Water charges for excessive usage

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Lads, I hate to tell ye, but Irish Water isn’t going anywhere. It’s here to stay. Get used to it.

I wouldn`t give up the day job for fortune telling if I was you.
According to you household water metering charges were here to stay as well.


Face it Maryanne, with those charges gone the whole reason for Irish Water`s existence is gone. To paraphrase Michael Noonan FG TD it is dead on the pitch stinking the place out of it.

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

I wouldn`t give up the day job for fortune telling if I was you.
According to you household water metering charges were here to stay as well.


Face it Maryanne, with those charges gone the whole reason for Irish Water`s existence is gone. To paraphrase Michael Noonan FG TD it is dead on the pitch stinking the place out of it.

Irish Water are beavering away upgrading the broken infrastructure. I suppose you would prefer they stop and let it deteriorate even more?

charlie14

Benedict wrote: »

What you say is true - but surely there is someone sitting at the decision-making table in IW HQ who is thinking "The Irish people will never ever buy into this fiasco, so why are we still trying to sell it?" So why doesn't he/she say "Excuse me folks, this plan cannot work, so can we please shred it and think of some other way of squeezing some cash out of our customers? Please?"

There is no other way for them to squeeze cash out of the public. Even if there was Irish Water are so toxic in the eyes of the public it would fail.


There is no great thinking process in Irish Water, nor indeed in their expensive so called international experts. Never was.

Their only thought process is based on desperate measures for desperate times on how to keep their well paid taxpayer funded positions.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Irish Water are beavering away upgrading the broken infrastructure. I suppose you would prefer they stop and let it deteriorate even more?

Irish Water have spent over a Billion euro that did nothing to improve the infrastructure.

You have only to look at the Leixlip plant in recent days to see just how inept they are when it comes to getting even the basics right.
600,000 on boil notices because they pumped untreated water through the mains, followed by the same again because the couldn`t even change filters screens.
They are an expensive and completely useless pointless extra layer of bureaucracy

James Brown

charlie14 wrote: »

Irish Water have spent over a Billion euro that did nothing to improve the infrastructure.

You have only to look at the Leixlip plant in recent days to see just how inept they are when it comes to getting even the basics right.
600,000 on boil notices because they pumped untreated water through the mains, followed by the same again because the couldn`t even change filters screens.
They are an expensive and completely useless pointless extra layer of bureaucracy

Yep.
Instead of the Dept. of the Environment overseeing the LA's, overseeing contractors, we've The Dept. of the Environment, over seeing Irish Water, overseeing the LAs overseeing the contractors.
It was all about metering and billing, simple as.

blanch152

Benedict wrote: »

The elephant in the room is still the unfairness issue. IW may now be realising that they simply CANNOT target one half of their customers while effectively giving a waiver to the other. Surely the penny must have dropped by now that this plan is fatally flawed and cannot work. Do they still think the public hasn't noticed the unfairness?

So if they finally realise (and surely they must realise) that the plan is dead in the water, why aren't they shredding it and putting forward a new plan? Why are they still clinging to a sinking ship?

The real elephant in the room is the Water Frameworks Directive.

The government only prevented the EU taking action against Ireland by arguing tenuously that the excessive usage charge was an acceptable alternative to normal water charges. In that sense, the excessive water charge can't be dropped.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

The real elephant in the room is the Water Frameworks Directive.

The government only prevented the EU taking action against Ireland by arguing tenuously that the excessive usage charge was an acceptable alternative to normal water charges. In that sense, the excessive water charge can't be dropped.

Will you ever get up the yard.
That Lab/FG argued nothing tenuously with the EU on water charges.


Even when they knew there was no requirement under the Water Framework Directive, they, like yourself and others here, kept lying telling us ad nauseam that if we did not pay water charge for usage over 30,000 liters per household we were going to be fined millions daily by the EU.

James Brown

charlie14 wrote: »

Will you ever get up the yard.
That Lab/FG argued nothing tenuously with the EU on water charges.


Even when they knew there was no requirement under the Water Framework Directive, they, like yourself and others here, kept lying telling us ad nauseam that if we did not pay water charge for usage over 30,000 liters per household we were going to be fined millions daily by the EU.

Meanwhile...

Ireland fined €5m plus daily penalty of €15,000 over landslides at Galway wind farm
https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-fined-eu-court-of-justice-wind-farm-4887792-Nov2019/

Ireland would face multibillion EU fines over emissions target failure
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ireland-would-face-multibillion-eu-fines-over-emissions-target-failure-1.3924909

The same champions of linning uncle Dinny's, (Denis O'Brien) pockets at the tax payers expense under the guise of the environment don't make a peep about any of the above. Complete lack of credibility.

Benedict

IW said they would meter every home. They have not done so and apparently have no intention of doing so. (Installations don't happen any more.)

They said they would send out notifications in the third quarter of '19 to users (they meant users with meters of course) if there was evidence of overuse.

Has anyone got a notification? Does anyone out there know of a single user who has been notified?

The answer presumably is "No".

So is every single metered home sticking by the quota? Not even one, absent minded home owner has ignored that dripping tap? Not even one?

Us metered folk deserve a round of applause do we not?

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

IW said they would meter every home. They have not done so and apparently have no intention of doing so. (Installations don't happen any more.)

They said they would send out notifications in the third quarter of '19 to users (they meant users with meters of course) if there was evidence of overuse.

Has anyone got a notification? Does anyone out there know of a single user who has been notified?

The answer presumably is "No".

So is every single metered home sticking by the quota? Not even one, absent minded home owner has ignored that dripping tap? Not even one?

Us metered folk deserve a round of applause do we not?

If you were as well up on all things Irish Water, or if you actually read posts, you would know that notifications were put back a year while details are finalised for identifying non metered over users.

Benedict

Unfortunately there will always be users who will continue to live in cloud cuckoo land - perhaps it remains prudent to simply ignore comments which are not worth addressing.

Brendan Bendar

Benedict wrote: »

Unfortunately there will always be users who will continue to live in cloud cuckoo land - perhaps it remains prudent to simply ignore comments which are not worth addressing.

:rolleyes:

Yeh..

branie2

Benedict wrote: »

Unfortunately there will always be users who will continue to live in cloud cuckoo land - perhaps it remains prudent to simply ignore comments which are not worth addressing.

Comments from people who refuse to pay, or people who believe in paying?

McMurphy

branie2 wrote: »

Comments from people who refuse to pay, or people who believe in paying?

Comments from people who can't even accept the findings of FGs own independent highly esteemed expert commission.

Expert Commission: Taxation should cover normal use of water

No point calling in the doctor if you are going to ignore his diagnosis after all.

Benedict

Quote from Citizens' Information site re IW (https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_services/water)

"Irish Water will begin writing to some customers in the autumn of 2019. This will give notice that you may be using an excessive amount of water and provide information on how to conserve water and deal with leaks."

No marks for guessing how many notices were sent out.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

you would know that notifications were put back a year while details are finalised for identifying non metered over users.

How is this "identifying non metered over uses" going to be achieved ?
By using psychic mediums, sending another blank cheque to those "international experts" who were as useless as an ash tray on a motor bike?



Face facts Maryanne, anyone with half a brain knows it`s bulls**t.
Irish Water, and not for the first time, are clueless. Simply making noises hoping that alone is enough to keep their nice cushy well paid jobs at the tax payers expense.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Comments from people who can't even accept the findings of FGs own independent highly esteemed expert commission.

Expert Commission: Taxation should cover normal use of water

No point calling in the doctor if you are going to ignore his diagnosis after all.

Highly esteemed? Yes, if you are considering industrial relations issues, not sure about the expertise in other areas.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Highly esteemed? Yes, if you are considering industrial relations issues, not sure about the expertise in other areas.

As opposed to what ?
The 73M. of taxpayers money handed to the international expertise to set up the clusterf**k. :P

Benedict

charlie14 wrote: »

How is this "identifying non metered over uses" going to be achieved ?
By using psychic mediums, sending another blank cheque to those "international experts" who were as useless as an ash tray on a motor bike?



Face facts Maryanne, anyone with half a brain knows it`s bulls**t.
Irish Water, and not for the first time, are clueless. Simply making noises hoping that alone is enough to keep their nice cushy well paid jobs at the tax payers expense.

She has been asked over and over again to explain how IW can assess usage of non-metered homes and she has never answered - because she DOESN'T KNOW how.


Nobody knows how (not even IW). Because they can't assess it.


So if you don't have a meter you can forget about excess usage charges and that has been shown over and over again in this thread.

Plumbthedepths

Benedict wrote: »

She has been asked over and over again to explain how IW can assess usage of non-metered homes and she has never answered - because she DOESN'T KNOW how.


Nobody knows how (not even IW). Because they can't assess it.


So if you don't have a meter you can forget about excess usage charges and that has been shown over and over again in this thread.

I believe she mentioned a competent plumber, but I'm guessing only one with physic abilities would be of any use.

Benedict

Benedict wrote: »

She has been asked over and over again to explain how IW can assess usage of non-metered homes and she has never answered - because she DOESN'T KNOW how.


Nobody knows how (not even IW). Because they can't assess it.


So if you don't have a meter you can forget about excess usage charges and that has been shown over and over again in this thread.

She HAS answered, but you didn’t like or ignored the answer. Same as you are ignoring the fact that notification of excess use has been deferred until October 2020.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She HAS answered, but you didn’t like or ignored the answer. Same as you are ignoring the fact that notification of excess use has been deferred until October 2020.

A competent plumber ( I believe was your answer) will detect and fix a leak, he certainly won't be able to tell you how much water you have used without a meter.

Benedict

Deleted User wrote: »

She HAS answered, but you didn’t like or ignored the answer. Same as you are ignoring the fact that notification of excess use has been deferred until October 2020.

We all seem to have missed her explanation of how to assess usage without a meter.
I wish she'd tell us again how it's done.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

She HAS answered, but you didn’t like or ignored the answer. Same as you are ignoring the fact that notification of excess use has been deferred until October 2020.

I don`t recall any answer from you on how to determine the quantity of water used by an unmetered property. If it was something that made even the slightest sense perhaps you would provide the post number and we can all have a look at it.


Notification of excess use can be deferred until 3020 for all the difference it will make.

That is unless you can show otherwise.??

Spanish Eyes

Forget it, the ship has sailed now.

First it was the Anti Water Charges crowd. They succeeded in a lot of ways. But those of us with meters and who had no truck with the Paul Murphy shower paid up of course as do most law abiding citizens. We are the forgotten people. And I do realise we got a refund somewhere along the line that fell into the black hole of day to day expenditure anyway, but was welcome just the same.

But no more. I have not seen ONE decent argument here that would convince me that IW would in any way be in a position to identify excessive usage for those without a meter. The guff is just that, spin and BS.

Why are new developments not mandated to have water meters as part of the planning process? Anyone know? Apartments cannot be metered for some reason, yet abroad it is a no brainer.

Forget it, it is a non starter. In fact the compliant lot like myself will consider plugging my meter with cement or something if they try to BS people like me. I don't know what the concrete in the meter hole will do, but it will give me great satisfaction to do it.

AUX Barricades!

James Brown

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Forget it, the ship has sailed now.

First it was the Anti Water Charges crowd. They succeeded in a lot of ways. But those of us with meters and who had no truck with the Paul Murphy shower paid up of course as do most law abiding citizens. We are the forgotten people. And I do realise we got a refund somewhere along the line that fell into the black hole of day to day expenditure anyway, but was welcome just the same.

But no more. I have not seen ONE decent argument here that would convince me that IW would in any way be in a position to identify excessive usage for those without a meter. The guff is just that, spin and BS.

Why are new developments not mandated to have water meters as part of the planning process? Anyone know? Apartments cannot be metered for some reason, yet abroad it is a no brainer.

Forget it, it is a non starter. In fact the compliant lot like myself will consider plugging my meter with cement or something if they try to BS people like me. I don't know what the concrete in the meter hole will do, but it will give me great satisfaction to do it.

AUX Barricades!

You got conned. There was no 'Paul Murphy shower'. The people, general public had issue and so did Paul Murphy. FG/Lab made it seem like there was a 'Paul Murphy shower' because they couldn't be seen to criticise the general public.
We are lucky enough of us called out the con for what it was and like e-voting machines people still need save face and will still talk about how great an idea it was despite the facts to the contrary.

Benedict

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Forget it, the ship has sailed now.

First it was the Anti Water Charges crowd. They succeeded in a lot of ways. But those of us with meters and who had no truck with the Paul Murphy shower paid up of course as do most law abiding citizens. We are the forgotten people. And I do realise we got a refund somewhere along the line that fell into the black hole of day to day expenditure anyway, but was welcome just the same.

But no more. I have not seen ONE decent argument here that would convince me that IW would in any way be in a position to identify excessive usage for those without a meter. The guff is just that, spin and BS.

Why are new developments not mandated to have water meters as part of the planning process? Anyone know? Apartments cannot be metered for some reason, yet abroad it is a no brainer.

Forget it, it is a non starter. In fact the compliant lot like myself will consider plugging my meter with cement or something if they try to BS people like me. I don't know what the concrete in the meter hole will do, but it will give me great satisfaction to do it.

AUX Barricades!

Like you, I would normally pay up but this is an exception. Law abiding citizens are not fools and will stand their ground if they are told to "shut up and pay" and the fact that their neighbours don't have to is none of their damn business.


The reason you haven't heard any good explanation of how non-metered homes will be assess for how much they use is that there isn't any good explanation because it can't happen.

Just because a person is a law-abiding citizen doesn't mean they can be bullied.

Brendan Bendar

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You got conned. There was no 'Paul Murphy shower'. The people, general public had issue and so did Paul Murphy. FG/Lab made it seem like there was a 'Paul Murphy shower' because they couldn't be seen to criticise the general public.
We are lucky enough of us called out the con for what it was and like e-voting machines people still need save face and will still talk about how great an idea it was despite the facts to the contrary.

Hmmm strange that nobody other than Murphy and his fellow travelers ended up in court.

I doubt if there too many ‘general public’ punters roaring and shouting around Mobstown on that day.

Had better things, like working and paying their way I guess.

Plumbthedepths

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Hmmm strange that nobody other than Murphy and his fellow travelers ended up in court.

I doubt if there too many ‘general public’ punters roaring and shouting around Mobstown on that day.

Had better things, like working and paying their way I guess.

Over 600k households refused to engage with IW , was at work that day myself I felt non engagement was the best form of protest as did many others.
That poor horse must be dust now it's been flogged so much.

James Brown

Look lads I'll sort this:

If we ever have charges it will be in the form of an uneven charge some pay while others don't or worse others get charged guesstimates.
People on welfare will be exempt as they were under the original con.
Either way 0% of this will go towards mains replacement.