Sibling Robbing money from father

corklily05 · 05-08-2019 09:34PM #1

Hi,

I just want to try and get some insight into this. My mother passed away a few years ago, the relationship between my father and mother was very old school, mother handled all the money, ran the house etc..

My dad inherited the money (life insurance) from my mothers death, but even with my dad still working, the amount in his bank account has stagnated for the past 6 years and i've been a bit suspicious over the last few weeks. I admit i should've looked into this a long time ago but he kept on fobbing me off. I eventually had enough and looked into his finances.

Just to let you know, my dad does not drive and is not a big spender. To my amazement while my dad is at work, my dad's ATM card is being used every week in the local petrol station and the local supermarket and also i suspect his ATM card being used for cash back while paying for groceries.

There also has been random unexplained usage of my dad's ATM card in ATM machines where he would never be. My dad is a very trusting person and always left his ATM card where my sibling could get access to it easily. I locked the card and requested a new PIN for the card last week.

I'm going to get bank statements for the past few years and get as much proof as possible, also going to setup internet banking so i can keep an eye on things without my siblings knowledge. I only had access to bank statements for 1 year and 15,000 has been spent in that time, i can only imagine the total amount. My own investigation will continue..

I apologise for long thread, i guess i'm looking for advise here on what else i could do without tearing the family apart? Has anybody else been through this?
I only have 1 sibling and they live close to my dad, i live in another county.

hawley · 05-08-2019 10:45PM

I don't think that there's any need to continue the investigation; it's obvious that your sibling is stealing from your father. I think that you need to bring all the evidence to your father and put measures in place so that the sibling can no longer thieve from him. It will be obvious to your sibling that ye know about the theft if there is no longer any easy access to your father's debit card. I would avoid saying anything to your sibling, it would only inflame the situation and would cause a major split in the family. Like it or not, your father might need that close relationship.

AidoEirE · 05-08-2019 10:51PM

I would confront both at the sane time, get all together and ask whats going on.
Youve gone to get a new card so the sibling will know something is up and presumeably your father will when you give him the new pin.

Confront the sibling with your father and see what the story is.
No point beating around the bush when all parties will know something is up.
Attack it head on.

To be fair, only you know the relationship between father/sibling/yourself so my advice might be a bit full on.
Id rather the full on approach than the gently gently stuff, as it might happen again.

Ursus Horribilis · 05-08-2019 10:55PM

Why do you need to continue your investigation? You seem to have enough proof as it is. Is it because you're dreading having to bring what you know to your father?

I presume he knows you've been looking at his bank statements? If so, just show them to him and say you've noticed all the transactions taking place. Even though you're understandably concerned about what is going on, this isn't your battle to fight. I find it very hard to believe that your father hasn't checked his bank balance or looked at a statement in all this time. He might know this is going on and is turning a blind eye to it.

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 12:02AM

Thanks for replies so far.
I just want to clear a few thing up. My father is well aware that i'm after requesting a new PIN as i bought him to the bank when i did it. My father is also not at all savvy with technology and my sibling exploited this to the full extent. I never mentioned that my sibling also put a holiday on the card, flights/hotels etc..

There is a certain amount of turning a blind eye to it. My father is a frail man who has never liked confrontation of any description. He's been through a good bit of hardship these last few years including an attempt on his life since my mother died.He has also struggled with alcohol.

I feel my father will bury his head in the sand and i know the amount is in the tens of thousands.

A few questions:

Has anybody been through something similar?

Is it worth going to the guards?

Shouldn't my sibling legal or otherwise be made pay back every single cent of what he stole?

06-08-2019 12:07AM

So was your father aware that they were taking money from the account?
If so, there mightnt be a legal avenue unless you went down the path of your dad being of diminished capacity. He would need to be prepared to fully press charges against your sibling, by the sounds of it he may not do that.

What sort of person is your sibling? Do you think they have any conscience of what they've done? Do they think they're entitled to it in some way? Or are they just a bit of a scumbag?

I've had a similar situation with my younger sister, unfortunately she was the latter.

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 12:15AM

Not so much that he was aware, he had full trust in my sibling to handle his finances. He did get suspicious a few weeks back when my sibling started to encourage him to start using his card more and to hols on to his cash. But, as i said, he was trusting and never thought that this would happen.

My sibling plays all the angles and makes decisions on whats in it for him. I have suspicions that he's a heavy gambler and is fond of the drink aswell. They put on a charm when he needs to so very few people know whats they're really like. Conscience? As my dad said, he feels they're some sort of carer for him so they feel a sense of entitlement to this money.

I want to make it clear that there was never a time where my dad gave consent for my sibling to use his card and NEVER thought my sibling would steal from him. To say my father is in shock is an understatement and is very cut up over the whole thing. Its killing me to see him like this

06-08-2019 12:25AM

What would be the reaction if you confronted your sibling? Sounds like you have plenty of proof.

If that doesn't go well then your next port of call is the guards, but again, they'll need your dad to press charges for anything to be done.

It should be reported to the bank too, theres a chance they might refund some of it as fraud. But you'll need the crime reference number for the guards to get them to take it on.

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 12:30AM

Total Denial if i was to confront him, they'll be like "what would i be doing with the card". they made some other moves before like buying a paper shredder to shred all the bank documents. It all makes so much sense now. I live away so don't see as much of whats going on. I know its my dad that will have to go the legal route but i just don't think he has the bottle for it

Other than the denial they'll say "i'm the one that's always around" so there'll definitely be a sense on entitlement.

sabat · 06-08-2019 12:39AM

What does your dad do for money? Is it a case of them being tasked with his shopping etc and helping themselves to top-ups? €300 a week isn't huge if it includes your dad's outgoings.

Ursus Horribilis · 06-08-2019 12:49AM

I think you need legal advice. I don't mean to attack you here but you are drip feeding us information. It's very hard to give advice when the story changes with every update. There is no "nice" way to deal with this problem and it probably is going to cause a huge rift in the family. If you're intent on pursuing this, then random strangers on boards probably aren't the best people to advise.

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 12:51AM

Hi Sabat,

My dad works for the council, he's closing in on retirement but working full time. My sibling is stealing his wages. My dad does not task my sibling with getting his food shopping, he does his own. 1 year alone my sibling stole 15,000 off my dad, add that up over 6 years which i will get proof off is 90,000 which is a lot of money.

Can you please edit your post to they, as i don't want to give away gender of sibling. I've gone back and corrected my part. 300 a week dosen't include my fathers outgoings, and thats just a normal week. When my sibling put hols on the card they were stealing over 1000 in a week.

The amount hardly matters sabat? The fact that this is a weekly occurance and tens of thousands have been stolen does matter

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 12:55AM

@ ursus horbillis my intention is not to change anything. I dont think i'm drip feeding you the info. Longand short of it is, my sibling is robbing money off my father and my father is very upset over it. I'm wondering about the best way to get the money back that has been stolen from my father (if possible). Or whether or not to persue legal action?

There's no way somebody should get way with this

sabat · 06-08-2019 01:20AM

Sorry I was just trying to clarify whether it was entitled occasional pilfering or wholesale theft (which it is.) I think you should print off all of the statements for all the years and show them to your father so he can see the full extent of it in black and white. After that it's up to him what he wants to do vis-a-vis the law but in any case make sure your sibling never sees the (new) card or has any dealings with his finances ever again. I'd also run your father's details through the credit bureau to see if any loans have been applied for and to inform the bank to put a note on the account about what's happened.

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 01:42AM

Thanks sabat, very helpful

qwerty13 · 06-08-2019 05:02AM

Are you really sure that your parent and sibling don’t gave some sort of arrangement/agreement going on?

You said that your sibling lives near, and you live in another county. Is there any chance that your sibling does stuff for you father that you’re just not aware of? I kinda doubt it - but it’s worth considering, before accusations of stealing

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 05:07AM

@ qwerty13, sibling does nothing! I dont really understand where you're going with the question. My sibling does not have the right to use my fathers ATM card without consent and rob him blind.

I have spoken to my father about this and he cant believe its happened. Please read back on previous posts.

Even if he does do stuff, he still has no right. He's a thief full stop

qwerty13 · 06-08-2019 05:10AM

I have read previous posts.

My question is very simple: it is whether there are arrangements / understandings with your sibling that you are unaware of.

This can sometimes happen, where a parent makes an unofficial arrangement with the nearest child. I don’t think my question was exactly an alien one. I understand that it’s an emotional issue for you, but all logical angles need to be fully considered before you accuse your sibling of criminal activity

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 05:11AM

NO!! Absolutely NOT!!

qwerty13 · 06-08-2019 05:17AM

Ok. I’m not accusing you of anything. I’m merely suggesting that you explore all avenues before you accuse your sibling of criminal activity

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 05:25AM

I know and i understand why you asked. I've asked my father have you ever given any sort of verbal consent for my sibling to use the card or anything like it and he said no way!! I believe him.

Also, its the underhanded way of going about their business, my sibling knows my father does not have internet banking and never pays any attention to bank statements. All the stealing is done while my dad is at work. The card is put back is the same place so my father is none the wiser.

I didn't mean to come across as abrupt, i understand you're trying to help

ScottCapper · 06-08-2019 05:28AM

What a snake. Hope your father gets the money back

qwerty13 · 06-08-2019 05:31AM

You did come across as quite abrupt.

But I totally understand that that you are so upset over how your sibling has treated your parent. I just wanted to bring the point up re whether you were really sure that there wasn’t some sort of weird understanding going on.

So now that that point is out of the way, you parent has been too trusting. But future financial transactions are now secured. What does your parent feel about past financial transactions?

qwerty13 · 06-08-2019 05:34AM

Personally, I couldn’t cope with the sibling who did this - but it is actually up to your parent.

corklily05 · 06-08-2019 06:36AM

Apologies again, my father is a frail man who has a history of burying his head in the sand. As he said himself "you hear about this all the time on the radio and you never think it'll come to your own front door". He's very disappointed in my sibling and i reckon he hasn't processed this at all yet.

This has all happened in the past week or so, and is fully complying with what i'm doing so far. Getting a new PIN etc.. Thing is now is trying to keep my sibling from manipulating the PIN out of him. Also, trying to prove it will be tough as even though my sibling is a theif, you'd stiil have to go to the guards and get a court order for CCTV footage of him carrying out the act to prove anything.

This would mean family torn apart, as i live in another county my dad in later years might be dependent on my sibling. This might mean i would have to give up my life and move home, which will take some planning as i own a home in the county i live in.

I also think my dad dosen't have the bottle to pursue this. I'm very torn!

hawley · 06-08-2019 06:50AM

I think that you need to look at it from the angle of "How am I going to prevent this happening in the future?". It doesn't seem like your father would want to take a case against his child. Is there any relation who you trust, that you could involve in this? I would be worried that your sibling might start bullying your father. Your sibling sounds quite aggressive, so it would be useful if your father had someone he could call on. How about getting your father to keep a log of every financial transaction he makes in future. Maybe you could set up a second bank account and if you had access to the online codes, your father could ring you and ask you to transfer e100 in the second account as he needs to withdraw money. Cut up the card linked to the main account, but that account can still be used for direct debits etc.

qwerty13 · 06-08-2019 06:57AM

No apologies necessary. I understand better where you’re coming from now - and how upset you and your parent must be.

In my opinion, the most important things to do is what you are already doing: reassuring your Dad, and preventing this from happening in the future. I don’t know how to convince him not to hand over his card / PIN number, but it is imperative that he doesn’t. No ‘loans’, no temporary money, no sob stories. I don’t know what his overall financial situation is like, but could he start telling sibling how worried he is re his finances in his old age? - not ideal, but I gather he’s unlikely to meet this situation head-on.

I’m afraid I think it’s unlikely that he’ll ever recover the money from your sibling. And that it is best to write that off if he can afford to do so

qwerty13 · 06-08-2019 07:03AM

That is an excellent idea from Hawley re a 2nd account, with only enough for your Dad’s day to day living expenses in it. A card/PIN for this account - and the account with the bulk of the money outside of horrible sibling’s access.

qwerty13 · 06-08-2019 07:06AM

And not to scare you, but if your Dad is an old school gentleman, you might need to keep an eye on whether he is being pressured/guilted into signing property over to horrible sibling. Your Dad may need this asset in the future to fund his own care as he gets older.

OUTDOORLASS · 06-08-2019 09:13AM

I would also suggest you talk to your Dad about getting Enduring Power of Attorney.
If anything happens to your Dad in the future, it would ensure that only the best
decision is made for your Dad. If your Dad ever became non Compos Mentis it would
ensure your sibling would not have control of your Dads money/assets.

LegacyUser · 06-08-2019 10:25AM

Could you set up a Revolut account and card for him linked to his bank card but with the app on your phone. That way you can hold onto his card and top up as required and any spending on it will send an instant notification to the app on your phone?

Sibling Robbing money from father

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