Rebuttal of "Deer Poacher".

Cass

I came across this video last night while skimming through Youtube. I now see it's doing the rounds on Facebook.

Its related to this thread and the same chap involved has decided to give his side of things.

Now i don't know the chap, never met him and have had no interaction with him, but if he thinks what he says in this video, and rest to come as he puts it, is going to endear him to others he may want to consider a different narrative.

In the video he:

• Defames (by name) a senior member of An Gardaíï. Not once but three times at my count.
• Says anyone that has a lease is a "Lah tee Dah" shooter, iow not really a stalker/hunter.
• Says everyone he hunts with has poached (taken a shot on the other side of the fence or on land they had no permission to be on)
• Says anyone who says to him they've never done that is talking bullsh*t.
• Says he only hunts for the fridge by taking one Deer yet this picture would seem to differ from that.
• Says everyone deserves a gun license and deserves a deer license.
• Says he will explain the law on deer poaching (someone might want to tell him it's illegal)

He contradicts or corrects himself multiple times throughout the video by saying things like:

• I've never been before the courts for deer poaching - actually i have been before the courts, but never convicted
• "Thermo" scopes are illegal - without a license, like silencers. (yeah, like guns, driving a car, owning a TV, owning a dog, etc. etc.).
• That he is not out to hurt/threaten anyone - but he has done time for the same.

He then finishes by saying he'll explain his side, why he was arrested, why he has served time, and how it's all a big conspiracy against him by the (and again he defames) the named Garda.


As i said above i don't know him, and my opinions above are based on the video he posted alone, nothing else. He comes across, based on his comments and language, as being ignorant (not knowing the proper rank, laws, etc), insulting, vague, and deflective. I wonder what will others think who are involved in things he describes. Such as those that use leases because they want/have to. How about the majority of us that stay within the law and don't poach or don't even know, personally, anyone that does poach (shoot across the fence as he puts it?).

I wrestled with the idea of putting this thread up because it links to his video and Youtube channel, and frankly i don't like the idea of someone like this getting "known" for the wrong reasons, but i'd like to get others opinions. I'd especially like to hear from those that agree with him as he already has "likes" on Youtube so a few people out there must agree with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNGinDA6rxI

Chiparus

Not the sharpest tool in the box.

Croohur

Watched a few minutes of it when it came up on FAcebook, but eventually had to turn it off. Rambling, incoherent, and as you mention Cass he contradicts himself constantly. He talks about writing an autobiography!!! Now theres a ghost writer thats going to earn his money.
Kept talking about how he wasnt a poacher, but then kept saying he was going to talk about deer poaching.....
I wouldnt want him on my debating team anyway.

Grizzly 45

Nope! You are an idiot and thats why you got caught.You didnt know when to quit and you didnt know how to keep your mouth shut on social media.So now you are pussing on in a bad YT video on your innocence.Looking forward to your book,might be abit more coherent than that wasted 9mins of my life.:rolleyes:.

J.R.

He would be well advised to check out the defamation laws in Ireland...even on Facebook

https://www.defamationireland.com/defamation-on-facebook/

Defamation on Facebook in Ireland
If somebody has made untrue and derogatory remarks about you, your children or your business on Facebook, you have the right to defend your reputation under the Defamation Act 2009 by making compensation claims for defamation on Facebook.

However, before exercising that right, there are certain issues with regard to claiming compensation for defamation on Facebook that prevent many people from proceeding with legal action. This article explains what some of those issues are.


Some successful cases:

https://www.defamationireland.com/compensation-for-defamation-on-facebook/


https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/hospital-worker-awarded-65k-after-being-defamed-on-facebook-36345960.html

Cass

Second video is up. It's brilliant. I mean if you are going to rant about how innocent you are, write it down and read from your statement. FFS.

He said a few times how "i shot for years beside this man". Funny he told us in video one he never had a firearms license, and repeats this a few times throughout both videos.

He said "when i went for a deer my mates went for a deer". Keeps letting the mask slip.

Then towards the end he says "The way the papers talk about how i have a license to kill. I wish i had, i know who'd i start with. The corrupt Gardaí for a start".

Couple the above with now defaming not only An Gardaí, but named individuals in the IDC, and others. Sweet Jesus, this guy is digging a huge hole for himself and doesn't have the cop on to realise and stop.

Gatling

Innocent poacher !

Nolan is well-known to gardai. In July 2007 he was given a two-year jail sentence for his role in a brawl that resulted in an off-duty garda's jaw being broken.

In 2013, he was convicted of three offences relating to shooting rights and trespassing in Hacketstown, Co Carlow.

He received a two-year driving ban in 2010 for dangerous driving at the Sally Gap, Co Wicklow, which related to an incident in which he was followed by gardai investigating poaching in the locality.

The father-of-three was also convicted of animal cruelty in 2008 after a hound was set on a deer.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/john-nogsey-nolan-the-violent-criminal-at-the-centre-of-a-garda-probe-into-illegal-poaching-called-operation-bambi-34300880.html

Deadlift kid

Well now my first time seen this video didnt jnow of it or he had a yt channel but ill say this im not surprised he's a tool,

been from the same locality as him id know the fella but also ie dealing with same gardai but nogs is a well known poacher in the area among a complete and utter sh#*head imo the worst and shouldnt be anywhere near a firearm

Is well known to have been aggressive and threatened to land owners while tresspassing/shooting on their land while in possession of a firearm gives us all a bad bad name makes things more difficult imo im only seem this thread and page 1 I had to comment ill continue along but I know hes had incidences before ya might want to google the threatening landowners piece he's the worst imo

Been extremely honest he's From real bad click runs in bad clicks a real violent mouth piece now ive got it off my chest but I dunno how he managed to slip between the cracks myself to get a firearm .. but ive witnessed his quarry in back of jeep one time at a garage bragging how many he takes said jeep was packed to the roof back to front with deer sika reds the lot im a shooter and all for our rights but this guy takes the piss I could go on some more about his salmons fishing ahem poaching cough cough

tac foley

He truly is the man for whom that wonderful word 'Gobsh*te' was originally coined.

My late da would have said of him that 'he's fatal to himself'.

Deadlift kid

Just watched the video there he states he's never had a gun licence this guy is known to been shooting for yrs I always assumed he had a licence how does he but his ammo or where ? How? I dunno what to make of it

JohnFitz2332

Absolute knacker

Chiparus

Great entertainment , almost on a par with SImon O'Donnell crossed with Hardy bucks
Should be encouraged.

Danzy

Is there a want in him.

What rate type of fool puts up a video like that.

meathstevie

I think he is confusing conspiracy with conducting an investigation and presenting evidence.

Saying that he's a good lad and his offences were really only little teensieweensie bits of a little bit of wrongdoing because of the nasty blister on his left big toe is his solicitor's job, not the investigating Garda's.

Danzy

meathstevie wrote: »

I think he is confusing conspiracy with conducting an investigation and presenting evidence.

Saying that he's a good lad and his offences were really only little teensieweensie bits of a little bit of wrongdoing because of the nasty blister on his left big toe is his solicitor's job, not the investigating Garda's.

He is determined to make sure the Guards have enough again at him.

solarwinds

Better to look a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

J.R.

Cass wrote: »

Second video is up. It's brilliant.
Couple the above with now defaming not only An Gardaí, but named individuals in the IDC, and others. Sweet Jesus, this guy is digging a huge hole for himself and doesn't have the cop on to realise and stop.

I've just watched it - hard to believe anybody would make such a video

Asus1

Had he ever a gun licence.When your selling deer to a dealer do you show your licence and is it logged in a database to show how many deer each licence is killing.Are deer tagged when brought in so there is some sort of traceability as is done with cattle.

dodderangler

Sounds like another shïte in the bucket to me

Chiparus

dodderangler wrote: »

Sounds like another shïte in the bucket to me

What happened to Simon O'Donnell?

grassroot1

A triumph of our education system a truly wonderful human being and three children to boot. No more videos please my cup flows over already.

Hunter456

There is alot of this type of scum in every county that is poaching deer, i have looked at every article wrote about him and to give my 2 cents on this individual the image that was posted in the paper with all the deer on the floor and him pumping himself up to make himself look like the hulk (gone wrong) speaks a thousand words to describe this parasite of society, he keeps going on about doing time as if his proud of what his done, he can try and justify his actions but i'm not buying it and anyone that agree's with him is worse. his an out and out low life disgusting human being simple as that.

11117

I know of him fairly well. Definitely not the sharpest tool in the box but he does raise some valid points and some truths at the same time. The whole deer stalking establishments/groups/individual stalkers portray themselves as whiter than white. I’d tend to agree with his assertion about lads shooting that deer on the other side of the “fence” when nobody is around to see. Also I can see some reason behind his logic of the deer groups and certain individuals using their positions to look after themselves and their own when it comes to gaining shooting rights to areas around forestry leases.

I’ve stalked for over 20 years and the longer I’m at it the more I think that we should look to the New Zealand model. No closed season, no game dealers. It’s a recreational pastime to go out and hunt for meat. Back to basics approach. The whole attitude towards stalking here is based on the old British idea of the deer being the kings animal. Open it up and allow access to public lands via whatever means, ban game sales to dealers.

Will it ever happen? No is the answer. Because the same guys that cry online and to whoever will listen about game dealers being an outlet for poaching are the same people that rely on the dealers to supplement the price paid for their leases by selling deer to the dealers.

Chiparus

11117 wrote: »

I know of him fairly well. Definitely not the sharpest tool in the box but he does raise some valid points and some truths at the same time. The whole deer stalking establishments/groups/individual stalkers portray themselves as whiter than white. I’d tend to agree with his assertion about lads shooting that deer on the other side of the “fence” when nobody is around to see. Also I can see some reason behind his logic of the deer groups and certain individuals using their positions to look after themselves and their own when it comes to gaining shooting rights to areas around forestry leases.

I’ve stalked for over 20 years and the longer I’m at it the more I think that we should look to the New Zealand model. No closed season, no game dealers. It’s a recreational pastime to go out and hunt for meat. Back to basics approach. The whole attitude towards stalking here is based on the old British idea of the deer being the kings animal. Open it up and allow access to public lands via whatever means, ban game sales to dealers.

Will it ever happen? No is the answer. Because the same guys that cry online and to whoever will listen about game dealers being an outlet for poaching are the same people that rely on the dealers to supplement the price paid for their leases by selling deer to the dealers.

Nice Idea , but we have a land border with another jurisrtiction and open borders to allow many other nationalities to enter and leave .

if you opened it up , deer would end up in refrigerated containers and leave the country by the container load.

Poaching and overfishing has destroyed our salmon rivers, knackers like Nogsy would have a field day if we do not control deer hunting.

Brontosaurus

11117 wrote: »

I know of him fairly well. Definitely not the sharpest tool in the box but he does raise some valid points and some truths at the same time. The whole deer stalking establishments/groups/individual stalkers portray themselves as whiter than white. I’d tend to agree with his assertion about lads shooting that deer on the other side of the “fence” when nobody is around to see. Also I can see some reason behind his logic of the deer groups and certain individuals using their positions to look after themselves and their own when it comes to gaining shooting rights to areas around forestry leases.

I’ve stalked for over 20 years and the longer I’m at it the more I think that we should look to the New Zealand model. No closed season, no game dealers. It’s a recreational pastime to go out and hunt for meat. Back to basics approach. The whole attitude towards stalking here is based on the old British idea of the deer being the kings animal. Open it up and allow access to public lands via whatever means, ban game sales to dealers.

Will it ever happen? No is the answer. Because the same guys that cry online and to whoever will listen about game dealers being an outlet for poaching are the same people that rely on the dealers to supplement the price paid for their leases by selling deer to the dealers.

So any gob****e should be able to go onto public lands and shoot away, with no vetting as to safety and competence?

11117

if you opened it up , deer would end up in refrigerated containers and leave the country by the container load.

The above is totally over reaching and ridiculous in all fairness. There is so much over reaction and sensationalism about poaching

11117

Brontosaurus wrote: »

So any gob****e should be able to go onto public lands and shoot away, with no vetting as to safety and competence?

It works in other countries. Why couldn’t it here? A lot of the gob****es as you refer to them are the ones with the firearms and dee permits

Grizzly 45

Apart from NZ,where else has a no season deer hunting regime?NZ has it because deer are an invasive species introduced there 200 years ago.Not to mind how many escapees from deer farms.

The solution to this is simple...Remove the easy money aspect from this and people like Nogsy and his types will disapper under the rock they crawled out from in the first place.Put a 5 year moratorium on sales of wild venison to game dealers and lets see then if;

1] There is an over or under pouplation of deeer here as claimed.

2] How many game dealers will be in profit or not afterwards.As the domestic/UK market is mostly supplied by farmed NZ deer,that our own commercial European deer farmers cant compete.

grassroot1

Take the money out of deer and most of the poaching will stop

Hunter456

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Apart from NZ,where else has a no season deer hunting regime?NZ has it because deer are an invasive species introduced there 200 years ago.Not to mind how many escapees from deer farms.

The solution to this is simple...Remove the easy money aspect from this and people like Nogsy and his types will disapper under the rock they crawled out from in the first place.Put a 5 year moratorium on sales of wild venison to game dealers and lets see then if;

1] There is an over or under pouplation of deeer here as claimed.

2] How many game dealers will be in profit or not afterwards.As the domestic/UK market is mostly supplied by farmed NZ deer,that our own commercial European deer farmers cant compete.

Fully agree with grizzly take the money side out of it and these scumbags will just disappear and watch a siffnicant drop in deer license applications they will fall drastically...

Cass

Lads,

This is not directed at any one person, just a general notice.

I started this thread to open a discussion on the topic as well as the person involved. There is too much name calling/insults and i'd like it to stop before i end up having to closing the thread for the same reasons as i said the guy is foolish for the way he made the videos.

Lets try be a little better and keep it civil.

Thanks.

Cass

Firstly, thanks. First person to come on and while i won't say you're defending the guy, you are opening up the discussion which is exactly what i wanted to see.

11117 wrote: »

The whole deer stalking establishments/groups/individual stalkers portray themselves as whiter than white.

Correct.

I’d tend to agree with his assertion about lads shooting that deer on the other side of the “fence” when nobody is around to see.

I tend to agree too, but his assertion is not that some lads might try this if given the chance. He says everyone does it, and anyone that says they don't is talking bullsh*t.

That is a huge, and incorrect, assumption. While there are those that, as you say, paint themselves whiter than white when in fact they may not be, to tarnish the entire community simply because he lives in a world where it happens is wrong, and such statements are the reason why we are forced to defend ourselves because the opposition use those as fact and not he works of fiction they are.

Also I can see some reason behind his logic of the deer groups and certain individuals using their positions to look after themselves and their own when it comes to gaining shooting rights to areas around forestry leases.

Correct too. Look at the IDS and their mandatory training course which has opened the flood gates.

Open it up and allow access to public lands via whatever means, .........

Not sure how i feel about that so i'll refrain from answering.

11117 wrote: »

A lot of the gob****es as you refer to them are the ones with the firearms and dee permits

BEing saying that for years.

The problem with the that attitude and it's evident from the guy's videos, is he believes that others doing is a license for him to do it. The few doing it are the exception, not the rule.

berettaman

Genuinely thought this was a hardy bucks skit.


This guy is all over the shop. Not a jot. He is naming individuals. He is contradicting himself.


He is a disgrace and this is shameful stuff.



I know lads that scrape hard earned cash together to get a lease to shoot deer. They are not "Lah tee Dah", far from it.


This will end badly.

11117

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Apart from NZ,where else has a no season deer hunting regime?NZ has it because deer are an invasive species introduced there 200 years ago.Not to mind how many escapees from deer farms.





The solution to this is simple...Remove the easy money aspect from this and people like Nogsy and his types will disapper under the rock they crawled out from in the first place.Put a 5 year moratorium on sales of wild venison to game dealers and lets see then if;

1] There is an over or under pouplation of deeer here as claimed.

2] How many game dealers will be in profit or not afterwards.As the domestic/UK market is mostly supplied by farmed NZ deer,that our own commercial European deer farmers cant compete.

Are they not an invasive/introduced species here too? Hybridisation with native reds in Wicklow

Exactly, couldn’t agree more. Will it ever happen? No, because the same guys that cry about poaching/ dealers are the same people that use them to fund the crazy money paid for leases. That’s without even talking about the revenue generated from estate stalking sales to dealers

11117

Cass wrote: »

Firstly, thanks. First person to come on and while i won't say you're defending the guy, you are opening up the discussion which is exactly what i wanted to see.

Correct.

I tend to agree too, but his assertion is not that some lads might try this if given the chance. He says everyone does it, and anyone that says they don't is talking bullsh*t.

That is a huge, and incorrect, assumption. While there are those that, as you say, paint themselves whiter than white when in fact they may not be, to tarnish the entire community simply because he lives in a world where it happens is wrong, and such statements are the reason why we are forced to defend ourselves because the opposition use those as fact and not he works of fiction they are.



Correct too. Look at the IDS and their mandatory training course which has opened the flood gates.

Not sure how i feel about that so i'll refrain from answering.


BEing saying that for years.

The problem with the that attitude and it's evident from the guy's videos, is he believes that others doing is a license for him to do it. The few doing it are the exception, not the rule.

Definitely not defending him. He’s brain dead and his videos should be removed immediately. I’m sure he will get what he deserves when the relevant people/authorities catch up with him.

The whole thing needs to be looked at from scratch. There are too many vested interests calling the shots. I’m trying to open up the debate as you say, and trying to put a different perspective on things. It’s not working the way it is and it’s getting worse year on year. That’s even without all the bs you hear getting spouted continuously

Half-cocked

11117 wrote: »

I’m sure he will get what he deserves when the relevant people/authorities catch up with him.

I wouldn't bet on it. Slap on the wrist at most.

Mech1

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gardai-using-sophisticated-dna-analysis-in-war-against-poachers-shooting-and-selling-wild-deer-38327265.html

11117

Mech1 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gardai-using-sophisticated-dna-analysis-in-war-against-poachers-shooting-and-selling-wild-deer-38327265.html

Another one with the same level of iq.

BattleCorp

11117 wrote: »

Another one with the same level of iq.

They are mates. From within a few miles of each other.

They have claimed to have shot over 20 deer in a night. Not sure if that's true but I wouldn't be surprised.

Grizzly 45

11117 wrote: »

Are they not an invasive/introduced species here too? Hybridisation with native reds in Wicklow

Fallow in Norman times .Sika in the 18th century in Powerscourt.Along with pheasents,magpies, Ivy ,Rhotodenderons etc,etc.When does an invasive species stop becoming invasive and a natural part of the countryside?
This is kind of the same stupid arguement made by Natives that "the Brits in NI" should go home to the UK!"Seeing that their fammlies in some cases have been here since the plantations in the 16th century...Also,deer are not at pest level porportions,despite much claims to the contary here as they are in NZ.

Exactly, couldn’t agree more. Will it ever happen? No, because the same guys that cry about poaching/ dealers are the same people that use them to fund the crazy money paid for leases. That’s without even talking about the revenue generated from estate stalking sales to dealers

How much does an average estate make on deer carcasses?After working on Dromoland estate many years ago in the 80s,even back then a few carcasses wont and didnt even pay the wages and up keep of the farm staff. The people who make the money on this are GA's .Low out going on the carcasses,high income returns on the meat,and more so on the sirlions,fillets,oysters and strips.The rest is just extra sugar according to one GD I talked to. Shooting estates making money in Ireland is a myth.Hunters will come here for the novelty value of hunting in Ireland,but until estates or hunting companies more like,can consistently show world class trophies in Reds or fallows or Sika,and I'm talking 6kilo plus dry trophy skull weights that can equal East bloc countries.Which can be done here,if there was proper conservation and planned shoots.No one will take Ireland seriously as a shooting location for deer.

11117

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Fallow in Norman times .Sika in the 18th century in Powerscourt.Along with pheasents,magpies, Ivy ,Rhotodenderons etc,etc.When does an invasive species stop becoming invasive and a natural part of the countryside?
This is kind of the same stupid arguement made by Natives that "the Brits in NI" should go home to the UK!"Seeing that their fammlies in some cases have been here since the plantations in the 16th century...Also,deer are not at pest level porportions,despite much claims to the contary here as they are in NZ.

And in the early 1900’s sika to New Zealand. This is not an argument at all. You’re choosing to side track this with rants about Brits in Northern Ireland!!!
And on your point about deer being at pest levels, they are indeed in Wicklow. They are crossing roads and standing in groups mid day in plain sight of roads. This was not the case 4-5 year ago when you’d be at pains to see one at first light. Believe me I was there back then and am witnessing it now. I’ve never seen as many deer as I have this year.


How much does an average estate make on deer carcasses?After working on Dromoland estate many years ago in the 80s,even back then a few carcasses wont and didnt even pay the wages and up keep of the farm staff. The people who make the money on this are GA's .Low out going on the carcasses,high income returns on the meat,and more so on the sirlions,fillets,oysters and strips.The rest is just extra sugar according to one GD I talked to. Shooting estates making money in Ireland is a myth.Hunters will come here for the novelty value of hunting in Ireland,but until estates or hunting companies more like,can consistently show world class trophies in Reds or fallows or Sika,and I'm talking 6kilo plus dry trophy skull weights that can equal East bloc countries.Which can be done here,if there was proper conservation and planned shoots.No one will take Ireland seriously as a shooting location for deer.

Of course it’s a good source of income for them as well as commercial shooters. Obviously it’s nothing compared to the trophy fees or cull hunt fees. But you cannot deny that at €2/kg within the numbers harvested that it’s not a tidy sum when added up at the end of the season.

Back in the 80’s is not comparable to the present day no matter what way you try to twist it.

11117

BattleCorp wrote: »

They are mates. From within a few miles of each other.

They have claimed to have shot over 20 deer in a night. Not sure if that's true but I wouldn't be surprised.

They are indeed. Both of them aren’t too far from me at all. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it’s true either but at the same time it would be some going. Half the figure might be realistic. We all know how these lads like to inflate the numbers in the pub or wherever

Gorgeousgeorge

The garda in question is my local super. Sound man and he is as straight as they come. Very accommodating of our sport and as a shooting community in kildare be it target/clay/hunting we are very lucky to have him.

Grizzly 45

11117 wrote: »

Of course it’s a good source of income for them as well as commercial shooters. Obviously it’s nothing compared to the trophy fees or cull hunt fees. But you cannot deny that at €2/kg within the numbers harvested that it’s not a tidy sum when added up at the end of the season.

Back in the 80’s is not comparable to the present day no matter what way you try to twist it.

E2 a kilo...Why bother getting out into the field for that?The GD is making 8/10euros a kilo.Just so you have an idea on WHO is making the money here... So much so that some of these fukers arent botherd being hauled into the district court and can pay the max of a 20 k fine imposeable by a dist court there and then,and write it off as a" busisness expense".:mad:

I'm not trying to "twist " anything..Im pointing a fact out from 35 years hunting both in Ireland and abroad that no one will pay the stupid money the Irish expect for sub par trophies and hunting experiance TWICE.And this has been a problem from the 80s. Whether we like it or not.We have novelty value in the international deer hunting scene,not record value.Or in some cases value for money either.

solarwinds

11117 wrote: »

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Of course it’s a good source of income for them as well as commercial shooters. Obviously it’s nothing compared to the trophy fees or cull hunt fees. But you cannot deny that at €2/kg within the numbers harvested that it’s not a tidy sum when added up at the end of the season.

Back in the 80’s is not comparable to the present day no matter what way you try to twist it.

E2 a kilo...Why bother getting out into the field for that?The GD is making 8/10euros a kilo.Just so you have an idea on WHO is making the money here... So much so that some of these fukers arent botherd being hauled into the district court and can pay the max of a 20 k fine imposeable by a dist court there and then,and write it off as a" busisness expense".:mad:

I'm not trying to "twist " anything..Im pointing a fact out from 35 years hunting both in Ireland and abroad that no one will pay the stupid money the Irish expect for sub par trophies and hunting experiance TWICE.And this has been a problem from the 80s. Whether we like it or not.We have novelty value in the international deer hunting scene,not record value.Or in some cases value for money either.

It could be a different story if proper deer management was employed. A lot of places guys just go in and shoot whatever they can every year both good and bad, and not leaving the strongest to breed.
As usual for most people and not just hunters its all about the short term quick gains and not the bigger picture of longer term management.

Grizzly 45

And in the early 1900’s sika to New Zealand. This is not an argument at all. You’re choosing to side track this with rants about Brits in Northern Ireland!!!
And on your point about deer being at pest levels, they are indeed in Wicklow. They are crossing roads and standing in groups mid day in plain sight of roads. This was not the case 4-5 year ago when you’d be at pains to see one at first light. Believe me I was there back then and am witnessing it now. I’ve never seen as many deer as I have this year.

Oh Lordie!!:rolleyes:
I'm not side tracking anything .I'm pointing the stupidity of your arguement claiming species that have been here for centuries, using the example ofpeople in NI are native not invasive..Although it could be argued arbitarily and subjectively that they are "naturalised" rather than "native,"

Wicklow isnt all of Ireland either...:) There are other parts where there hasnt been a deer sighted in 4or5 years too where they were plentiful.You have "hotspots" in the East as we do in some parts of the West and South,but it doesnt say they are a native and consistent pouplation either.

11117

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

E2 a kilo...Why bother getting out into the field for that?The GD is making 8/10euros a kilo.Just so you have an idea on WHO is making the money here... So much so that some of these fukers arent botherd being hauled into the district court and can pay the max of a 20 k fine imposeable by a dist court there and then,and write it off as a" busisness expense".:mad:

I'm not trying to "twist " anything..Im pointing a fact out from 35 years hunting both in Ireland and abroad that no one will pay the stupid money the Irish expect for sub par trophies and hunting experiance TWICE.And this has been a problem from the 80s. Whether we like it or not.We have novelty value in the international deer hunting scene,not record value.Or in some cases value for money either.

I’m well aware of where and who is making the money here.

Nobody will pay twice? Are you for real. I know a couple of guys running commercial hunts and roughly 75% of their business is returning hunters year on year who are prepared to pay good money for what you call sub standard trophies.

11117

solarwinds wrote: »

It could be a different story if proper deer management was employed. A lot of places guys just go in and shoot whatever they can every year both good and bad, and not leaving the strongest to breed.
As usual for most people and not just hunters its all about the short term quick gains and not the bigger picture of longer term management.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, no matter how unfair it sounds. There are too many licenses issued. 4 or 5 lads are sharing land permission on some places and will shoot the first thing they see because if they don’t the next lad will. This also gives rise to shooting one on the other side of the fence and lends itself to a free for all. We all know this is happening

11117

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Oh Lordie!!:rolleyes:
I'm not side tracking anything .I'm pointing the stupidity of your arguement claiming species that have been here for centuries, using the example ofpeople in NI are native not invasive..Although it could be argued arbitarily and subjectively that they are "naturalised" rather than "native,"

Wicklow isnt all of Ireland either...:) There are other parts where there hasnt been a deer sighted in 4or5 years too where they were plentiful.You have "hotspots" in the East as we do in some parts of the West and South,but it doesnt say they are a native and consistent pouplation either.

It’s not stupid at all. Just because it’s not in agreement with your philosophy doesn’t make it wrong. They are wild mammals, open it up. Why should they be afforded special status? Because of vested interests and money and greed. . It always comes back to money and greed in this country.

It sure isn’t. Where did I say it was? I used it as an example that there are plenty of deer out there. I have shooting in a couple of places in Tipperary and it’s the same issue there. Of course they are. The numbers are returning because there is less poaching going on now than 5-10 years ago. People are more aware of it throughout the countryside and it’s being rightly reported. 5 years ago you could nearly drive through the Hills in Wicklow in the middle of the night with your lights off because it was that bad. It’s not like that now

Grizzly 45

11117 wrote: »

I’m well aware of where and who is making the money here.

Good! Then dont becoming out saying people are becoming millionares from this

Nobody will pay twice? Are you for real. I know a couple of guys running commercial hunts and roughly 75% of their business is returning hunters year on year who are prepared to pay good money for what you call sub standard trophies.

Any of those trophies over 5 kilo dry weight??? How many Gold heads do they produce per annum under the CIC measuring system?? THAT is the kind of stuff that top payers want to see...And over the years too.So please do stick up their web address so we can see this place and their heads???Seems we like to hide our lights under a bushel here then.:rolleyes:

Here is a German article on how much a disappointment they had.[Google translate will do a trans for you]

https://jagdwaffennetzwerk.blogspot.com/2016/07/misserfolg-auf-sika-in-irland.html
It reads like Fawlty Towers goes hunting. And its not the only one.A google of Irish hunting experiances will say the same. We want to be taken seriously,we need to get our act together.

Grizzly 45

11117 wrote: »

It’s not stupid at all. Just because it’s not in agreement with your philosophy doesn’t make it wrong. They are wild mammals, open it up. Why should they be afforded special status? Because of vested interests and money and greed. . It always comes back to money and greed in this country.

You dont have to agree with me or not..But you havent noticed the contradiction in your arguement???

It sure isn’t. Where did I say it was? I used it as an example that there are plenty of deer out there.

In one particular part of the country... The Irish deer management foroum say themselves,although how they can say it without a survey,that Wicklow is suffering from Hotspots of deer pouplations,while in other areas there is a reduction.

I have shooting in a couple of places in Tipperary and it’s the same issue there. Of course they are. The numbers are returning because there is less poaching going on now than 5-10 years ago

How do we know???Are there any NPWS/AGS/Irish deer organisations figures out there to justify that statement???It seems that we only hear about cases like these when it is a "sure thing"and media reported.

People are more aware of it throughout the countryside and it’s being rightly reported.

Which is a good thing,but no doubt the pros have switched to "thermo vision";) to go about this work.

5 years ago you could nearly drive through the Hills in Wicklow in the middle of the night with your lights off because it was that bad. It’s not like that now

Yeah,they have proably all come over to us here in Clare,Galway and the West.:p