Water charges for excessive usage

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

You posted that they didn't pay any tax for nine years, that is still a lie.

Getting personal and calling me a liar and going after my political persuasion is just avoiding admitting your mistake.

For a supposedly avowed Green Party supporter you really do become very touchy whenever Fine Gael dodgy dealings or those of their friends are mentioned.


Regardless of your dodging and weaving the facts are that for 9 years Fine Gael were guilty of tax evasion by illegally making under the counter undeclared payments to staff.

pablo128

blanch152 wrote: »

This is your quote:

"FG have been current in paying tax as far as I know after their 9 year holiday from paying any."

The bit in bold is a lie, they have always paid tax. As your own link states: "The cash payments were made in respect of staff overtime, Christmas bonuses and payments to temporary workers."

They were paying tax on all other payments to workers - regular salary etc.

You said that they took a holiday from paying any tax for 9 years - that is a lie.





Oh that's who Dinny is, was mixing him up with some lad from Glenroe. Well, I won't be remembering it, so maybe next time, be a little bit courteous to people and refer to them by their name.


Edit: It is one thing to state that a post contains lies, as I did, it is another to call someone a liar, as you did.

You referred to Dinny yourself on another thread a week ago, and now you're acting all innocent. Get up the yard.

blanch152

charlie14 wrote: »

For a supposedly avowed Green Party supporter you really do become very touchy whenever Fine Gael dodgy dealings or those of their friends are mentioned.


Regardless of your dodging and weaving the facts are that for 9 years Fine Gael were guilty of tax evasion by illegally making under the counter undeclared payments to staff.

Yes, Fine Gael settled with Revenue in respect of undeclared payments to staff.

"Guilty of tax evasion" implies a court conviction, which I missed, but I am sure you have been following them closely enough to provide a link.

However, the claim was that they hadn't paid any tax for nine years, that was clearly false.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, Fine Gael settled with Revenue in respect of undeclared payments to staff.

"Guilty of tax evasion" implies a court conviction, which I missed, but I am sure you have been following them closely enough to provide a link.

However, the claim was that they hadn't paid any tax for nine years, that was clearly false.

That's a lie, (by your standards).

They hadn't paid tax in 9 years and only revealed it after Revenue called them on it.

Mr Noonan said last night the practice was stopped by former Fine Gael General Secretary Mr Jim Miley shortly after he was appointed to that position in 1995. However, a former Fine Gael staff member said last night that he had received a significant cash payment in 1997 in respect of work done during the general election campaign of that year.

Mr Noonan claimed the party disclosed the payments voluntarily to the Revenue Commissioners in 1999. However, in a statement the party admitted that the Revenue Commissioners dispute this, and say they had begun to investigate Fine Gael before the party revealed the payments.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406

Both Noonan and Fine Gael are dodgy as f***, (I can very easily back that up).

Now, I hope the sweet deal with Noonan and Mr. Denis O'Brien A.K.A. Dinny is resolved at some point. Especially as we know metering, even with full compliance, would not pay for the admin and upkeep of IW let alone any infrastructural work.

McMurphy

Cmon blanch, pretending not to know who Dinny is, is a new level of desperation from yourself.

In fairness Matt is probably guilty of omitting the prefixed "Uncle", but still........

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's a lie, (by your standards).

They hadn't paid tax in 9 years and only revealed it after Revenue called them on it.

Matt, you claimed that they hadn't paid any tax for nine years, that clearly wasn't true. They had not paid tax on some overtime and Christmas bonus payments as the article made clear. At €110k for nine years, that implies an average tax payment of €12k per year, which with interest and penalties means that the amount of salary per year was probably around €15-20k, which was about €500 at Christmas to 40 staff if you want to break it down, could be to one staff, could be €200 to 100 staff, I don't know. (Maybe Johnny has a picture of them all in a room furiously typing away).

Now, I am not going to downplay what they did wrong, neither am I saying the amount doesn't matter, but by no stretch of the imagination does not paying tax on an average payment of €500 a year to 40 staff amount to not paying any tax at all for nine years, which was your original point.

You keep dragging threads down pointless rabbit holes by posting inflammatory untrue statements, that you then double down on.

charlie14

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, Fine Gael settled with Revenue in respect of undeclared payments to staff.

"Guilty of tax evasion" implies a court conviction, which I missed, but I am sure you have been following them closely enough to provide a link.

However, the claim was that they hadn't paid any tax for nine years, that was clearly false.

Even though I am loath to do it I feel it is only fair to point out to you that you are making yourself look, as a supposedly Green Party supporter, rather foolish with your pedantic support for Fine Gael`s tax evasion.


When caught they at least admitted their guilt.


As too you looking for a link. Matt has already provided it.



For someone who appears to look on links as word from the Almighty, you are rather fast and loose with them yourself when attempting to use them to show something you know is untrue.
Your recent link to a statement from former junior minister Fergal O`Dowd a case in point

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

Even though I am loath to do it I feel it is only fair to point out to you that you are making yourself look, as a supposedly Green Party supporter, rather foolish with your pedantic support for Fine Gael`s tax evasion.


When caught they at least admitted their guilt.


As too you looking for a link. Matt has already provided it.



For someone who appears to look on links as word from the Almighty, you are rather fast and loose with them yourself when attempting to use them to show something you know is untrue.
Your recent link to a statement from former junior minister Fergal O`Dowd a case in point

Kettle. Pot. Black.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Matt, you claimed that they hadn't paid any tax for nine years, that clearly wasn't true. They had not paid tax on some overtime and Christmas bonus payments as the article made clear. At €110k for nine years, that implies an average tax payment of €12k per year, which with interest and penalties means that the amount of salary per year was probably around €15-20k, which was about €500 at Christmas to 40 staff if you want to break it down, could be to one staff, could be €200 to 100 staff, I don't know. (Maybe Johnny has a picture of them all in a room furiously typing away).

Now, I am not going to downplay what they did wrong, neither am I saying the amount doesn't matter, but by no stretch of the imagination does not paying tax on an average payment of €500 a year to 40 staff amount to not paying any tax at all for nine years, which was your original point.

You keep dragging threads down pointless rabbit holes by posting inflammatory untrue statements, that you then double down on.

It was true. If I don't pay a tax but pay others can I claim I'm tax compliant or not? Will Revenue see I pay some taxes so let it slide?
What's your point? I already conceded they paid some taxes, just not that one and not for 9 years. Calling that a lie is a very dishonest misrepresentation of my comment.

You are a hypocrite. You literally do what you say you won't do in the same sentence

Blanch, you are believable, in that it's so common it's no longer unbelievable. You're the king of rabbit holes, in fact almost every time I post you start digging a rabbit hole. You rarely give an opinion and seem to spend your entire time backing up and defending Fine Gael, (I can very easily back that up). Get up the yard you complete chancer.
For example, no mention of water metering or water in you last few posts all trying to score points off me for something I wasn't even responding to you about

James Brown

Deleted User wrote: »

Kettle. Pot. Black.

Back after being proven wrong for the umpteenth time? I thought you'd have the courtesy to have a comment on topic at least, maybe in a few months asking the same questions and for links to things we've already covered.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

Kettle. Pot. Black.

Rich coming from you Maryanne.

christy c

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'll happily concede they paid some taxes somewhere while dodging others for 9 years

If you'll concede that why did you let your imagination run away with you by saying that didn't pay any tax? i.e. zero, nothing. Would it be not better to apologise for posting this nonsense so people can move on and get back to discussing water charges?

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

If you'll concede that why did you let your imagination run away with you by saying that didn't pay any tax? i.e. zero, nothing. Would it be not better to apologise for posting this nonsense so people can move on and get back to discussing water charges?

Am I right in thinking this is your first post in this thread and it's on FG taxation and my being off topic?
I was responding to a comment a poster made regarding people not wanting to pay tax. I referenced the fact that FG had dodged tax for 9 years. Blanch ran with it. Now here you are still dragging it out, with the cheek to accuses me of not wanting to talk on topic? Some chancer
You must be laying in wait. The Matt Barrett appreciation society has no thread alas. Criminal, I know.

charlie14

christy c wrote: »

If you'll concede that why did you let your imagination run away with you by saying that didn't pay any tax? i.e. zero, nothing. Would it be not better to apologise for posting this nonsense so people can move on and get back to discussing water charges?

On moving on and getting back to discussing water charges, would it not perhaps be better for you to give your views on water charges rather than potentially stroking the flames by looking for someone to apologies.


Just saying like.

Beasty

Right - cut out the personal attacks and back on topic, as threadbans and other sanctions will be dished out otherwise

Any questions, drop me a PM

christy c

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Am I right in thinking this is your first post in this thread and it's on FG taxation and my being off topic?
I was responding to a comment a poster made regarding people not wanting to pay tax. I referenced the fact that FG had dodged tax for 9 years. Blanch ran with it. Now here you are still dragging it out, with the cheek to accuses me of not wanting to talk on topic? Some chancer
You must be laying in wait. The Matt Barrett appreciation society has no thread alas. Criminal, I know.

Yes first post, not very interested in the topic but do occasionally glance through the thread. Just that your false statement stood out when I did read it.

christy c

charlie14 wrote: »

would it not perhaps be better for you to give your views on water charges

It most certainly would, but I'm not perfect. Water charges have been done to death at this stage, while I do think they're necessary- they're politically toxic for the foreseeable future.

James Brown

christy c wrote: »

Yes first post, not very interested in the topic but do occasionally glance through the thread. Just that your false statement stood out when I did read it.

I was quoting Fine Gael Christy in response to a cooment, on topic, by another poster.
The issue at hand re caps and charges on over use is pointless, considering we don't have a record for over use or waste and would certainly come under any proposed cap.

charlie14

christy c wrote: »

It most certainly would, but I'm not perfect. Water charges have been done to death at this stage, while I do think they're necessary- they're politically toxic for the foreseeable future.

Regardless of them being necessary or not, after the absolute ham-fisted mess FG/Lab. made of the whole fiasco they have nobody but themselves to blame for making it politically toxic for at least a few generations.

christy c

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I was quoting Fine Gael Christy in response to a cooment, on topic, by another poster.
The issue at hand re caps and charges on over use is pointless, considering we don't have a record for over use or waste and would certainly come under any proposed cap.

Fine. My main issue was with your statement being false, not about it being off topic.

christy c

charlie14 wrote: »

Regardless of them being necessary or not, after the absolute ham-fisted mess FG/Lab. made of the whole fiasco they have nobody but themselves to blame for making it politically toxic for at least a few generations.

Agreed.

NovemberWren

K.Flyer wrote: »

A lot of people forget that the government tried to bring in water charges before in the mid 90s, long before social media, and failed miserably.
Tried again under the guise of I.W. and failed in a colossal way this time. I think they may need to wait another generation before attempting it again.

On another note, is it possible to obtain a copy of the reports / suggestions / recommendations by these International Consultants that cost a gazzillion euro.
I would like to read their reports and see what they had to say and compare that with what I.W. actually went ahead and did, especially regarding apartments.

yes. this non-resolution of the i.w. situation seems just a cute ploy to me.
It most probably is a government tactic, a strategy; i.e. keep everyone on tetherhooks about the water situation ... and ever so slowly, slowly, .... slowly....wear down the populace - to the point that they cannot bear any more of this constant argument. (which really is about national identity and cohesion?)
Ir.Water have (to comply with e.u.paymasters?); and have dutifully put in german and American radio broadcast transmitters to most homes.
And now ESB are doing the same.

Brendan Bendar

NovemberWren wrote: »

yes. this non-resolution of the i.w. situation seems just a cute ploy to me.
It most probably is a government tactic, a strategy; i.e. keep everyone on tetherhooks about the water situation ... and ever so slowly, slowly, .... slowly....wear down the populace - to the point that they cannot bear any more of this constant argument. (which really is about national identity and cohesion?)
Ir.Water have (to comply with e.u.paymasters?); and have dutifully put in german and American radio broadcast transmitters to most homes.
And now ESB are doing the same.

Bit over the top, pal?

NovemberWren

NovemberWren wrote: »

yes. this non-resolution of the i.w. situation seems just a cute ploy to me.
It most probably is a government tactic, a strategy; i.e. keep everyone on tetherhooks about the water situation ... and ever so slowly, slowly, .... slowly....wear down the populace - to the point that they cannot bear any more of this constant argument. (which really is about national identity and cohesion?)
Ir.Water have (to comply with e.u.paymasters?); and have dutifully put in german and American radio broadcast transmitters to most homes.
And now ESB are doing the same.

Care to translate? Can’t make head nor tail of this post!

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Care to translate? Can’t make head nor tail of this post!

I think it is a direct quotation from Paul Murphy, probably why it’s incomprehensible

charlie14

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Bit over the top, pal?

The last two sentences may be a bit off topic,but I can see the reasoning on the rest of that post.


Irish Water with charges gone are scrambling around looking for anything they can find to justify their existence hoping it will get them back to their halcyon days of wasting vast amounts of taxpayers money.


Typical of them they have come up with yet another half assed plan in an attempt to achieve this. Spend another fortune metering the remaining households attempting to sell it as fairness on exceeding allocations where the returns would not come within a country mile of ever repaying the cost while they have no means of metering hundreds of thousands apartment.


You do not need to be an "international expert" to see the great ship of water metering has long disappeared over the horizon.

Benedict

The elephant in the room is still the unfairness issue. IW may now be realising that they simply CANNOT target one half of their customers while effectively giving a waiver to the other. Surely the penny must have dropped by now that this plan is fatally flawed and cannot work. Do they still think the public hasn't noticed the unfairness?

So if they finally realise (and surely they must realise) that the plan is dead in the water, why aren't they shredding it and putting forward a new plan? Why are they still clinging to a sinking ship?

charlie14

Benedict wrote: »

The elephant in the room is still the unfairness issue. IW may now be realising that they simply CANNOT target one half of their customers while effectively giving a waiver to the other. Surely the penny must have dropped by now that this plan is fatally flawed and cannot work. Do they still think the public hasn't noticed the unfairness?

So if they finally realise (and surely they must realise) that the plan is dead in the water, why aren't they shredding it and putting forward a new plan? Why are they still clinging to a sinking ship?

There only ever was one plan. Meter all the domestic households, and that is still the only plan. Regardless of everything else associated with the hair brained plan ,there was no fairness in that either as there was no way or any intention of metering apartments.


Irish Water primary function was to collect money from water metering. Without water meters it is just another needless layer of bureaucracy that is attempting to use anything they can dream off to stay in business.


They have been at this carry on since domestic metering was halted and this exceeding allocations is only the latest. We had spending another fortune (international exerts included) on piping water from the Shannon so it could drain from mains leaks in Dublin, dry weather and not enough water, to the latest where they issued boil notice to 600,000 because there was too much water.
The one and only plan has failed expensively both financially and politically. Everything else is a side show going nowhere.

Benedict

charlie14 wrote: »

There only ever was one plan. Meter all the domestic households, and that is still the only plan. Regardless of everything else associated with the hair brained plan ,there was no fairness in that either as there was no way or any intention of metering apartments.


Irish Water primary function was to collect money from water metering. Without water meters it is just another needless layer of bureaucracy that is attempting to use anything they can dream off to stay in business.


They have been at this carry on since domestic metering was halted and this exceeding allocations is only the latest. We had spending another fortune (international exerts included) on piping water from the Shannon so it could drain from mains leaks in Dublin, dry weather and not enough water, to the latest where they issued boil notice to 600,000 because there was too much water.
The one and only plan has failed expensively both financially and politically. Everything else is a side show going nowhere.

What you say is true - but surely there is someone sitting at the decision-making table in IW HQ who is thinking "The Irish people will never ever buy into this fiasco, so why are we still trying to sell it?" So why doesn't he/she say "Excuse me folks, this plan cannot work, so can we please shred it and think of some other way of squeezing some cash out of our customers? Please?"

Lads, I hate to tell ye, but Irish Water isn’t going anywhere. It’s here to stay. Get used to it.