Ireland agrees to plan on migrant resettlement

Nesta2018

The Irish Times has nonsensical articles like this on a weekly basis.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/we-cannot-get-sick-here-it-will-spread-norman-lives-with-19-others-in-phibsborough-1.4244504

Norman's family have previously been economic migrants, going to the US to avail of better maternity services when his mother was pregnant with twins - reading between the lines it looks like they had to return to Honduras as they were not legal migrants. It's pretty obvious that his plans were to overstay his visa and work fulltime in Ireland like so many students in dodgy language schools. There's a whole lot of verbiage about why Honduras is a terrible unsafe place where you can't walk down the street, as well as having a terrible health service.

So which is it? Is Norman an asylum seeker, an economic migrant or a true language student who has scrimped and saved to study in a language school thousands of miles away and not in the United States, which is far closer but which has far tougher immigration laws and procedures? Pollak (as with all of her IT pieces) deliberately fudges the three categories. I'm sure Norman is a perfectly nice guy but why no questions about his intentions? Why no inquiries about the slumlord who is packing 19 people into his house? Or about networks which find Norman a job immediately, are there human trafficking gangs who exploit those without work visas? Why on earth would Norman be entitled to the Covid-19 payment of €350 a week when he's never worked here? What impact does all this have on the average Irish low-paid worker?

There is just absolutely zero journalism going on here and RTE is the same.

Cordell

There's no need to read between the lines, it's clear from the first paragraphs, they used the English school loophole to gain entry.

Having lived in the US for two years as a child, Ayala already spoke very good English

Clarence Boddiker

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/applications-for-asylum-in-ireland-decrease-significantly-1.4249956?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Ebun Joseph and Ronit Lentin must be scaring everybody off with their depiction of the place as Nazi Germany's evil twin!

Lentin called Ireland a "white supremacist nation" the other night on a livestream.
She also said we needed immigrants from Africa to "wipe our arses"

Mr. Karate

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Lentin called Ireland a "white supremacist nation" the other night on a livestream.
She also said we needed immigrants from Africa to "wipe our arses"

Someone is clearly overestimating their worth to Ireland. We can deport every African in Ireland back to Africa and we wouldn't notice any difference.

Tea drinker

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Lentin called Ireland a "white supremacist nation" the other night on a livestream.
She also said we needed immigrants from Africa to "wipe our arses"

Wow, The Gemma O' Doherty of the left

Rodin

Nesta2018 wrote: »

The Irish Times has nonsensical articles like this on a weekly basis.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/we-cannot-get-sick-here-it-will-spread-norman-lives-with-19-others-in-phibsborough-1.4244504

Norman's family have previously been economic migrants, going to the US to avail of better maternity services when his mother was pregnant with twins - reading between the lines it looks like they had to return to Honduras as they were not legal migrants. It's pretty obvious that his plans were to overstay his visa and work fulltime in Ireland like so many students in dodgy language schools. There's a whole lot of verbiage about why Honduras is a terrible unsafe place where you can't walk down the street, as well as having a terrible health service.

So which is it? Is Norman an asylum seeker, an economic migrant or a true language student who has scrimped and saved to study in a language school thousands of miles away and not in the United States, which is far closer but which has far tougher immigration laws and procedures? Pollak (as with all of her IT pieces) deliberately fudges the three categories. I'm sure Norman is a perfectly nice guy but why no questions about his intentions? Why no inquiries about the slumlord who is packing 19 people into his house? Or about networks which find Norman a job immediately, are there human trafficking gangs who exploit those without work visas? Why on earth would Norman be entitled to the Covid-19 payment of €350 a week when he's never worked here? What impact does all this have on the average Irish low-paid worker?

There is just absolutely zero journalism going on here and RTE is the same.

Why does a fluent English speaker need to go to an English language school?

Nesta2018

Rodin wrote: »

Why does a fluent English speaker need to go to an English language school?

It's never asked, is it? It's obvious from his refusal to return home when the language school closed, that his aim was to stay here, probably working in the black economy for some years and eventually getting leave to remain from having sat it out, like so many others. And who can blame him for wanting a better life?

That's not the point though. We don't owe him anything. We don't need this endless influx of people from low wage economies driving down the pay and conditions of Irish people and putting a strain on housing, health and welfare. And just to add, I don't have any sympathy either for Irish people who do the same in the US or Australia, knowing the rules and hoping to get round them. The difference is, you will be treated much more harshly if you're found to be breaking their immigration laws, and will be booted out immediately. Ireland is a soft touch and the word has got out. Imagine if the Irish Times had an actual journalist on that story.

Clarence Boddiker

Tea drinker wrote: »

Wow, The Gemma O' Doherty of the left

Fair comparison, except Lentin is entrenched within the Irish establishment, has considerable influence and has been paid a fortune on the taxpayer dime over decades.
Also I don't see anyone withing the media or political class attacking her or her extreme racist anti white ideas.

Jamie2k9

DelaneyIn wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/applications-for-asylum-in-ireland-decrease-significantly-1.4249956?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Ebun Joseph and Ronit Lentin must be scaring everybody off with their depiction of the place as Nazi Germany's evil twin!

Just to pick up on this:

After news of the operation targeting Albanians and Georgians emerged in The Irish Times late last year, it was soon discontinued though the number of applications for protection from people of either nationality has been very low.

This is completely untrue, it was only ever planned as short term measure as its very resourceful operation and not sustainable long term. Other resources were put in place which have helped reduce numbers as did the high profile flight sending them back.

Kivaro

As talks continue to lure the Green Party into a new government formation, yesterday the Finance Minister outlined what we have ahead of us on the economic front ............. a prolonged recession similar to the 1980's.

Today, the exploratory talks focus on "Justice", and the primary request from the Greens on this topic is the closure of Direct Provision centres. One would have to wonder about the other "Justice" concerns that the vast majority of the Irish population would like them to focus on e.g. the attacks on the elderly and vulnerable in rural locations all over the country by Traveler gangs, the ludicrous situation of repeat offenders committing hundreds of crimes with little to no punishment/deterrent, the inadequate response from the judiciary to criminal offenses that causes enormous strife to victims who are victimised again by inappropriate lenient sentencing from judges, etc. etc. etc.

But no, for the Green Party, Justice = closure of Direct Provision centres.
So they want us (the contributing members of Irish society) to pay for houses/apartments to those Nigerians, Pakistanis, and the citizens of other far flung countries, who pay sizeable amounts of money to fly into Ireland and bypassing other safe countries in order to claim asylum here.

The Green Party also want to increase the billions that the Irish worker is already paying into the building of new social houses/apartments, so I presume that new asylum seekers flying into Dublin will receive one of these brand new homes. So with an upcoming recession that will result in hundreds of thousands of people in Ireland essentially becoming poor due to the lack of work, economic migrants will have a superior standard of living the minute they arrive in the country and declare that they are asylum seekers.

If Direct Provision centres end, it will result in a substantial increase of asylum requests. Can you blame people in Zimbabwe wanting to come to Ireland when they hear not only of the welfare-for-life situation in Ireland, but also the reunification program where their elderly relatives can also come to Ireland and receive the non-contributory pension, and if Direct Provision centres ends they will also be given free homes immediately.

It is economically and socially unsustainable. We just cannot afford it anymore.

enricoh

Well kivaro at least it'll help the airlines if we abolish direct provision and house them as soon as they land. Extra flights will have to be put on to cope - dunno if the greens like that though!

Heard on the radio yesterday best case scenario is 23billion of a hole in finances this year for the government. Sure what's another couple of billion!

Tea drinker

BarnardsLoop wrote: »

Reading threads like this is always such a fascinating insight into just how out of touch this forum is with Irish society. You'd think every person in the country was on an IV of American right-wing Youtubers, the way you lot carry on.

RTE news having segments on direct provision is why people don't like it? Christ, the desperate attempts to cram such obviously American talking points into our society is nothing short of laughable.

Here's some free advice: get off the computers and phones, go out, talk to some real people. We don't ****e on about 'virtue signalling' and ****e like that.

While your advice is good in some respects, it also infers that the *online space* should be left to the demented/creepy anti white male posters to reign supreme and unashamedly project their wapred views into the psyche of kids who are far more connected than the parents.
Conversely after that, you are still right, online is becoming very toxic especially for men and taking a break is good for the mental health

Kivaro

I saw on Virgin Media news at 5:30 pm the story about the ending of the isolation period at the direct provision centre in Cahirciveen. The report showed Africans celebrating coming out of the building after 14 days isolation.
Charlie Flanagan wrote a letter "apologising for what has unfolded at the controversial direct provision centre in Cahirciveen."

The town went into lockdown on March 12, but Flanagan saw fit to send asylum seekers from hotels around Dublin to the small Kerry town on March 18th ....... at the start of the Irish pandemic. At least a quarter of these asylum seekers tested positive for Covid-19.
There was zero communication with the local community when they moved the asylum seekers to Cahirciveen, but according to the examiner today: "the department had visited the hotel with a view to using it as a centre some six months earlier which would have left ample time for consultation with the community."

Fair play to VM1 news for showing interviews this evening with local residents who requested that the direct provision centre be shut down. However Dictator Minister Flanagan said that the centre will stay in operation and will not shut down. Meanwhile, as expected, Labour Party Justice spokesman Seán Sherlock called on Mr Flanagan to apologise to the residents of the direct provision centre, and of course there was no mention from Labour of an apology to the people of Cahirciveen who had no say in the matter, as is the case for many small communities around the country who are forced to accept disproportionate numbers of asylum seekers without adequate local resources.

There is very interesting reading in the Examiner article about Michael Healy Rae's involvement/knowledge of the sale of the hotel to a Direct Provision "businessman". Seems he was not being truthful on knowing about the future purpose of the hotel back in December, but later he was calling for the converted Direct Provision hotel to be shut down.

Irish politics stinks to high heaven.

Kivaro

So the Cahersiveen story certainly has legs.
From the Examiner today: "A complaint has been lodged with the clerk of the Dáil over the failure of Michael Healy Rae to declare his interest in the company that ran the hotel in Caherciveen, Co Kerry at the centre of the controversy about a direct provision centre."

The bauld Michael Healy Rae, the people's saviour, demanding that the Direct Provision centre be closed on a number of occasions, had invested €25,000 in the hotel, before it was sold to a Direct Provision businessman. Don't forget, the Government had previously looked at the hotel 6 months prior to moving the asylum seekers from Dublin in March, so knowledge of a prospective deal might have been available to people in the know.

Oireachtas members are obliged to declare any shareholding greater than €13,000 in value, but Healy Rae must have forgotten about this investment, as he did not declare it.
Yesterday, local people and asylum seekers held a march to call for the centre to be shut down. But Minister Flanagan has already vehemently declared that it will remain open no matter what.

“Ethics in politics needs a major overhaul,” Norma Burke told the Examiner. She was the person who filed the complaint against Healy Rae.
Fair play to her.

Patrick2010

RTÉ had a feature on Bundoran last night which included interviews with former students of the local English college which had to close because of the Covid crisis. Interestingly they all had perfect English.

Blueshoe

Kivaro wrote: »

So the Cahersiveen story certainly has legs.
From the Examiner today: "A complaint has been lodged with the clerk of the Dáil over the failure of Michael Healy Rae to declare his interest in the company that ran the hotel in Caherciveen, Co Kerry at the centre of the controversy about a direct provision centre."

The bauld Michael Healy Rae, the people's saviour, demanding that the Direct Provision centre be closed on a number of occasions, had invested €25,000 in the hotel, before it was sold to a Direct Provision businessman. Don't forget, the Government had previously looked at the hotel 6 months prior to moving the asylum seekers from Dublin in March, so knowledge of a prospective deal might have been available to people in the know.

Oireachtas members are obliged to declare any shareholding greater than €13,000 in value, but Healy Rae must have forgotten about this investment, as he did not declare it.
Yesterday, local people and asylum seekers held a march to call for the centre to be shut down. But Minister Flanagan has already vehemently declared that it will remain open no matter what.

“Ethics in politics needs a major overhaul,” Norma Burke told the Examiner. She was the person who filed the complaint against Healy Rae.
Fair play to her.

Where are the locals and asylum seekers suggesting to be used as alternative accommodation

Kivaro

Blueshoe wrote: »

Where are the locals and asylum seekers suggesting to be used as alternative accommodation

Both groups are suggesting that it was an appalling decision to move asylum seekers from Dublin to a small rural town during the middle of a worldwide deadly pandemic. 4 of the asylum seekers immediately returned to Dublin by themselves after being brought down to Caherciveen.

Blueshoe

Kivaro wrote: »

Both groups are suggesting that it was an appalling decision to move asylum seekers from Dublin to a small rural town during the middle of a worldwide deadly pandemic. 4 of the asylum seekers immediately returned to Dublin by themselves after being brought down to Caherciveen.

I thought they were protesting for the centre to be closed.
The first question that comes to mind is ok if we close it where do you suggest they go?

Topgear on Dave

Patrick2010 wrote: »

RTÉ had a feature on Bundoran last night which included interviews with former students of the local English college which had to close because of the Covid crisis. Interestingly they all had perfect English.

Like the guy in the Irish times last week.

It shows you how good these English colleges are doesn't it

Kivaro

Blueshoe wrote: »

I thought they were protesting for the centre to be closed.
The first question that comes to mind is ok if we close it where do you suggest they go?

With the collapse of the AirBnb market, there are plenty of available hotel rooms and other suitable lodging for them in Dublin. That is where they want to be. That is why 4 of them returned by themselves to Dublin just after arriving in Cahersiveen. Seems to be plenty of free movement allowed for them, while the rest of us are locked down to 5 km.

BakingSoda

According to my friend who is back with his family in the countryside (won't say where as its a small town) the migrants are really settling well into the community. I think he said they were from Ethiopia or countries surrounding there.

Some of the families teenage kids have been helping run errands for the more elderly in his town and a few were even turning up to GAA trainings before the country was locked down!

ThunbergsAreGo

Kivaro wrote: »

With the collapse of the AirBnb market, there are plenty of available hotel rooms and other suitable lodging for them in Dublin. That is where they want to be. That is why 4 of them returned by themselves to Dublin just after arriving in Cahersiveen. Seems to be plenty of free movement allowed for them, while the rest of us are locked down to 5 km.

Isn't the extra supply of air bnbs meant to help the rent/housing crisis?

Can't have it every way

Kivaro

Don't know how many of us believe the story about Ethiopian teenage migrants running "errands" for the local elderly in the Irish countryside. But a friend told the poster, so .......

Reminds me of the time when an RTE radio presenter went ballistic on the radio last year when one of the complaints by a small town where asylum seekers were housed was that they (mostly young men) were just hanging around the town, which resulted in an air of intimidation of the locals. The presenter blamed the local GAA club for this. She said that small towns around Ireland were "crying" about the loss of their young people due to the lack of jobs, so these GAA clubs should be recruiting the asylum seekers to play with them.

She was so far detached from reality of the situation on the ground. But then again, she works for RTE.

CrankyHaus

Those condescending assertions on the transparent incorruptibility of the DP tenders from Schrodinger's Cat and his sidekick a couple of weeks ago have really aged like milk.

I'm curious to see if they, or any other representatives of the asylum industry, will be coming on to defend the unimpeachable ethics of the Healy Raes. Strange bedfellows Indeed.

double jobbing

Nesta2018 wrote: »

The Irish Times has nonsensical articles like this on a weekly basis.


There is just absolutely zero journalism going on here and RTE is the same.

The people in this article don't even go to the bother of pretending they are actually fleeing any danger, the asylum claim is openly one of purely economic convenience. Claimed asylum, returned home before the claim was heard, didn't like home, returned here and were aghast to find their asylum claim hadn't been frozen in time, but were allowed to lodge a new one anyway.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/i-ve-been-made-to-feel-like-i-don-t-belong-in-ireland-1.4029874

That's far from the first dubious story this puff piece weekly article has covered. I seem to recall a mixed nationality couple who had met in Saudi Arabia claiming asylum because they claimed neither would be allowed to settle in their partner's home country so Ireland was the mutually acceptable solution.

weldoninhio

I see the Sunday World is the latest with an illegal immigration sob story. “Hard-working immigrant could lose livelihood”.

Takeaway owner who used false documents to get citizenship was caught when his ex-wife ratted him out is due to be jailed for a year and is waiting for INIS to make a decision. What’s to wait for? He’s been convicted of lying, we shouldn’t even be jailing him, he should have been brought from the court to the airport!!!

Nesta2018

double jobbing wrote: »

The people in this article don't even go to the bother of pretending they are actually fleeing any danger, the asylum claim is openly one of purely economic convenience. Claimed asylum, returned home before the claim was heard, didn't like home, returned here and were aghast to find their asylum claim hadn't been frozen in time, but were allowed to lodge a new one anyway.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/i-ve-been-made-to-feel-like-i-don-t-belong-in-ireland-1.4029874

That's far from the first dubious story this puff piece weekly article has covered. I seem to recall a mixed nationality couple who had met in Saudi Arabia claiming asylum because they claimed neither would be allowed to settle in their partner's home country so Ireland was the mutually acceptable solution.

I would say most of the people featured in that series have very dubious stories if you ask the most basic of questions, which she never does. Pollak is the daughter of journalists Doireann Ni Bhriain and Andy Pollak, like Kitty Holland she is clueless, privileged and nepotistically promoted beyond her abilities.

Blueshoe

1.3 billion has so far been the cost of direct provision to Irish taxpayers.

Great value for money.

Kivaro

Blueshoe wrote: »

1.3 billion has so far been the cost of direct provision to Irish taxpayers.

Great value for money.

No, not true.
The bill for the direct provision system is much higher than €1.3bn.
See the linked article a few pages back.
And then you have the cost of the multiple appeals per asylum seeker until the government gives up and grants them leave to remain.
And then you have all the other ancillary costs associated with the services provided to asylum seekers e.g. mental health provision, medical services etc. etc.

The asylum process in Ireland is completely dysfunctional; both for the asylum seeker and the tax payer. It needs to be completely revamped from the ground up to give both parties a fairer and less costly system that hands down final decisions in a reasonable amount of time.
However, due to the vested interests of the asylum industry (Direct Provision "businessmen", the solicitors who are making millions in the Irish courts, and of course the asylum NGO CEOs, etc.), any changes to the current system will be hard fought against, as there is too much money being made by them at the moment.

Kivaro

This morning's RTE daily update on Direct Provision centres highlighted the "appalling" conditions that included heroin use at the centres.
Just curious: Is the purchase of heroin in Ireland illegal?
One would imagine that if an asylum seeker was fleeing war and famine and threats on their lives etc. that they would not be involved in criminal activity while their asylum claims are being processed in the country that is providing them with refuge.

In other good news from RTE today, they reported that the fiscal watchdog has warned that taxes will have to increase if the new government continues with the spending of billions of euros on social housing. So while RTE are demanding that all asylum applicants flying into the country should receive free homes immediately, it will involve an even more draconian tax rate for the workers of the country in order to pay for the provision of free homes.