Irishman set to be deported from the US

dodderangler

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Sure it doesn't. You can't just buy citizenship there are going to be a lot of other conditions probably including not having being convicted of a crime.
Something tells me he is not going to make 500k on a gofund me anyway.

I hope he doesn’t. That go fund me thing is a joke. Yeah we’ll give you money because you broke the law.
We’ll start a go fund me page for drug dealers aswell so or a convicted killer that wants the latest Xbox for prison and a flat screen tv with surround sound To play it on

circular flexing

MadYaker wrote: »

He's married to an American there a few ways he could have gotten a green card, he didn't even begin the process despite being in the country for over a decade. I'm in favor of immigration but it has to be regulated and controlled via laws. We can't ignore the laws just because the guy has a family. There is a naturalisation process that he could have used to legalize his status, he chose not to do that and that's his fault not the systems.

It sounds like he did try to adjust his status though and that's when the drug convictions came to light. You don't need to present a Garda certificate when entering under VWP but you need to file one when applying for a GC.

JP Liz V1

Sonny noggs wrote: »

He chose to overstay knowing the risk of getting caught and sent home was always there. Not much else to be said.

Can he appeal as he is married to a US citizen and has kids, sorry not familiar with US immigration laws or does Trump still want every non American out

BrokenArrows

Stucks to be him, but he got himself into this situation and just because you have kids its no reason for a country to allow you to stay.

Donald Trump

listermint wrote: »

There no way in hell that figure is true.

I saw a documentary about some fella from central America. He was in the US for years. I think he came legally but fell out of status. Was applying for GC. Then, somehow or other fell out of that process at the final stage - I think he did not attend the final interview. Either he didn't get the notification of just didn't bother as he was just about to get married to an American born girl at that stage.


Fast forward maybe 12 years. He's married with about 4 or 5 kids. One of them is physically disabled so the wife stays at home to mind the kids. They live in a lovely big house and your man has a big contracting business. All legitimate. Then he gets stopped some day by traffic police. They do a scan, see some irregularity and he gets brought to the barracks and locked up.


Then he gets deported to wherever he was from. Maybe El Salvador. Business goes under. Wife living on food stamps. Takes them months to get it sorted and at the end of it he is brought back. The figure quoted as to the cost of deporting the man was 80k. That doesn't count the loss to him as a result of his business going under. It might count towards whatever benefits the wife was on.





The above is from my memory. If anyone has serious doubts about it I can look for the link later.

Donald Trump

dodderangler wrote: »

I hope he doesn’t. That go fund me thing is a joke. Yeah we’ll give you money because you broke the law.
We’ll start a go fund me page for drug dealers aswell so or a convicted killer that wants the latest Xbox for prison and a flat screen tv with surround sound To play it on

That's awful waffle. Nobody is giving money because he "broke the law". I'd assume they are giving money because they are friends or family of the fella and don't want him deported.

Cryptopagan

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Stucks to be him, but he got himself into this situation and just because you have kids its no reason for a country to allow you to stay.

It’s an excellent reason to allow someone to stay.

Cork Trucker

Doesn’t matter if the conviction was 10 years ago or 16 years ago in this case, the convictions stand. Did anyone ever think that it’s the convictions regime in Ireland that needs reform? By right anything like this over 10 years old should be erased, it doesn’t represent what that person is today, especially if there’s nothing since. Murder/rape/drug dealing/other serious offences rightly should stay for life, but personal drug possession/minor assaults/petty theft, all these need to be wiped. Yes he played the system in a way that would work in Ireland for permanent residency/citizenship but this is the United States of Trump.

his family should push the Irish government to erase the convictions, they are literally a life sentence in their own right, get onto Lynn Ruane the senator who is seeking to change this law. I myself was convicted of common assault in 1998 aged 18, it still haunts me now and I’m nearly 40, not a peep out of me since, I was also rejected for America and Australia since 2008, Keith boy if your family are reading this I hope things work out for you and them both here and in America

NSAman

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Can he appeal as he is married to a US citizen and has kids, sorry not familiar with US immigration laws or does Trump still want every non American out

What a silly comment.

There are laws which have to be followed. There are VISAs which could have been gained.

Trump is following US Law with this clampdown and if you break the law anywhere (except Ireland) there are consequences.

Perhaps you should try and live here in the States and see where things are going and what unfettered immigration actually does.

The guy went into the States with one VISA, he could have left the States in good time and then re-applied. He didn't. He married, he could have moved back to Ireland and gained the proper VISA but didn't. He chose to act illegally.

While I understand children are involved, these "anchor babies" are used by many to stay here. It is not nice for the family, that I understand but the guy had many years to solve this situation and didn't.

He may be a productive member of the American Tax system and also his community but he is still there illegally. VISA's cost money and it is not a cheap issue.... I know personally. But (and this is a big but) if you want to start a family and live in a country, make sure you have everything organised first.

Sunny Disposition

Guy breaks law but should be allowed to get away with it, just completely ignore the breach and the unfairness to people who did comply with the regulations. In fact compound it by continue to give him the advantages those who complied didn’t get.
Some brilliant minds around.

MadYaker

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Sure it does, it's a price, one can buy it, the wealth Chinese buy citizenship there a lot. It's 500k I think.

If you’re starting a business in America and investing half a million dollars or more you can apply through a different process that is usually faster.

Cork Trucker

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Guy breaks law but should be allowed to get away with it, just completely ignore the breach and the unfairness to people who did comply with the regulations. In fact compound it by continue to give him the advantages those who complied didn’t get.
Some brilliant minds around.

If Ireland had the same spent convictions legislation that most of Europe have, such as the departing UK since 1974 the convictions would probably have been expunged and the issue resolved.

Are you someone who believes a conviction should remain in place until a person goes to the grave/crematorium and beyond?

NSAman

MadYaker wrote: »

If you’re starting a business in America and investing half a million dollars or more you can apply through a different process that is usually faster.

You also have to have 10 employees (I think that is the number)...

Sunny Disposition

Cork Trucker wrote: »

If Ireland had the same spent convictions legislation that most of Europe have, such as the departing UK since 1974 the convictions would probably have been expunged and the issue resolved.

Are you someone who believes a conviction should remain in place until a person goes to the grave/crematorium and beyond?

I’m really talking about the immigration regulations.
But the drugs convictions are a serious matter for sure, would be fine with it if my country didn’t grant visas to anyone with drug convictions.
America is right not to take in such people, there is heavy demand for US visas, they can easily do without anyone with a criminal record.

Cork Trucker

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I’m really talking about the immigration regulations.
But the drugs convictions are a serious matter for sure, would be fine with it if my country didn’t grant visas to anyone with drug convictions.
America is right not to take in such people, there is heavy demand for US visas, they can easily do without anyone with a criminal record.

I’m not condemning America at all, they have their laws and they must be respected. You can be sure we take in and grant citizenship to guys with a worse track record then Byrne, if the records are thoroughly checked from non EU countries that is, not always possible I assume.

If what was said us true and he was caught with s few joints of marijuana it would be dealt with by a caution, while I don’t agree with what he did there just be a stage where enough is enough and if no further offending took place to let it go. It’ll be another debate that will roll on for a while. If the family relocate here with him his wife will become entangled in a child custody battle over the eldest child with her ex husband no doubt.

Sunny Disposition

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I’m not condemning America at all, they have their laws and they must be respected. You can be sure we take in and grant citizenship to guys with a worse track record then Byrne, if the records are thoroughly checked from non EU countries that is, not always possible I assume.

If what was said us true and he was caught with s few joints of marijuana it would be dealt with by a caution, while I don’t agree with what he did there just be a stage where enough is enough and if no further offending took place to let it go. It’ll be another debate that will roll on for a while. If the family relocate here with him his wife will become entangled in a child custody battle over the eldest child with her ex husband no doubt.

They have brought the hardship on themselves. They broke the rules knowingly and are stick with the consequences. It is proper and just.

BarryD2

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I myself was convicted of common assault in 1998 aged 18, it still haunts me now and I’m nearly 40, not a peep out of me since, I was also rejected for America and Australia since 2008

You're right, there should be a system for erasing a criminal record for relatively common and relatively minor misdemeanors. Perhaps a sliding scale of community work or some such redress to society that would allow people to clear the slate.

jam_mac_jam

I don't see why, countries don't want people who have convictions in their country. They have a right to be picky, very sad for the people involved but fair from the countries point of view. I think we would feel the same.

Stephen15

100% he should be deported he broke the law in America and he should be made pay for that doesn't matter if he has children or not he still broke the law. All the people who call me a racist for wanting to deport illegal immigrants in Ireland even though I think lrish people should be deported too.

Cork Trucker

BarryD2 wrote: »

You're right, there should be a system for erasing a criminal record for relatively common and relatively minor misdemeanors. Perhaps a sliding scale of community work or some such redress to society that would allow people to clear the slate.

I gave Charlie Flanagan and Lynn Ruane a shout, the UK system is in place since 1974, Ireland which aims to be the teachers pet in Europe is the last in the line in this area, and even what they introduced had to be done while kicking and screaming. More reform is needed, people like me,Keith Byrne and thousands of others are at the mercy of the legislation. I don't blame the USA for a single second, they are following the legislation they have in place.

https://twitter.com/CorkTruckDriver/status/1150790504474451969

Cork Trucker

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I don't see why, countries don't want people who have convictions in their country. They have a right to be picky, very sad for the people involved but fair from the countries point of view. I think we would feel the same.

Should a conviction follow people for life? especially the minor ones? I'm open to correction but it was a few spliff's yeah? what relevance has that 16 years later if no further offences are committed? Flanagan and Cowen openly admitted to taking illegal substances and still travel to all these countries even if they have no conviction.

Stephen15 wrote: »

100% he should be deported he broke the law in America and he should be made pay for that doesn't matter if he has children or not he still broke the law. All the people who call me a racist for wanting to deport illegal immigrants in Ireland even though I think lrish people should be deported too.

The laws of the land in any country must apply, this case is no different, my argument is about the convictions not being spent/erased, if they were we wouldn't be having the discussion or it wouldn't have hit the news most likely.

thebaz

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

But the drugs convictions are a serious matter for sure, would be fine with it if my country didn’t grant visas to anyone with drug convictions.
America is right not to take in such people, there is heavy demand for US visas, they can easily do without anyone with a criminal record.

some of the puritan commentary on here is beyond harsh - regarding breaking the law, for being convicted for a little bit of weed , given weed is now legal in many US states , and is supposedly a big business ready to take off , and weed is probably less harmful than alcohol , cigarettes and many over-the-counter legal medicines - I dont smoke weed these days, but I would expect weed to be legal in ireland in the next few years , its nearly decrimianlised as it is - Conviction for a small amount of weed is hardly a major crime, given the amount of people who smoke it.

fryup

we don't hesitate in deporting illegals in this country....so lets stop this hypocrisy once and for all

he broke the law, out you go..............next

Cryptopagan

Cryptopagan wrote:

It’s an excellent reason to allow someone to stay.

No it isn't.

Stheno

BarryD2 wrote: »

You're right, there should be a system for erasing a criminal record for relatively common and relatively minor misdemeanors. Perhaps a sliding scale of community work or some such redress to society that would allow people to clear the slate.

We have a spent convictions law since 2016

Sunny Disposition

Two separate drugs charges. Maybe he’d have had a chance of getting probation act for one, but being caught a second time shows he didn’t respect the law here either.
That’s before he decided he should be exempt from US immigration regulations. No way this guy should get a pass.

Cork Trucker

Stheno wrote: »

We have a spent convictions law since 2016

It's heavily restrictive, i looked at it myself.

Il Fascista

fryup wrote: »

we don't hesitate in deporting illegals in this country....so lets stop this hypocrisy once and for all

he broke the law, out you go..............next

Yes we do. If we didn't we'd deport all the people who don't get asylum status.

whisky_galore

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Should a conviction follow people for life? especially the minor ones? I'm open to correction but it was a few spliff's yeah? what relevance has that 16 years later if no further offences are committed? Flanagan and Cowen openly admitted to taking illegal substances and still travel to all these countries even if they have no conviction.

Flanagan and Cowen don't have records and aren't looking to stay in these countries and they didn't try to pull a fast one in order to do so.

Cork Trucker

whisky_galore wrote: »

Flanagan and Cowen don't have records and aren't looking to stay in these countries and they didn't try to pull a fast one in order to do so.

I accept that, but it shows what hypocrites we have running the country. If the legislation was updated like all other EU countries he wouldn't have been pulling a fast one, how did he get a social security number without being a permanent resident? Was it his marriage?

whisky_galore

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I accept that, but it shows what hypocrites we have running the country. If the legislation was updated like all other EU countries he wouldn't have been pulling a fast one, how did he get a social security number without being a permanent resident? Was it his marriage?

If my uncle hadnt balls he'd be my aunt.

He chanced it and lost, painted himself into a corner. Make an exception for him and you'd have to make one for everyone with a sob story.

Cork Trucker

whisky_galore wrote: »

If my uncle hadnt balls he'd be my aunt.

He chanced it and lost, painted himself into a corner. Make an exception for him and you'd have to make one for everyone with a sob story.

Of course he lost it and he'll be sent back here otherwise the floodgates will open, no issue there. Do you not think that going forward that this country needs to have legislation for a proper spent convictions system and not the current mess we have in place that is heavily restrictive? That is my point here, or are you against second chances? it's not like we are talking about yer one up the country with her 648 convictions at 44 years old and spent 27 of those holed up in a prison.

Stheno

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Of course he lost it and he'll be sent back here otherwise the floodgates will open, no issue there. Do you not think that going forward that this country needs to have legislation for a proper spent convictions system and not the current mess we have in place that is heavily restrictive? That is my point here, or are you against second chances? it's not like we are talking about yer one up the country with her 648 convictions at 44 years old and spent 27 of those holed up in a prison.

The current system allows for motoring and minor public order offences and convictions with less than a twelve month sentence to be spent after seven years no?

That doesn't seem unreasonable. How would you change it?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/spent_convictions.html

notobtuse

He’s being held in a correctional facility just 15 minutes up the road from me. It’s not that bad a facility but being in corrections sucks no matter how you look at it. They do maintain a zero tolerance policy regarding sexual harassment, assault or abuse (a lot of prisoners there get out on work release and any violation removes them from it, and the prisoners do enjoy work release as it also provides them several hours a day free time on the outside to do personal things. I have hired several work release people as I believe in second chances). His wife says "He's being treated as a criminal and he's not…” Unfortunately, yes he is a criminal for overstaying his visa now for 10 years. If he gets himself a good Philadelphia lawyer he can probably beat our system and remain. He may never gain US citizenship but he might be allowed to stay.

Calhoun

Something fishy about it, if he had the right connections and could have gotten over through other means why did he go the way he did?

As for second chances, we give enough of them in Ireland. Hard cases don't make good law and i'd rather not have something like this be driven because some gob****e wants to lie to the US government.

jam_mac_jam

Cork Trucker wrote: »

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I don't see why, countries don't want people who have convictions in their country. They have a right to be picky, very sad for the people involved but fair from the countries point of view. I think we would feel the same.

Should a conviction follow people for life? especially the minor ones? I'm open to correction but it was a few spliff's yeah? what relevance has that 16 years later if no further offences are committed? Flanagan and Cowen openly admitted to taking illegal substances and still travel to all these countries even if they have no conviction.

Stephen15 wrote: »

100% he should be deported he broke the law in America and he should be made pay for that doesn't matter if he has children or not he still broke the law. All the people who call me a racist for wanting to deport illegal immigrants in Ireland even though I think lrish people should be deported too.

The laws of the land in any country must apply, this case is no different, my argument is about the convictions not being spent/erased, if they were we wouldn't be having the discussion or it wouldn't have hit the news most likely.

Travelling to those countries is not what we are talking about though? We are talking about emigration and obviously you are going to select those without convictions. I think that's fair enough. High demand they are going to select those without criminal convictions.

I don't care if it was one spliff or ten million I think it's a fair rule. There are a lot of people who want to get in.

I don't know if it makes any difference how long it is. The question on the visa form asks if you have ever been arrested so if you have you are lying whatever country you are from if you say no.

Cork Trucker

Stheno wrote: »

The current system allows for motoring and minor public order offences and convictions with less than a twelve month sentence to be spent after seven years no?

That doesn't seem unreasonable. How would you change it?

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/spent_convictions.html

All minor offences that carry 12 months in prison or less should be wiped after 7-10 years, also the adult caution scheme needs to be extended. Personal possession would be a good candidate for the ACS.

Stheno

Cork Trucker wrote: »

All minor offences that carry 12 months in prison or less should be wiped after 7-10 years, also the adult caution scheme needs to be extended. Personal possession would be a good candidate for the ACS.

What minor offences are not covered under the rules I listed?

Cork Trucker

Calhoun wrote: »

Something fishy about it, if he had the right connections and could have gotten over through other means why did he go the way he did?

As for second chances, we give enough of them in Ireland. Hard cases don't make good law and i'd rather not have something like this be driven because some gob****e wants to lie to the US government.

They reckon someone with a grudge snitched on him and it came to this.

Cork Trucker

Stheno wrote: »

What minor offences are not covered under the rules I listed?

I'll go back over it after me dinner and let you know.

Stheno

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I'll go back over it after me dinner and let you know.

The 12 month offence only applies to one offence in fairness

Cork Trucker

Stheno wrote: »

The 12 month offence only applies to one offence in fairness

I had a recent vetting disclosure done and i just looked at it. I was convicted of Section 2 ( common) assault under the non fatal offences against the person act 1997, there are 2 convictions for the same offence recorded on the same date in May 1998, 4 months after i turned 18, i was out on the lash and got heavily drunk/into a fight with 2 people, both matters were dealt with simultaneously by the courts i was convicted on one, the other taken into consideration, this is where i was caught in the legislation as it is classed as more than 1 conviction from the same incident. I've carried that cross for the last 21 years and been rejected by both the U.S and Oz in 2008 as a result, the spent convictions legislation does not apply to my case.

Stheno

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I had a recent vetting disclosure done and i just looked at it. I was convicted of Section 2 ( common) assault under the non fatal offences against the person act 1997, there are 2 convictions for the same offence recorded on the same date in May 1998, 4 months after i turned 18, i was out on the lash and got heavily drunk/into a fight with 2 people, both matters were dealt with simultaneously by the courts i was convicted on one, the other taken into consideration, this is where i was caught in the legislation as it is classed as more than 1 conviction from the same incident. I've carried that cross for the last 21 years and been rejected by both the U.S and Oz in 2008 as a result, the spent convictions legislation does not apply to my case.

So you think multiple assault convictions sho .uk of be allowed to be spent?

I don't tbh. And the legislation calls out you still have to disclose to the US

Cork Trucker

Stheno wrote: »

So you think multiple assault convictions sho .uk of be allowed to be spent?

I don't tbh. And the legislation calls out you still have to disclose to the US

After 7-10 years if no further offending has occurred and rehabilitation is obvious then yes.

I declared it hence the rejection, i've no issue with it now as i'm here for the rest of my days. but for the generations ahead it would be a good move.

Stheno

Cork Trucker wrote: »

After 7-10 years if no further offending has occurred and rehabilitation is obvious then yes.

I declared it hence the rejection, i've no issue with it now as i'm here for the rest of my days. but for the generations ahead it would be a good move.

So where do you stop? What if someone is convicted of five was assaults over five years, do they become spent seven years after the last one?

whisky_galore

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Of course he lost it and he'll be sent back here otherwise the floodgates will open, no issue there. Do you not think that going forward that this country needs to have legislation for a proper spent convictions system and not the current mess we have in place that is heavily restrictive? That is my point here, or are you against second chances? it's not like we are talking about yer one up the country with her 648 convictions at 44 years old and spent 27 of those holed up in a prison.

Unless someone campaigned for change and got things rolling. Frankly it doesn't affect me so I'm not really bothered. Maybe you could.

weldoninhio

Cork Trucker wrote: »

If Ireland had the same spent convictions legislation that most of Europe have, such as the departing UK since 1974 the convictions would probably have been expunged and the issue resolved.

Are you someone who believes a conviction should remain in place until a person goes to the grave/crematorium and beyond?

AFAIK even convictions that have been expunged have to be declared when travelling to the US.

Cork Trucker

Stheno wrote: »

So where do you stop? What if someone is convicted of five was a ui it's over five years, do they become spent seven years after the last one?

You know the old saying, 3 strikes and you're out kinda thing.

7 years from the last one indeed.

Just to give you an example, i work in a nightclub on the weekends on top of my own job, i had to go through the process to obtain a licence in that area which included vetting, the relevant body is aware of my history and still granted me a licence as it some people do more stupid acts than others in life especially younger ones like myself and Keith Byrne, does it really mean that it must be used as a beating stick until a persons dying day?People do change, i'm unsure if it is better to start a separate thread on this particular matter even though it is relevant in a way.

Something like the below should be mirrored in spent convictions legislation

https://www.psa.gov.ie/en/PSA/Fit%20&%20Proper%20Guidelines%20(Approved%20March%202012).pdf/Files/Fit%20&%20Proper%20Guidelines%20(Approved%20March%202012).pdf

Cork Trucker

whisky_galore wrote: »

Unless someone campaigned for change and got things rolling. Frankly it doesn't affect me so I'm not really bothered. Maybe you could.

I gave up to be honest, plus i'm approaching 40 with a large family who are all well and truly settled so i wouldn't dream of uprooting them but for the future generations i would be in favour of change.

Cork Trucker

weldoninhio wrote: »

AFAIK even convictions that have been expunged have to be declared when travelling to the US.

The expunged bit i'm unaware of TBH, i did declare them and was told i was being declined, the wife was sorted alright though, i was 28 at the time of rejection and not much older than Mr Byrne, i think he's 2 years younger than me.