Rebuttal of "Deer Poacher".

Grizzly 45

11117 wrote: »

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, no matter how unfair it sounds. There are too many licenses issued. 4 or 5 lads are sharing land permission on some places and will shoot the first thing they see because if they don’t the next lad will. This also gives rise to shooting one on the other side of the fence and lends itself to a free for all. We all know this is happening

So do we open the can of worms then of liscensing by payment or by testing??? If it is by payment ,there will only be rich people hunting here within a decade. By testing?We already do such,to an adquate level here for Irelands conditions.[TBH compared to the rest of the EU it's a farsce,but we'll leave that for another time]
How do we decide how many liscenses are too many or too few? By area/county returns?we all know how much a joke the annual return numbers are.
By selling tags? Too bad if you cant afford a 500 euro tag per deer in your area then.Because knowing us Irish thats what it will cost once beuracy and officaldom get hold of things.

You are 100% right on one aspect tho...The money aspect.That has to be removed from this entire equation,and you will then see a dead stop of poaching.

solarwinds

Cant take the credit for that quote above Grizzly

11117

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Good! Then dont becoming out saying people are becoming millionares from this


Any of those trophies over 5 kilo dry weight??? How many Gold heads do they produce per annum under the CIC measuring system?? THAT is the kind of stuff that top payers want to see...And over the years too.So please do stick up their web address so we can see this place and their heads???Seems we like to hide our lights under a bushel here then.:rolleyes:

Here is a German article on how much a disappointment they had.[Google translate will do a trans for you]

https://jagdwaffennetzwerk.blogspot.com/2016/07/misserfolg-auf-sika-in-irland.html
It reads like Fawlty Towers goes hunting. And its not the only one.A google of Irish hunting experiances will say the same. We want to be taken seriously,we need to get our act together.

Where did I state that anyone has become a millionaire🙄. They are making a good living from it all the same. There’s no denying that at all. I don’t know nor care what weight they are to be honest. It’s not my thing. All I do know is these guys are making a damn good living out of it.

I don’t know anything much about the German model of doing things, if it works over there then fair play. Maybe it’s something we should look at and try to implement here. How can we ever look to to be taken seriously elsewhere when we don’t take ourselves seriously? Also, why should we care what anyone else thinks of us? We have enough to do ourselves without worrying what others think

11117

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You dont have to agree with me or not..But you havent noticed the contradiction in your arguement???



In one particular part of the country... The Irish deer management foroum say themselves,although how they can say it without a survey,that Wicklow is suffering from Hotspots of deer pouplations,while in other areas there is a reduction.

How do we know???Are there any NPWS/AGS/Irish deer organisations figures out there to justify that statement???It seems that we only hear about cases like these when it is a "sure thing"and media reported.

Which is a good thing,but no doubt the pros have switched to "thermo vision";) to go about this work.

Yeah,they have proably all come over to us here in Clare,Galway and the West.:p

There is no contradiction there at all. Only facts. You’re coming up with your own agenda here. Reading into something that’s not there.

Exactly. Any fool with a title can spout rubbish and have it published. Where is the deer count/census? Again it’s all speculation. If you choose to believe them then fair play. I know I’d rather believe what I see from being out on the ground.

Most of them wouldn’t have the brains to switch. Honestly I don’t believe that they have. Things have tightened up a lot, even with the game dealers.

Ha ha. Maybe so. But seeing as a lot of them seem to be from my county of Carlow, I doubt they can afford it anymore.

11117

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So do we open the can of worms then of liscensing by payment or by testing??? If it is by payment ,there will only be rich people hunting here within a decade. By testing?We already do such,to an adquate level here for Irelands conditions.[TBH compared to the rest of the EU it's a farsce,but we'll leave that for another time]
How do we decide how many liscenses are too many or too few? By area/county returns?we all know how much a joke the annual return numbers are.
By selling tags? Too bad if you cant afford a 500 euro tag per deer in your area then.Because knowing us Irish thats what it will cost once beuracy and officaldom get hold of things.

You are 100% right on one aspect tho...The money aspect.That has to be removed from this entire equation,and you will then see a dead stop of poaching.

No, definitely not. I don’t know how it’s best done. Maybe a moratorium on new licenses for 5 years? That would be unfair though. Limiting the number of permissions on licence applications perhaps? There are lots of farmers who will sign multiple forms for lads in areas where the population of deer is extremely high. This is an issue.

Money already controls deer stalking. Every year things are getting tighter. I never had a lease or needed one. But as many will agree, only for the trust built up over years with some good landowners, I too would be pushed aside by lads coming in offering plentiful sums to lease lands. I’m lucky that I have hunting on some of the very best private woods in Wicklow and I do my best every year to keep thy relationship going

11117

solarwinds wrote: »

Cant take the credit for that quote above Grizzly

This has obviously gone over my head. Has this been brought up before?

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Good! Then dont becoming out saying people are becoming millionares from this


Any of those trophies over 5 kilo dry weight??? How many Gold heads do they produce per annum under the CIC measuring system?? THAT is the kind of stuff that top payers want to see...And over the years too.So please do stick up their web address so we can see this place and their heads???Seems we like to hide our lights under a bushel here then.:rolleyes:

Here is a German article on how much a disappointment they had.[Google translate will do a trans for you]

https://jagdwaffennetzwerk.blogspot.com/2016/07/misserfolg-auf-sika-in-irland.html
It reads like Fawlty Towers goes hunting. And its not the only one.A google of Irish hunting experiances will say the same. We want to be taken seriously,we need to get our act together.

That was an expensive nightmare of lost opportunities, and lost hunting time that he could have been somewhere else. The business of being expected to use somebody else's crappy rifle without being able to see where it shot is unforgiveable.

All in all, a waste of time that the hunter will never recoup.

tac foley

11117 wrote: »

I don’t know anything much about the German model of doing things, if it works over there then fair play. Maybe it’s something we should look at and try to implement here.

Taking a look at the COMPULSORY courses required of any German shooter to obtain his Jagdschein would quickly acquaint you with the stone-cold sober fact that very few Irish shooters would put up with it. It is just not in the national psyche to do so.

I never hunted over in Germany when we lived there, but I DID shoot competitive handgun and rifle and black powder. If I'd fallen off the pile of documentation I had to deal with, let alone the notes for the compulsory courses I had to pass, I'd have done myself some serious damage.

11117

https://jagdwaffennetzwerk.blogspot.com/2016/07/misserfolg-auf-sika-in-irland.html


Is there an English translation of this anywhere?

tac foley

11117 wrote: »

https://jagdwaffennetzwerk.blogspot.com/2016/07/misserfolg-auf-sika-in-irland.html


Is there an English translation of this anywhere?

Grizzly and I are both fluent German speakers, but I guess that you could use Google translate. Note that there are few non-translatable turns of phrase that look real odd in English. Give us a toot if you get stuck.

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So do we open the can of worms then of liscensing by payment or by testing??? If it is by payment ,there will only be rich people hunting here within a decade. By testing?We already do such,to an adquate level here for Irelands conditions.[TBH compared to the rest of the EU it's a farsce,but we'll leave that for another time]
How do we decide how many liscenses are too many or too few? By area/county returns?we all know how much a joke the annual return numbers are.
By selling tags? Too bad if you cant afford a 500 euro tag per deer in your area then.Because knowing us Irish thats what it will cost once beuracy and officaldom get hold of things.

You are 100% right on one aspect tho...The money aspect.That has to be removed from this entire equation,and you will then see a dead stop of poaching.

I said it before and i'll say it again, the Irish come into money and they lose the run of themselves. A cousin of mine is involved in a game club in Wicklow. They release a good few birds and there is deer to be shot as well, good gang of lads and everyone chips in with the work and costs. A fella well known in the shooting community in Dublin, Wicklow joins and within a few months had gone behind the backs of the club and approached the landowners with an offer of twice what the club are paying, for him to have exclusive shooting rights on the land.

I have heard of similar things happening with deer shooting as well, people who know land owners for years and take a couple of deer a season, turning up to be told the rights have been sold to some very wealthy individuals.

oldgit1897

tac foley wrote: »

Grizzly and I are both fluent German speakers, but I guess that you could use Google translate. Note that there are few non-translatable turns of phrase that look real odd in English. Give us a toot if you get stuck.

I'd like to read that, or at least get the gist.

Edit; just read it through Google translate, yes it is a bit fawlty towers alright.

J.R.

third video up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL9HlVS1o7I

solarwinds

There is a movie in that lad, the amount of stuff he is goin ta tawk abou but he never gets there.
Sooo many cliff hangers.

Grizzly 45

He's doing himself no favours in his delivery...It's all over the shop! If he would just stick to one or two points per video,we might have a clearer idea of WTAF he is on about...

Grizzly 45

]

11117 wrote: »

Where did I state that anyone has become a millionaire��. They are making a good living from it all the same. There’s no denying that at all. I don’t know nor care what weight they are to be honest. It’s not my thing. All I do know is these guys are making a damn good living out of it.

But those who are paying to hunt here DO care about both weight/points of their trophies ,thats why they return,otherwise it is a waste of time and money and has just a novelty factor.ANY hunting lodge or outfitter is damn proud of their trophies and advertise the fact .In fact its a vital marketing and advertising tool that you show that your outfit btought and can bring X weight or points to the scales...You never see this here in Ireland for some reason???

I don’t know anything much about the German model of doing things, if it works over there then fair play. Maybe it’s something we should look at and try to implement here.

How about..NOPE! You do not want to go anywhere near a German hunting course,or even moot doing such or introducing such.I did it,and it is an utter nightmare of either a cram course of 30 days theoritical,and practical instruction,or a leisurely 3 year apprenticeship on a shooting let,that covers everything from Anthropolgy,botany,zoolology,forestry,vetinary medicine of dogs and game and forensics, music notes,firearms safe handling,ballistics,firearms types,laws on hunting and poaching and seasons in all Federal German states.Doesnt matter if you are a chamois hunter in the Bavarian Alps,you will learn about goose seasons in Schlweizig Holstein:eek:Then practical stuff like woodworking, for building high seats or outdoor things necessary for a hunting let,then you are still nowhere near actually getting to handle a firearm.And when you do you had better handle it 100% properly in front of a panel of five professional state hunters.Your test in shooting.with a Rifle.. ALL FREEHAND with a sling allowed 50 meters 8out of 10 hits on a running boar target. Same at 100 meters standing and sitting on a stationary.Ditto the same for clays in a sporting layout from a non shoulderd ready position...30 days craming @between 3and 5 grand in a hunting school excluding your B&B. No wonder the Germans call it "das Grune Abituer"[Abituer would be the same as our Leaving Cert doing everything in Honours]

How can we ever look to to be taken seriously elsewhere when we don’t take ourselves seriously? Also, why should we care what anyone else thinks of us? We have enough to do ourselves without worrying what others think[/

Total contradiction in terms there...:p

oldgit1897

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

]



How about..NOPE! You do not want to go anywhere near a German hunting course,or even moot doing such or introducing such.I did it,and it is an utter nightmare of either a cram course of 30 days theoritical,and practical instruction,or a leisurely 3 year apprenticeship on a shooting let,that covers everything from Anthropolgy,botany,zoolology,forestry,vetinary medicine of dogs and game and forensics, music notes,firearms safe handling,ballistics,firearms types,laws on hunting and poaching and seasons in all Federal German states.Doesnt matter if you are a chamois hunter in the Bavarian Alps,you will learn about goose seasons in Schlweizig Holstein:eek:Then practical stuff like woodworking, for building high seats or outdoor things necessary for a hunting let,then you are still nowhere near actually getting to handle a firearm.And when you do you had better handle it 100% properly in front of a panel of five professional state hunters.Your test in shooting.with a Rifle.. ALL FREEHAND with a sling allowed 50 meters 8out of 10 hits on a running boar target. Same at 100 meters standing and sitting on a stationary.Ditto the same for clays in a sporting layout from a non shoulderd ready position...30 days craming @between 3and 5 grand in a hunting school excluding your B&B. No wonder the Germans call it "das Grune Abituer"[Abituer would be the same as our Leaving Cert doing everything in Honours]

Whats the point behind it all Grizz ? Is it to keep it exclusive or what ?

oldgit1897

J.R. wrote: »

third video up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL9HlVS1o7I

Obviously he never heard the best advise ever if you are accused of something or are in trouble, "Keep your fool mouth shut and get legal advise".

solarwinds

That kind of a course model would only be completed by people who were actually interested in the sport and weed out the fly by nights.

shootemall

His 4th video is here now , and I have to say he starts out well but he looses it a bit towards
The end

https://youtu.be/5vo0RndMsas

Grizzly 45

oldgit1897 wrote: »

Whats the point behind it all Grizz ? Is it to keep it exclusive or what ?

Combination of things...Being a hunter over there is a lifestyle choice rather than a hobby for a start,as you would want to be planning on being at least a full day and a half per week out looking after your let,or better still a consortium of you ,as owning a let is a very expensive proposition.Be prepared to fork out at least 20k a head in expenses alone PA.The concept of "Frae Nature" doesnt really exist either.Because you are paying,the animals on your let are your responsibility and property as well,to a point.So you are also responsible for crop damage if a herd of wild boar root up your farmers land you are shooting on,or a herd of deer demolish a crop of standing corn. Animals killed on the road,is considerd a culled animal in your culling plan as well. So getting to actually shoot something can be an expensive endevour alright.OTOH you do have legal powers of armed arrest,even up to very recently German hunters still had the right to shoot poachers on sight![A hangover from the Imperial German laws],and the police are more helpful,as you are their unpaid eyes and ears off the beaten track.

Is it eliteist??No not really.Lots of people including a surprising amount of women are taking it up.But they mightnt take on a German consortium in their locality.That part is and can be eliteist,depending on what sort of consortium you are joining.Same as gun clubs here,you might find your local bunch are just ass holes or very decent.

Alot of German hunters go to different parts of Europe to go hunting,as its pretty much accessible from Germany by car. We used to drive 12 hours to close onto the Rumanian border in Hungary for a weekends pheasent shooting,as it was 75% cheaper than raising and shooting them in our own let.

It boils down to multiple factors.Traditions,going back to the time Germany was pre unified under Bismark and the Imperial court,then the 3rd Reich and the post war occupations by the Allies and the famine winters of 45to48.A certain amount of gun control,farming methods and land usage methodology that is alien to us here.Urban sprawl and that "the countryside is there for everyone".attitude.

IOW it is about as useful to try and impliment such ideas as opening a parachute jump school in the Everglades during Gator mating season.

BattleCorp

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

after your let,or better still a consortium of you ,as owning a let is a very expensive proposition.Be prepared to fork out at least 20k a head in expenses alone PA.

Not wishing to split hairs with you but if it's €20k per annum, then I'd consider it pretty elitist.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

Not wishing to split hairs with you but if it's €20k per annum, then I'd consider it pretty elitist.

Compared to golf& tennis clubs over there,its pretty cheap.Those can start at 35kPA in the bigger cities.:pac:

11117

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

]

But those who are paying to hunt here DO care about both weight/points of their trophies ,thats why they return,otherwise it is a waste of time and money and has just a novelty factor.ANY hunting lodge or outfitter is damn proud of their trophies and advertise the fact .In fact its a vital marketing and advertising tool that you show that your outfit btought and can bring X weight or points to the scales...You never see this here in Ireland for some reason???

Maybe weight has more of an influence now than before. It used to be measured on head quality. I suppose both are intertwined



How about..NOPE! You do not want to go anywhere near a German hunting course,or even moot doing such or introducing such.I did it,and it is an utter nightmare of either a cram course of 30 days theoritical,and practical instruction,or a leisurely 3 year apprenticeship on a shooting let,that covers everything from Anthropolgy,botany,zoolology,forestry,vetinary medicine of dogs and game and forensics, music notes,firearms safe handling,ballistics,firearms types,laws on hunting and poaching and seasons in all Federal German states.Doesnt matter if you are a chamois hunter in the Bavarian Alps,you will learn about goose seasons in Schlweizig Holstein:eek:Then practical stuff like woodworking, for building high seats or outdoor things necessary for a hunting let,then you are still nowhere near actually getting to handle a firearm.And when you do you had better handle it 100% properly in front of a panel of five professional state hunters.Your test in shooting.with a Rifle.. ALL FREEHAND with a sling allowed 50 meters 8out of 10 hits on a running boar target. Same at 100 meters standing and sitting on a stationary.Ditto the same for clays in a sporting layout from a non shoulderd ready position...30 days craming @between 3and 5 grand in a hunting school excluding your B&B. No wonder the Germans call it "das Grune Abituer"[Abituer would be the same as our Leaving Cert doing everything in

Sound like a seriously rigorous course. Probably best leave that idea alone


Total contradiction in terms there...:p

Ah come, you know well what I mean

11117

I see all his videos have the content blocked due to a government complaint. There could be very interesting times ahead for him

Grizzly 45

Run your youtube request thru TOR browser and they are still watchable.

grassroot1

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Run your youtube request thru TOR browser and they are still watchable.

Well you can see them but I dont think they are watchable

wirehairmax

Another one up online, this is gold

Grizzly 45

Another minute of my life wasted watching that ****e!:(

grassroot1

His friend has an interesting Carlow accent

Cass

All videos relating to his gripe now removed. There are only 5 listed, when you click on videos, it shows three and none of them are the "my story" ones.

Go back and click on the video on the homepage and you get the image below.

They're still available on Facebook.

Cass

Been thinking it over for the last few days and after all the comments and discussion i'm left wondering if there is any point to leaving this thread open anymore?

I started the thread because of the connection to the article about this guy and deer poaching. However from an early point it meandered off into a rant (the videos, not the thread) and i let the thread run thinking it'd come back around to the topic, but it seems that is not to be given his last few videos.

With the removal of the videos from Youtube, and a safe bet that the same may happen with Facebook by whomever is reporting them, and the continued diminishing connection to anything shooting/hunting related i think this thread has run it's course and to leave it open would serve no purpose.

So to that end i'm going to close the thread. If there are any RELEVANT updates i'll re-open or if someone can give me a reason to allow it to run i'm happy to hear them and you can PM me with your reasons, but until that time, thread is now closed.