Water charges for excessive usage

Brendan Bendar

charlie14 wrote: »

My post that you refer to had nothing to do with whether metering was either good or bad.


It was in relation to your reply, and apparent agreement with another poster, that like many pro water charges supporters based on nothing other than hearsay innuendo and imagination that a sizeable cohort, "who operate on the fringes", refused to "engage" with Irish Water as a tax dodge for financial gain.


I simply pointed out that rather than hearsay innuendo and imagination, the fact is that one of the main financial benefactors, who was very much engaged with Irish Water, (and now the National broadband Plan), is a tax exile. Someone who along with a previous FG Minister has a prior adverse Tribunal finding in relation to a major State contract. A finding that has the ramification to cost this State potentially Billions in compensation from an ongoing court case.


Would it not be best for the sake of discussion and debate if we stuck to facts rather than baseless flights of fantasy on " sizable cohorts"

It was a valid question all the same.

What’s being discussed here is the efficacy of water meters to measure usage not conspiracy theories and personal vendettas on people who may or may not have broken any laws, who may or may not live abroad, or the intention of the govt to do anything or everything with Irish Water as an entity either now or in the future.

Every discussion with some people seems to always end up down one rabbit hole either Malta or Tipperary.

charlie14

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

It was a valid question all the same.

What’s being discussed here is the efficacy of water meters to measure usage not conspiracy theories and personal vendettas on people who may or may not have broken any laws, who may or may not live abroad, or the intention of the govt to do anything or everything with Irish Water as an entity either now or in the future.

Every discussion with some people seems to always end up down one rabbit hole either Malta or Tipperary.

A bit rich from someone where practically every one of posts contains groundless innuendos on many who refused to "engage" with Irish Water as a cohort of tax dodgers. Yet at the same time wants no mention of a tax exile with an adverse tribunal finding who benefited financially.


Will you ever get up the yard Brendan.

Brendan Bendar

charlie14 wrote: »

A bit rich from someone where practically every one of posts contains groundless innuendos on many who refused to "engage" with Irish Water as a cohort of tax dodgers. Yet at the same time wants no mention of a tax exile with an adverse tribunal finding who benefited financially.


Will you ever get up the yard Brendan.

Very difficult to accept that criticism.

It would disturb me to think I was promulgating innuendos of that nature.

I prefer to approach the issue from a practical point of view,not hauling stuff about ‘Dinny’ and other luminaries.

I do accept that the project was badly handled, very badly handled, but I always found it strange that there was such a kickback against a fairly low key charge.

I do wonder why such a backlash was launched.

charlie14

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Very difficult to accept that criticism.

It would disturb me to think I was promulgating innuendos of that nature.

I prefer to approach the issue from a practical point of view,not hauling stuff about ‘Dinny’ and other luminaries.

I do accept that the project was badly handled, very badly handled, but I always found it strange that there was such a kickback against a fairly low key charge.

I do wonder why such a backlash was launched.

You were not promulgating.
Promulgating refers to the distribution of information.


What you have been doing is propagating the spread of baseless innuendos and conjecture about this supposed cohort of yours in relation to their tax affairs. Yet you are happy to ignore the tax affairs and factual dodgy dealings of those you describe as luminaries, and believe all others should do the same.

Brendan Bendar

charlie14 wrote: »

You were not promulgating.
Promulgating refers to the distribution of information.


What you have been doing is propagating the spread of baseless innuendos and conjecture about this supposed cohort of yours in relation to their tax affairs. Yet you are happy to ignore the tax affairs and factual dodgy dealings of those you describe as luminaries, and believe all others should do the same.

Incorrect Charles, just like yourself, you have tried to hammer the people who you think are the people to be challenged here.

Practically every one of your posts drift down to two individuals who you think are the archetypal villains of this issue, and a particular political party.

You disregard the value of water meters in the blind ambition to try to take down FG, Dinny, Lowry, Siteserv, and anyone who for some reason has a bile ridden desire to ride roughshod over what is best for our state.

charlie14

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Incorrect Charles, just like yourself, you have tried to hammer the people who you think are the people to be challenged here.

Practically every one of your posts drift down to two individuals who you think are the archetypal villains of this issue, and a particular political party.

You disregard the value of water meters in the blind ambition to try to take down FG, Dinny, Lowry, Siteserv, and anyone who for some reason has a bile ridden desire to ride roughshod over what is best for our state.

Unlike you Brendan when I have expressed my views on why this very expensive fiasco should fail, and did, I have not generalise using terms like cohorts.
It had nothing do with your so called blind ambition. Far as I`m concerned it had nothing to do with being best for the state, and FG are quite deserving of criticism in that regard imo.

Unlike you I would be very reticent to describe anything concerning O`Brien or Lowry as best for the state, where due to a Tribunal findings against both, this state is defending a court case with the potential to cost the taxpayer Billions.
As to Siteserv. Another commission of inquiry involving O`Brien is about the best that can be said for it.

Brendan Bendar

charlie14 wrote: »

Unlike you Brendan when I have expressed my views on why this very expensive fiasco should fail, and did, I have not generalise using terms like cohorts.
It had nothing do with your so called blind ambition. Far as I`m concerned it had nothing to do with being best for the state, and FG are quite deserving of criticism in that regard imo.

Unlike you I would be very reticent to describe anything concerning O`Brien or Lowry as best for the state, where due to a Tribunal findings against both, this state is defending a court case with the potential to cost the taxpayer Billions.
As to Siteserv. Another commission of inquiry involving O`Brien is about the best that can be said for it.

And you hammer hard on all that and ignore the value of a unit which measures potable water usage.

Eh...... keep on truckin’

charlie14

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

And you hammer hard on all that and ignore the value of a unit which measures potable water usage.

Eh...... keep on truckin’

I wouldn`t say I hammered hard on anyone involved that I didn`t feel deserved it. Neither did I resort to terms like cohorts. I named who I felt deserving and why.

Has it escaped your notice that those measuring units were a pointless waste of a fortune that could and should have been used to repair mains and conserve this potable water ?
A borrowed fortune into the bargain, during one of the worst recessions in this country`s history.

Rather than getting what we were promised, we got a cart before a horse.

Benedict

No disrespect to CV victims (our hearts go out to them) but at least it has blown apart the daftest plan in the history of mankind - namely the "water charges" plan. In fact I imagine IW themselves have breathed a sigh of relief because they were having to defend a plan which was beyond laughable - even having to insist that it was possible to measure water usage without meters while also insisting that installing them was necessary.

The water charges plan has finally been put out of its misery by a virus of all things - so IW have some time now to draw up a new plan.

Let's hope it's not as ridiculous as the last one so that those of us who are prepared to pay, can do so without feeling like eejits for doing so!

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

No disrespect to CV victims (our hearts go out to them) but at least it has blown apart the daftest plan in the history of mankind - namely the "water charges" plan. In fact I imagine IW themselves have breathed a sigh of relief because they were having to defend a plan which was beyond laughable - even having to insist that it was possible to measure water usage without meters while also insisting that installing them was necessary.

The water charges plan has finally been put out of its misery by a virus of all things - so IW have some time now to draw up a new plan.

Let's hope it's not as ridiculous as the last one so that those of us who are prepared to pay, can do so without feeling like eejits for doing so!

Have you a source for these claims?

All that’s been in the news regarding Irish Water is their plea to conserve.

Many extra taxes are coming down the line. Don’t be surprised if water charges for all are on the cards.

charlie14

Benedict wrote: »

No disrespect to CV victims (our hearts go out to them) but at least it has blown apart the daftest plan in the history of mankind - namely the "water charges" plan. In fact I imagine IW themselves have breathed a sigh of relief because they were having to defend a plan which was beyond laughable - even having to insist that it was possible to measure water usage without meters while also insisting that installing them was necessary.

The water charges plan has finally been put out of its misery by a virus of all things - so IW have some time now to draw up a new plan.

Let's hope it's not as ridiculous as the last one so that those of us who are prepared to pay, can do so without feeling like eejits for doing so!

Never underestimate Irish Water`s willingness to exploit any headline. Be that too much rain, not enough rain or anything in between.
I heard them on the radio just this week saying they were short of water because of Covid-19 hygiene during lockdown.
Seems with all business`s shut we are using much more water,:rolleyes:

Yellow_Fern

charlie14 wrote: »

Never underestimate Irish Water`s willingness to exploit any headline. Be that too much rain, not enough rain or anything in between.
I heard them on the radio just this week saying they were short of water because of Covid-19 hygiene during lockdown.
Seems with all business`s shut we are using much more water,:rolleyes:

Never underestimate Irish peoples to waste and generate filth.

Topgear on Dave

Its hasn't rained lately at all, has it?

charlie14

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Never underestimate Irish peoples to waste and generate filth.

Wasting water must be a new phenomena Irish Water have uncovered due to Covid-19. As a nation we didn`t waste water before it appeared.

charlie14

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Its hasn't rained lately at all, has it?

Indeed it has been lovely dry weather for the past while, but nary a mention by Irish Water.
Covid-19 the problem. In context I thought it crass, but to each their own it seems where Irish Water utterances is concerned

Bass Reeves

I hear the Greens want a water charges structure put in place as part of the agreement

charlie14

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I hear the Greens want a water charges structure put in place as part of the agreement

No surprise that they may throwing that in the mix.
How serious they are is another thing.
Politically their main worry is losing support to Sinn Fein, so water charges would not help them there.
Handy arse covering though on the, "Jeez folks we tried to get it in there, but sure ye know yourselves, ye never get everything ye want in these dealings, blah blah..."

Benedict

Most people accept the need for conservation and "save the planet" blah blah. But remember that IW started installing meters and when they were half way through, they simply packed it in so that those without meters couldn't get one even if they wanted one.

Don't believe that? OK! Phone IW and tell them you don't have a meter and you want one. I guarantee you won't get one! Because they don't do installations any more. And they're pretending that they can assess your usage without one.

So why did they spend all that money on meters in the first place?

You couldn't make it up!

Brendan Bendar

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I hear the Greens want a water charges structure put in place as part of the agreement

If it’s not ‘everybody pays’ or ‘nobody pays’ no exceptions, no guesses,
no winks from councilors, it won’t be touched.....Middle Ireland will make sure of thaaaaaat................

Won’t be stiffed on this one while Joxer tips around the edge of the envelope.

Nevin Parsnipp

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

If it’s not ‘everybody pays’ or ‘nobody pays’ no exceptions, no guesses,
no winks from councilors, it won’t be touched.....Middle Ireland will make sure of thaaaaaat................

Won’t be stiffed on this one while Joxer tips around the edge of the envelope.

Local authority and Social housing Benji ? Don't think they ever were in the water charges net ?

The housing sector where 60% of affordable rents are reportedly in arrears ?

Probably will be written off now that Joxer can jump on the Covid bandwaggon ?

Living Off The Splash

If you use a liquid soap. Wash you hands with the soap before turning tap on. Use your soapy hand to turn tap on, puts a layer of soap on tap.
Then wash your hands with water after thoroughly soaping them, rather than putting soap on your hand and immediately running it under the tap.

Nevin Parsnipp

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

If you use a liquid soap. Wash you hands with the soap before turning tap on. Use your soapy hand to turn tap on, puts a layer of soap on tap.
Then wash your hands with water after thoroughly soaping them, rather than putting soap on your hand and immediately running it under the tap.

Gonna try that for sure...for sure...sensible advice...innit ?

Benedict

IW can't install a meter for everyone - because even if they still did installations, members of the public would block the installation like they did before.

They can't charge those with meters and not those without meters. People with meters wouldn't tolerate that.

So the only option left is to continue paying for water from central funds.

It's the only option!

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

IW can't install a meter for everyone - because even if they still did installations, members of the public would block the installation like they did before.

They can't charge those with meters and not those without meters. People with meters wouldn't tolerate that.

So the only option left is to continue paying for water from central funds.

It's the only option!

Great news. Is that for definite or just wishful thinking?

Bass Reeves

Benedict wrote: »

So the only option left is to continue paying for water from central funds.

It's the only option!

Flat charge is an option and a separate flat charge for sewage. Give people 4-5 years of that and start onstalling watermeters the then

Topgear on Dave

Benedict wrote: »

So the only option left is to continue paying for water from central funds.

It's the only option!

It's lucky central funds are so flush with cash right now.

charlie14

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Flat charge is an option and a separate flat charge for sewage. Give people 4-5 years of that and start onstalling watermeters the then

You are supposed to learn from historical mistakes. Not doom yourself by repeating them.

charlie14

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

It's lucky central funds are so flush with cash right now.

They were really flush as well when countless millions were squandered on water meters and cronies.:D

blanch152

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Incorrect Charles, just like yourself, you have tried to hammer the people who you think are the people to be challenged here.

Practically every one of your posts drift down to two individuals who you think are the archetypal villains of this issue, and a particular political party.

You disregard the value of water meters in the blind ambition to try to take down FG, Dinny, Lowry, Siteserv, and anyone who for some reason has a bile ridden desire to ride roughshod over what is best for our state.

I think that you have hit on the difference between the different sides on here.

Those opposing water charges use dummy targets like Dinny and Lowry to hide the fact that they are arguing for something that is wrong or because they are the real target of their bile and water charges and meters are only a tool and are being used.

Those who favour water charges do so because it is simply the right thing to do.

Living Off The Splash

I tried to log in to my account with Irish Water to see my usage. I couldn't remember my password so sent off to "Forget Password" for a new one. It won't recognise my email?

Also logged in using my account number and meter number and had a problem there.

I sent them a message through their online messaging system. I have no idea if it went through because it kept bouncing back to the send message again box.