Leitrim and Clare in football in the early 90's.

See what you have here is counties like Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Meath, Kildare asking for Dublin to be split to give themselves are better chance and F**k the rest. Those counties would sh1t themselves in a straight knock out maybe not Kerry but the rest would and therefore would be against. So they are happy to moan and grumble about Dublin but god forbid it any changes being made that would dent their chances.

gaffer91

blanch152 wrote: »

Nonsense. Kerry only won 38 All-Irelands because of the insitutional bias built in over a century.

If you truly want a fair and level competition, then splitting Kerry is on the agenda as much as Dublin, so is amalgamating small unsuccessful counties.

As I have said already, accept that principle and we can have a real discussion, not a discussion driven by the unhappiness of Mayo and Kerry fans.

You keep looking at the outcomes- what's more important are the factors that lead to these outcomes i.e are one team unfairly favoured and building their victories off this platform? In Dublin's case the answer to this is a resounding yes- they have many unfair advantages including financial doping, home advantage and a playing pool multiples of the average.

Kerry having what you consider a relatively easy run to the semi-final/ quarter-final/ super 8s isn't a patch on these advantages that Dublin have. They also don't actually help for these games, whereas Dublin's unfair advantages benefit them for all games.

Lastly, a team can be dominant without it being unfair (e.g Kilkenny). Kerry don't have the financial doping/ population or home advantages on other Munster counties that Dublin do on every other county.

So Dublin need to be split to help mitigate the damage to the game done by their population and funding advantages and help level the playing field- the most that needs to be conceded about Kerry is that consideration can be given to scrapping the provincials.

blanch152 wrote: »

Kerry have had structural and institutional bias in their favour for over a century, giving them many relatively easily won All-Irelands. They now have a psychological hold over the province of Munster, with only an occasional challenge from Cork to deal with.

Unlike you, who only sees Dublin as a problem, I am prepared to discuss creating an equal competition that would see several amalgamations as well as the splitting of Kerry and Dublin.

See above.

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not possible to take your posts seriously until you acknowledge that there should be a multi-faceted approach to creating an equal competition.

It is not possible to take your posts seriously until you acknowledge that there needs to be a split of Dublin, and Dublin alone.

The problem isn't just the fact they are winning, it is also the fact they are doing it from an unfairly advantaged position relative to every other county. This has been explained to you many times.

blanch152 wrote: »

Kerry cleverly took advantage of the structural bias in the competition throughout the 20th century to an extent that the Munster championship has become demoralised and effectively defunct. Even when Tipperary got a good team together in the last half-decade it didn't last and players dropped out because they couldn't see a path to provincial glory. Pretending that all is equal in Munster is disingenuous.

It's not a patch on the unfair advantages Dublin have. Kerry didn't enjoy massive population, funding and home pitch advantages on every other county in Munster- Dublin did and do.

blanch152 wrote: »

Dublin got their act together in recent years and built on their population advantage for the first time. The 2011 win was a struggle for that team to get there after 2009 and 2010, but when the once-in-a-generation players came along afterwards, that led to the five-in-a-row.

Glad you accept that population is an advantage. We're making some progress is seems. I thought 2011 was the golden generation though? Seems this golden generation is getting pushed back year on year. Almost as if it isn't actually a golden generation but a permanent supply of excellent new players (courtesy of large population and funding advantages).

blanch152 wrote: »

Nonsense. Kerry only won 38 All-Irelands because of the insitutional bias built in over a century.

If you truly want a fair and level competition, then splitting Kerry is on the agenda as much as Dublin, so is amalgamating small unsuccessful counties.

As I have said already, accept that principle and we can have a real discussion, not a discussion driven by the unhappiness of Mayo and Kerry fans.

blanch152 wrote: »

You can't fix a competition by nobbling the best team. Splitting Brazil for the World Cup would only make the other big countries - Germany, Argentina - more likely to win. It would do nothing for the rest of the world. Similarly, the attempts to put splitting Dublin on the agenda don't come from the Wicklows and Antrims of this world, they come from the Mayos and Kerrys who are bitterly envious of the Dubs success and want it for their own county.

It's not about nobbling the best team- it's about recognising that one team have a host of unfair advantages on other counties and that steps need to be taken to correct these or the competition will die.

If Dublin didn't win an All-Ireland for the next five years or whatever they should still be split.

blanch152 wrote: »

The only genuine people on this are the ones who would be prepared to rip up tradition, split the most successful counties (Kerry and Dublin), amalgamate others and create a level field. Until that principle is accepted, it can clearly be seen that you and others are acting only out of naked self-interest for your own county.

The principle is that Dublin have unfair population, funding and home pitch advantages and we need to take steps to manage these advantages, namely by splitting Dublin. No other county has the deck stacked in their favour.

Until that principle is accepted, it can clearly be seen that you and others are acting only out of naked self-interest for your own county.

You'd genuinely rather see the inter-county game die than see the playing field leveled- that's very disappointing from a GAA supporter.

Coillte_Bhoy

Floppybits wrote: »

Why is it ridiculous?

Most cup competitions are run like this straight knock out, no seedings. So what if 2 big teams meet in the first round, big deal, they got knocked out so what? On we move, easily implement a rule that counties must enter teams in the second competition, they can enter the under 20's or a development team if they want. I bet if there was a money prize for the county at the end of it they would be entering teams.

But knock out cup competitions are not the main competition in any sport that i know off and anyway in most top level cup competitions, the lesser teams enter in Round 1 and the bigger teams dont enter until a later stage. Insist all you want on a cunty having to enter a team in the secondary competition, no issue with that but most of the bigger teams or their fans wont give a toss, and i imagine neither will the players.

Floppybits wrote: »

The problem is that folks want a chance for every team to win the All Ireland which is never ever going to happen, yes you are going to get surprise winners from year to year or a county that gets their act together breaking through but mostly you are going to get the same counties like Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal who are the ones in with a realistic chance of winning the All Ireland.

Not at all, thats being unrealistic, but at least give teams a chance to compete at their own level in the championship and if they are good enough, they move up a level

TrueGael

Neutral: Having an enormous population and only 1 team is unfair to the others

AIG fans: But we have loads of competing sports and our population doesn't accurately the numbers playing GAA

Neutral: getting 20 times the funding of Cork in the last decade plus is a disgrace

AIG fans: But we have the biggest population we demand and deserve 20 million more funding!!!!!!!!

Hammer Archer

TrueGael wrote: »

Neutral: Having an enormous population and only 1 team is unfair to the others

AIG fans: But we have loads of competing sports and our population doesn't accurately the numbers playing GAA

Neutral: getting 20 times the funding of Cork in the last decade plus is a disgrace

AIG fans: But we have the biggest population we demand and deserve 20 million more funding!!!!!!!!

The county's name is Dublin. Posting like that is clear trolling so try it again and you'll be banned.

blanch152

gaffer91 wrote: »

You keep looking at the outcomes- what's more important are the factors that lead to these outcomes i.e are one team unfairly favoured and building their victories off this platform? In Dublin's case the answer to this is a resounding yes- they have many unfair advantages including financial doping, home advantage and a playing pool multiples of the average.

Kerry having what you consider a relatively easy run to the semi-final/ quarter-final/ super 8s isn't a patch on these advantages that Dublin have. They also don't actually help for these games, whereas Dublin's unfair advantages benefit them for all games.

Lastly, a team can be dominant without it being unfair (e.g Kilkenny). Kerry don't have the financial doping/ population or home advantages on other Munster counties that Dublin do on every other county.

So Dublin need to be split to help mitigate the damage to the game done by their population and funding advantages and help level the playing field- the most that needs to be conceded about Kerry is that consideration can be given to scrapping the provincials.



See above.



It is not possible to take your posts seriously until you acknowledge that there needs to be a split of Dublin, and Dublin alone.

The problem isn't just the fact they are winning, it is also the fact they are doing it from an unfairly advantaged position relative to every other county. This has been explained to you many times.



It's not a patch on the unfair advantages Dublin have. Kerry didn't enjoy massive population, funding and home pitch advantages on every other county in Munster- Dublin did and do.




Glad you accept that population is an advantage. We're making some progress is seems. I thought 2011 was the golden generation though? Seems this golden generation is getting pushed back year on year. Almost as if it isn't actually a golden generation but a permanent supply of excellent new players (courtesy of large population and funding advantages).





It's not about nobbling the best team- it's about recognising that one team have a host of unfair advantages on other counties and that steps need to be taken to correct these or the competition will die.

If Dublin didn't win an All-Ireland for the next five years or whatever they should still be split.



The principle is that Dublin have unfair population, funding and home pitch advantages and we need to take steps to manage these advantages, namely by splitting Dublin. No other county has the deck stacked in their favour.

Until that principle is accepted, it can clearly be seen that you and others are acting only out of naked self-interest for your own county.

You'd genuinely rather see the inter-county game die than see the playing field leveled- that's very disappointing from a GAA supporter.

What a load of rubbish.

Splitting Brazil doesn't make the World Cup more fair for the less successful teams, neither does splitting Dublin.

I have put forward quite a number of suggestions to actually level the playing-field, but because it isn't about nobbling one team, you aren't interested.

Strumms

blanch152 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish.

Splitting Brazil doesn't make the World Cup more fair for the less successful teams, neither does splitting Dublin.

I have put forward quite a number of suggestions to actually level the playing-field, but because it isn't about nobbling one team, you aren't interested.

Precisely, it isn’t about helping other counties, with more funding, which ironically is being mooted as a contributing factor to Dublin’s success it’s more about fûcking up Dublin by tearing the county in two, thus enabling more success for other counties.

The Lost Sheep

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well that is the thing. They tried and couldnt do it, hence bertie's bailout.
There is an awful lot of revisionism with dublin these days. The whole john horan volunteers spiel being a good example. Their volunteers failed to promote the game to the level other volunteers were doing, that was the problem in the first place. That isnt trying to be critical, it is just the way it went and maybe they needed help as regards working in a city etc, but bottom line, it is what ended up happening. It was unfortunate, you live and learn.
But this thing where guys turn around and say that their volunteers are the reason they are successful, and not the shedloads of extra cash, is a bit rich. It is unnecessarily inflammatory truth be told, to the taxpayers whose money actually was the thing that made the difference.

The horan volunteers thing is a fair point but its simply easier to do a lot of things in a city with the funding dublin have. The format of competitions and season for inter county sides also needs to change to really help challenge things.

blanch152 wrote: »

Kerry have had structural and institutional bias in their favour for over a century, giving them many relatively easily won All-Irelands. They now have a psychological hold over the province of Munster, with only an occasional challenge from Cork to deal with.

Unlike you, who only sees Dublin as a problem, I am prepared to discuss creating an equal competition that would see several amalgamations as well as the splitting of Kerry and Dublin. Replacing a Dublin five-in-a-row with an asterixed Kerry six-in-a-row by just splitting Dublin is not a solution to anything. It is not possible to take your posts seriously until you acknowledge that there should be a multi-faceted approach to creating an equal competition.

Yes Kerry do have structural issues etc that make them stronger by a distance over their provincial rivals and thats why a major issue with competition within the all ireland is the structure at the moment. Amalgamations should happen but i wouldnt agree with splitting counties as well. There needs to be tiers within the all ireland and getting the best and the rest to play at their own level more.

You can't fix a competition by nobbling the best team. Splitting Brazil for the World Cup would only make the other big countries - Germany, Argentina - more likely to win. It would do nothing for the rest of the world. Similarly, the attempts to put splitting Dublin on the agenda don't come from the Wicklows and Antrims of this world, they come from the Mayos and Kerrys who are bitterly envious of the Dubs success and want it for their own county.

The only genuine people on this are the ones who would be prepared to rip up tradition, split the most successful counties (Kerry and Dublin), amalgamate others and create a level field. Until that principle is accepted, it can clearly be seen that you and others are acting only out of naked self-interest for your own county.

Splitting counties cant be the main/only proposal as you say. It only would help the next best big counties who would then go on to dominate. All too often we have division 4 sides playing top tier throughout the all ireland which isnt what happens in most other competitions/sports. fixing that helps the competition more

Happyilylost wrote: »

Splitting or amalgamating will never be the answer. Harsh reality is some counties will rarely and in some instances never be able to compete consistently for Sam/Liam. Tiered system is the long term answer where teams will compete at their level but also be given the opportunity to rise through the ranks to compete at a higher level if they are able. Main issue is the GAA need to ensure any lower division is given the exposure it is needed to ensure it is not lost into the shadows of the GAA. Equal TV/media exposure.

Splitting or amalgamating counties can very much be the answer. Yes some counties will rarely or ever compete at the top level but thats why amalgamating weaker sides can help them in long term as long as they have a tiered level where they can still also compete on their own.

Funding needs to be reviewed and more transparency from the GAA as to how/why it is distributed. The same way the GAA invested in inner city parts of Dublin the same investment is needed in rural Ireland to stop the decline in player numbers leading to club amalgamations.

I have spoken about Dublin and Croke Park but there is no long tem or short term solution to it so it will have to remain.

A lot of decline in player numbers in rural areas which has lead to club amalgamations and team amalgamations are reasons well beyond power of GAA so what exactly do you expect the association to do?

Floppybits wrote: »

They need to run the provincials off earlier in the year and for the All Ireland have an open draw all counties into the hat, no seedings, no exceptions like teams from the same province can't play each other, first out of the hat gets choice to play at home or another venue, lose and you are out of the competition. Then have a second competition where all counties who are knocked out in the first 2 rounds are entered into that draw. At least then every county is going to get 2 games imagine the interest around the draw, you could end up with Kerry against Dublin in the first round.

You dont need to run off provincial championships off entirely before all ireland. look at soccer they dont run fa cup/league cup off completely before premiership starts. provincial championships should be in weeks in between a league based all ireland.

Floppybits wrote: »

so what way would you run it? Any other way you are just going to have the same teams competing over and over and over again for the top prize. Whether it is done as is, a Champion league format or what ever it is going to be the same.

The championships were better when it was straight knockout. Games were more intense, smaller counties had a chance of upsetting the odds, think Leitrim and Clare in football in the early 90's.

See what you have here is counties like Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Meath, Kildare asking for Dublin to be split to give themselves are better chance and F**k the rest. Those counties would sh1t themselves in a straight knock out maybe not Kerry but the rest would and therefore would be against. So they are happy to moan and grumble about Dublin but god forbid it any changes being made that would dent their chances.

competitions were not at all better when it was straight knockout. Smaller counties still didnt win enough or do enough over the years bar a few tiny exceptions.

dunnerc

gaffer91 wrote: »

You keep looking at the outcomes- what's more important are the factors that lead to these outcomes i.e are one team unfairly favoured and building their victories off this platform? In Dublin's case the answer to this is a resounding yes- they have many unfair advantages including financial doping, home advantage and a playing pool multiples of the average.

Kerry having what you consider a relatively easy run to the semi-final/ quarter-final/ super 8s isn't a patch on these advantages that Dublin have. They also don't actually help for these games, whereas Dublin's unfair advantages benefit them for all games.

Lastly, a team can be dominant without it being unfair (e.g Kilkenny). Kerry don't have the financial doping/ population or home advantages on other Munster counties that Dublin do on every other county.

So Dublin need to be split to help mitigate the damage to the game done by their population and funding advantages and help level the playing field- the most that needs to be conceded about Kerry is that consideration can be given to scrapping the provincials.



See above.



It is not possible to take your posts seriously until you acknowledge that there needs to be a split of Dublin, and Dublin alone.

The problem isn't just the fact they are winning, it is also the fact they are doing it from an unfairly advantaged position relative to every other county. This has been explained to you many times.



It's not a patch on the unfair advantages Dublin have. Kerry didn't enjoy massive population, funding and home pitch advantages on every other county in Munster- Dublin did and do.




Glad you accept that population is an advantage. We're making some progress is seems. I thought 2011 was the golden generation though? Seems this golden generation is getting pushed back year on year. Almost as if it isn't actually a golden generation but a permanent supply of excellent new players (courtesy of large population and funding advantages).





It's not about nobbling the best team- it's about recognising that one team have a host of unfair advantages on other counties and that steps need to be taken to correct these or the competition will die.

If Dublin didn't win an All-Ireland for the next five years or whatever they should still be split.



The principle is that Dublin have unfair population, funding and home pitch advantages and we need to take steps to manage these advantages, namely by splitting Dublin. No other county has the deck stacked in their favour.

Until that principle is accepted, it can clearly be seen that you and others are acting only out of naked self-interest for your own county.

You'd genuinely rather see the inter-county game die than see the playing field leveled- that's very disappointing from a GAA supporter.

Galway have 8 times the population of Leitrim, , are you not concerned that this is not a level playing field ? Will splitting Dublin help Leitrim , Tipp , Waterford etc ? This calling for Dublin to be split is nonsense it would destroy GAA in the County , and would see the " inter-county game die "

Happyilylost

The Lost Sheep wrote:

A lot of decline in player numbers in rural areas which has lead to club amalgamations and team amalgamations are reasons well beyond power of GAA so what exactly do you expect the association to do?

The same thing they did for poor numbers in inner city Dublin tbh.