Sibling Robbing money from father

splinter65

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He will be entitled to make a claim.Any claim must be brought within 6 months of a Grant of Probate or a Grant of Probate with Will Annexed issuing from the Probate Office.

Also you cannot disinherit a spouse. Regardless of what your will says. I think it also goes for civil partners.

But if the op has the father change the will etc right now to disinherit the sibling based on this alleged knowledge I don't know how that would play.

Thanks for jogging my memory though.

The disinherited child can only bring a claim against the will if he/she is under 18 or 22 if in full time education and was dependent on the deceased parent. Other then that it’s tough titty.

MAJJ

Maybe get a camera on place to monitor the card. Maybe too late if this card has been blocked. Sorry for what you're dealing with but I would confront my brother on this.

sportsfan90

Just something to ponder for the OP. You're right that the overwhelming evidence suggests that it's your brother who is stealing from your father.

But before you make any accusations, just make a list of people who might have access to your fathers house. For example does your brothers partner have access to a key? Or a "friendly neighbour" who used to feed the dog / check in on the place while your dad was away on holidays? (I used inverted commas as we have one back home who seemed like the nicest person on earth, but in the end it turned out he was guilty of some of the most heinous acts imaginable so you never really know what people can be capable of).

Also is it possible there's another atm card to his account that he doesn't know exists and that's the one that's being used?

I feel so sorry for your dad, it's a really awful thing to do to take advantage of someones trust and good nature, especially when it appears his own son is the guilty party. I don't know your father but from what you describe I'm sure he'd have had no problem helping your brother out a bit financially if he simply asked.

I agree with other posters that there's a good chance he'll never again see the stolen money, but hopefully it can be stopped from now on and at least he'll now know never to trust that person again.

The_Honeybadger

OP you can forget about getting a cent back for your father. Your sibling sounds like a parasite, I know the type and they simply won’t repay the money no matter what you do.

All you can do is help your dad lock down everything to ensure your sibling no longer has access to his money.

The whole situation sounds very peculiar. I cannot believe your father only noticed this now if he was being robbed blind for years, especially a man who still has the scruples to work full time for the council. Most of that generation know where their communion money is. Not saying I don’t believe you, just that your father must be very vulnerable for this to happen to him.

Another thing. You may need to keep a close eye on your dad after all this shakes out. I don’t know how involved he is in your dads day to day life but your sibling may well disappear from it nearly altogether now that his easy money has been cut off.

ILoveYourVibes

Would it hurt your father if your sibling stopped seeing him?

I really think you should confront your sibling. Or tell your father your suspicions and let him decide what to do. I know he is older but he is an adult.

ILoveYourVibes

corklily05 wrote: »

I know and i understand why you asked. I've asked my father have you ever given any sort of verbal consent for my sibling to use the card or anything like it and he said no way!! I believe him.

Also, its the underhanded way of going about their business, my sibling knows my father does not have internet banking and never pays any attention to bank statements. All the stealing is done while my dad is at work. The card is put back is the same place so my father is none the wiser.

I didn't mean to come across as abrupt, i understand you're trying to help

Go the guards.

You will be saying goodbye to your sibling though your father will too.

Because that is how he will emotionally blackmail you. You will have to tough that out though and hope in a few years he will change.

I don't think a family can handle this alone.

d9oiu2wk07blr5

@ markcheese I will try and get my father to change his will which has been recommended to me and hit my sibling where it hurts.

I would not recommend that you do this. This could be seen as coercian & backfire in terms of your motives. Rightly or wrongly your dad also has the right to leave his Estate to whomever he chooses. Your dad needs independent advice/support from an advocate who specializes in elder abuse. How about talking to his GP who may be able to advice or refer? There's special social work teams who deal with suspected elder/financial abuse. Might be worth dad & yourself talking to the bank too to see what safeguards can be put on your dads accounts.

shesty

I am actually struggling to understand how both you and your sibling have so much access to your Dad's financial affairs, bank accounts, statements, etc (I understand the card may have been given or a PIN number shared).I thought banks were far more careful with access than that?

However this is a horrible situation .The best you can do I think is make sure your father is the only one with cards and access to the account and most importantly, that he never shares PINs etc.Or that the bank notify him of any "unusual" activity such as spending on odd things like holidays, or amounts over a certain limit or something.Shouldn't be too big an ask for the bank to be honest, because I have often heard of (and experienced) them locking a card or account when a hotel in another country, or a train ticket in another country etc might have been booked for a holiday, and you have to ring to confirm to them what you are doing.It may be the only way to go.Obviously if your Dad then wants to book that stuff himself, he can notify them.

It's a lousy situation OP.

corklily05

Hi all,

I must stress again that my father is a very trusting person and in no way shape or form did he stop to think that his own son who "pretended" to look after while robbing him blind would do such a thing.

About the neighbour situation, the neighbour would need the alarm code and the PIN, neither of which they have to get into the house. Yes, they have a key to the door but none of the other 2. Also, he'd ave no idea the card is in the house in the first place. There is only one explanation, it's my brother!

I will take the steps recommended such as 2nd bank account, text alerts, internet banking etc. I'm not going to give to much away here but i've found something that will catch out my brother. I'ts in the form of something that will be in his name but the payment is on my fathers card.

Please, don't speculate here!

As regards any suspicious payments, the ongoing ones are diesel in the local petrol station and the groceries and atm withdrawals in places my dad wouldn't be. I've been suspicious for a while but as i said earlier my father kept on fobbing me off. It finally dawned on him.

Now, the repayments, my best friend happens to be a person that's "in the know" and i can promise you can get every single cent back, we need to see a solicitor but bottom line you can. That will be coming in the next while. Best thing to do is baby steps as my father is in shock over this. I cannot stress this enough.

Thanks for all the help

Dial Hard

corklily05 wrote:

Now, the repayments, my best friend happens to be a person that's "in the know" and i can promise you can get every single cent back, we need to see a solicitor but bottom line you can. That will be coming in the next while. Best thing to do is baby steps as my father is in shock over this. I cannot stress this enough.

How will you get the money back if your brother simply can't afford to pay it? I think you may need to manage your expectations in that regard. I have a family member who has court-ordered payments from someone and they still can't get the money because the person just doesn't have it.

corklily05

@Dial hard, brother has a big house in the countryside and a fairly flash car. How come he can afford the repayments on these?

The_Honeybadger

corklily05 wrote: »

@Dial hard, brother has a big house in the countryside and a fairly flash car. How come he can afford the repayments on these?

It’s possible if he has a reasonable income and your dad was funding other aspects of his lifestyle, to the tune of €15k I think you said. Did you not say he borrowed money for the car from your dad also?

Regardless of what your friend ‘in the know’ told you it is going to be extremely difficult to get any money from your brother unless your dad is willing to go all the way down the legal route which could drag on for ages and bring the whole thing out publicly in the community. Your father may not want this and may prefer to cut his losses and remain on speaking terms with his son despite what he has done.

Please consider what your father wants and talk to him about his options. While your brothers actions are abhorrent the whole thing is coming across as a bit of a vendetta on your part. Your outrage is absolutely understandable but this is family you are dealing with and there will be long lasting repercussions if you push your father in to legal action if he would prefer to let it lie.

AndrewJRenko

This a very serious issue, and the sibling could well go to jail.

OP - get copies of all bank statements (even photos on your phone) and any other documentation, and take it to Gardai.

Dial Hard

corklily05 wrote:

@Dial hard, brother has a big house in the countryside and a fairly flash car. How come he can afford the repayments on these?

Because he was stealing from your dad to supplement his income. Take that out of the equation and you'll probably find he's not nearly as flush as you think.

I mean this in the nicest possible way OP, but I think you need to wise up.

corklily05

Dial Hard wrote: »

Because he was stealing from your dad to supplement his income. Take that out of the equation and you'll probably find he's not nearly as flush as you think.

I mean this in the nicest possible way OP, but I think you need to wise up.

He's not supplementing his income and he's not struggling to make ends meet. He's a big drinker and he gambles. To what extent i dont know. I think he's stealing because he's spending his money on addiction like these.

Surely if he can afford these he can afford to setup a monthly payment plan?

ILoveYourVibes

corklily05 wrote: »

He's not supplementing his income and he's not struggling to make ends meet. He's a big drinker and he gambles. To what extent i dont know. I think he's stealing because he's spending his money on addiction like these.

Surely if he can afford these he can afford to setup a monthly payment plan?

What matters most to your Dad the money or his son?

Unless you get an order that allows his wages to be garnished etc. I would say goodbye to the money.

If he has money he'll hide it. Expertly.

If he gambles he probably has debt.

Is it all worth your Dad losing his son??



Stop choosing for him. I know you feel some resentment towards your brother you obviously have no feeling for him way before this. I don't blame you.

But i doubt your father wants to lose his son even after he did this. You might not want to understand this. But you might need to.

Let your father decide what to do. And stop demeaning him saying he is fragile etc. He is still an adult.

If your father wants the money back etc or to confront your brother you stay out of it.

Its between your father and his son.

corklily05

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What matters most to your Dad the money or his son?

Unless you get an order that allows his wages to be garnished etc. I would say goodbye to the money.

If he has money he'll hide it. Expertly.

If he gambles he probably has debt.

Is it all worth your Dad losing his son??



Stop choosing for him. I know you feel some resentment towards your brother you obviously have no feeling for him way before this.

I think that's easy for somebody on the periphery to say. How can my father ever trust him again?

If you can bear with me i'll explain the next course of action in due course. You'll understand when it happens. It may take 1/2 weeks. How am i choosing for him? i've already said that everything i'm doing he's consenting to it without any coersion. I'm not the bad guy in this piece.

Would you trust a criminal no matter who he/she is?

368100

shesty wrote: »

I am actually struggling to understand how both you and your sibling have so much access to your Dad's financial affairs, bank accounts, statements, etc (I understand the card may have been given or a PIN number shared).I thought banks were far more careful with access than that?

However this is a horrible situation .The best you can do I think is make sure your father is the only one with cards and access to the account and most importantly, that he never shares PINs etc.Or that the bank notify him of any "unusual" activity such as spending on odd things like holidays, or amounts over a certain limit or something.Shouldn't be too big an ask for the bank to be honest, because I have often heard of (and experienced) them locking a card or account when a hotel in another country, or a train ticket in another country etc might have been booked for a holiday, and you have to ring to confirm to them what you are doing.It may be the only way to go.Obviously if your Dad then wants to book that stuff himself, he can notify them.

It's a lousy situation OP.

What can a bank do if cards and pins are shared/not kept secure?

368100

corklily05 wrote: »

He's not supplementing his income and he's not struggling to make ends meet. He's a big drinker and he gambles. To what extent i dont know. I think he's stealing because he's spending his money on addiction like these.

Surely if he can afford these he can afford to setup a monthly payment plan?

Is stealing money to gamble not deemed supplementing his income?

I think most have said on the thread, as I did before. Make sure you have all your evidence and are 100% sure of your facts and go talk to the guards.

corklily05

Nothing, they've done all they can about it. I need to keep cards close to my chest on next steps, this isn't over.

@iloveyourvibes, don't you dare come on here and say i'm demeaning my father calling him fragile!! I'm the one looking out for him putting a stop to all this before all his money is gone. If i done nothing do you think it would've stopped or something? Don't accuse me of that again, ever!!

It is personal to me as my own father is being robbed blind by my brother and don't question my motives either. They're all for my father's benefit. If you don't believe that then its your problem

ManOfMystery

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What matters most to your Dad the money or his son?

Unless you get an order that allows his wages to be garnished etc. I would say goodbye to the money.

If he has money he'll hide it. Expertly.

If he gambles he probably has debt.

Is it all worth your Dad losing his son??



Stop choosing for him. I know you feel some resentment towards your brother you obviously have no feeling for him way before this. I don't blame you.

But i doubt your father wants to lose his son even after he did this. You might not want to understand this. But you might need to.

Let your father decide what to do. And stop demeaning him saying he is fragile etc. He is still an adult.

If your father wants the money back etc or to confront your brother you stay out of it.

Its between your father and his son.

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse with your advice?

The OP has already stated that his mother handled the financial affairs in the house until she passed away, so it sounds like his father is not financially minded. He has also stated he is frail, he has made a suicide attempt at some stage, he has had alcohol abuse issues, he is not savvy with technology, online banking and the like, and most importantly - he does not like confrontation.

He is by all accounts obviously a vulnerable person who is in a position where someone could easily take advantage of his finances, and this is what appears to have happened.

Both siblings have a duty of care to their father. On the face of it however, one is ripping him off (to the tune of tens of thousands) and the other is attempting to stop it and safeguard his father.

And your advice is to tell him to stay out of it?

I hope you've ignored this OP. You're doing the right thing, of that I'm 200% sure.

corklily05

@manofmystery, thanks for the backup. I've addressed iloveyourvibes post aswell and it appalls me to think with all the info i have give that somebody would come out and say something like that.

People need to read the posts before commenting

qwerty13

I would be diametrically opposed to most advice ILYV gives. However, there’s a couple of points worth considering in there:
1. My parents are only a decade and a bit older than your Dad OP, and I could envision them prioritising the relationship with the son over money. Not saying I agree with that though.
2. I agree that the past money is gone forever.
3. I think when your clarify your posts, you aren’t dictating/choosing for your Dad. They do read as you marching off down a course of action, the way you first describe them though.

rn

Just to give another neutral view op. It really comes across that you have a personal dislike of your brother. This is distorting your expectations of justice. The cheapest way to resolve all this is as adults, together however that requires huge levels of emotional good will and trust that clearly isn't there.

Just to add another take, when push comes to shove, it's probably unlikely your dad will press charges and likely give retrospective consent to "giving" your sibling the money. There's revenue limits your sibling can receive... It sounds like your sibling has at least a very large retrospective tax bill pending.

Best of luck on your journey. Hope you get it somewhat resolved.

cannotlogin

Try not to let your anger cloud your judgment. I understand you are upset and angry and know I would be the same but it's really coming across at the moment, that your anger is dictating things.

Do not forget your father's wishes in this and try not to let emotions come before logic.

Ursus Horribilis

cannotlogin wrote: »

Do not forget your father's wishes in this and try not to let emotions come before logic.

I agree with this. Even though your father is vulnerable, he still has his dignity. There may come a point where he he will feel that you're trampling all over him. I hope you're using boards as a "safe space" to vent because sometimes you're coming across in a way that would make me bristle if I was your father.

Having said all that, I wish you well in your endeavours to right this wrong and to protect your father. Your brother is a douchbag.

ILoveYourVibes

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Are you trying to be deliberately obtuse with your advice?

Sure we all have different takes on things would be boring otherwise.

Ok well if you (OP) and your father are prepared to say goodbye to your bother and never see him again then report it to the guards.

You have to be prepared never to see your bother again. And your father has to too.

Bring him to court. Its the only legal way to get your father's money back.

Then cut contact with your bro. It will get nasty if you don't. Trust me.

After you confront him etc with a solicitor or the guards your relationship with him and his relationship with his father will probably be over.

Your family will be forever changed.

corklily05

All,

To answer a few queries, yes, i'm using boards as a place to vent. My brother thinks he's untouchable and his arrogance is plain to see. He never taught for a second that he'd ever got caught. i withholding some info that's available on bank statements that i have in my possession that will make this case stone wall. Please understand this as i dont want to give away my trump card.

To give feedback about me losing a brother and my father losing a son, i must stress that all action taken will be my father's way, i will not coerce him into doing something he's not comfortable with. Can i ask genuinely how can my father and i go about this without a big falling out? Do we say nothing and pretend it never happened? If the family is tor apart then there's only one person at blame here and that's my brother.

I've taken a lot of your advise on board and will act on it. But, the actions of my bother are inexcusable and to many i reckon unforgivable. If this was to continue my father could've been completely cleaned out.

Many thanks for your contribution everyone

ILoveYourVibes

corklily05 wrote: »

All,

To answer a few queries, yes, i'm using boards as a place to vent. My brother thinks he's untouchable and his arrogance is plain to see. He never taught for a second that he'd ever got caught. i withholding some info that's available on bank statements that i have in my possession that will make this case stone wall. Please understand this as i dont want to give away my trump card.

To give feedback about me losing a brother and my father losing a son, i must stress that all action taken will be my father's way, i will not coerce him into doing something he's not comfortable with. Can i ask genuinely how can my father and i go about this without a big falling out? Do we say nothing and pretend it never happened? If the family is tor apart then there's only one person at blame here and that's my brother.

I've taken a lot of your advise on board and will act on it. But, the actions of my bother are inexcusable and to many i reckon unforgivable. If this was to continue my father could've been completely cleaned out.

Many thanks for your contribution everyone

May everything turn out for the best op.


I don't want to go into this in detail ...i know someone who went through what you did.

As regards trying to preserve some sort of future relationship I would say this. The more you delegate things to outside parties like the guards the better.

I would put it like this to your sibling. 'This couldn't go on. Its for your own good. We still love you. We want to get you help. But this is beyond us we need professionals'.

I think that is the best you can do.

corklily05

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

May everything turn out for the best op.


I don't want to go into this in detail ...i know someone who went through what you did.

As regards trying to preserve some sort of future relationship I would say this. The more you delegate things to outside parties like the guards the better.

I would put it like this to your sibling. 'This couldn't go on. Its for your own good. We still love you. We want to get you help. But this is beyond us we need professionals'.

I think that is the best you can do.

Many Thanks